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FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) - Religion - Nairaland

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To Athiests, What Are Your Reasons For Dumping Religious Faith To Athiesm / The Glamour Of Atheism / The Cowardice Of Atheism (2) (3) (4)

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FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by plaetton: 11:57pm On Aug 24, 2013
I intend, through deductive reasoning, to prove that atheism is the default mental settings, and, that religious faith is the extreme Form of our default mental/ intellectual settings.

Therefore, when one breaks from the pack to declare atheistic viewpoints, the person is actually pressing the reset or reboot button to revert to default settings.
"When in doubt,Reboot".

Anyway, while I take my time to assemble my points,I invite all to present theirs.

3 Likes

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by plaetton: 3:43am On Aug 25, 2013
PREAMBLE:

During the soviet era, and all untill the final collapse of the former Soviet Union , it was a commonly accepted notion that Capitalism and Communism were two diametrically opposed systems of resource allocation and distribution.
In Communism, it was believed that national resources of production and distribution belonged to all the people, and was to be held in sacred trust by the state.

Capitalism, on the other hand, relied on few private profit-motivated hands for the efficient allocation, production and distribution of resources.
Both were assumed to be opposite ideological, political and economic systems.
For a very long time, a cold war between the two foremost nations sort of cemented that dichotomy in everyone's mind.

However, with collapse of the former Soviet union, we have seen the rise of the oligarchs, the super rich billionaires of the new Russia.
These oligarchs, an elite few, are now the champions of free market capitalism. These oligarchs are former members, or friends and family members of the politbureau or the communist party top brass.

One is forced to wonder where and how did the newly minted oligarchs learn and master the capitalist system so fast?
The answer is they did not have to learn it all.
It now appears that communism was just a fancy name and mask for super or extreme capitalism.
The former communist party top brass simply kept the resources that they held, or pretended to hold in trust for masses.

So, in communism, contrary what was being professed, state resources and all the factors of production were held and controlled by even far fewer people than the capitalist systems of the west.

But unlike free market capitalism of the west, the extreme capitalism of the communist state operated on monopoly systems, where only a handful of powerful state elites controlled all the resources, whilest pretending to hold it in trust for the masses.

So today, the sudden rise of the Russian oligarchs to super billioniredom is certain proof that communist Russia was simply operating a kind of super or extreme capitalism under the veil of the generic word called communism.
Capitalism of the west and the communism of the east were simply two sides of the same coin, with one being more extreme than the other.

Incidentally, the same can be said of religious faith and atheism,... with one simply being the extreme of the other.

By simply disregarding what they preach and looking at what they do, I will endeavor to shed a microscopic light on religious beliefs and practices, and to do a piece by piece analysis to prove that it is all about doubts and disbelief,- aka, atheism.
Stay tuned.
wink

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 6:58am On Aug 25, 2013
plaetton: I intend, through deductive reasoning, to prove that atheism is the default mental settings, and, that religious faith is the extreme Form of our default mental/ intellectual settings.

Therefore, when one breaks from the pack to declare atheistic viewpoints, the person is actually pressing the reset or reboot button to revert to default settings.
"When in doubt,Reboot".

Anyway, while I take my time to assemble my points,I invite all to present theirs.

Homo Sapiens as a specie is naturally curious and always seeking for answers. It's hardwired into our DNA. We are constantly looking for meaning and purpose of our life on earth, and the mysteries of the universe.

Is it a wonder that practically every civilization has their own version of the creation story? Every one has their culture imbibed in some kind of deity or another. Therefore, atheism is alien to our natural way of thinking. Calling it our default mental setting is laughable, because it goes contrary to human nature.

Atheism is lazy and content with what it can prove. Atheism is closeminded and lack imagination.

Atheism is simply an anomaly that sprung from our imagination as we evolve, it's simply a testimony to progress, nothing more.. As humans evolve, their way of thinking evolves with them.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 7:08am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Homo Sapiens as a specie is naturally curious and always seeking for answers. It's hardwired into our DNA. We are constantly looking for meaning and purpose of our life on earth, and the mysteries of the universe.

