bigfrancis21: Adams and Mrs Chima, You guys are derailing the thread!

bite her!

Abagworo:

Those things don't exist or have lost relevance in today's society. In the past there existed cleansing done in Nri for the Osu. Most Igbo slaves were victims of Religious deceit and not necessarily captives. It is no different from todays Church slavery. Igbos especially the Isuama Igbos fall easy prey to religion.

It has not o.
I hope you typed the above because you truly thought they have lost relevance?
I went to my family house some days back and overheard my Mum discussing the Ohu thing with my Oldboy, the thing just dey vex me.
Of course I let them know my thoughts about the Osu and Ohu thing, how I thought it was utter nonsense and will not hesitate to take one for a wife if I like her enough, Dem just dey look me.

I want to ask you something.
Why would an Osu or Ohu need cleansing of any form?
Will/Can you marry an Osu or Ohu in Igbo land today without anybody batting an eyelid? Is that what you're saying?
That your family will not think anything of it.

Abagworo:

Those things don't exist or have lost relevance in today's society.

Why are you speaking from both your mouth and a n u s. At first they don't exist, then in denial of the fact that IT STILL EXISTS you said they have lost relevance.

@Kwangi, Abagworo is partly an Osu

Abagworo: In the past there existed cleansing done in Nri for the Osu. Most Igbo slaves were victims of Religious deceit and not necessarily captives. It is no different from todays Church slavery. Igbos especially the Isuama Igbos fall easy prey to religion.

Your explanation doesn't make sense at all, who are the people enslaving them, is it not fellow Igbo people? The crust is, the practice is embedded in the entire Igbo society. Save yourself the explanations or better still listen as Kwangi breaks the news to you.

It has not o.
I hope you typed the above because you truly thought they have lost relevance?
I went to my family house some days back and overheard my Mum discussing the Ohu thing with my Oldboy, the thing just dey vex me.
Of course I let them know my thoughts about the Osu and Ohu thing, how I thought it was utter nonsense and will not hesitate to take one for a wife if I like her enough, Dem just dey look me.

I want to ask you something.
Why would an Osu or Ohu need cleansing of any form?
Will/Can you marry an Osu or Ohu in Igbo land today without anybody batting an eyelid? Is that what you're saying?
That your family will not think anything of it.

^^Truth is, they're just victims of their larger society's insecurities.
These people have done absolutely nothing wrong!
Hell! Most of them became "Osu" in order to escape one form of injustice or persecution from some members of their society.
How does someone who runs to the gods for protection become an outcast?
Rotten something!
Man, this Osu thing dey vex me die.

kwangi:
Will/Can you marry an Osu or Ohu in Igbo land today without anybody batting an eyelid? Is that what you're saying?
That your family will not think anything of it.

Like I've always written on Nairaland in the past, it is only during marriage that the Osu issue comes up and it takes a whole lot of investigation to even know who is Osu or not. And mind you, during marriage in Igboland, tribe, hometown, religion, family history and so many things can hinder a marriage and not only osu.

In my family, osu is irrelevant because we've intermarried from hundreds of years ago with various ethnic groups from within and beyond.

Finally if the "osu" issue is so common, why does nobody ever meet an "osu" until marriage?

Abagworo:

Like I've always written on Nairaland in the past, it is only during marriage that the Osu issue comes up and it takes a whole lot of investigation to even know who is Osu or not.

Finally if the "osu" issue is so common, why does nobody ever meet an "osu" until marriage?

Yeah, your post is mostly true. I think all these are obtainable because we now live in cities where people from different parts converge.
I believe those who grew up in the villages will not need an investigation to meet and know who and where the Osus are, that is, where they reside.

Basically, those of them who feel the heat the most are those of them based in the villages.
Those guy go through shyte.
I've never met one myself but we have them where I come from.

kwangi: Yeah.
For me, I think it's the fact that somebody thought they required 'cleansing'.
Who thought it necessary for them to be cleansed?
Was it they, themselves or the Priest who carried out the cleansing? Who?
From what exactly? From their slave status to free-borns?

This brings the question of the Osu and Ohu to mind.
Since there is need to 'cleanse', how about they start with the Osus and the Ohus?
This is one angle of the Igbo society that annoys me!

