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The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Reasons Why Tithing Is Irrelevant Under The New Covenant / What Is The New Covenant, And What Is The Old Covenant? / What Seem To Be The Difference Between The Old And New Covenant? (2) (3) (4)

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Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Goshen360(m): 6:42pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

If you looking for scripture where God including tithe in the covenant, you won't find any, grin
Jesus is Abraham's seed, and Jesus recognized tithing. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus recognized or commended the Pharisees for tithing. Tithing was the only thing they were doing right.

grin

You know what you doing, that's why you laughing. You can't show tithe was part of or included in the Abrahamic covenant because because there's no scripture like that. What that means is, you adding to what was written.

You pointed Christ quoting tithe in Matthew 23:23, that was tithe ACCORDING TO THE LAW. That was tithe COMMANDED, Abraham's tithe wasn't COMMANDED BUT VOLUNTARY. Besides, Abraham was pronounced blessed FIRST by melchi, then he gave. Today, preacher lie to church people that tithe and then God will bless you. You see the difference?

3. If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed is simply the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant - in you (Abraham) shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Meaning, Christ will come through the lineage of Abraham. That's the covenant fulfilled.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by defemz(m): 6:50pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs: ^^
Wicked copy and paste
grin

We are using our brains n scriptures, you go and do copy and paste. That's plagiarism and you are cheating

grin

Whether copy and paste or not, read the biblical backed writing and see the futility of selling something that has no biblical backing for a new testament christian whatsoever. The catch however for a new testament christian is that we are required to give more than 10%. we are required to give our all in love to God acknowledging him as the owner of all we have. This include your properties, money, time, skills etc. as may be required of us in the church. And such monies should be used to further Gods kingdom and to cater for the poor in the church so that there will be none that lack among us in the church. This is the biblical new testament giving in the early church.

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Candour(m): 6:54pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

Na wa o, Mal 4v4 is talking abt the law of moses which I told you is truncated. We aint under it, however, answer this, is tithing before d law or after?

BTW post 38 is Goshen's post..I always knew Candour and Goshen might be same folks.

grin you didn't ask a question in post 38 neither did Goshen. But if you mean post 39 with this question

"So what do you think? Dont you think its inconsistent
to only pick tithe out of all?"

Tithe is before d law..stop being redundant in questioning. I won't answer this again o

My bro, I answered all your questions and they are all up there. If my first post is not the 38th of this thread, then it might be 37th or 39th. It takes away nothing from the fact that all the questions you threw my way have been answered by me.

I asked you just one question and you have sadly closed your eyes to it.

Also, as per your insinuation that I'm Goshen, let me laugh at you grin Candour has even disagreed with Goshen on this same forum so I won't sweat over your accusation grin

My questions which you refused to answer is 'why do you reference Mal 3 to prove Abraham's tithe when you SURELY know Mal 3 clearly referenced MOSAIC LAW?'

You might refuse to answer it but am over happy we had this discussion because others will GI through this thread and learn a thing or two about their God and their bible. grin

I'll be waiting sha in case your spirit prompts you to reply

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Gombs(m): 7:13pm On Sep 08, 2013
Goshen360:

You know what you doing, that's why you laughing. You can't show tithe was part of or included in the Abrahamic covenant because because there's no scripture like that. What that means is, you adding to what was written.

You pointed Christ quoting tithe in Matthew 23:23, that was tithe ACCORDING TO THE LAW. That was tithe COMMANDED, Abraham's tithe wasn't COMMANDED BUT VOLUNTARY. Besides, Abraham was pronounced blessed FIRST by melchi, then he gave. Today, preacher lie to church people that tithe and then God will bless you. You see the difference?

3. If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed is simply the fulfillment of the Abrahamic covenant - in you (Abraham) shall all the families of the earth be blessed. Meaning, Christ will come through the lineage of Abraham. That's the covenant fulfilled.


Lol, I laff.
Quick quiz

1.who did Jacob learn tithing from?
2. Btw d 430 yrs of abraham's tithing and moses's law folks must have been tithing, no?
3.Did God make a tithing covenant with Jacob? Did Jacob give voluntarily?


Jesus saith these guys shd obey the scribes...why? Because the sat at the seat of moses...and ame Jesus saith he didn't come to abolish the law and the prophets...then what? He wasn't against tithing, for he knew abt abraham's tithe deed, he knew abt the law. In other words, did Jesus condemn tithing or commended it?