Is it a wonder that practically every civilization has their own version of the creation story? Every one has their culture imbibed in some kind of deity or another. Therefore, atheism is alien to our natural way of thinking.

It's simply a new movement, another strong point to the powers of evolution, perhaps(?) As humans evolve, their way of thinking evolves with them. Some might call it progress, doesn't mean that it's true though.
Wow..
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 7:11am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Homo Sapiens as a specie is naturally curious and always seeking for answers. It's hardwired into our DNA. We are constantly looking for meaning and purpose of our life on earth, and the mysteries of the universe.

Is it a wonder that practically every civilization has their own version of the creation story? Every one has their culture imbibed in some kind of deity or another. Therefore, atheism is alien to our natural way of thinking. Calling it our default mental setting is laughable, because it goes contrary to human nature.

Atheism is lazy and content with what it can prove. Atheism is closeminded and lack imagination.

Atheism is simply an anomaly that sprung from our imagination as we evolve, it's simply a testimony to progress, nothing more.. As humans evolve, their way of thinking evolves with them.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 7:44am On Aug 25, 2013
plaetton: I intend, through deductive reasoning, to prove that atheism is the default mental settings, and, that religious faith is the extreme Form of our default mental/ intellectual settings.

Therefore, when one breaks from the pack to declare atheistic viewpoints, the person is actually pressing the reset or reboot button to revert to default settings.
"When in doubt,Reboot".

Anyway, while I take my time to assemble my points,I invite all to present theirs.
Plaetton, I don't think it is a logical argument to assume that atheism is a default mental setting.
What it implies is that the human mind from the instant of conception has been tied to a belief in the absence of a deity. Atheism.
And then we begin to wonder how by default, a being will disagree in a concept he is yet to come across.
Something he is not aware of. How can that be.
Don't ever think that atheism will exist if there is no theism.
The argument fails from your premise.
Don't you think that for a being to have an unbelief in anything, as in, to be opposing any proposition, he must be aware of both the proposition and the opposition?
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 7:58am On Aug 25, 2013
Reyginus: Plaetton, I don't think it is a logical argument to assume that atheism is a default mental setting. What it implies is that the human mind from the instant of conception has been tied to a belief in the absence of a deity. Atheism!
And then we begin to wonder how by default, a being will disagree in a concept he is yet to come across. Something he is not aware of. How can that be.
Don't ever think that atheism will exist if there is no theism.
The argument fails from your premise.
Don't you think that for a being to have an unbelief in anything, as in, to be opposing any proposition, he must be aware of both the proposition and the opposition?


A logic he doesn't seem to grasp.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:02am On Aug 25, 2013
Reyginus: Plaetton, I don't think it is a logical argument to assume that atheism is a default mental setting.
What it implies is that the human mind from the instant of conception has been tied to a belief in the absence of a deity. Atheism.
And then we begin to wonder how by default, a being will disagree in a concept he is yet to come across.
Something he is not aware of. How can that be.
Don't ever think that atheism will exist if there is no theism.
The argument fails from your premise.
Don't you think that for a being to have an unbelief in anything, as in, to be opposing any proposition, he must be aware of both the proposition and the opposition?


Would you accept then that we do not come hardwired with any beliefs in a Creator?
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:09am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:

Would you accept then that we do not come hardwired with any beliefs in a Creator?

Yes. I don't think we were born with a default belief in any deity. I think belief in a deity is built.
But Muskeeto, you should have known(and I think you know) that if it so, a trace of unbelief in a deity will be lacking in every being.

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Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:19am On Aug 25, 2013
All the folklores and myths passed down from generation to generations is a clear testament that humans started out as theist(obviously not from conception, but through evolution). Anybody saying otherwise, is living in fools paradise.

Man started out with curiosities, Curiosity begets Superstition, Superstition in turn begets questions, Questions beget answers. Answers beget Religion. That's my theory of how how man's belief in deities came to fruition. It evolved naturally...with no space for atheism.