It is not exactly the physical and dogmatic cleansing like christian baptism and babalawo bathing.But rather it is the mental and somewhat spiritual reawakening of mind that empowers it to claim its rightful place in nature.It is the removal of self impose guilt of seeing themselves as mere descendants of slaves that have no choices or originality.They feel guilty for the evils of slavery even when they are the victims and they feel subdued that why they refuse to find their roots.

ijaw citizen: Why are you speaking from both your mouth and a n u s. At first they don't exist, then in denial of the fact that IT STILL EXISTS you said they have lost relevance.

@Kwangi, Abagworo is partly an Osu
Your explanation doesn't make sense at all, who are the people enslaving them, is it not fellow Igbo people? The crust is, the practice is embedded in the entire Igbo society. Save yourself the explanations or better still listen as Kwangi breaks the news to you.

This is ignorance at its best

There is no pervasive osu caste system in Igboland. In fact there is no osu thing in Abia State. In areas where it allegedly occurs (Imo and Anambra) it has so almost gone into extinction that like Abagworo said, it comes up only during marriages and that is for very few traditionally-rooted families. I know you are acutely anti-Igbo and no amount of truth about Igbos will make you change your little mind. But hey! Who cares about your narrow-minded opinion? I am an Igbo man of over 27 years and I have not seen an osu before. Only story, story na him we dey hear. Are they ghosts?

Adelaide2:

This is ignorance at its best

There is no pervasive osu caste system in Igboland. In fact there is no osu thing in Abia State. it has so almost gone into extinction that like Abagworo said, it comes up only during marriages and that is for very few traditionally-rooted families. Only story, story na him we dey hear. Are they ghosts?

THIS IS A LIE O, bro.
What is almost gone extinct?
It comes up only during marriage because most people live in the cities these days. People from different parts of the land, so nobody knows the background of their neighbour. But if people get to know trust me it'll be a talking point.
And it not a few traditionally rooted family anything o!
Forget the bashers, bigots and tribalists for a minute.

kwangi: THIS IS A LIE O, bro.
What is almost gone extinct?
It comes up only during marriage because most people live in the cities these days. People from different parts of the land, so nobody knows the background of their neighbour. But if people get to know trust me it'll be a talking point.
And it not a few traditionally rooted family anything o!
Forget the bashers, bigots and tribalists for a minute.

If you conduct a survey of who has seen an "Osu" on Nairaland, I assure you 95% either don't know what it is or have not met any. It is a sleeping dog that should be left to lay.

2ndly as the only Nairalander that has witnessed the Osu, I'd like you to tell us the maltreatments meted on Osu by Dialas so that we can actually understand. Apart from marriage and Kingship, what else are they restricted from or forced to undergo in your village?

Adelaide2:

This is ignorance at its best

There is no pervasive osu caste system in Igboland. In fact there is no osu thing in Abia State. In areas where it allegedly occurs (Imo and Anambra) it has so almost gone into extinction that like Abagworo said, it comes up only during marriages and that is for very few traditionally-rooted families. I know you are acutely anti-Igbo and no amount of truth about Igbos will make you change your little mind. But hey! Who cares about your narrow-minded opinion? I am an Igbo man of over 27 years and I have not seen an osu before. Only story, story na him we dey hear. Are they ghosts?

LOLs....You can tell yourself all theses things to feel better, but we all know the truth. We've seen people discriminating against them, and I have met some complaining to me about how fellow Igbos are treating them.

You people are having this abstract mentality that this practice have "gone into extinction" because they don't come to complain to you or express their dislike to you for treating them as OSU, they would rather go to people who they know won't discriminate against them to lay their complain. Historically, that is why there are so many Ijaw features prominient in their culture and traditions even up till today.

You can accuse me of anything you like but I don't become guity just because you said so! These issues are real and are in the very fabric and foundation of the Igbos society. Denial won't save you.

My last comment on this thread which is the opinion I'm entitled to, is the conclusion that it is the African Americans that need to perform cleansing rituals on you people who still practice discrimination because they have been cleansed of every stigma long ago BEFORE GOD & MAN.