Preachers did not lie, God himself spoke those words. You shd be careful o. God himself said bring em tithes and he well cause a blessing...

Not he will cause a blessing and you'd bring tithes. And In case of abraham and melchizedek, Melchizedek blessed abraham and abraham gave a tenth. Has God blessed you? If yes, y aren't you giving a tenth? grin

See prov 3v9 NLT
New Living Translation
Honor the LORD with your wealth and with the best
part of everything you produce.

Abraham honored melchizedek with his increase after he was blessed by Melch. Now you shd honor God with your substance and increase (God's asking for a tenth, don't be stingy na) after he's blessed u

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by noblefada: 7:14pm On Sep 08, 2013
A very interesting thread, well done OP.
@bidam I know ur zealous but not according to knowledge, well it's quite worrisome that many xtians don't know the difference btw the old and new testaments, even after @goshen did a magnificent work, showing scriptures that prove this, some are still arguing.
@bidam I know u will that Paul was primarily responsible for gentiles receiving salvation, but a careful study of Paul's epistles will show that Paul never taught the early gentile xtians the law, they did not know about circumcision or tithing, Paul only started talking about the law when some Jewish xtians came to gentile church and started teaching the law, that's what the book of galatians is about.
2. tithe where never taught in NT, not by Jesus Christ nor the apostles.
Finally do u know that the law was not perfect that's why the law was not given directly by God nor was it inspired by Holy Spirit, but was rather ordain by Angels.

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by noblefada: 7:25pm On Sep 08, 2013
@gombs why don't just read the scriptures, one Abraham only paid tithe once, while he was still Abram, he did not pay it from his own possession, Isaac in Gen 26 was so richly blessed by God, but never paid tithe, Jacob actually gave God conditions for him to pay tithe, but there is no place in the scriptures where it was recorded he fulfilled this vow. Pls study my broad study

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Gombs(m): 7:38pm On Sep 08, 2013
Candour:

My questions which you refused to answer is 'why do you reference Mal 3 to prove Abraham's tithe when you SURELY know Mal 3 clearly referenced MOSAIC LAW?'


Did God speak what wa in Mal 3? Emphatically Yes

Was God refering to the Law of Moses? I can't say, but if he were, aw does that nullify d fact that Moses adopted tithing from Abraham?
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Gombs(m): 7:43pm On Sep 08, 2013
noblefada: @gombs why don't just read the scriptures, one Abraham only paid tithe once, while he was still Abram, he did not pay it from his own possession, Isaac in Gen 26 was so richly blessed by God, but never paid tithe, Jacob actually gave God conditions for him to pay tithe, but there is no place in the scriptures where it was recorded he fulfilled this vow. Pls study my broad study

grin

God!!!
I need a recess
Going over tithing every now and then is not wisdom. Believe wht you will...end of discussion

Cheers!

*unfollows thread

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Candour(m): 8:02pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

Did God speak what wa in Mal 3? Emphatically Yes

Was God refering to the Law of Moses? I can't say, but if he were, aw does that nullify d fact that Moses adopted tithing from Abraham?


My dear, let me help u. God Very CLEARLY referenced the law of Moses when he gave that message to Malachi.Start from Mal Chapter 1 and also pls spend sometime on Mal 4:4. You'll discover to your chagrin that The true form of the law was the focus of The whole of Malachi.

Also, pls and pls,if you say Moses copied tithing from Abraham, you just LIED BIG TIME. Abraham gave to a high priest, Isreal gave 10% to levites who then gave 10% of the 10% to the priests(Num 18:26-28,Neh 10:37-39) which means the priest actually got 1% of the tithes of Isreal.Also Abraham gave away the remaining 90% of the war spoils so why did Moses forget to include that part? And why are u not following that example since you say u follow Abraham's tithe?

My bro, I knew you'll unfollow the thread because all the premise you stood on were more unreliable than quicksand. Go study your bible more and I'm sure you'll find the truth.

