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Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 12:40pm On Jul 24, 2013
WOMEN, JEWELS OF ISLAM


Women's Rights in Islam

The issue of women in Islam, is topic of great misunderstanding and distortion due partly to a lack of understanding, but also partly due to misbehavior of some Muslims which has been taken to represent the teachings of Islam. We speak here about what Islam teaches, and that is that standard according to which Muslims are to be judged. As such, my basis and source is the Quran--the words of Allah, and the sayings of the Prophet, his deeds and his confirmation. Islamic laws are derived from these sources. To facilitate our discussion we can discuss the position of women from a spiritual, economic, social, and political standpoint.

From the spiritual aspect, there are seven points to remember:

According to the Quran, men and women have the same spirit, there is no superiority in the spiritual sense between men and women. [Noble Quran 4:1, 7:189, 42:11]

The Quran makes it clear that all human beings (and the phraseology doesn't apply to men or women alone, but to both) have what you might call a human; He

"breathed some of My spirit into divine touch. When God created him"(or her in this sense). [Noble Quran 15:29 See also 32:9]

Some of His spirit here means not in the incarnational sense, but the pure, innate spiritual nature that God has endowed her or him with.

The Quran indicates again that one of the most honored positions of human, is that God created the human, and as I referred to Surah 17 earlier, it means both sexes, as His trustee and representative on earth. There are many references in the Quran that reaffirm this.

Nowhere in the Quran do we find any trace of any notion of blaming Eve for the first mistake or for eating from the forbidden tree. Nowhere, even though the Quran speaks about Adam, Eve, and the forbidden tree, but in a totally different spirit. The story is narrated in 7:19-27, and it speaks about both of them doing this, both of them are told that both of them disobeyed, both of them discovered the consequences of their disobedience, both of them seek repentance and both of them are forgiven. Nowhere in the Quran does it say woman is to be blamed for the fall of man. Furthermore, when the Quran speaks about the suffering of women during the period of pregnancy and childbirth, nowhere does it connect it with the concept of original sin, because there is no concept of original sin in Islam. The suffering is presented not as a reason to remind woman of the fall of man, but as a reason to adore and love woman or the mother. In the Quran, especially 31:14, 46:15, it makes it quite clear God has commanded upon mankind to be kind to parents and mentions,

"His mother bore him in difficulty or suffering upon suffering." [Noble Quran 31:14, 46:15]

The Quran makes it clear again to remove any notion of superiority and I refer you again to 49:13. I must caution you that there are some mistaken translations, but if you go to the original Arabic, there is no question of gender being involved.

In terms of moral, spiritual duties, acts of worship, the requirements of men and women are the same, except in some cases when women have certain concessions because of their feminine nature, or their health or the health of their babies.

The Quran explicitly, in more than one verse, 3:195, 4:124, specified that whoever does good deeds, and is a believer and then specifies "male or female" God will give them an abundant reward.

In the area of economic rights, we have to remember that in Europe until the 19th century, women did not have the right to own their own property. When they were married, either it would transfer to the husband or she would not be able to dispense of it without permission of her husband. In Britain, perhaps the first country to give women some property rights, laws were passed in the 1860's known as "Married Women Property Act." More than 1300 years earlier, that right was clearly established in Islamic law.

"Whatever men earn, they have a share of that and whatever women earn, they have a share in that." [Noble Quran 4:32]

Secondly, there is no restriction in Islamic law that says a woman cannot work or have a profession, that her only place is in the home. In fact, by definition, in a truly Islamic society, there must be women physicians, women nurses, women teachers, because it's preferable also to separate teenagers in the volatile years in high school education. And if she chooses to work, or if she's married with the consent of her husband, she's entitled to equal pay, not for equal work, but for work of equal worth.

Thirdly, when it comes to financial security, Islamic law is more tilted in many respects towards women. These are seven examples:

During the period of engagement, a woman is to be on the receiving side of gifts.

At the time of marriage, it is the duty of the husband, not the bride's family. He is supposed to pay for a marital gift. The Quran called it a gift, and it is exclusively the right of the woman. She doesn't have to spend it on the household, she doesn't have to give it to her father or anyone else.

If the woman happened to own any property prior to marriage, she retains that property after marriage. It remains under her control. Also, in most Muslim countries, the woman keeps her own last name, and her own identity.

If the woman has any earnings during her marital life, by way of investments of her property or as a result of work, she doesn't have to spend one penny of that income on the household, it is entirely hers.

The full maintenance and support of a married woman is the entire responsibility of her husband, even though she might be richer than he is. She doesn't have to spend a penny.

At the time of divorce, there are certain guarantees during the waiting period and even beyond for a woman's support.

If the widow or divorcee has children, she's entitled to child support.

In return for these listed securities, it is clear why the Islamic laws pertaining to inheritance give men a higher share. From the social standpoint, as a daughter we find that credit goes to Islam for stopping the barbaric practice of pre-Islamic Arabs of female infanticide. These ignorant people used to bury female daughters alive. The Quran forbade the practice, making it a crime. Surah 81 Additionally, the Quran condemned the chauvinistic attitudes of some people who used to greet the birth of a boy with gladness, but sadness in the case of a girl.

