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Serpentine Belt Failure - Car Talk - Nairaland

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Serpentine Belt Failure by jakigaga(m): 8:22am On Sep 18, 2013
A 2008 Toyota corolla belonging to a relative recently had a serpentine belt failure whilst they were travelling.I was called and I had the vehicle towed to my house.As i was only in town for the holidays,I had my mechanic access the car and I left town.He told her that the serpentine belt,top cylinder gasket and water pump will have to be replaced.Yesterday i got a call from her that someone else had come to check on the car and that a new engine had to be procured because the pistons where broken.I would appreciate if anyone has experience of that happening.The only way i see that happening is if the the temperatures in the combustion chamber got so high to cause brittle fracture.

PS:there was no tapping noise when the car was being towed.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 8:57am On Sep 18, 2013
Op,

Is like you are mixing things up. Serpentine belt is another name for auxiliary belt: belt that drives Alternator, PAS pump and A/C compressor pulleys via Crankshaft pulley.

Only failed Timing belt would cause such damage that would require such repair in the engine. So, which of the belt failed?

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by jakigaga(m): 9:32am On Sep 18, 2013
Ikenna It was the serpentine belt,I personally checked and it was shattered before towing the car.Like i said the guy that was called later is claiming the pistons are gone so,I want to know if the failure of the serpentine belt alone can cause such damage.Also what would cause the timing belt to fail?
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by lomomike(m): 12:06pm On Sep 18, 2013
Mr Poster, I must confess this is the first time I'm reading that a damaged serpentine belt caused such a damage. Pls sir conduct another careful check to know the parts damaged.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by smartchoice: 12:34pm On Sep 18, 2013
what are you saying? Ikenna is on point!


jakigaga: A 2008 Toyota corolla belonging to a relative recently had a serpentine belt failure whilst they were travelling.I was called and I had the vehicle towed to my house.As i was only in town for the holidays,I had my mechanic access the car and I left town.He told her that the serpentine belt,top cylinder gasket and water pump will have to be replaced.Yesterday i got a call from her that someone else had come to check on the car and that a new engine had to be procured because the pistons where broken.I would appreciate if anyone has experience of that happening.The only way i see that happening is if the the temperatures in the combustion chamber got so high to cause brittle fracture.

PS:there was no tapping noise when the car was being towed.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Longe Omolaja(m): 12:50pm On Sep 18, 2013
@ Jakigaga: serpertine belt should not cause such damage at all, but in any case, call ARS to help you examine the vehicle before you start spending fortune on what a penny can rectify 08063208131
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 1:23pm On Sep 18, 2013
Ikenna351: Op,

Is like you are mixing things up. Serpentine belt is another name for auxiliary belt: belt that drives Alternator, PAS pump and A/C compressor pulleys via Crankshaft pulley.

Only failed Timing belt would cause such damage that would require such repair in the engine. So, which of the belt failed?

Ikenna.

REALLY, How on earth is that possible? Please explain to us?

At OP. You may have to buy a new engine block. The overheating probably warped the cylinder head (the piston broke) or even cracked the block. They let the car run for too long after the belt ripped.

Sorry dude but i would recommend a new block
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 1:23pm On Sep 18, 2013
Let me make it clearer for Op,

Engine will run and the car will still move if the auxiliary belt belts. Only issue will be: if the belt drives PAS pump, the steering wheel will be very heavy to steer since the pump has stopped spinning; if the A/C compressor pulley is belt driven, the A/C won't work, unless its electrically driven compressor ; finally, the battery power will start dropping as long as the engine is running, since the Alternator is no longer spinning.

So, again, which of the belt broke?

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 1:28pm On Sep 18, 2013
icemann:

REALLY, How on earth is that possible? Please explain to us?

At OP. You may have to buy a new engine block. The overheating probably warped the cylinder head (the piston broke) or even cracked the block. They let the car run for too long after the belt ripped.