If you're successful today,its because God showered favour on u and blessed your work,not because you gave your pastor 10%

Cheers

2 Likes

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Goshen360(m): 8:02pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

Did God speak what wa in Mal 3? Emphatically Yes

Was God refering to the Law of Moses? I can't say, but if he were, aw does that nullify d fact that Moses adopted tithing from Abraham?


grin grin grin shocked shocked shocked grin grin grin
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Anyi3(m): 8:04pm On Sep 08, 2013
Truth is I probably have a better chance understanding Patrick Obahiagbon than you peeps. I read this thread for 3 minutes and forgot the whole plot
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Goshen360(m): 8:17pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

grin

God!!!
I need a recess
Going over tithing every now and then is not wisdom. Believe wht you will...end of discussion

Cheers!

*unfollows thread

This one wey you my friend dey run leaf us now, I been wan ask you one simple and powerful kweshun o but how you go take answer if you unfollow thread naw? grin

Okay, make I ask anyway.

Abraham gave tithe once and you have no scripture the tithe he gave was commanded by God neither was it included in the covenant between him and God.

Now, I personally have paid tithe in the past UNCOUNTABLE TIMES, more than Abraham and it doesn't change anything, not making me richer or earn more or less.

Can you say by my uncountable tithes that I am a tither having tithe more than once unlike Abraham?
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by olad2020: 9:49pm On Sep 08, 2013
I was at work having a similar discussion as this when my colleague argued that a reputable man of God on TV said paying of tithe is obedience to God. My response was does that mean Jesus, the Apostles and early Christians disobeyed God because there's no record that they paid tithe(NOT TAX OH). Then he couldn't respond.
I just laughed because I used to be in his shoes.

Where I have a problem is our spiritual leaders teaching christians to tithe. They go as far as saying 'you are robbing God', 'God won't bless you if you don't tithe' (abeg did Jesus & his apostles rob God? were they cursed or blessed?). They should follow the examples of the Apostles and teach GIVING not TITHING(GIVING was the teaching and practise of the early church which is the model for the body of Christ to follow(don't you agree...)

I wonder why christians don't ask themselves questions like if tithing WAS AS IMPORTANT as other things stretched in the new testament such as The Holy spirit, Evangelism, Fellowship, Spiritual Gifts, Sin, Holy communion etc Do you think God would have MADE A BIG MISTAKE not to stress tithing in the NT(after all the gentiles who diidnt have the law would need to have been told but there was NO MENTION even to the gentiles).

A lot of people bring up what Jesus told the Pharisees in Matt but haven't we establish the fact that Jesus was speaking in context of the pharisees who were still under the was since Jesus had not yet been crucified.

TEACH GIVING CHRISTIANS NOT TITHING! Follow the MODEL of the early christians, it was made for a reason!
Peace.

3 Likes

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Goshen360(m): 10:11pm On Sep 08, 2013
We are returning to the SIMPLICITY OF THE GOSPEL OF GRACE and the APOSTOLIC DOCTRINES.

Thanks for partaking @ everyone!
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by truthislight: 10:13pm On Sep 08, 2013
deluckiest:

Hey Gombs, please take it easy on Goshen. If you know the scripture so well why don't you correct him like others have been doing with scriptures back up.

Peace!

Sharrap ! Deceit !
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 10:18pm On Sep 08, 2013
THEY ALL HAVE THEIR USES
THE OLD TESTAMENT (MALACHI PRECISELY)
PUTS MONEY IN THE PASTOR'S COFFERS

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by truthislight: 10:24pm On Sep 08, 2013
Gombs:

Shey you can't answer who's speaking in Mal 3? I referenced Mal 3 because. Of who was speaking...and I knw it wasn't malachi quoting the law, nor moses, nor the law of moses nor you.

From That, i deduced that you are saying that the bible was not inspired by God that we have to determine the writers befor concluding on the message.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by sylve11: 10:28pm On Sep 08, 2013
bookmarked! cool
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 10:47pm On Sep 08, 2013
This guy funny die.If you and others have shown me why would i be arguing in the first place? Levitical priesthood was changed to melchizedek priesthood. yes.

But don't forget priesthood remained then tithes retained.Go check the other thread i just did that after alot of searching.

According to Hebrews 7, Jesus is now our high priest according to Melchizedek's priesthood.

So how can you give to Jesus? Do you know why the very elect will not make heaven? This is why.