The duty, not the right, the duty of education, as the Prophet said, is a duty on every Muslim, male and female.

As far as treatment of daughters is concerned, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Anyone who has two daughters, and did not bury them, did not insult them and brought them up properly, he and I will be like this," holding his two fingers close together. Another version adds, "And also did not favor his sons over daughters." One time the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) was seated. A companion was sitting with him. The companion's son came. He kissed his son and put him on his lap. Then his daughter came, and he just sat her by his side. The Prophet told the man, "You did not do Justice," meaning he should have treated the daughter equally, kissed her and put her in his lap also. Indeed, whenever the Prophet's daughter Fatimah came to him, in front of everyone, he stood up, kissed her and let her sit in his favorite place where he'd been sitting.

From the marital standpoint, the Quran clearly indicates in Surahs 30:20 and 42:11 that marriage is not just an inevitable evil, marriage is not somebody getting married to his master or slave, but rather to his partner.

"Among His Signs is this, that he created for you mates from among yourselves, that they may dwell in tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect." [Noble Quran 30:21]

There are numerous verses in the Quran to the same effect.

Secondly, the approval and consent of the girl to marriage is a prerequisite for the validity of marriage in Islam. She has the right to say yes or no.

Husbands' and wives' duties are mutual responsibilities. They might not be identical duties, but the totality of rights and responsibilities are balanced. The Quran says:

"Women have the same rights (in relation to their husbands) as are expected in all decency from them, while men stand a step above them." [Noble Quran 2:228]

This only specifies the degree of responsibility, not privilege, in man's role as provider, protector, maintainer, and leader of the family. The same Surah speaks about divorce, about consultation between husband and wife, even in the case of divorce. When there are family disputes, first the Quran appeals to reason and the consideration of positive aspects of one's spouse,

"Dwell with your wives in kindness for even if you hate them, you might be hating someone in whom God has placed so much good." [Noble Quran 4:19]

If that appeal does not succeed, and problems between the husband and wife continue, there are measures that can be applied. Some of these measures are done privately between husband and wife. Some of them might appear harsh, but there are qualifications to restrict excessive or abusive use of these measures. These measures are considered an attempt to save a marriage rather than break a family apart. If the situation does not improve, even with the limitation and prevention of excesses, the next step is a family council. One arbiter from his family and one from her family should sit together with the couple and try to resolve the problems.

If a divorce becomes necessary, there are many detailed procedures in Islamic law that really knock down the common notion that divorce in Islam is very easy and that it is the sole right of man. It is not the sole right of man alone and neither is it true that all you have to say is: "I divorce you three times," and that's it. Islam also has laws regarding custody of children. I was very surprised to see newspapers making the false claim that in all cases custody goes to the father. Custody involves the interest of the child, and laws often favor the mother of young children.

Polygamy has become so mythical in the minds of many people that they assume being Muslim means having four wives. This is a false notion, of course. A very renowned anthropologist, Edward Westermarck, in his two-volume work, "History of Human Marriage," notes that there has been polygamy in virtually every culture and religion, including Judaism and Christianity. But the point here is not to say, "Why blame Islam?" Actually, Islam is the only religion even among Abrahamic faiths, that specifically limited the practice of polygamy that existed before Islam and established very strict conditions for guidance. The question, "How could any man have two wives? That's terrible!" reflects ethnocentrism. We assume that because we're living in the West and it seems strange, and we assume it must apply to all cultures, all times, under all circumstances. This simply isn't true. Let me give you one current-day example. In the savage attack on Afghanistan, genocide was committed on the Afghani people. It is estimated that 1-1.5 million people lost their lives, a great majority of whom were men of a marriageable age. Now, with a great shortage of men, what will happen to their widows, their orphans and their daughters of marriageable age? Is it better to leave them in a camp, with a handout? Or better a man is willing to take care of his fallen comrade's wife and children?



It is obvious that monogamy is the norm for Muslims. If we assume that having four wives is the norm, then we assume a population of 80% female and 20% male, which is an impossibility on the aggregate level. The only verse in the Quran that speaks about polygamy, speaks about limiting not instituting polygamy. The verse was revealed after the Battle of Uhud in which many Muslims were martyred, leaving behind wives and children in need of support. This verse shows the spirit and reason of the revelation.

The Quran placed obedience to parents immediately after worship of God.

"We commanded mankind to be kind to his parents" [Noble Quran 31:14]

And then speaks of the mother. In a very succinct statement, Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) said, "Paradise is at the feet of mothers." Once a man came to him and asked, "O, Messenger, who among mankind is worthy of my kindness and love?" The Prophet answered, "Your mother." "Who next?" "Your mother." "Who next?" "Your mother." Only after the third time he said, "And your father."

As a sister in faith, in blood, we find the Quran speaks about men and women, that they should cooperate and collaborate in goodness. Surah 9:71 speaks about men and women as supporters and helpers of each other, ordaining the good and forbidding the evil, establishing prayers and doing charity. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) echoed what the Quran said, "I command you to be kind to women." In one of his last commands in his farewell pilgrimage before his death, he kept repeating, "I command you to be kind and considerate to women." In another hadith, he said, "It is only the generous in character who is good to women, and only the evil one who insults them."