Sorry dude but i would recommend a new block

Hope you understand what you are saying? Newer engines water pump are driven by Timing belt, not the auxiliary belt like in the older cars. Unless you want to tell me the 2008 Toyota engine in that car has an old engine set up?

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 1:36pm On Sep 18, 2013
Ikenna351:

Hope you understand what you are saying? Newer engines water pump are driven by Timing belt, not the auxiliary belt like in the older cars. Unless you want to tell me the 2008 Toyota engine in that car has an old engine set up?

Ikenna.

The car is chain driven. so are you still calling it belt or chain?
I am sure the Mech and owner can differentiate between a belt and chain

It wasn't the OP's Car so i guess he didn't have the full story
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by ZIM DRILL(m): 3:09pm On Sep 18, 2013
icemann:

The car is chain driven. so are you still calling it belt or chain?
I am sure the Mech and owner can differentiate between a belt and chain

I wasn't the OP's Car so i guess he didn't have the full story

it doesn't matter whether you call it timing belt or chain, they still the same job the only difference is what there are made of timing chain is chain made of steel and belt made of rubber

but the question is whether the auxiliary belt can cause pistol and valves damage the answer is no also unless the owner is confusing between timing chain/timing belt (depends on car and model) and auxiliary belt

there is also confusion in the original post
He told her that the serpentine belt,top cylinder gasket and water pump will have to be replaced.


unless he guy is lying and is trying just to squeeze more on the gasket and water pump when is only supposed to change the auxiliary belt/serpentine belt
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by jakigaga(m): 3:40pm On Sep 18, 2013
Guys let me make my self clear
1. I examined the car and the serpentine belt had shattered only a little bit was left on the pulleys.
2. From my mechanics assessment the serpentine belt as well as the water pump and top cylinder gasket will have to be replaced.The water pump he is not very sure of
3. The 2008 Toyota corolla has a serpentine belt that runs the auxiliary systems.As well as a timing chain which drives the cam shaft
4. The owner of the car called her own mechanic who claims the Engine is gone because the pistons are broken.
5.My question is Does anyone in this forum have experience of serpentine belt failure causing engine knocking.

Discuss and revert

http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7690/~/does-my-vehicle-have-a-timing-belt-or-timing-chain%3F

1 Like

Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 4:04pm On Sep 18, 2013
jakigaga: Guys let me make my self clear
1. I examined the car and the serpentine belt had shattered only a little bit was left on the pulleys.
2. From my mechanics assessment the serpentine belt as well as the water pump and top cylinder gasket will have to be replaced.The water pump he is not very sure of
3. The 2008 Toyota corolla has a serpentine belt that runs the auxiliary systems.As well as a timing chain which drives the cam shaft
4. The owner of the car called her own mechanic who claims the Engine is gone because the pistons are broken.
5.My question is Does anyone in this forum have experience of serpentine belt failure causing engine knocking.

Discuss and revert

http://toyota.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/7690/~/does-my-vehicle-have-a-timing-belt-or-timing-chain%3F

The question should start like this:


1. Does the auxiliary belt of that engine drives water pump as well?

If we can get the above question answered, then the issue of whether the car overheated or not will then be addressed. Because even if the engine is an interference one, the auxiliary belt has nothing to do with the camshaft, intake and exhaust valves driven by either timing belt or chain which could damage pistons if failed.

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by jakigaga(m): 4:36pm On Sep 18, 2013
ikenna yes it does.It’s called a serpentine belt because it snakes around and powers your power steering, air conditioner, water pump, and alternator

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/l/bldef_728a.htm
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 6:28pm On Sep 18, 2013
jakigaga: ikenna yes it does.It’s called a serpentine belt because it snakes around and powers your power steering, air conditioner, water pump, and alternator

http://autorepair.about.com/cs/generalinfo/l/bldef_728a.htm

Peugeot calls in Auxiliary belt, while some calls it serpentine belt. They mean the same thing. French calls theirs "Servo", while Americans call it brake booster. Likewise, Peugeot calls theirs "ECU", while some brands call theirs ECM or PCM. All mean the same thing.