All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them from each other, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right side. But the goats he will put on his left. “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who will receive good things from my Father. Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world began. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked and you gave me clothes to wear. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ “Then those who are righteous will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or naked and give you clothes to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “Then the king will reply to them, ‘I assure you that when you have done it for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done it for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels. I was hungry and you didn’t give me food to eat. I was thirsty and you didn’t give me anything to drink. I was a stranger and you didn’t welcome me. I was naked and you didn’t give me clothes to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ "Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn’t do anything to help you?’ Then he will answer, ‘I assure you that when you haven’t done it for one of the least of these, you haven’t done it for me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life." (Matthew 25:32-46 CEB)

Give to Jesus your high priest by attending to the needy around you.
This is the way Jesus told us to give.
Churches today prioritize on the rich, rather on the poor.
All Jesus' teachings is fixated on the poor among you.
These days pastors take from the poor.

Even if you want to follow the old covenant of tithing, churches are doing it wrongly according to Deuteronomy 14:22-29. You are to take your ten percent and feast in the place The Lord your God has given unto you with your household. Don't forget the Levites though because they have no inheritance (pastors have inheritance today and are even richer than their congregation). They should join in the feasting. And you do this yearly, not monthly, or weekly.
After 3 years, that year's tithe should be shared among the Levites, the poor, the widows etc.
Churches do not preach this.
So if at all you want to tithe, it's best you do it well.

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 11:31pm On Sep 08, 2013
In addition to what I wrote, pastors today refer to themselves as Levites and explain it as them taking the place of priesthood today. (That is even a false doctrine on it's own because Jesus only has taken up the mantle of priesthood according to Hebrews 7, but I digress. Pastors are synonymous to Bishops in the bible not priests 1 Timothy 3 ) Remember The Levites were a tribe in Israel. Not everyone was a priest. According to wiki- these are the duties of a Levites, some are priests, some maintained the temple, some sang.

Kohath's son Amram was the father of Miriam, Aaron and Moses. The descendants of Aaron: the Kohanim ("Priests"wink, had the special role as priests in the Tabernacle in the wilderness and also in the Temple in Jerusalem. The remaining Levites (Levi'yim in Hebrew), divided into three groups (the descendants of Gershon, or Gershonites, the descendants of Kohath, or Kohathites, and the descendants of Merari, or Merarites) each filled different roles in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple services.

Levites' principal roles in the Temple included singing Psalms during Temple services, performing construction and maintenance for the Temple, serving as guards, and performing other services. Levites also served as teachers and judges, maintaining cities of refuge in Biblical times. The Book of Ezra reports that the Levites were responsible for the construction of the Second Temple and also translated and explained the Torah when it was publicly read.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levite

A biblical reference - Remember the Good Samaritan story, a priest passed the dying man, a Levite passed too, Luke 10:25-37. Why was there need to separate the priest from the levite? My point is Levites are not only priests. They are also people who maintain the temple, sing psalms. Just as we have today those who maintain the church, the socalled workers in the church etc.

Now if we are to apply this to today, Pastors who have assumed the position of so called priesthood, have hoarded tithes to themselves or rather the 'church' forgetting those who maintain the church, the choir, the security guard at the church gates. A lot of these people do not get paid. It shouldn't even be about getting paid. It's their right as today's Levites as our pastors preach. How many Christians have blessed that woman that comes to clean the bathrooms.

If you still insist on tithing even if I believe we are no more obliged to but to give to the poor and needy, then do it right.

Let the pastor share the tithes among the workers in the church.

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Luga2013: 8:43am On Sep 09, 2013
defemz: What many proponent of tithing fail to realize is that Jesus Christ lived in the old testament time when the new covenant had not taken effect. This is because he needed to shed his blood and resurrect before the new covenant could take effect. That is what he told peter saying

"And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "
please note here the church of Jesus was not built or established until his death and resurection. That was why he was speaking to pharisees that they may pay tithes because the new testament had not yet come into effect. Please everybody should note that the new covenant only came into effect after the crufixion and resurection of Jesus Christ. You will note that after Christ death and resurection was when his church was established. That was when the mode of giving changed. New testament Christians are to give willingly and not out of compulsion but cheerfully for God love a cheerful giver.