On the question of attire, the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet did not say women must adopt a particular dress of a particular country. It only gives basic boundaries, and for a committed Muslim woman, she doesn't follow this simply because her father or husband tells her, but because Allah already stated that as a requirement in the Quran, and was explained through revelation given to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) that this was not to restrict woman, but to provide a virtuous society where sexual attraction is not the main obsession of everyone. This forces everyone to respect the woman for what she is as a human being, as an intellectual and a spiritual being, rather than being diverted to her sexuality.

Finally, a few words about political involvement. The verse quoted earlier, Surah 9:71, which speaks about men and women being supporters and helpers of each other was taken by some jurists to mean that it involves also public life. How could they ordain the good and forbid the evil without women being active in the affairs of their society? According to the Quran, I'm not talking about the practices of Muslims, in Surah 60:12, we read about Muslim women making "bayy'ah" to the Prophet. Bayy'ah as an Islamic term is somewhat analogous, to a degree, to what we would call an election, or oath of allegiance. And that was given in his capacity not only as a Prophet, but as a head of state, as he was already the head of state in Medina.

During the rein of 'Umar, women participated in law making. 'Umar made a proposal of a certain regulation concerning marriage. A woman in the mosque stood up and said, "'Umar, you can't do that." 'Umar did not tell her, "Shut up, you are a woman, you have nothing to do with politics, etc." He asked, "Why?" She made her argument on the basis of Quran. In front of everybody, he stood up and said, "The woman is right and 'Umar is wrong," and he withdrew his proposal. That was the spirit in the early days of Islam.

In the most authentic collection of Hadith, Hadith Bukhari, a section is devoted to the participation of women, not only in public affairs, but in the battlefield, too, and not only as logistical support. Women carried arms, and when there was great danger to the Muslims, they volunteered to participate even in the battlefield.

The problems presented here are not the problems of Islam. They are problems of a lack of commitment, lack of application, or misapplication of Islamic teachings by Muslims themselves. The topics I have tried to cover here represent and exemplify the big gap that exists between the true teachings of Islam as derived from its original sources and its projected image in the West and the way some Muslims behave in the disregard of those noble teachings.

There's no question that the Western media has played an important role in perpetuating these misconceptions. But in fairness, we should not blame the media alone. Western culture, in writings about other religions, in particular Islam, have distorted images. From books, novels, even in the academic circle, and sermons from the pulpit in places of worship, these kinds of prejudices are perpetuated.

There are fair and honorable people in the media who are receptive to correction of inaccuracies, and who present the facts, when the facts become manifest, as we have seen in the coverage of the barbaric and cruel treatment of the Palestinians n the Occupied Territories. What I would suggest to the media is instead of depending on the distorted information about Islam, they should keep in touch with educated Muslims, and remember, the U.S. has between 5 and 6 million Muslims. Only through correct representation and open communication with Muslims in America can the media give a fair analysis of current events, given the background of those conflicts, and provide a great service to society.

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 12:44pm On Jul 24, 2013
source, women in islam
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 1:44pm On Jul 24, 2013
bilms: source, women in islam

Are you saying women and men have equal rights in Islam?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 1:55pm On Jul 24, 2013
exactly...

with different roles
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 3:16pm On Jul 24, 2013
bilms: exactly...

with different roles

Then why is a man allowed to marry 4 wives and a woman isn't in Islam?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 7:29pm On Jul 24, 2013
NL member: ^^^
Better still why are women seen as retar ded evil omens in Islam?

Sahih Bukhari Volume 004, Book 052, Hadith Number 110.
Narated By 'Abdullah bin 'Umar : I heard the Prophet saying. "Evil omen is in three things: The horse, the woman and the house."

Sahih Bukhari Volume 003, Book 048, Hadith Number 826.
Sahih Bukhari Book 48. The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?" The women said, "Yes." He said, "This is because of the deficiency of a woman's mind."

I will like the poster to explain the equality he spoke about. Preferably from the Quran
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by igbeke: 10:27pm On Jul 24, 2013
bilms: exactly...

with different roles
Pls always make a thorough reaearch b4 posting any article here.
u tink every1 is a novice abt dis issues?
In islam,a woman is not worth more than a commodity.
prove me wrong or take me on if u r sure of urself.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by Curlyjay(m): 10:41pm On Jul 24, 2013
igbeke:
Pls always make a thorough reaearch b4 posting any article here.
u tink every1 is a novice abt dis issues?
In islam,a woman is not worth more than a commodity.
prove me wrong or take me on if u r sure of urself.
so much for whatever religion you serve...speaking without knowledge..perhaps, ur holy book taught you to point accusing fingers at others.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 11:22pm On Jul 24, 2013
Curlyjay:
so much for whatever religion you serve...speaking without knowledge..perhaps, ur holy book taught you to point accusing fingers at others.