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:21am On Aug 25, 2013
Reyginus: Yes. I don't think we were born with a default belief in any deity. I think belief in a deity is built.
But Muskeeto, you should have known(and I think you know) that if it so, a trace of unbelief in a deity will be lacking in every being.
Cool...
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:32am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn: All the folklores and myths passed down from generation to generations is a clear testament that humans started out as theist. Anybody saying otherwise, is living in fools paradise.
Ofcourse they started as theists, but I don't think we are born theists.
If we were born theists I think a belief in a deity will be compulsory for the satisfaction of a physical need, without which our mortal bodies go into non-existence.
The fact that we have atheists dispute it. Except every single atheist is lying to himself. And how can this be?
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:33am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:
Cool...
cheesy
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:39am On Aug 25, 2013
Reyginus: Ofcourse they started as theists, but I don't think we are born theists.


True.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by onetrack(m): 8:47am On Aug 25, 2013
As an atheist, I wouldn't necessarily say that people are born atheist as much as agnostic. However, human beings are born curious and as such they seek to explain how the world works. When they lack the means to explain things in a logical way, they come up with an illogical way....religion.

2 Likes

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 8:49am On Aug 25, 2013
onetrack: As an atheist, I wouldn't necessarily say that people are born atheist as much as agnostic. However, human beings are born curious and as such they seek to explain how the world works. When they lack the means to explain things in a logical way, they come up with an illogical way....religion.

Beautiful response! I don't agree with the bolded though.

Religion is anything but illogical.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 9:17am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Beautiful response! I don't agree with the bolded though.

Religion is anything but illogical.
How is religion logical? How is faith logical?
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 9:44am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:
How is religion logical? How is faith logical?


Religion is not opposed to logic, rather it transcends it.

What you see is not what you get. 2+2=5(Grey areas)
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:12am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:


Religion is not opposed to logic, rather it transcends it.

What you see is not what you get. 2+2=5(Grey areas)

Quite wrong. With religion, 2 + 2 can be anything you want it to be; 6, 1200, -123, x^e.... grey matter should be violated..

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:20am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:

Quite wrong. With religion, 2 + 2 can be anything you want it to be; 6, 1200, -123, x^e.... grey matter should be violated..

@the bold, we are on the same line. Adding 2s together wouldn't give you the presume 4 but anything which I represented with 5.

On the subject of the grey matter getting violated...how?
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:22am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Exactly what I implied. Adding 2s together wouldn't give you the presume 4 but anything which I represented with 5.

On the subject of the grey matter getting violated...how?
undecided undecided
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by onetrack(m): 10:23am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:


Religion is not opposed to logic, rather it transcends it.

What you see is not what you get. 2+2=5(Grey areas)

Sorry, but this is why religion lacks logic. The first statement is babble, and the second is flat wrong. If you can use those statements to explain why religion is logical, then I can also use those statements to explain why any fairy tale is logical and why all errors are not real errors but only metaphors. If that is the case then I can assert that we are all, in fact, perfect.

2 Likes

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:25am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:
undecided undecided

Let me rephrase; 2+2=5 or 6 or 7 or anything, which makes it more complex, thus the grey matter connotation.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:28am On Aug 25, 2013
onetrack:

Sorry, but this is why religion lacks logic. The first statement is babble, and the second is flat wrong. If you can use those statements to explain why religion is logical, then I can also use those statements to explain why any fairy tale is logical and why all errors are not real errors but only metaphors. If that is the case then I can assert that we are all, in fact, perfect.

I don't expect you to understand...what with being an atheist and all.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:29am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Let me rephrase; 2+2=5 or 6 or 7 or anything you want it to be, which makes it more complex, thus the grey matter connotation.
Complex is logic that's difficult to follow or understand.. This, on the other hand, is making conclusions without any proven method; conclusions that are solely subjective in most cases. One believes that a virgin can give birth but the baby cannot be a part of the trinity, another believes that 1 God is 3, yet separate.. yet another believes that a God cannot be born.. and so on and so forth.. This is an abuse of the privilege of thinking... the religious term is 'mystery' for God's ways are not our ways...

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:31am On Aug 25, 2013
musKeeto:
the religious term is 'mystery' for God's ways are not our ways...

Now, you are getting it.

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by italo: 10:36am On Aug 25, 2013
No. Religion is not illogical. It's Atheism that is illogical and I'll tell you why.