Abagworo:

If you conduct a survey of who has seen an "Osu" on Nairaland, I assure you 95% either don't know what it is or have not met any. It is a sleeping dog that should be left to lay.

2ndly as the only Nairalander that has witnessed the Osu, I'd like you to tell us the maltreatments meted on Osu by Dialas so that we can actually understand. Apart from marriage and Kingship, what else are they restricted from or forced to undergo in your village?

It's a sleeping dog so I should let it lay?
So what do I do when it wakes up? Since the dog is NOT DEAD!
What does that young man do when he finds out that he cannot marry the girl of his dreams because of some lame class strata which neither he nor the lady knows jack about?


Now this is pathetic. So pathetic that you have to say "apart from"! WTF!!
More pathetic is you trying to isolate it to "my village".
Maltreatment?
Are lepers restricted from or forced to undergo anything in your village.
Do you have the slightest idea of what discrimination connotes?
The psychological trauma?
Dude, if it smells like poo then it's definitely poo.

ijaw citizen: LOLs....You can tell yourself all theses things to feel better, but we all know the truth. We've seen people discriminating against them, and I have met some complaining to me about how fellow Igbos are treating them.

You people are having this abstract mentality that this practice have "gone into extinction" because they don't come to complain to you or express their dislike to you for treating them as OSU, they would rather go to people who they know won't discriminate against them to lay their complain. Historically, that is why there are so many Ijaw features prominient in their culture and traditions even up till today.

You can accuse me of anything you like but I don't become guity just because you said so! These issues are real and are in the very fabric and foundation of the Igbos society. Denial won't save you.

You should see where the Osus are being discussed by fellow Igbos. Especially where they find out that, let's say a neighbour or colleague turns out to be an Osu, trust me you'll shake your head in pity.

Then despite them knowing people's reaction, Abagworo expects them to come out and shout at the top of their voice that they are Osu.
Plus, they relate more closely with each other, even in the cities, they have this bond since they can't take their situation to the very people subjecting them to it.
Trust me, when you "abhor" someone, you don't need to say anything, they'll just know.

kwangi: It's a sleeping dog so I should let it lay?
So what do I do when it wakes up? Since the dog is NOT DEAD!
What does that young man do when he finds out that he cannot marry the girl of his dreams because of some lame class strata which neither he nor the lady knows jack about?


Now this is pathetic. So pathetic that you have to say "apart from"! WTF!!
More pathetic is you trying to isolate it to "my village".
Maltreatment?
Are lepers restricted from or forced to undergo anything in your village.
Do you have the slightest idea of what discrimination connotes?
The psychological trauma?
Dude, if it smells like poo then it's definitely poo.

Can you please tell us what discrimination you are talking about? I've read a lot about the issue and all I see is marriage marriage marriage! Why not give us the instances of maltreatments in your village against the Osu since you are the only Nairalander that has met one. I advice you to be truthful and not lie if you are really Igbo. Kowatara anyi ihe bu amadi na olu igbo. Kowatakwa ihe bu diala, Aha obodo gi, ihe bu "aro", "ohu/oru", "osu", "agwu", "ume".

Abagworo:

Can you please tell us what discrimination you are talking about? I've read a lot about the issue and all I see is marriage marriage marriage! Why not give us the instances of maltreatments in your village against the Osu since you are the only Nairalander that has met one. I advice you to be truthful and not lie if you are really Igbo. Kowatara anyi ihe bu amadi na olu igbo. Kowatakwa ihe bu diala, Aha obodo gi, ihe bu "aro", "ohu/oru", "osu", "agwu", "ume".

"...If I'm truly Igbo"
Anybody that does not pretend like his culture is perfect on nairaland is not Igbo?
Pfft, try again.
I doubt if you read the post you quoted,if you did you didn't understand it or just decided to be blind to it.
"Kowatara anyi"?
Who the eff are you and who are the "anyi" that you deem yourselves important enough to demand an explanation of who I am?
Kowatara my backside!
I know when people resort to ad hominem in an argument it means one thing, so I understand your plight.


Now to the subject matter.
This what discrimination is!
dis·crim·i·na·tion  (d-skrm-nshn)

n.