Why not educate him. The topic is not about his holy book. It's about the status of women under Islam. Please provide information in line with the thread
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by Nobody: 4:37am On Jul 25, 2013
1.Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Whoever works righteousness — whether male or female — while he (or she) is a true believer (of Islamic Monotheism) verily, to him We will give a good life (in this world with respect, contentment and lawful provision), and We shall pay them certainly a reward in proportion to the best of what they used to do (i.e. Paradise in the Hereafter)”

[al-Nahl 16:97]

So we know that women have rights and duties, just as men have rights and duties. There are matters which suit men so Allaah has made them the responsibility of men, just as there are manners which suit women so He has made them the responsibility of women.

2. how would any of u describe your situation when your wive has 3 other husbands,having to carry 3 people's babies, not even sure whose child is whose. and in whose house will she be staying/ attributing her children, all 4?. how would a woman herself describe her own situation ??

3. a woman isnt in any way a commodity, she becomes a commodity when she sells herself to the society:whatever the society dictates. in islam, she is guided by rules, that help her stand up to this. besides, instead of worrying about that, i think one should first worry about societal problems like; plastic surgery, bleaching, prostitution e.tc. prevalent among society-oriented/defined women(and one can see the consequence) , which obviously islam forbids.

4. Allaah has mentioned the wisdom behind specifying the number of two as being that a woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said:

“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…”

[al-Baqarah 2:282 – interpretation of the meaning]

With regard to the phrase, “that if one of them (two women) errs”, Ibn Katheer said: “This means, the two women, if one of them forgets the testimony, then ‘the other can remind her’, i.e., she can remind her about the matter concerning which testimony is being given.” (Tafseer Ibn Katheer, part 1, p. 724)

With regard to the testimony of two women being equivalent to the testimony of one man in some cases, that is because women tend to be more forgetful than men because of their natural cycles of menstruation, pregnancy, giving birth, raising children etc. All these things preoccupy them and make them forgetful. Hence the shar’i evidence indicates that another women should reinforce a woman’s testimony, so that it will be more accurate. But there are matters that pertain only to women in which the testimony of a single woman is sufficient, such as determining how often a child was breastfed, faults that may affect marriage, and so on.

5. The scholars differed concerning these ahaadeeth and how to reconcile them with the ahaadeeth that forbid tatayyur. Some of them interpreted them as they appear to be, and said that this is an exception from the ruling on tatayyur, i.e., that tatayyur is forbidden unless a person has a house which he does not want to live in, or a wife whom he does not want to keep company with, or a horse or servant, all of which he should get rid of by selling them, or by divorcing the wife.

Others said that a house may be regarded as a bad omen when it is too small, or there are bad neighbours who cause trouble; a woman may be regarded as a bad omen when she does not produce children, or she has a sharp tongue, or she behaves in a suspicious manner; a horse may be regarded as a bad omen when it is not used in jihad, or it was said, when it is difficult to handle or it is too expensive; and a servant may be regarded as a bad omen when he has a bad attitude or is not trustworthy or reliable.

Sharh al-Nawawi ‘ala Muslim.

The correct view is that all types of belief in bad omens are condemned, and that no kinds of women, houses or animals can cause harm or bring benefit except by Allaah’s leave. Allaah is the Creator of both good and evil. A person may be tested with a wife who has a bad attitude, or a house in which there is a lot of problems, in which case it is prescribed for him to rid himself of these things, fleeing from the decree of Allaah to the decree of Allaah, and so as to avoid falling into pessimism and belief in bad omens which is forbidden.

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

“Another group said: regarding these three as bad omens only affects those who believe in that. Whoever puts his trust in Allaah and does not believe in omens and superstition, that does not affect him. They said: this is indicated by the hadeeth of Anas, ‘A bad omen only affects the one who believes in it.’ If a person believes in bad omens, Allaah may make that the cause of bad things happening to him, just as He may make trust in Him and making Him alone the focus of one's fear and hope one of the main causes of warding off evil that people may superstitiously expect.

The reason for that is that tiyarah (superstitious belief in omens) implies shirk or associating others with Allaah, fearing others besides Him and not putting one’s trust in Him. The superstitious person attracts evil to himself, so the superstition affects him more, because he did not protect himself with belief in Allaah alone and trust in Allaah. If a person fears something other than Allaah, it gains control over him and he is tormented by it; if he loves something else as well as Allaah, he will be tormented by it; if he puts his hope in something alongside Allaah he will be let down by it. These matters are well known from real life and there is no need to provide further evidence. Everyone inevitably feels superstitious but the strong believer wards off those superstitious feelings by putting his trust in Allaah. Whoever puts his trust in Allaah, He will suffice him and he will have no need of anyone or anything else.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by Nobody: 4:38am On Jul 25, 2013
refrences: islamqa, the commentator.com
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by Nobody: 6:13am On Jul 25, 2013
ibit-abid-qudrt:
1.Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
[al-Nahl 16:97]
So we know that women have rights and duties, just as men have rights and duties. There are matters which suit men so Allaah has made them the responsibility of men, just as there are manners which suit women so He has made them the responsibility of women.

This is very pathetic and laughable considering how diverse and complicated human nature is. Allah after creating human beings, with diverse abilities and qualities, decided to box them into only two seperate groups with rigid gender specific roles.
So what do we do about those women who have 'masculine' natures and men who have 'feminine' natures? Force them to live according to laws their psychology is not suitated with?