I tell you I know God is. That he is Spirit but can sometimes manifest himself in the physical or make himself perceivable to our natural senses. I tell you I have perceived him. Yet you claim I have never perceived him. How are you to know?

How can you say because you cant see something, it doesnt exist?

How illogical does it get?

You claim that I have faith without physical evidence...and I agree. You tell me I believe religious leaders when they tell me God is without physical evidence and I agree.


But the irony is: you believe man evolved from fish without physical evidence too. You believe in emotions like love and hate exist without physical evidence too. You believe because men have told you these without physical evidence too.

Evidently, even Atheists are people of FAITH too: BELIEVING without physical evidence.

Then, the troubling thing is: you ask me to use a telescope to show you a spirit.

Incredible!

Like a blind man asking me to show him a picture before he can believe something.

Spiritually, you are blind and will not perceive a spirit...

onetrack: As an atheist, I wouldn't necessarily say that people are born atheist as much as agnostic. However, human beings are born curious and as such they seek to explain how the world works. When they lack the means to explain things in a logical way, they come up with an illogical way....religion.

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:42am On Aug 25, 2013
Welldone Italo, Welldone. Well said.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:44am On Aug 25, 2013
italo: No. Religion is not illogical. It's Atheism that is illogical and I'll tell you why.

I tell you I know God is. That he is Spirit but can sometimes manifest himself in the physical or make himself perceivable to our natural senses. I tell you I have perceived him. Yet you claim I have never perceived him. How are you to know?

How can you say because you cant see something, it doesnt exist?

How illogical does it get?

You claim that I have faith without physical evidence...and I agree. You tell me I believe religious leaders when they tell me God is without physical evidence and I agree.


But the irony is: you believe man evolved from fish without physical evidence too. You believe in emotions like love and hate exist without physical evidence too. You believe because men have told you these without physical evidence too.

Evidently, even Atheists are people of FAITH too: BELIEVING without physical evidence.

Then, the troubling thing is: you ask me to use a telescope to show you a spirit.

Incredible!

Like a blind man asking me to show him a picture before he can believe something.

Spiritually, you are blind and will not perceive a spirit...





lol at the bold.....


Religion is illogical. Fact
Religion offers no spirituality.
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by MrTroll(m): 10:45am On Aug 25, 2013
FrostyZonn:

Now, you are getting it.
grin grin grin

@muskeeto, you de try with this guy o!

1 Like

Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by Nobody: 10:52am On Aug 25, 2013
Mr Troll: grin grin grin

@muskeeto, you de try with this guy o!

undecided
Re: FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) by MrTroll(m): 10:57am On Aug 25, 2013
italo: No. Religion is not illogical. It's Atheism that is illogical and I'll tell you why.
let's go there!!! cheesy

I tell you I know God is. That he is Spirit but can sometimes manifest himself in the physical or make himself perceivable to our natural senses. I tell you I have perceived him. Yet you claim I have never perceived him. How are you to know?
you can't just say it and expect to be believed. We are not gullible sheeple you know. You have to show proof for your claim. Until then, it remains a drug induced hallucination. Muchechechecheche grin

How can you say because you cant see something, it doesnt exist?
this is a strawman. You can know something exists without seeing it physically. No atheists make the claim that everything that exists must be physically seen.

How illogical does it get?

You claim that I have faith without physical evidence...and I agree. You tell me I believe religious leaders when they tell me God is without physical evidence and I agree.
another strawman...


But the irony is: you believe man evolved from fish without physical evidence too. You believe in emotions like love and hate exist without physical evidence too. You believe because men have told you these without physical evidence too.
there are evidences for evolution. Don't be an ignorant douchebag. Have you heard of inductive reasoning?

Evidently, even Atheists are people of FAITH too: BELIEVING without physical evidence.
undecided believing in what without evidence?

Then, the troubling thing is: you ask me to use a telescope to show you a spirit.

Incredible!

Like a blind man asking me to show him a picture before he can believe something.
another strawman. Do you work in an animal farm?

Spiritually, you are blind and will not perceive a spirit...
muchechecheche grin

1 Like

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