Not all Auxiliary belt drives water pump. Most cars with timing belt have water pump driven by the timing belt, while engines with timing chains, especially with timing chain have their water pump driven by the Auxiliary belt.

My ES9J4S water pump is driven by timing belt, not auxiliary belt. My ZN3J water pump is driven by Auxiliary/Alternator belt. The camshaft is timing chain driven.

Since you are saying the auxiliary /serpentine belt drives the car in question water pump, its likely that the engine overheated. But that does not call for water pump replacement. If the WP (water pump) still spin freely when turned with hand and the bearing is not shaking or dragging, wetin concernWP with the belt that broke? Is the WP leaking coolant?

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 6:30pm On Sep 18, 2013
ZIM DRILL:

it doesn't matter whether you call it timing belt or chain, they still the same job the only difference is what there are made of timing chain is chain made of steel and belt made of rubber

but the question is whether the auxiliary belt can cause pistol and valves damage the answer is no also unless the owner is confusing between timing chain/timing belt (depends on car and model) and auxiliary belt

there is also confusion in the original post
He told her that the serpentine belt,top cylinder gasket and water pump will have to be replaced.


unless he guy is lying and is trying just to squeeze more on the gasket and water pump when is only supposed to change the auxiliary belt/serpentine belt


The answer to your question is YES
And i explain= When the belt ripped, the battery was powering the ECU and the car kept on going. With out an ACTIVE water pump and i guess the belt broke the fan (Happened to a friend) Your car will over heat. To make the scenario worse if the car was idling in the same spot it wouldn't take long to over heat in this hot summer.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 6:45pm On Sep 18, 2013
Ikenna351:

Peugeot calls in Auxiliary belt, while some calls it serpentine belt. They mean the same thing. French calls theirs "Servo", while Americans call it brake booster. Likewise, Peugeot calls theirs "ECU", while some brands call theirs ECM or PCM. All mean the same thing.

Not all Auxiliary belt drives water pump. Most cars with timing belt have water pump driven by the timing belt, while engines with timing chains, especially with timing chain have their water pump driven by the Auxiliary belt.

My ES9J4S water pump is driven by timing belt, not auxiliary belt. My ZN3J water pump is driven by Auxiliary/Alternator belt. The camshaft is timing chain driven.

Since you are saying the auxiliary /serpentine belt drives the car in question water pump, its likely that the engine overheated. But that does not call for water pump replacement. If the WP (water pump) still spin freely when turned with hand and the bearing is not shaking or dragging, wetin concernWP with the belt that broke? Is the WP leaking coolant?

Ikenna.




icemann:

The car is chain driven. so are you still calling it belt or chain?
I am sure the Mech and owner can differentiate between a belt and chain

It wasn't the OP's Car so i guess he didn't have the full story



That is Why i sad "It is chain driven".

Ikenna351 you are an auto guru you should know this.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 7:23pm On Sep 18, 2013
icemann:








That is Why i sad "It is chain driven".

Ikenna351 you are an auto guru you should know this.

Is like you are out to look for my trouble.

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 7:33pm On Sep 18, 2013
Bro no now. I don't look for trouble and you are nice guy ,..,..,..well so far wink wink.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by sultaan(m): 8:06pm On Sep 18, 2013
The question you should ask the driver is long he kept driving after the steering got stiff..All you might need to do is to check all bearings and change the tensioner
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by ZIM DRILL(m): 8:50pm On Sep 18, 2013
icemann:


The answer to your question is YES
And i explain= When the belt ripped, the battery was powering the ECU and the car kept on going. With out an ACTIVE water pump and i guess the belt broke the fan (Happened to a friend) Your car will over heat. To make the scenario worse if the car was idling in the same spot it wouldn't take long to over heat in this hot summer.