2. how would any of u describe your situation when your wive has 3 other husbands,having to carry 3 people's babies, not even sure whose child is whose. and in whose house will she be staying/ attributing her children, all 4?. how would a woman herself describe her own situation ??
DNA test.

4. Allaah has mentioned the wisdom behind specifying the number of two as being that a woman may forget or get confused, so the other woman can remind her, as He said:
“…And get two witnesses out of your own men. And if there are not two men (available), then a man and two women, such as you agree for witnesses, so that if one of them (two women) errs, the other can remind her…”
I guess muslim women are the only ones that forget and get confused. Muslim men must be super geniuses with infallable memories that don't fail them the way women's memories fail them. That is why Allah didn't say anything about muslim men reminding each other in court.

with regard to the testimony of two women being equivalent to the testimony of one man in some cases, that is because women tend to be more forgetful than men because of their natural cycles of menstruation, pregnancy, giving birth, raising children etc. All these things preoccupy them and make them forgetful.
This is a huge lie. Women forget just as men forget and men might even be more forgetful than women if they are preoccupied with more thoughts than the women. Eg making money and attending to needs of family,of parents, bills etc.

But there are matters that pertain only to women in which the testimony of a single woman is sufficient, suchas determining how often a child was breastfed, faults that may affect marriage and so on
What if she forgets or gets confused in this case? Or does her period and pregnancy and childcare stop affecting her memory when she's giving testimony of these things in court?

5.The scholars differed concerning these ahaadeeth and how to reconcile them with the ahaadeeth that forbid tatayyur. Some of them interpreted them as they appear to be,
Others said that a house may be regarded as a bad omen when it is too small, or there are bad neighbours who cause trouble; a woman may be regarded as a bad omen when she does not produce children, or she has a sharp tongue, or she behaves in a suspicious manner;
Sharh al-Nawawi ‘ala Muslim.
The correct view is that all types of belief in bad omens are condemned, and that no kinds of women, houses or animals can cause harm or bring benefit except by Allaah’s leave. Allaah is the Creator of both good and evil.
Muhammed declared that Muslim women are evil omen, I don't know why you won't just face the truth about your religion, you went to paste a quote about scholars opinion on the issue. Muhammed's opinion is greater than scholars opinion in Islam, if he said your mothers and sisters are evil omen then you take it like that and stop looking for how to twist the meaning of the hadith grin

3 Likes

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 1:40pm On Jul 25, 2013
Pls note, if you could not find your answer in the thread about the status of women in Islam, you free to hold unto your ignorance....its a choice. However, if you have any meaningful question, feel free to ask.

Thanks

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 5:02pm On Jul 25, 2013
bilms: Pls note, if you could not find your answer in the thread about the status of women in Islam, you free to hold unto your ignorance....its a choice. However, if you have any meaningful question, feel free to ask.

Thanks

I asked you: Then why is a man allowed to marry 4 wives and a woman isn't in Islam? Or why is a woman testimony isn't as valid as that of a man?

The Quran says in Surah 38:44 - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Is a woman allowed to beat a man as well? Why would a man beat his wife? She is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Here is another incident in the Hadith:

Muslim (4:2127) - Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, "He struck me on the chest which caused me pain."

Why would the prophet hit his wife in the chest?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by Nobody: 4:57am On Jul 26, 2013
Alexis, Muslims do not have any answers to the questionable parts of their religion, that is why they started their hilarious 'operation moving train' to dodge the questions non muslims ask them.

I can assure you that you will not get any meaningful answer from Muslims on the things you want to know.

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 10:45am On Jul 26, 2013
?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 10:56am On Jul 26, 2013
bilms: ?

Can you address the questions I raised?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 1:29pm On Jul 26, 2013
Question 1, why are men allowed to marry 4 wives and women are not allowed to do so.

Thanks to you for asking such an open question.

For the purpose of this question, let me state that, If a woman have more than one husband,may be four and she becomes pregnant, who becomes the father of the child among the four husband? on the contrary, a man can impregnate four women without questions.

How can a woman fulfil her responsibilities to four men? If she is pregnant for A, B have to wait for years to get his own child, so is C and D? Can it work realistically? NO

Note pls: (apply this to since the time of the prophet till date)

On a more formal note, As much as men and women have equal rights in Islam, they have different roles and responsibilities. Just as Nigerians have equal right according to the constitution, but the duty of the president is different from the senate president and the citizens.

There is no any religion except Islam that put a limit on the number of wives a man can have, that is why we have prophets like Solomon in the bible having more than 50 as he wishes. before Islam came to limit number of wives to 4, there was no religion before it that addressed this issue.

Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one' Qur'an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase 'marry only one'. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the religious scriptures like the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.


So, the number of wives have nothing to do with equal rights...Just as a student studying English may spend 4 years and another studying law may spend 6.....is that inequality? a student studying accounting may spend 4 and medicine spends 7. is that inequality?.....NO..... the role of each differ and the number of year is in accordance to their roles and responsibility.


However, even though islam allow men to have at most 4 wives, there are conditions that must be met for such to be valid. The Quran clearly said, if you can't not be just between them, marry only one...
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 2:00pm On Jul 26, 2013
2. Question 2, The Quran says in Surah 38:44 - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Is a woman allowed to beat a man as well? Why would a man beat his wife? She is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.


