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Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? - Career (4) - Nairaland

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Difference Between B Tech And B Sc Accounting / That Act Of Discrimination By Virgin Atlantic Airways / HND Holders Have More Opportunities Than A B.sc 2.2. See Why.. (2) (3) (4)

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Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 4:46pm On Jul 20, 2006
let try
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 5:31pm On Jul 20, 2006
Please o, you people shld try for us. We are putting hope on you and other good-to-go HND graduates like you. It will surely come to pass, amen.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 12:18pm On Jul 21, 2006
All HND holders should submit to reality on the ground, then we will fight with one voice. Identify yourself with HND.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 12:28pm On Jul 21, 2006
I have already submitted myself already. I dont know of other HND holders. But they better do oo becos it is for the good of all of us.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 12:36pm On Jul 21, 2006
What of if we beg Seun to assist us by creating  a single thread for all HND talks, or permit us to collect HND names using Nairaland. Still we could be Nairaland HND Agenda Group. What do you think.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 1:50pm On Jul 21, 2006
Yes o, it will be better. But Seun does not have HND and he has never spoken in favour of HND holders and polytechnics before. I wonder if it will work sha.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 2:08pm On Jul 21, 2006
We  are appealing to SEUN to please speak on this issue. Nairaland is great now we can reach out to all the powerful guys there.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 4:04pm On Jul 21, 2006
Well, lets see what help will come from SEUN. The guy may be willing to help us.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by HH(m): 3:53pm On Jul 26, 2006
Guys i like 2 say that no matter what and where u study, weather B.sc or HND, it is your creativity that takes you out of poverty line. Beside, the government has contributed much to the dentriment and inferior complex of HND Holders. Would you agree with me that some of the bank MS's that set policies against HND graduate actually had HND? it is not the institution but the individual. Good, the curriculum is different and they were meant to serve different purposes, but the descrimination has gone beyound that.
I do not need you to tell me that some B.sc students with even 2.1 cannot write formal letterbut they came out as engineers.
I met a P.HD holder who told me that the solution of Nigeria is to develop polytechnic institution.
It is quite unfortunate the descrimination has gone this far but i really do think if the government continues to treat HND this way, the institution should be ABANDONED
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 5:27pm On Jul 26, 2006
HH, you are right oo, but abolishing polytechnic education in nigeria may not solve the technological problems on ground. Let government sit down and think very well on nigeria educational policies especially as it affects polytechnics. what baffles me most is that poly graduates have done well and better in some areas than some uni graduates upon all the discriminations placed on them. Just as you said, it all depends on the individual and not the HND or Bsc, or the school you attended that matters; people should be allowed to prove themselves rather than occupying positions by virtue of a Bsc or HND.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by uncleb(m): 3:25pm On Jul 27, 2006
what actually do we want - nomenclature or ability? this is one of the reasons why we still remain where we are today in this nation. Many things have gone wrong and pple are just seeking unnecessary excuses to justify themselves. I am not ashame to sat that am a HND holder, most of those that make noise about BSC what are their skills, go and see what they deliver , very poor. I am not saying that all poly grad are better than their uni counterparts, but it lacks moral justification to subject a person/ group of persons to undeserved stigmatisation.

One thing i do say and which i will continue to say is that i can withstand and compete favourably with any Bsc holder in my field. Anybody can try me for that, before i even acquired HND, i happened to experience some of the so called degree holder as an IT student when i just obtained ND, and i can tell a lot.

For me what i will be is not determined by my paper qualifications, but enough of all these careless and annoying utterances.

IT IS NOT WHAT YOU HAVE BUT WHAT YOU DO( or what u can do) WITH WHAT U HAVE THAT MATTERS MOST.

I am available for any criticism from any quarter at any time: unclebee07@yahoo.com
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 6:16pm On Jul 27, 2006
My brother i like wat u just said, lets continue to pray to God for all these nonsense to stop in nigeria; where a man that has little skills or knowledge is put on top of skillful people becos he has a 4-years BSc forgeting that HND holders spent the same 4 years in school too plus 1year compulsory IT in btw making it 5 years. Let God intervene Pls.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by uncleb(m): 8:49am On Jul 28, 2006
I think DOMINOBABY OR WHATS HER NAME SHOULD WATCH HER TONGUE COS THIS ISSEU IS OF PARAMOUNT INTEREST TO SOME OF US AND WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY CARELESS OR UNSCRUPULUS UTTERANCES 4RM ANY QUARTER.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 6:47am On Jul 30, 2006
uncleb:

I think DOMINOBABY OR WHATS HER NAME SHOULD WATCH HER TONGUE COS THIS ISSUE IS OF PARAMOUNT INTEREST TO SOME OF US AND WE WILL NOT TOLERATE ANY CARELESS OR UNSCRUPULOUS UTTERANCES 4RM ANY QUARTER.