Absolutely true bro. Thanks for this post. God bless you.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by High247(m): 8:45am On Sep 09, 2013
Goshen360: Because of Christ's death, burial and resurrection, many thing changed as a result of His finished work and these are the revelation revealed to the Apostles, especially Paul - it was the revelation of the finished works and that is what the New Covenant is all about:

1. We are a new creature and were given a new nature of Christ and in Christ - Colosians 1: 13; 2 Corinthians 5:17.

2. For by one offering he has perfected forever them that are sanctified - Hebrews 10:14.

3. We are adopted - Romans 8:15; Gal.4:5

4. We are regenerated Titus 3:5

5. We were put in the body of Christ - 1 Cor. 12:13, Rom.6:1-10.

6. We were indwelt by the Spirit of God - 1 Cor. 3:16, 6:19.

7. We were sealed till the day he comes for us - 2 Cor.1:22; Ephesians 1:3-14, 4:30.

8. We were empowered for service Ephesians 5:18.

9. We have been delivered from the kingdom of darkness into light - Col.1:13; Heb.2:14-15. It is our inheritance. Many preachers teach deliverance for Christians but Christ had already delivered us!

10. We have been blessed with all spiritual blessings - Ephesians 1:3. Many are trying to DO SOMETHING e.g pay tithe so that windows of heaven can be opened to them, but by Christ's finished works, believers are already blessed. We give because we're already blessed as a result of the finished works not because we want to be bless.

11. His death was a propitiation. This means the wrath of God was satisfied. God the father poured out his anger and punishment against sin on his son - Romans 3:25

12. We were justified - Romans 5:9

13. We were made righteous and righteousness of God - 2 Corinthians 5:21. The one who had been MADE righteous shall only live by FAITH - Romans 1:17; 3:22.

14. We have been REDEEMED from the curses of the law and Christ was MADE A CURSE for us - Galatians 3:13. Those who preach or teach that Christians are under a curse simply do not understand the finished works and the better covenant. There's no curse for a new covenant believers who are in Christ, Christ had been MADE A CURSE for you and redeemED you from the curses of the law.

15. We were crucified with Christ (Gal.2:20) When he died the law died with him and so did we, Colossians 2:20-21. We were buried with him, Romans 6:4. We were made alive with him by his resurrection, Ephesians 2:5, Col.3:1. We were made joint heirs with Christ and will be glorified with him, Romans 8:17. His blood purchased us Romans 3:25; Ephesians 1:7.

The End
....my brother,u hv the revelation of the new creation,just let me correct something a bit on NO.15-the new man in christ is not the REDEEMED.No,he is a product of redemption.The redeemed died with christ and when Christ rose,a new man entirely different from the dead redeemed man came to existence..he is now born again,old things are passed away ..raised to a new kind of life-God kind of life aka ZOE...keep the fire burning bro until we all achieve the unity of faith in christ-the church!

1 Like

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Luga2013: 8:53am On Sep 09, 2013
stillwater: In addition to what I wrote, pastors today refer to themselves as Levites and explain it as them taking the place of priesthood today. (That is even a false doctrine on it's own because Jesus only has taken up the mantle of priesthood according to Hebrews 7, but I digress. Pastors are synonymous to Bishops in the bible not priests 1 Timothy 3 ) Remember The Levites were a tribe in Israel. Not everyone was a priest. According to wiki- these are the duties of a Levites, some are priests, some maintained the temple, some sang.

Kohath's son Amram was the father of Miriam, Aaron and Moses. The descendants of Aaron: the Kohanim ("Priests"wink, had the special role as priests in the Tabernacle in the wilderness and also in the Temple in Jerusalem. The remaining Levites (Levi'yim in Hebrew), divided into three groups (the descendants of Gershon, or Gershonites, the descendants of Kohath, or Kohathites, and the descendants of Merari, or Merarites) each filled different roles in the Tabernacle and later in the Temple services.

Levites' principal roles in the Temple included singing Psalms during Temple services, performing construction and maintenance for the Temple, serving as guards, and performing other services. Levites also served as teachers and judges, maintaining cities of refuge in Biblical times. The Book of Ezra reports that the Levites were responsible for the construction of the Second Temple and also translated and explained the Torah when it was publicly read.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levite

A biblical reference - Remember the Good Samaritan story, a priest passed the dying man, a Levite passed too, Luke 10:25-37. Why was there need to separate the priest from the levite? My point is Levites are not only priests. They are also people who maintain the temple, sing psalms. Just as we have today those who maintain the church, the socalled workers in the church etc.