1. The act of discriminating.

2. The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.

3. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

treat·ment - /ˈtrētmənt/
Noun:
1. The manner in which someone behaves toward or deals with someone or something
2. Medical care given to a patient for an illness or injury

Please if you're going to post anything else, make sure it's not as pathetic and uncoordinated as your last two posts.
I don't have time to be running in circles with you.

kwangi: "...If I'm truly Igbo"
Anybody that does not pretend like his culture is perfect on nairaland is not Igbo?
Pfft, try again.
I doubt if you read the post you quoted,if you did you didn't understand it or just decided to be blind to it.
"Kowatara anyi"?
Who the eff are you and who are the "anyi" that you deem yourselves important enough to demand an explanation of who I am?
Kowatara my backside!
I know when people resort to ad hominem in an argument it means one thing, so I understand your plight.


Now to the subject matter.
This what discrimination is!
dis·crim·i·na·tion  (d-skrm-nshn)

n.

1. The act of discriminating.

2. The ability or power to see or make fine distinctions; discernment.

3. Treatment or consideration based on class or category rather than individual merit; partiality or prejudice: racial discrimination; discrimination against foreigners.

treat·ment - /ˈtrētmənt/
Noun:
1. The manner in which someone behaves toward or deals with someone or something
2. Medical care given to a patient for an illness or injury

Please if you're going to post anything else, make sure it's not as pathetic and uncoordinated as your last two posts.
I don't have time to be running in circles with you.

You are either from an unknown community or you are not Igbo period. Everyone else has confessed that they've not met an Osu in their lives and care less about it except during marriage. I don't know what else you are trying to imply. Maybe we should all go back to the village, revive a dying culture and conduct a census to label some people Osu and others Diali. Since people of our generation cannot tell who is Osu and who is not, don't you think our children might not even hear about it? It is all these Internet rubble rousing that has made a lot of us even know Osu existed or even start making inquiries about it.

Abagworo and Adelaide2, don't unnecessarily drag yourselves into an Osu discussion with people who only want to cry more than the supposed bereaved.

^^Hehe... Same old bull. It's expected.

I must admit here that I personally have never met an Osu before. I've lived so many years in Owerri (where the Osu system is said to be prominent), having done half of my primary school there and all of my secondary school there too, I never came across an Osu or heard anyone being called 'Osu' or taunted with 'Osu'. I discovered that instead the reverse is the case as I noticed that its a taboo somewhat to discuss Osu in public so as to not hurt people's feelings.

Everyday, activities that create provisions for people to mix up are carried out daily in Owerri, from market areas teeming with population, overcrowded banks, overpopulated primary/secondary schools, universities, buses, taxis, kekes etc, everybody mixes up freely and nobody ever remembers the Osu thing. I remember learning about the Osu caste system during one of our Igbo classes and I noticed that the teacher was very careful with her diction throughout the lesson like she didn't want to hurt some people in class who could be 'Osus'. She wasn't direct in her statements and spoke using indirect statements and in adages(amata okwu). After the lesson it died there and everybody in the class went back to their usual liveliness and togetherness. We didn't start to ask ourselves, 'who's osu here' or taunt out loudly, 'if you're osu here, your world has been damned'. The Osu caste system occurrence in Igboland is exactly the same as the case of Blood Genotype whereby the issue of AA/AS/SS isn't a problem to be thought about and only crops up during marriage, whereby tests are carried out and some parties are deemed incompatible. Its the same way the Osu caste system is in Igboland. Moreover, the Osu caste system isn't present in all of Igboland. In Anambra and Enugu, it is almost non-existent. My paternal grandmother told me personally that it isn't present in our village and whole of modern Anambra state. I was impressed.

The only time Osu is ever mentioned is during marriage, when the parents of both parties go behind and ask questions(iju ase). If any family is discovered to be Osu, both engaged families part amicably as they would do in the case of incompatible genotypes and look elsewhere for love. Osus are rarely talked about and are rarely discriminated against like somebody said previously. Maybe there might be some little discrimination in the villages among the villagers but in the towns and cities, nobody remembers anything Osu until marriage comes up.

Despite the low importance which the modern Igbo people accord the Osu caste system, I am not in anyway in support of it and will want to see it done away with.