We need to let her know that her papers must be fake or she is not facing reality. Somebody must have assisted her to pass jamb or Her bottom power. We HND holders are very serious now.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Nobody: 3:53pm On Jul 30, 2006
ishmael:

My brother i like what u just said, lets continue to pray to God for all these nonsense to stop in Nigeria; where a man that has little skills or knowledge is put on top of skillful people because he has a 4-years BSc forgeting that HND holders spent the same 4 years in school too plus 1year compulsory IT in between making it 5 years. Let God intervene Please.
well the basic gist every hnd holder keeps saying is that they do all the work while the university folks do all the note copying!
u have Ur rights to say Wat u want to say. but i consider my self to be a product of both systems. after completion of my ond i wrote jamb and went to university then i noticed the difference.
the curriculum of both institutions are different sothere is no need to compare. for instance lets take engineering- in polytechnics u r taught the job to fix repair maintain etc, u r grounded on physical aspect of the job no doubt u r good but in university Ur not taught these things, you basically taught on design processes and the ability to design. from the university curriculum u can ask any body in it they would tell u the cadre of engineering in the society from engineer-technologist-technician-craftman-artisan.
now u tell me where do u think the discrimination would end? it wont cos polytechnics are there to produce the technologist and the technician.
did i hear u say it is a lie well don't believe it if u wont - i could give u another illustration. i took my car to the mechanic and the guy gave me his card calling himself an engineer- Wat a laugh. he can fix it no doubt but he cant design it. design is an act of creation and we both know that is not in polytechnic curriculum
so Mr hnd holder i hear u say most university graduates cant do this or that do u want to tell me all polytechnic graduates are better?
infact the basic training a university gives u is to train Ur mind, polytechnics don't do that and thats why when u see a poly and a uni graduate on first look u would notice the difference, and i wonder why the poly guys always believe they r inferior.
during my ond days, most of my lecturers were master's degree holders with the HOD a Dr. go to a university most of the lecturers are docs with some professor, u can see the disparity in tutors?i would prefer a prof to lecture me any day in comparison to a masters degree holder i don't know about u.
on a final note i would like u to note that Ur future is in God's hands and not Ur qualification. but if u continue to wish that the discrimination would end am sorry to say that it wont end until the curriculum is changed but no body will change that cos inthe society we sure need some technologist and technicians. just like saying an NCE holder is a better teacher to B.Ed holder or if u think u guys are that smart and Ur taking it this personal then u can ask themto raise Ur min requirements to 7credits
undecided
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 9:39am On Jul 31, 2006
Mr kaecy5. You had OND not HND so you knew nothing at that time, just like 200 student. Please keepshut.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by cosmorpel(m): 1:49pm On Jul 31, 2006
Thanx guyz,
i ve read somuch on wat u pple are up to concerning 2 this issue, hence i will exitate 2 answer (@IAH, and @KODEWRITA).
U see to evry his own pride.I'm here 2 tell u guyz dat i'm an HND holder presently and vry prude of it.Many graduate of university(90%) at least are not better off. When u talk of entry qualfction, there many that bougth their SSCE n d JAMB result,so i didn't see qualfction as d matter.
Is my bleve 2 grow higher not 2 move around a circle.Yes it wil take me PGD 2 get my MSC when others are goin striagh.To me i know my wot despite d labor market discrmntion. Unless u are MSC holder if not as a bsc i'm vry sure acedemically n practically no diff b/w us.
So we shud better talk on how 2 equate them because if u are not directly involved ur brother is among us.
Thanks house.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 1:59pm On Jul 31, 2006
OND may be Equal to NCE. Nce req. 3 credit s straight. OND required 4 credits. Bsc req 5 Credits. But HND is Post ND. i.e. 4credits+ ND + Years of work Exp. = HND
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 2:12pm On Jul 31, 2006
You must obtain another form before you can be admited for HND


[b]From Why FG removes ceiling on HND graduates

http://www.tribune.com.ng/22052006/news/news6.html

THE removal of the ceiling placed on career progression of Higher National Diploma (HND) holders is a clear indication that the Obasanjo administration takes technical education with seriousness, Executive Secretary of the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE), Engineer (Dr.) Nuru Yakubu, has said.