Now if we are to apply this to today, Pastors who have assumed the position of so called priesthood, have hoarded tithes to themselves or rather the 'church' forgetting those who maintain the church, the choir, the security guard at the church gates. A lot of these people do not get paid. It shouldn't even be about getting paid. It's their right as today's Levites as our pastors preach. How many Christians have blessed that woman that comes to clean the bathrooms.

If you still insist on tithing even if I believe we are no more obliged to but to give to the poor and needy, then do it right.

Let the pastor share the tithes among the workers in the church.
I am so happy many people are knowing the truth eventually. We must continue to blow the trumpet until everybody is aware. Jesus himself emphasized giving to the poor. We must give regularly but it must not be out of compulsion or a threat of being cursed. God loves a cheerful giver. All pastors who emphasize tithing are but LOVERS OF MONEY.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Luga2013: 9:01am On Sep 09, 2013
stillwater:

According to Hebrews 7, Jesus is now our high priest according to Melchizedek's priesthood.

So how can you give to Jesus? Do you know why the very elect will not make heaven? This is why.

All the nations will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them from each other, just as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right side. But the goats he will put on his left. “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who will receive good things from my Father. Inherit the kingdom that was prepared for you before the world began. I was hungry and you gave me food to eat. I was thirsty and you gave me a drink. I was a stranger and you welcomed me. I was naked and you gave me clothes to wear. I was sick and you took care of me. I was in prison and you visited me.’ “Then those who are righteous will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you a drink? When did we see you as a stranger and welcome you, or naked and give you clothes to wear? When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ “Then the king will reply to them, ‘I assure you that when you have done it for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you have done it for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me, you who will receive terrible things. Go into the unending fire that has been prepared for the devil and his angels. I was hungry and you didn’t give me food to eat. I was thirsty and you didn’t give me anything to drink. I was a stranger and you didn’t welcome me. I was naked and you didn’t give me clothes to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’ "Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison and didn’t do anything to help you?’ Then he will answer, ‘I assure you that when you haven’t done it for one of the least of these, you haven’t done it for me.’ And they will go away into eternal punishment. But the righteous ones will go into eternal life." (Matthew 25:32-46 CEB)

Give to Jesus your high priest by attending to the needy around you.
This is the way Jesus told us to give.
Churches today prioritize on the rich, rather on the poor.
All Jesus' teachings is fixated on the poor among you.
These days pastors take from the poor.

Even if you want to follow the old covenant of tithing, churches are doing it wrongly according to Deuteronomy 14:22-29. You are to take your ten percent and feast in the place The Lord your God has given unto you with your household. Don't forget the Levites though because they have no inheritance (pastors have inheritance today and are even richer than their congregation). They should join in the feasting. And you do this yearly, not monthly, or weekly.
After 3 years, that year's tithe should be shared among the Levites, the poor, the widows etc.
Churches do not preach this.
So if at all you want to tithe, it's best you do it well.


You said it all. Thank you. You have really discovered the heart of God (Jesus) concerning giving.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by kunlejazz(m): 11:33am On Sep 09, 2013
Goshen360:

I don't understand what u driving at. My point is simply and clear. Christians have a new covenant and it's NOT the same as the old of which Malachi is part of the old. You live in a new country but trying to obey or follow the terms, conditions and laws of your birth country. Does that make any sense?

Heb. 8:7 says For if the first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for the second

Goshen, a faulty vehicle is not the same as a write-off. The Old testament/covenant developed faults starting with Adam's fall, it is NOT a write-off. Many parts of the OT is still very relevant today, particularly the prophets (Isaiah through Malachi).
Don't forget, it is in the prophets that we find majority of the prophecies about the birth of Jesus and the dispensation of the Holy spirit (Isa. 9, Joel 2:28).

Generally, the Old testament is a shadow - a kind/semblance/similitude of the New. So if your shadow has a leg, it means you also do have a leg only that it is more real/tangible, hence, If tithes were paid in the OT, the NT will require something much more sacrificial than the tithe. Thus it is reasonable to make the tithe the reference/lowest level below which a practitioner of the NT may not go.