Answer...

This Aya in the Quran was narating the incident which occured to Prophet Ayub...If you go back to 41,42,43 before the 44 you quoted, you will understand the quotation better.. pls, for the purpose of next time, don't just quote a section which has precedent from the previous chapters..

Back to the question,



Here Allah tells us about His servant and Messenger Ayub (Job) and how He tested him with sickness. These tests afflicted his body, his wealth and his children, until there was no part of his body that was healthy except his heart. Then he had nothing left in this world which he could use to help him deal with his sickness or the predicament he was in, besides his wife, who retained her devotion to him because of her faith in Allah and His Messenger. She used to work for people as a paid servant, and she fed and served him (Ayub) for nearly eighteen years. During this period, she did something to him, probably because of her work with people and Ayub (job), peace be upon him, got angry with his wife and was upset about something she had done when he was ill, so he swore an oath that if Allah healed him, he would strike her with one hundred blows.

When Allah healed him, how could her service, mercy, compassion and kindness be repaid with a beating because she did something? So Allah showed him a way out of his oath, which was to take a bundle of thin grass, with one hundred stems, and hit her with it once. Thus he fulfilled his oath and avoided breaking his vow. This was the solution and way out to avoid breaking his vow.

Allah says:

Truly, We found him patient. How excellent a servant! Verily, he was ever oft-returning in repentance (to Us)!

Ofcourse, what was said was not to hurt her in a way that would affect her, it is like someone you have promised to give 100 blows when you were angry, and when she comes, you just slightly touched her chicks.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 2:20pm On Jul 26, 2013
the struck in the hadiths you quoted doesn't imply beating...It simply follow the same pattern as the above explanation.


this is what the prophet said concerning wives..


Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 3:58pm On Jul 26, 2013
bilms

Question 1, why are men allowed to marry 4 wives and women are not allowed to do so.

Thanks to you for asking such an open question.

And thanks for answering, I wanted a muslim perspective on the subject

For the purpose of this question, let me state that, If a woman have more than one husband,may be four and she becomes pregnant, who becomes the father of the child among the four husband? on the contrary, a man can impregnate four women without questions.

In this day and age, science can easily tell who the father is. The issue here is not identification of the offspring but equality. If a man in Islam has the right to marry several women, it is common sense to give the same right to women. It's almost like saying a man can become a CEO and have all the benefits of been a CEO and a woman can't because of her identity. In this area, Islam isn't fair to the woman.

How can a woman fulfil her responsibilities to four men? If she is pregnant for A, B have to wait for years to get his own child, so is C and D? Can it work realistically? NO

How can a man fulfill his responsibilities to 4 women? How can he marry and love 4 women equally and treat them right in the eyes of God? In a man's life-time, he is able to bare 10,000 children. A woman can bare 12-20 or maybe more? And we all know mothers are more attached to children than fathers. The issue here is polygamy; if it can work for a man, it sure can work for a woman.

Note pls: (apply this to since the time of the prophet till date)

This is a whole another issue and we can discuss it if you have the time.

On a more formal note, As much as men and women have equal rights in Islam, they have different roles and responsibilities. Just as Nigerians have equal right according to the constitution, but the duty of the president is different from the senate president and the citizens.

Roles are different from duties. For example, it is a woman's role to give birth - a man can't. The same way it's a man's seed that can make a woman conceive, a woman can't - THOSE ARE ROLES and not DUTIES. I hope you get the point. An official office is not the same as a role, there is a big difference.

There is no any religion except Islam that put a limit on the number of wives a man can have, that is why we have prophets like Solomon in the bible having more than 50 as he wishes. before Islam came to limit number of wives to 4, there was no religion before it that addressed this issue.

In-correct. Solomon was a king, he did as he pleased. His father did the same. The Bible and Torah records that because of the many foreign wives he (Solomon) married, they turned his heart away from God. God set the precedence on how many wives a man should marry - ONE. Christianity states, you should marry ONE wife. Here is Jesus in:

Matthew 19:4 === “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’[a] 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’[b]? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”

Qur'an is the only religious scripture in the world that says 'marry only one' Qur'an is the only religious book, on the face of this earth, that contains the phrase 'marry only one'. There is no other religious book that instructs men to have only one wife. In none of the religious scriptures like the Vedas, the Ramayan, the Mahabharat, the Geeta or the Bible does one find a restriction on the number of wives. According to these scriptures one can marry as many as one wishes. It was only later, that the Hindu priests and the Christian Church restricted the number of wives to one.

You are WRONG again, the Quran is not the only religious scripture that says "marry only one" - THAT IS INCORRECT AND NOT TRUE. If you are referring to the specific text as "marry only one", then it is not in the Bible. However, the TEACHING of marriage to only one woman is an instruction from God and a teaching in the New Testament and from Jesus the Christ, it's not from any priest smiley

Ephesians 5:31 === For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

So, the number of wives have nothing to do with equal rights...Just as a student studying English may spend 4 years and another studying law may spend 6.....is that inequality? a student studying accounting may spend 4 and medicine spends 7. is that inequality?.....NO..... the role of each differ and the number of year is in accordance to their roles and responsibility.

