Ayatullah:


You are partially correct to say I found the title a little bit uncomfortable. The truth is that I found it totally uncomfortable. I did take my time to read through, so I am not just commenting based on the title, and I believe a good number of people must have seen the title and decided not to waste their time reading it because they must have concluded that it is coming from an Atheist, and indeed does an atheist deserve an attention? Not at all. Definitely, a title could be chosen to attract attention, but it could also fall flat just as this one has done, because majority of Nairalanders love the Almighty God and believe in His JUST institution of Heaven and Hell. At the end the OP may say the content of his write-up does not mean what the title intends, then I ask him, what have you achieved? Why have you chosen a literary style that destroy the aim of your writing?

free2ryhme: heaven and hell is real ...

in my opinion i totally disagree with everything you have analyze up there abt heaven and hell not existing


I stand on this verse of REV 20:15

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

infonubia:

While I understand your frustration with the title, and I apologize if you find it offensive, let me state that what drew my attention to the article was the title (No, I didn't write it). Already I don't believe in men's account of heaven and hell if doesn't align with the Bible. So, if the title had read "Why I don't believe in heaven and hell stories and testimonies," it probably wouldn't make it to the forum because I share the same view and there's not a need to validate my view on such topics.

When reading a sentence and it ends with "...", that tells me there's more to that statement. Please look at the title again. This writing style isn't unusual, matter of fact, it is a common practice. The only problem is lots of people on here didn't take time to read the post. You know that saying "do not judge a book by it's cover." That's exactly what happened here. Folks are quick to rush into conclusions on matters that they know little or nothing about.

I beg to differ on your assertion that the literary style destroys the aim of the writing. At least, the original post has got 22 Likes (that's about the average for a good post). Even if the writer was really making the case for why heaven and hell isn't real, as rational beings, I would expect that we read the "Why's" before we comment.

We live in a "politically correct" era where folks easy take statements out of context. This could be seen in most religious discussions on the forum. Someone was quoting Philippians 2:12 where the Bible was talking about working out our salvation with fear and trembling (paraphrasing). I asked a simply question: How do we work out our salvation with fear and trembling? The answer to that question is in verse 13 of the same chapter but the person didn't respond.

Lastly, I appreciate you and others who read the write-up and I hope you get the point of the post. Unfortunately, while I appreciate all comments (at least the first few comments got the post to the FP...lol) I can't take responsibility for folks who have refused to read but comment anyways.

It's all love bro, no hard feelings.

free2ryhme: heaven and hell is real ...

in my opinion i totally disagree with everything you have analyze up there abt heaven and hell not existing


I stand on this verse of REV 20:15

Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

infonubia: [ It's a long read.. Please, I promise it wouldn't take more than 10 minutes ]

If I ask whose report would you believe? Without knowing what am talking about, your religious mind will simply say "I believe the report of the LORD".

Unfortunately, that is not true on several matters. And one of such matters is that of life after death.

Yes Death!!! I know many of us are afraid to mention it. Yet we sing of "going to see the Lord...soon and very soon," forgetting that we have NOT only pass from death to life, but that death has been destroyed .. "... Christ Jesus, who has destroyed death and has brought life and immortality to light through the gospel..." - 2 Timothy 1.10. That is a topic for another day.

My concern this morning is whose report would you believe on the matter of Life after death?

I read from someone this morning asking about some people who died and came back to life and their testimonies. And I heard someone said a while ago that, some of these people even mention names of pastors (who are renown) they saw in hell.

Well, I choose to believe the report of the Lord as recorded in his word (the Bible). Not the testimonies of men which at best will only put fear in men. And engineer them only to please GOD within their own strength.

Why I don't believe these testimonies?

1. No one ever dies and come back except the LORD Jesus Christ himself. At best these people's testimonies are "NEAR" death experience. If they really died, then it is all over. It is appointed for man to die ONCE and after that judgement! So, I would take God's word over man's experience.

2. What else can someone's testimonies or experience tell that can be more accurate than the word of God? Read the very words from the very lips of Jesus himself on the account of life after death [..The Rich Man and Lazarus..] in Luke 16:19-31 --
...He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’ 'No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'
Verses 27- 31 is the conversation between the Rich man and father Abraham. It is very clear that if we don't believe God's word now and here even if someone rises from the dead, we would NOT believe or be convinced.

3. These people's experience is not NEW, but I only wonder why they speak more of hell and not heaven. They tell more of how people didn't make it.

But listen to another man or a man that knows another man in scripture with such experience and his own testimony ...
..I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not know—God knows.
And I know that this man—whether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows—
was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that NO ONE is permitted to tell... (2 Cor. 12:2-4)
Please, did you hear Paul? Things that NO ONE is PERMITTED to TELL!! So, why are these ones not, only telling theirs but are making money of such testimony? Some sell tapes, CDs and DVDs!