Goshen,
Human philosophy, brain knowledge of the bible and all the study in the world can never give us Revelation of God's Word because the letter kills but the spirit gives life. We can only achieve this by the help of the Holy spirit.
Just a passer-by
God bless you

2 Likes

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Candour(m): 12:20pm On Sep 09, 2013
kunlejazz:

Heb. 8:7 says For if the first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for the second

Goshen, a faulty vehicle is not the same as a write-off. The Old testament/covenant developed faults starting with Adam's fall, it is NOT a write-off. Many parts of the OT is still very relevant today, particularly the prophets (Isaiah through Malachi).
Don't forget, it is in the prophets that we find majority of the prophecies about the birth of Jesus and the dispensation of the Holy spirit (Isa. 9, Joel 2:28).

@ the bolded, so what will you do to this particular faulty vehicle? will you repair it? what do understand God did with that particular faulty vehicle(covenant)? repair it? My bro, the apostle told you it had faults.God doesn't manage things, he is the perfect God and it was within his powers to change it and thats what he did.

The old testatment didn't start with Adam my bro, It started with Moses hence it's properly called the Mosaic covenant based on the law. The old testament is very relevant in that it shows us why we need a redeemer and it points us to that redeemer(Gal 3:24-25)



Generally, the Old testament is a shadow - a kind/semblance/similitude of the New. So if your shadow has a leg, it means you also do have a leg only that it is more real/tangible, hence, If tithes were paid in the OT, the NT will require something much more sacrificial than the tithe. Thus it is reasonable to make the tithe the reference/lowest level below which a practitioner of the NT may not go.

So how do you measure this leg that the body will have from the shadow? Let us even assume you are correct that Christians should pay Tithes or in your words 'a higher form of the OT tithes', which one should they adopt as yardstick? see the 3 variants we could choose from below

1.Abraham's voluntary giving of 10% of WAR SPOILS to Melchisedek(He refused to take the remaining 90% mind you)

or
2.the Yearly tithing which Isreali families are meant to share and eat in a feast at Jerusalem(Deut 14:22-26)

or
3.the tri-ennial tithing which isreal gave to the levites, widows, fatherless and strangers(Deut 14:28-29) and which the levite gave 10% of to the Priests(Num 18:26-30, Neh 10:37-38)

So which of the 3 should we improve upon?

Goshen,
Human philosophy, brain knowledge of the bible and all the study in the world can never give us Revelation of God's Word because the letter kills but the spirit gives life. We can only achieve this by the help od the Holy spirit.
Just a passer-by
God bless you

I believe this advice shouldn't be for Goshen alone but for you and i as well. Let us read the bible with the spirit guiding so that we can know how exactly to rightly divide the word of truth. Christ said if your right hand or eyes leads you to sin, cut it off. How much attention have you given to that injunction? we all need God to help us rightly divide the word of truth my bro.

I believe everybody is happy you passed by

God bless you
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 12:25pm On Sep 09, 2013
kunlejazz:

Heb. 8:7 says For if the first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for the second

Goshen, a faulty vehicle is not the same as a write-off. The Old testament/covenant developed faults starting with Adam's fall, it is NOT a write-off. Many parts of the OT is still very relevant today, particularly the prophets (Isaiah through Malachi).
Don't forget, it is in the prophets that we find majority of the prophecies about the birth of Jesus and the dispensation of the Holy spirit (Isa. 9, Joel 2:28).

Generally, the Old testament is a shadow - a kind/semblance/similitude of the New. So if your shadow has a leg, it means you also do have a leg only that it is more real/tangible, hence, If tithes were paid in the OT, the NT will require something much more sacrificial than the tithe. Thus it is reasonable to make the tithe the reference/lowest level below which a practitioner of the NT may not go.

Goshen,
Human philosophy, brain knowledge of the bible and all the study in the world can never give us Revelation of God's Word because the letter kills but the spirit gives life. We can only achieve this by the help od the Holy spirit.
Just a passer-by
God bless you
God bless you jare.You do have the mind of the Spirit. I decided to stop further comments so as to avoid unwarranted insults and attacks. God is helping me to stop quarreling about words which is actually of no value.May God help us all.
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Candour(m): 12:28pm On Sep 09, 2013
Bidam: God bless you jare.You do have the mind of the Spirit. I decided to stop further comments so as to avoid unwarranted insults and attacks. God is helping me to stop quarreling about words which is actually of no value.May God help us all.

