Bidam: I think the best form of criticism is to read a book and not to hear a third party say it.Thank you.

shdemidemi:

If Paul says he wishes them all this, does that make it a doctrine to be preached! This is what he had to say about tribulations/ problems and afflictions we go through as believers-

3 ........ we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

shdemidemi:

If Paul says he wishes them all this, does that make it a doctrine to be preached. This is what he had to say about tribulations/ problems and afflictions we go through as believers-

3 ........ we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Bidam: It was actually John's epistle i quoted,too much of paul worshipping reading i guess.
Ermm..actually christian do still get rewardz here on earth and not only in the after-life..

Bidam: ;
You need to strike a balance bro..or have you forgotten the scriptures where paul says " I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry,whether living in plenty or in want .phil 4:12

The key to a triumphant christian living is contentment bro...and that is what Hagin teaches if you have read his books and not excesses which leads to error as some of you are spewing in this thread. .

shdemidemi:

Whether you like it or not, he remains the apostle for the Gentiles.

How does contentment relate with the prosperity gospel?

Bidam: . Wrong, he wasn't the only apostle sent to the gentiles,there were 700 at the time of Elijah that did not bow to Baal,my point is God can use anyone to write His books.Paul was just a privileged vessel.Don't hype it.

Bidam: .
It is not called prosperity gospel,but simply prosperity and that was why i asked you to define prosperity for me.You are yet to give me a definite answer. I await your definition.

shdemidemi:

I will pass on this so we don't derail the thread


Prosperity means financial multiplication in mysterious ways in these churches.

When such messages are preached, it becomes a gospel because they claim prosperity is pertinent to being a believer.

I also asked you a question- what is the relationship between contentment gospel and prosperity gospel?

Enigma: Joagbaje
Iwo o ti jawo ninu false doctrine!

YEAH, WE SEE hagin 'balance' in that OP video!

Nonsense and ingredients.

Joagbaje:

Egbon what is false in manifestations of the Holy Spirit. ? Holy Spirit la ma bawi . Won make joyful noise ni!

frosbel:

Jesus did not come to give you money, he came to give you life when you repent !

Joagbaje:

Egbon what is false in manifestations of the Holy Spirit. ? Holy Spirit la ma bawi . Won make joyful noise ni!

nlMediator: So after many pages and wasted hours, not one person can still point ONE error in HAGIN's message? And here we have people that are quick to judge. Lord have mercy.

Bidam: The tin tire me o my brother.The promise of the Father was the Holy Spirit, not a Bible. The written Word, the Bible has replaced the Holy Spirit in most Christians’ lives. The promise of the Father was the Holy Spirit, not a book, and the book as it has been printed and gotten into the hands of the multitudes over the centuries has replaced intimacy with the promise of the Father, the Holy Spirit.

DrummaBoy:
. . . it is Hagin that is influencing all of that.!

DrummaBoy:

And Hagin has become holy scriptures... smhl

It is no wonder Bidam and others come here and spew the rubbish they believe; it is Hagin that is influencing all of that.

Nonsense!

nlMediator:

My brother, I think you can do much better than that. Somebody opened a thread about Hagin and suddenly you do not want us to talk about him? You talk about "rubbish" and "nonsense" but you've given opportunity for the umpteenth time to spell out this rubbish and not one of you have been able to do so. All I need is "Hagin said X in p. 85 of Y Book and that is scripturally unsound" and we'll take it from there. I believe I have most of Hagin's books in my study or around here. But I promise that if the book you're quoting from is not here, I'll endeavor to order it without delay.

Bidam: Good.@drummaboy are you up for this challenge?

DrummaBoy:

I would not take up the challenge. I have better challenges to face on this forum: HAGIN IS NOT BIBLE AND THAT IS SUFFICIENT FOR ME.

He would do well to replace those Hagin books he has in his library with more reputable men of God's work over time.

I see Hagin disciples all over Christendom and the fruit they bear shows the rubbish they consume. Read scripture and find better Christian leaders to model ur life after.

[quote author=Ken4Christ]I warn all that are in the habit of condemning men of God to refrain from such act If you want to live long. It can open the door for sickness and untimely death. Remember what happened to Miriam when she spoke against Moses - She became leprous immediately. The Bible says, "...Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." (Psalms 105:15). Speaking negative words even about your neighbour can even kill talk more of men of God that are anointed. "Whoso privily slandereth his neighbour, him will I cut off: him that hath an high look and a proud heart will not I suffer." (Psalms 101:5). The Bible in Basic English renders this verse thus;

Word of Faith

Being a part of Word of Faith churches has not been a positive experience for me. The church that I had such a difficult time leaving — the one that I’ve written so much about in these pages — was a Word of Faith church.

Word of Faith isn’t a denomination; it describes anyone who believes certain things: prosperity, divine health & healing, and authority are common themes in WoF preaching. Just as in any other group or denomination, there’s a wide spectrum: some are more extreme than others, and those who take it to extremes can put themselves and others in danger.

Kenneth Hagin Sr. was considered the father of the modern WoF movement. He didn’t necessarily originate the doctrines that became the core of the WoF movement, many of those same ideas were already being taught others who never acheived the same level of prominence. But Hagin put the whole WoF package together in a way that no one else had before and promoted it very effectively. He had a compelling story of his own healing as a teenager, a healing he attributed to WoF doctrine.