^^It can't get any clearer than this!
ON POINT.

But nairaland na funny place sha.

The Igbo Values Of Success, Education And Hardwork: A Case Of The Robeson Family

It is quite known that the Igbo people are a success-oriented people who have a penchant for hardwork, success, education and achievement. They are known to be well-traveled, often traveling to distant places where they make good living for themselves. They are also known to be business-minded, financially savvy and determined, taking pride in what they do and often distinguishing themselves in what ever field endeavor they find themselves in.

The aim of this essay is to showcase the unique trait for success and achievement which the Igbo people value no matter where they find themselves in using the Robeson family of North Carolina/Philadelphia as a case study.

The Robeson Family are an Igbo-African American family from North Carolina. The man, Mr. William Drew Robeson was born into slavery and later escaped from slavery in 1860 at 15 years, together with his brother, Ezekiel Robeson. His father, Benjamin Robeson, was born into slavery on the Roberson plantation near Cross Road Township and Raleigh, Martin County, North Carolina. William Robeson was of Igbo descent, having descended, through his Igbo father, from Igbo slaves enslaved from the Bight of Biafra and shipped to the Americas(North, Central and South America).

Mrs Maria Louisa Bustill-Robeson was born in 1853 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, of Igbo African, Native American, and Anglo-American descent. She was a descendant of the Igbo people on her paternal side through her great-grand father, Cyrus Bustill, an Eboe slave who had bought his freedom since mid 1700s.

The Robeson and Bustill families lived during the peak of the slave trade era, which was characterized by difficult living conditions for blacks and racial discrimination against black people(people of color). Despite the circumstances which they found themselves in, these two distinguished Eboe families worked hard and achieved success. Mr. William distinguished himself from many blacks of his time by attending college (Lincoln University) and obtaining an undergraduate degree, and later another one in Theology. Maria(often called Louisa as a child) also attended university, Lincoln University. Her great-grand father, Bustill, after escaping from slavery moved to Philadelphia where he opened a bakery business. Active with other free black leaders, Mr. Bustill became one of the founders in Philadelphia of the Free African Society in 1787, "the first mutual aid organization of African Americans. Through the years, the Bustill Eboe family achieved success and merit by becoming teachers, artists, business people, and pioneers in many professions.

Louisa was was already teaching when she met Robeson. She married Robeson in 1878 after which they had 7 children together, two of which died in infancy.

Both the Robesons emphasized education and advancement for their children. Their first daughter, Gertrude Lascet Robeson (1880), died as an infant. It was an "upwardly mobile" family; all but one of their sons were highly successful as adults, with two having professional careers. William Drew (Bill) Robeson, Jr.(1881-1927) became a physician in Washington, DC. Their daughter Marian M. Robeson (1894-1977) married Dr. William Forsythe and moved to Philadelphia; her husband became a successful businessman. Benjamin C. Robeson (1892-1966), became a minister at 'Mother Zion" African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church in Harlem, which was the second independent African-American denomination in the nation. John Bunyan Reeve Robeson (1886-1930) aka Reed Robeson, after being sent from home by his father for his propensity for getting into altercations with whites, married and moved to Detroit, where he worked as a laborer and may have worked at a hotel, but he died young and in poverty.

The youngest surviving child, Paul LeRoy Robeson, better known as Paul Robeson (1898-1976), became an internationally known athlete, orator, singer and actor. He also became an activist for civil rights. Another child died at birth, but the name is not known.

Noteworthy about these two notable Eboe families is that they found themselves living in the peak of slavery and surrounded by racism and difficult living circumstances for black people and despite the odds they distinguished themselves in their respective fields of endeavor. A symbolic feat for many blacks of that time.

Reading through the write up, one would notice the Igbo values of hard work, success, business mind, achievement, education, determination, and perseverance playing out in the lives of the families and their descendants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Drew_Robeson_I
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maria_Louisa_Bustill#cite_note-boyle-5

Drop your comments here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1430511/igbo-values-success-education-hardwork

docokwy:
Prof Acholonu was a senior special advisor to Obasanjo and a first-rate Igbocentric lady. Very smart, intelligent historian. She is heavily involved in the Igbo-Jew project as well.