Yes it does. There is no way in this world you can treat 4 women equally. You can't give =N=100,000 to one wife and then =N=500,0000 to the other and expect there to be peace. Your example doesn't do the subject any justice. If you had said both law students undertook law, one finished in 6 years and another finished in 8 years because his lecturer failed him, would have been a true example. Here is your Quran on the subject:

Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women, even if it is your ardent desire". Your Quran says it is impossible to be fair amongst women.

However, even though islam allow men to have at most 4 wives, there are conditions that must be met for such to be valid. The Quran clearly said, if you can't not be just between them, marry only one

Again, here is your Quran - Quran (4:129) - "Ye are never able to be fair and just as between women


IN SUMMARY

The practice of polygamy is a mathematical contradiction to the principle that men and women are to be treated equally. The Quran's allowance of multiple wives is therefore somewhat of a challenge to the contemporary muslim like yourself, who wants us to believe that Islam encourages gender equality. Often, the first line of defense is a weak claim that Islam is the only religion to encourage monogamy based on the snippet of verse 4:3 which says "marry only one."

In fact, this is simply not true. In the first place, the New Testament plainly states that the model Christian is the "husband of but one woman" to whom he should be faithful (ie. no exception for sex slaves, as the Quran allows). Secondly, the very Quranic verse from which the fragment "marry only one" is pulled is actually the very one that goes on to say that up to four wives are allowed as long as they "seem good" to the man!

There is no where in the Quran that allows an existing wife (or wives) any veto power in her husband's choice of additional sexual partners. In fact, it discourages it by twice presenting an episode from Muhammad's live in which his wives angered Allah with their jealousy.

There are worse things in the world than polygamy (which has been practiced by many cultures outside of Islam), but it is shocking to see a religion place such high value on a man's base sexual desire that he is permitted to bring other women into the marriage bed just to satisfy his lust. As pointed out, women are not allowed the same freedom to seek sexual satisfaction from alternate sources should their husband lose interest or capacity.

The Western world has decided that polygamy devalues a woman's worth. In Islam, however, a woman's worth is the sum of her sexual value to her husband

2 Likes

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by maclatunji: 4:14pm On Jul 26, 2013
^Gender equity not equality.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 4:23pm On Jul 26, 2013
bilms]

Question 2, The Quran says in Surah 38:44 - "And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath..." Is a woman allowed to beat a man as well? Why would a man beat his wife? She is flesh of his flesh and bone of his bone.

Thanks for attempting to answer this as well


Answer...

This Aya in the Quran was narating the incident which occured to Prophet Ayub...If you go back to 41,42,43 before the 44 you quoted, you will understand the quotation better.. pls, for the purpose of next time, don't just quote a section which has precedent from the previous chapters..

You are right, when reading about a topic, it is good to get the theme of the message. I brought out the single verse to show that a man (Job) in the Quran did hit his wife whether it was his oath to Allah or not.

Here Allah tells us about His servant and Messenger Ayub (Job) and how He tested him with sickness. These tests afflicted his body, his wealth and his children, until there was no part of his body that was healthy except his heart. Then he had nothing left in this world which he could use to help him deal with his sickness or the predicament he was in, besides his wife, who retained her devotion to him because of her faith in Allah and His Messenger. She used to work for people as a paid servant, and she fed and served him (Ayub) for nearly eighteen years. During this period, she did something to him, probably because of her work with people and Ayub (job), peace be upon him, got angry with his wife and was upset about something she had done when he was ill, so he swore an oath that if Allah healed him, he would strike her with one hundred blows.

First of all - the story of Job is taken from the Bible. It's clear here that Mohammed took the Torah/Old Testament, added salt and pepper here, took away the official account.

When Allah healed him, how could her service, mercy, compassion and kindness be repaid with a beating because she did something? So Allah showed him a way out of his oath, which was to take a bundle of thin grass, with one hundred stems, and hit her with it once. Thus he fulfilled his oath and avoided breaking his vow. This was the solution and way out to avoid breaking his vow.

The Bible said Job's wife told him to curse God and die. Even in that state, Job never made an oath to hurt his wife. Where the author of the Quran got that version from is strange to all of us. Whether he took a bundle of thin grass with one hundred stems is not the point, the POINT is that he HIT her.

Of course, what was said was not to hurt her in a way that would affect her, it is like someone you have promised to give 100 blows when you were angry, and when she comes, you just slightly touched her chicks.

The Quran clearly explains otherwise - you are adding your own interpretation. We don't know what job wife did. If he truly repented from punching her 100 times - he should have done it.

Here are a couple of examples from the Hadith:

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and [size=15pt]beat them[/size]; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Bukhari (72:715) - A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being "greener" than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.. Mohammed didn't tell the husband to stop beating his wife but told her to go back to him. How can a wife go back to an abusive husband. If your son-in-law or brother-in-law beat up your daughter or sister, you will tell them to go back to their husbands?

Abu Dawud (2142) - "The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife."

There is no debate here mate. Muslim men have a legitimate right in Islam to beat their wives. In the 21st century however and because of Western influence, they are trying to modernize and give different interpretation to the teachings in the Quran

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 4:24pm On Jul 26, 2013
maclatunji: ^Gender equity not equality.