Before, HND holders could not exceed Level 14 in the civil service, but President Olusegun Obasanjo issued a presidential directive on January 5 that the ceiling placed on their career progression be removed.


According to Dr. Yakubu, this would give those with HND certificates the chance to compete with degree holders even at the labour market where the disparity had been posing a great threat to them. He commended the Federal Government for the removal of the ceiling, adding that Nigeria was the only country where HND holders were discriminated upon.


Chairman of the 17-member committee, Engineer Ahmed Rufai, had earlier blamed successive governments who failed to underscore the relevance of monotechnic/polytechnic systems through appropriate recognition of their status.

“Even when the mandate of polytechnics were reviewed to include offering HND and curricula upgraded, government failed to make commensurate review of relevant statues, policies and laws to reflect the new reality and opportunities for HND holders”, he said.


He suggested that HND should be termed high level manpower while ND should remain the certificate of middle level manpower, and urged that admission requirements and entrance examination into polytechnics and universities should be harmonised.
[/b]
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 7:28pm On Jul 31, 2006
Kaecy5, who told you polytechnic engineering students/graduates dont design? Who design for them during their projects? Who design the articles, items and machines they produce in the workshop? Is it university students/graduates that come to design for them? My friend stop being naive. A Technologist can design although to some extent, there is a limit. The truth is that some Technologist even design better than some engineers though the designing job is meant for the engineers. And secondly you did not do HND, u only did ND in engineering which only prepared you to be a middle-level Technician, so i doubt if you know anything about engineering technology. And who told you polytechnic graduates feel inferior? Well myself and other HND holders in the house are so proud to tell the world that we are products of Nigerian polytechnics and we can do better than some of you with Bsc. Point of correction again, Entry qualification into polytechnics is the samething as that of the university, they only waive english for science/technology and engineering courses by accepting a pass in o level english; but some schools like yabatech insist on 5 o level credits including english for all its courses. For business and mgt courses you must have credits in both maths and english. My friend's younger brother (Names withheld) had a pass in maths and he was to do business admin in the polytechnic, although he passed polyJAMB and was given ND1 direct, he was not registered for having a pass in maths; he had to start from pre-ND. But lucky for him his UME admission came out and he was given the same course (Bsc bus admin), this time around mathematics was waived and he was registered in the department of Business Admin in the university with a pass in o level mathematics. As i am talking now hes a graduate of one of the 1st generation universities in nigeria.So Dont talk about admission requirements again.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by cosmorpel(m): 2:20am On Aug 01, 2006
I thanks u pple 4 ur contribution 2ward dis issue. The truth is dat evry body knows his capability.If u think is entrance qualifction is d course of some banks wanting BSC, its funny because is not only pple in that sector that is making it in life.
I'M HERE TO SAY I'M VRY PROUD TO BE AN HND HOLDER AND THE TOP IS MY POSITION.
Pls use this medium 2 greet (@ hnd holder, & @ ishmael) for writin 2 encourage those HNDs who doesn't appreciate what they have, feelin unqual.
Thanx house
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 8:18am On Aug 01, 2006
With my HND I was a Committee member of COREN at younger age, I have moved round the world. I have houses , cars and Chains of Degrees  both professional and academic. Married with children to most loving wife. Any HND holder ever  feels discriminated against do no know the salt.

Today POPE is in ROME for catholics, OYEDEPO is here in NIGERIA for WINNERS ride on
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 9:45am On Aug 01, 2006
Yes o, we are winners. Pls help me tell Kaecy5 that Doctors and professors are not the most brilliant and intelligent people in the world. What break- thru have they made as professors? Bill Gates is not a professsor but has done well for the world, even professors bow for him. Dont use qualification to measure output, else you will be misled.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 10:02am On Aug 01, 2006
I thank GOD that I attended Polytechnic Yes o If you ask me why I shall tell you.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by HH(m): 8:41am On Aug 03, 2006
I am glad that we have a lot od HND graduates that believes in themselves. I wish we have a body to emphasize and re-emphasize it again and again. The truth is that even the uni graduates know they are not better than the poly graduate if only the policies formulated has not given them edge.A couple of my friends had B.sc but they cannot tell me "shit" cos they know my value.
It would interest Kasey5or whatever to know that a senior lecturer in the university that supervised my postgraduate course told me that the solution to Nigerias economy is to improve the polytechnic eductaion. It is people like you that formulates bad policies and yet achieve nothing in business.
Do know that whatever comment you make here affects other people psychologically and thats not the purpose of this forum so please stay away from descriminative comments. if you were good why aint you working in Cheveron yet cos even some HND graduates are already there even as senior managers. so i wonder what you are waiting for.
Fellow guys, keep on your good faith, do not ingnore avenue to keep improving your self technmologically and academically with prayers and thanksgiving, it would be well.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 9:24am On Aug 03, 2006
At Ibadan
in the monthly meeting of Nigerian society of engineers NSE Ibadan Branch.
Former national Vice President Engr Ajibola told them  on Monday the 31st of July 2006 at studio 3 of NTA Ibadan that    "You must be their and you must say something to fight for your right. Nobody will do that for you.  Because the vacancies are just not there".