These days, you’ll hear echoes of those teachings from countless ministers, even those who are part of mainstream denominations. Word of Faith influence is everywhere. You’ll hear it from the most popular preachers on TV. It’s a “feel-good” message that puts on a lot of emphasis on getting things for yourself: YOUR healing, YOUR victory, YOUR prosperity. It fits very well into American “me first” culture. It’s really all about controlling your life and your destiny, and who doesn’t want that?

WoF is sometimes called “name it and claim it” since that is the teaching that made them “famous.” Essentially, since God created the world and everything in it with His words, and since we are created in God’s image, we have the power to create with our words.

In other words… if you are sick, you never say that you are sick because saying that you are sick will make you worse. You always say that you are healed. The idea is that God’s people should ALWAYS be healthy, wealthy, and wise. If we don’t look and act and speak like we’re healthy, wealthy, and wise… then why would the world want to be like us?

To contrast WoF with UPC teaching, here’s an example:

In my UPC church, folks could talk about how sick they were. In fact, it wasn’t unusual to hear folks talking about how awful they felt or hear them go on about how tough things were for them. Then at the end, they’d wrap it up with “But praise God, I know I have the victory!” as a kinda verbal “get out of jail free” card. It was OK to talk the negative as long as you ended up on a positive. In WoF churches, that’s not an option. ANY negative speech automatically overpowers anything positive that you might say.

In the UPC, anything bad that happened to you could be blamed on the devil or “spiritual attack” or even persecution. In a WoF church, nothing bad could happen to you unless you gave the devil a foothold through your words. So if you were sick, it was your fault. If your family member died an untimely death, it was your fault. Your faith just wasn’t strong enough. You could have prevented it if only you were more spiritual.

In the more extreme forms of WoF teaching, these folks do not go to doctors or hospitals (or delay treatment until it is too late). They believe that God will heal them if they can just get their faith in line. They often live beyond their means because conspicuous consumption is a sign of God’s blessing, which is a sign that you must be a solid believer.

The authority teaching can also be dangerous. These folks are fond of saying “Touch not God’s anointed!” The pastor is the final authority in a church. No one under him has the right to challenge his decisions. If you are a member of the church, you are under his authority, even in matters that are not church related. Choice of spouse, friends, work, when and where to take a vacation… you are expected to consult the pastor on all these things.

Your salvation is constantly in jeopardy as well. If you didn’t feel saved, you probably lost your salvation somewhere. Since you are saved by your words, you can become unsaved by your words at any time. If you question the teachings of the movement… or worse, question your pastor… you’re probably no longer saved (if you even were in the first place). Leaving the “covering” of your church exposed you to any number of hazards, including the loss of your salvation.

That’s what I dealt with when I left my Word of Faith church.

http://recoveringpentecostal.com/word-of-faith/

nlMediator:

My brother, I think you can do much better than that. Somebody opened a thread about Hagin and suddenly you do not want us to talk about him? You talk about "rubbish" and "nonsense" but you've given opportunity for the umpteenth time to spell out this rubbish and not one of you have been able to do so. All I need is "Hagin said X in p. 85 of Y Book and that is scripturally unsound" and we'll take it from there. I believe I have most of Hagin's books in my study or around here. But I promise that if the book you're quoting from is not here, I'll endeavor to order it without delay.

Bidam:[/b]Good.@drummaboy are you up for this challenge?

Bidam: The question begging for answers is: What error did Hagin preached?

Ken4Christ: I have watched the video. I do not see anything strange about it. The truth is that the things of the spirit are foolishness to the carnal man. If frosbel and those who join him to speak againt these men of God live more than two years from now, I will call it a miracle. They are just progra
mming their lives for early death. I feel sorry for them. These men are among the greatest teachers of the word of God in our generation.

pet_saint:

Thank God you are not God. Is that statement/message from the holy spirit too, you go too far by speaking death/judgment because someone teaches what you do not believe/accept despite being scriptural.

Paul ought to have died for opposing peter. The confirmed rock on which the Gospel is built. This too is a sign of the Anti Christ, trying to control people with fear. Sorry Nobody's life is in your hand.

pet_saint:

Sorry I don't follow teachers too seriously

DrummaBoy:
The WOF movement’s chief error is the prosperity gospel. This gospel is called the health and wealth gospel. The means of achieving this prosperity is via the name it and claim it principles. Many adherents refuse to accept the fact that the prosperity teaching is a gospel because it would bring out the truth to them that what they believe in is another gospel. The easiest litmus test of this gospel is to compare it with the gospel in the New Testament. I have argued in other places on this forum that the gospel God would have the church propagate is the gospel of grace. This gospel was preached primarily by Paul the Apostle, while Jesus and the other apostles testified to it. Jesus did not preach the gospel of grace exclusively (and that is why I think we should all give Shdemidemi the opportunity to explain to us the gospel of the Kingdom which he claims Jesus preached) because he was born under the law and was subject to the law. He however lent credence to this gospel of grace in many instances when he made it clear that man was not made for the law; but the law was made for man – and so the Pharisees preoccupation with the letter of the law and refusing to submit to the Spirit of it was in direct conflict with God’s will. So we must compare the WOF teaching or the prosperity gospel with the gospel of grace to know whether it really is a gospel we should believe or another gospel that Paul said the church was ever in danger of being infiltrated with.