Omo, park and sit down

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 4:33pm On Jul 26, 2013
bilms

the struck in the hadiths you quoted doesn't imply beating...It simply follow the same pattern as the above explanation.

This is a deliberate LIE. Look up the meaning of STRUCK or STRIKE and then come back here and be honest.

Narrated Mu'awiyah al-Qushayri: "I went to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) and asked him: What do you say (command) about our wives? He replied: Give them food what you have for yourself, and clothe them by which you clothe yourself, and do not beat them, and do not revile them. (Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 11, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Number 2139)"

That doesn't change the fact that he HIT/STRUCK his wife. Mohammad is the example to every muslim man and if we see where he STRUCK his wife, what stops muslim men from following in his foot-steps.

Qur'an (4:34) - "Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great."

Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: "He who believes in Allah and the Hereafter, if he witnesses any matter he should talk in good terms about it or keep quiet. Act kindly towards woman, for woman is created from a rib, and the most crooked part of the rib is its top. If you attempt to straighten it, you will break it, and if you leave it, its crookedness will remain there. So act kindly towards women. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 008, Number 3468)"

Again, Mohammed should have taken his own advice and remembered what he taught. He clearly did and STRUCK his wife

Bukhari (72:715) - "Aisha said, 'I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'" This is Muhammad's own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.'

Your prophet is on record for striking his wife and telling others a muslim man shouldn't be questioned when he beats his wife. If that isn't inequality, then I don't know what is
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by maclatunji: 5:17pm On Jul 26, 2013
^*Yawns*. A disbeliever displays his disbelief. What's new? That is enough derailment of this thread.

Thank you.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by alexis(m): 5:49pm On Jul 26, 2013
maclatunji: ^*Yawns*. A disbeliever displays his disbelief. What's new? That is enough derailment of this thread.

Thank you.

Can you ever contribute anything constructive? I will suggest you don't abuse your power and lock this thread like you did with another thread. Leave us to discuss and debate.

1 Like

Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 1:57pm On Aug 05, 2013
Alex, its obvious your intention is not to address your concern, but to drag and issues based on your wrong perspective. or what i could refer to as intentional distortion.

But if what you are doing here is done with Xtianity, definitely,conclusively, truthfully, it would be an exchange of word as most xtian as always ended up doing because you will find the dragging most insulting and embarrassing.


First, you were not there when the bible was writen, you meet it after thousand of years.
As the quran as established, there is only one God, the same which send Adam, Moses, Jesus,Solomon and others.. his revelation was never contradictory except for human contradiction.

The major reason for sending one prophet after the other to guide the people is because of that human contradiction and errors which has affected the words of God.

Just as Prophet Isa, jesus came to corrobate the Message of prophet Musa, Moses, Muhammed also came after Jesus, authenticating the messages of jesus and correcting the distorted.


If you send a your messenger to deliver a message and he did rightly, but after the people received it,in the course of transmission, they distorted it either intentionally or unintentionally, you then send another messenger with another message to correct that error. It is obvious that the new one is more correct than the distorted.


Peace.
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by soundpoint: 5:14pm On Aug 05, 2013
bilms

Alex, its obvious your intention is not to address your concern, but to drag and issues based on your wrong perspective. or what i could refer to as intentional distortion.

alexis is pointing out what the Quran and Hadith teaches - we have records of that, so you can either accept it or go around in circles.

But if what you are doing here is done with Xtianity, definitely,conclusively, truthfully, it would be an exchange of word as most xtian as always ended up doing because you will find the dragging most insulting and embarrassing.

Learn to refute someone else claim independently without dragging others into it. Islam can stand alone without Christianity.

First, you were not there when the bible was writen, you meet it after thousand of years.
As the quran as established, there is only one God, the same which send Adam, Moses, Jesus,Solomon and others.. his revelation was never contradictory except for human contradiction.

You weren't there when the Quran was written either, so you are making no point. The 3rd caliph burnt thousands of copies of the Quran than what you have in your hands today. Again, stick to the topic

The major reason for sending one prophet after the other to guide the people is because of that human contradiction and errors which has affected the words of God.

okay ........................................... ?

Just as Prophet Isa, jesus came to corrobate the Message of prophet Musa, Moses, Muhammed also came after Jesus, authenticating the messages of jesus and correcting the distorted.

So, Jesus Distorted the message he preached and Mohammed corrected it? So, Moses distorted the message he preahed and Jesus corrected it as well?


If you send a your messenger to deliver a message and he did rightly, but after the people received it,in the course of transmission, they distorted it either intentionally or unintentionally, you then send another messenger with another message to correct that error. It is obvious that the new one is more correct than the distorted.

You need to provide proof of who distorted what. When did they distort it, which particular people distort it. Did they distort the written text or the oral words spoken. You need to provide specifics on what was distorted. We need proof of the original teaching that we can refer to and the distortion that took place.

The Shia's believe in the Surah of Succession; the Sunnis don't. So, does that mean the Shia's distorted and corrupted the Quran?
Re: Women, Jewels Of Islam by bilms(m): 3:23pm On Sep 12, 2013
Jesus did not distort the message, people like you did.

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