Lazy HND holders were scare away.  It is the OND that is middle level not HND. we carry out  the samething  HND holders come out to fight for your right. HH thank you, tell all that obtained HND to come out.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 9:39am On Aug 03, 2006
The mandate of polytechnic formerly was to produce OND this was review to include HND later NND. This lead to student riot , the middle level thing was only for OND. later ND

“Even when the mandate of polytechnics were reviewed to include offering HND and curricula upgraded, government failed to make commensurate review of relevant statues, policies and laws to reflect the new reality and opportunities for HND holders”---------------------- Engineer Ahmed Rufai (2006)

Engineer Ahmed Rufai was the Chairman of the 17-member committee,  that  perfect the papers to NBTE which by now should be turning to Policy. Government has done their own o  even if we blame successive governments who failed to underscore the relevance of monotechnic/polytechnic systems through appropriate recognition of their status.  We should also blame HND HOLDERS who ran for cover at the expense of the HND. They do not want to associate with us as they enjoy covering their faces whenever HND is mentioned.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 2:55pm On Aug 03, 2006
HH, you're too much. I,m also a proud polytechnic graduate. I wish other guys with HND will feel and behave the same way most of us here feel and behave. Inferiority complex only affects those who really are inferior and not HND-holders. Infact i was diagnosed and told to be suffering from Superiority complex, which i believe every one of us(competent poly graduate) in this forum has. We shall and will always come out to defend the skills and profeciency of our HND certificates and also prove to everyone that the nigerian HND is superb and not the same as the 2 years Uk HND. In this same forum under computer programming section, someone was saying that polytechnics dont do much maths and logic in computer science; i had to list all the maths courses that must be offered from ND to HND computer science for the guy to see for himself. He was surprised to see the listed maths courses in our HND computer science curriculum. The next thing he said was that how many polytechnics offer those maths courses in computer science in Nigeria? The answer i gave to him was all polytechnics in nigeria as far as NBTE is concerned. He then said that probably poly dont go deep into those maths courses, that in Uk they dont do some of the maths courses i listed for him in HND computer science and computing. They must always look for something to use in discrediting HND, but i tell you it wont work. Pls those of us with Nigerian HND especially in the fields of science, engineering and technology shld always try and defend as well as prove it to those who care to know that polytechnics in nigeria are centers for high-level technological training where a certificate in Technology called HND can be obtained.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by Hndholder(m): 3:09pm On Aug 03, 2006
I was suffering from Superiority without complex. because Iam an HND holder
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 4:28pm On Aug 03, 2006
Bros i can feel you very well. Superiority is the main thing oo. I always feel i know better than my colleagues who read the same course with me from the university.
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by kitaun(m): 3:47pm On Aug 05, 2006
Am a B.Sc holder but for the life of me i don't see why anyone should want to place the Hnd holder lower than the B.Sc holder, i have gone through all the arguments and i still stand my ground to say its not about what you have read in school but about how you can practicalize those things, the sad thing is that our country only appreciate paper certificates whereas we don't lay emphasis on practicals, how do we hope to live up to our potentials as a great country ? that is why you will see that discrimination might never cease in this land, i have my OND from Yabatech so i can compare and contrast btw Polys and Unis, but for God sake my heart is with Hnd holders all the way, never give up until your good becomes better and your better best in all your endeavor
I salute the courage of the people on this forum who have stood up for the cause of the Hnd holders, even if you are not one,youy will sure have a relative or friend that is one,

God Bless Us All
Re: Why This Discrimination Between B.Sc & HND? by ishmael(m): 7:51am On Aug 07, 2006
Kitaun, u,re correct oo, its not about what u read in school or the qualification u hold but how well u can make use of the skills u acquired in school. You can imagine where we are in the 21st century in nigeria. Technical/Technological education should be given attention or else it will be hard 4 nigeria to catch up with countries like southAfrica. Polytechnic graduates are the type of graduates nigeria needs at the moment for technological growth. Kitaun pls help us pass the message across.

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