More:

Prof. (Mrs) Catherine Obianuju Acholonu (born 26 Oct 1951, Orlu, Nigeria) is a Nigerian writer, researcher and former lecturer on African Cultural and Gender Studies. She is the former Senior Special Adviser (SSA) to President Olusegun Obasanjo on Arts and Culture, and foundation member of the Association of Nigerian Authors (ANA).
Contents

Biography

Catherine Acholonu was born in Orlu to the family of Chief Lazarus Olumba. She attended secondary schools in Orlu before becoming the first African woman to gain a master's degree (1977) and a Ph.D. (1987) from the University of Düsseldorf, Germany.[1] She taught at Alvan Ikoku College of Education, Owerri, commencing 1978.

Acholonu is the author of over 16 books, many of which are used in secondary schools and universities in Nigeria, and in African Studies Departments in USA and Europe. Her works and projects have enjoyed the collaboration and the support of United States Information Service (USIS), the British Council, the Rockefeller Foundation and in 1989 she was invited to tour educational institutions in USA, lecturing on her works under the United States International Visitor’s Program. In 1990 Catherine Acholonu was honored with the Fulbright Scholar in Residency award by the US government, during which she lectured at four colleges of the Westchester Consortium for International studies, NY, USA.

Part of her work has taken her into the wider sphere of sustainable development. In 1986 she was the only Nigerian, and one of only two Africans, to participate in the United Nations Expert Group Meeting on “Women, Population and Sustainable Development: the Road to Rio, Cairo and Beijing”, which was organized jointly by the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), the Division for the Advancement of Women, and the Division for Sustainable Development. This took place in the Dominican Republic, and focused on the mainstreaming of gender into the Plans of Action of the UN world conferences of Rio, Beijing and Cairo. Prof Acholonu holds several awards from home and abroad.

From 1999 to 2002, she was the Special Adviser on Arts and Culture to the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria, a post she resigned from to seek election, along with a number of other writers who felt their inclusion in Nigerian politics would for the good. However, she lost the contest for the Orlu senatorial district seat of Imo State, and drew attention to irregularities and rigging.

She was recently appointed African Renaissance Ambassador by the African Renaissance Conference with head quarters in the Republic of Benin, and Nigeria’s sole representative at the global Forum of Arts and Culture for the Implementation of the UN Convention to Combat Desertification (UNFAC). She is listed in the International Who’s Who of World Leadership, USA; the African Women Writers’ Who’s Who; the Top 500 Women in Nigeria; Who’s Who in Nigeria; and the International Authors and Writers Who’s Who, published in Cambridge, UK.

Acholonu is the Director of the Catherine Acholonu Research Center, Abuja (CARC). The center, based in Abuja, is pioneering research into Africa's pre-history, stone inscriptions, cave art, and linguistic analyses of ancient symbols and communication mediums from the continent. She argues that Nigerian rock-art inscriptions known as Ikom Monoliths prove that "Sub-Saharan African Blacks possessed an organized system of writing before 2000 B.C." and that she and her assistants are able to translate these.[2] In her book They Lived Before Adam: Prehistoric Origins of the Igbo The Never-Been-Ruled she argues that Igbo oral tradition is consistent with scientific research into the origins of humanity. Speaking at the Harlem Book Fair, Acholonu summarised the content of her argument in the book as follows:

She is correct, The Igbos are indeed Ancient like she said. This is the very reason why people should know that what they call Hebrew (of Ancient) in the Bible is Igbo. Abiamar (The Hebrew/Igbo man) left the Igboland for Middle East after Chukwu-Abiamar (GOD OF ABRAHAM) asked him to leave his fatherland (Igboland called Aladinma) for a land that HE would show him. The land was named after the land that he came from Aladinma or Alaoma. They took the name 'Ora Chialadinma' (called Ur of Chaldean/Chaldim by people who do not know the actual meaning of the word). You can even see them greeting 'Shalom' (which actually means 'Chialaoma') not knowing the actual meaning (they mostly pronounce 'Ch' as 'Sh'). I read a book Titled BEFORE THE COVENANT and the Author clearly explained all these things; I believe everyone should find this very book interesting because it is based on REAL FACT which can be seen and confirmed.