@the bolded. I say Amen
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 12:36pm On Sep 09, 2013
@candour, What do you understand by spiritual significance of the feasts God instituted to the children of Israel?

If they are types and shadows what analogy can you draw as it's regards to the present day believer who is a spiritual Israelite?

I laff when you condemn men of God who have higher understanding of these revelations than you guys.Anyway don't even bother to reply.

We grow in grace.Peace
Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Candour(m): 12:45pm On Sep 09, 2013
Bidam: @candour, What do you understand by spiritual significance of the feasts God instituted to the children of Israel?

I dont know what your own interpretation is so maybe if i hear your own version, i'll know what to make of it.

If they are types and shadows what analogy can you draw as it's regards to the present day believer who is a spiritual Israelite?

same story Bidam. you and i have had plenty discussions on these things in time past and you've changed your positions countless times. even Joagbaje had to point out an error from you on the 'is tithe for Christians?' thread. So let me know where you stand presently so i can know what we're discussing.

I laff when you condemn men of God who have higher understanding of these revelations than you guys

I laugh @ you too when you toe this line. I never make any claims as to superior knowledge but the 'Berean' Christian in me refuses to swallow anything said by any man until i test it with the more sure word(my Bible)


Anyway don't even bother to reply.

The post was without any malice or insult so courtesy demands i reply and i just did.



We grow in grace.Peace

yeah my bro. we grow in grace and may God continually reveal to us as we search out his word

peace to you too

2 Likes

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by defemz(m): 12:57pm On Sep 09, 2013
Many Christians will never understand the full import of the work of salvation which was completed by the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ.

In Africa and most specifically Nigeria today, the hope of a better life for many people on earth here has been cleverly pinned on tithe by clever pastors. What many Nigerian Christians do not know is that tithing was never a part of the new testament church, and that the issue of tithing in the new testament crept back into the doctrine in the 1800s(19th century) in America .
Today in Nigeria and other parts of Africa, economy is bad, people are largely disillusioned, the hope of many dashed. Pentecostal Christianity, a largely materialistic variance of christian faith delude already frustrated people, giving them a false hope of God's blessing if they sow, vow and pay tithes. But the problem with this arrangement is that across all the pentecostal congregations, the pastors promising blessings to tithers are usually the most 'blessed'.
The poor and gullible middle class continue to pay tithe of their meagre earnings and the pastors continued to grow richer. The question some of the Nigerian Christians should begin to ask themselves is, why is it that in a large christian congregation, only the pastor and his family buy big things like the private jet etc etc. I can say categorically among the Nigerian pentecostal Christians, 90% of those who have private jets are the pastors! The remaining 10% are the super rich who most of the time acquire their jets before even coming to the church.

The bible say my people perish for lack of knowledge. The salvation work that Jesus did transcend materialism which is the hallmark of the present day church. The master himself says seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all other thing shall be added unto you. He also said it is impossible to serve God and mammon(money). Christianity in its most popular flavour now has lost its taste, but I believe the Lord is still preserving the remnant.

The good Lord will open our eyes of understanding in Jesus name.

3 Likes

Re: The Old Vs New Covenant - Revelation Of The New Covenant by Nobody: 1:19pm On Sep 09, 2013
Candour:




same story Bidam. you and i have had plenty discussions on these things in time past and you've changed your positions countless times. even Joagbaje had to point out an error from you on the 'is tithe for Christians?' thread. So let me know where you stand presently so i can know what we're discussing.

Sorry had to comment on this.Thank God you changed it to tithe for christian thread before i could comment. Moreso i still maintain my stand that without the patriarchs we can't be perfected.It is just like you having two legs and one leg is cut off.Can you walk with one leg? of cos you will hobble but not walk. The patriarchs showed us the way of faith which was an example we should emulate and follow.Though they did not obtain the promise.We who received the promise of the FATHER(Holy Spirit) are much more in a better advantageous position to run the race and finish it than they.Whichever way you look at it,they are still waiting for us to be made perfect and without them we can't also be perfect.That is what Paul called ONE BODY AND Christ is the head of that BODY while God is the head of Christ. I explained that in the tithe tread,well if you see it as error na you sabi. Maybe you will understand with time.

Asper changing positions,it might do you a whole lot of good to understand a writers post before jumping to conclusions.Could you kindly show me where i changed positions? If you can't then i will label this as a false accusation. Stay blessed.

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