At best, Paul called that experience "visions and revelations from the Lord." When that actually happened we don't know, though Paul said 14 yrs ago, from the time he was writing the letter. But we know he was once stoned (to death -- that was the thought of those who stoned him) in Lystra [ Acts 14:19 ].

Obviously he was talking about himself. However, what surprised me is that he didn't start telling stories of who and who. He should have, since he was testifying of his Apostleship ( read from chapter 11 to get the whole gist ).

My point: All the details we need is already given in God's word. The original purpose of hell was for the devil and his angels.

4. Who is in HELL (lake of fire) and those not there wouldn't help you any further.

Moreover, no one is in hell [ That is what is called "the Second Death" ] NOW until after what the theologians called THE GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGEMENT! recorded in Rev. 20. Please compare Luke 16:23 with Revelation 20:15. Reading from verse 1 or 2 will definitely help.

Yes I'm aware that KJV translated v. 23 to say "in hell" instead of "in Hades (the realm of the dead)". Revelation 20, will clear the air, that the devil goes in there first, AFTER the beast and false prophet then death and Hades and then others whose names were not found written in the book of life. Please read Revelation Chapter 20 - 22 to get more clarity on this.

5. It surprises me that some Christians, now need somewhat testimonies to know who goes where, and themselves are not even sure of their own destination.

Maybe this could be of help this morning:

a. No one is condemned or judged because they are SINNERS. Every man is condemned because primarily he/she REJECT God's provision for SIN. These are not my words, that is God's word:
16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. - John 3.
Please did you see verses 18? "...but he that believeth not is condemned ALREADY, [ WHY ] because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.."

What then is the CONDEMNATION? verses 19 "..And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.."

But someone might say, Revelation 21:8 says
..But as for the cowards and the ignoble and the contemptible and the cravenly lacking in courage and the cowardly submissive, and as for the unbelieving and faithless, and as for the depraved and defiled with abominations, and as for murderers and the lewd and adulterous and the practicers of magic arts and the idolaters (those who give supreme devotion to anyone or anything other than God) and all liars (those who knowingly convey untruth by word or deed)—[all of these shall have] their part in the lake that blazes with fire and brimstone. This is the second death....
Yes, you are right, but do you start talking by using the word "BUT"? So, read verse 7
..He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son..
Link that with
..Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God.. For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: ...and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? - 1 John 5:1,4-5 (KJV)
What saves us is the faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work. No more, no less!!!
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." -- John 17:3
These are things that gives me assurance that if I close my eyes in death today, I will open them with the Lord! Not somewhat testimonies.

Then someone may then ask me, "are these people telling a LIE?" Well, I don't know.

What I know is "let God be found true, though every man be found a liar..." I would rather believe God's word than man's testimonies that can change tomorrow. What if they wake up tomorrow to change the testimonies? What happened to those whose faith is anchored on such?

If all these testimonies have no correlation with God's word, I can't believe them.
..And when the people [instead of putting their trust in God] shall say to you, Consult for direction mediums and wizards who chirp and mutter, should not a people seek and consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? [Direct such people] to the teaching and to the testimony! If their teachings are not in accord with this word, it is surely because there is no dawn and no morning for them." -- Isaiah 8:19-20

.....Stories And Testimonies. -- Join this with the title of this write up. I got you...

Happy New Month!

Timothy Adigun

http://www.infonubia.com/2013/08/why-i-dont-believe-in-heaven-and-hell.html

RayPedra: Very nice article and love your style of writing.
Most people don't take time to read and understand the message being passed across by a writer so they tend to miss it all...lol
The topic was what captured my attention and it's great. It has given me a better insight and has awaken me to the fact that people make up stories for whatever reasons - some may be genuine but what matters most is what God says. We do not need prophets in order to heed to God's word. He can speak to us individually and through other means. Sadly enough, people get carried away by false teachings and rely solely on pastors, prophets etc and lack the spirit of discernment.

Engineer1985:
...that's the second dead! Just read down.

RayPedra: I do not believe the writer is trying to say heaven and hell does not exist. He is rather of the opinion that people's faith is based on the existence of other people's testimonies on heaven and hell which shouldn't be the case because no one can tell if what they experienced is true or false but God and they themselves.

In summary, the word of God is true and most real than what ever man shall say to us and our belief and faith should lie in the word and God.

Profbrian: Lord have mercy... We need ur help down here.. Pls send the Holy Spirit upon all flesh here so that they might know that ure God.. Pour out ur Spirit upon the unbelieving souls that they may know that U alone are GOD... Jesus Christ pls have mercy and send down thy Grace....