before it even overheat you should feel that the steering has become too hard and battery sign should come on as the alternator wont be charging
so the question is what sort o driver ignores those two
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by icemann: 9:55pm On Sep 18, 2013
jakigaga: A 2008 Toyota corolla belonging to a relative recently had a serpentine belt failure whilst they were travelling.I was called and I had the vehicle towed to my house.As i was only in town for the holidays,I had my mechanic access the car and I left town.He told her that the serpentine belt,top cylinder gasket and water pump will have to be replaced.Yesterday i got a call from her that someone else had come to check on the car and that a new engine had to be procured because the pistons where broken.I would appreciate if anyone has experience of that happening.The only way i see that happening is if the the temperatures in the combustion chamber got so high to cause brittle fracture.

PS:there was no tapping noise when the car was being towed.


^^^A female driver. Not that i am sexist but we all know most female are not into cars like males
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by jakigaga(m): 9:29am On Sep 19, 2013
@ Icemann the driver is male ooh. The guy just kept on driving until the car stopped they were lucky they were just about 20 km away from town.Sad cry .
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by ZIM DRILL(m): 9:36am On Sep 19, 2013
jakigaga: @ Icemann the driver is male ooh. The guy just kept on driving until the car stopped they were lucky they were just about 20 km away from town.Sad cry .

so it was the serpentine belt/ Auxiliary/Alternator belt

if it was the timing belt/chain the car would have not drove
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by Ikenna351(m): 11:00am On Sep 19, 2013
jakigaga: @ Icemann the driver is male ooh. The guy just kept on driving until the car stopped they were lucky they were just about 20 km away from town.Sad cry .

A typical Nigerian man, who as far as a car is still moving, it has no problem. Because he cannot tell me that he didn't see the battery drain sign on the instrument cluster when the belt broke or slipped off, even if the PAS pump is electrically driven.

Besides, an overheating engine will give one various signs of overheating before it finally stops running, even if the temp guage on the cluster is not functioning. A sound of an engine overheating is enough to tell one what is happening to the engine without the help of temp guage. Even the acceleration will tell. But he chose to keep driving to the point of damaging the engine to that extent (if truly the engine overheated and damaged the head gasket and cylinder head), after all, Toyota no dey fail.

Ikenna.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by MightyThor(m): 12:18pm On Sep 19, 2013
Well my own observation is that the Op was not very clear in his description of the matter, it is even reading in between the line of his latter post can you now guess where he is leading to. From what i can gather the driver is either inexperienced or is simply careless, else you would have noticed the slight stiffening of the wheels, this will be more pronounced if the car slows to a crawl and you try to turn the wheels. if he had the AC ON he could not have missed the tell-tail sign of hot air coming from the vent, and there is the battery indicator and the temperature indicator in the dash board (though most driver rarely glance at the dash while driving) he can be forgiven for missing that.

And there is the initial sound of knocking when you accelerate, this occurs as the engine gets hotter and the oil thins out, closely followed by steam from the bonnet. If he missed all these signs and keep on driving then you are sure to have bent valves, crack cylinder head, burnt top gasket or even engine block (aluminum engine block) in some cases.

The driver does not deserve to drive if this actually happened, except he is a learner, a woman or just a wicked guy.

@ikenna keep your cool,your a leader here so expect to be picked on once in while for no apparent reason. by the way your are doing a great job here and do limit the number of tread that make it to front page to avoid those crazy member polluting this section.
Re: Serpentine Belt Failure by MightyThor(m): 12:18pm On Sep 19, 2013
Well my own observation is that the Op was not very clear in his description of the matter, it is even reading in between the line of his latter post can you now guess where he is leading to. From what i can gather the driver is either inexperienced or is simply careless, else you would have noticed the slight stiffening of the wheels, this will be more pronounced if the car slows to a crawl and you try to turn the wheels. if he had the AC ON he could not have missed the tell-tail sign of hot air coming from the vent, and there is the battery indicator and the temperature indicator in the dash board (though most driver rarely glance at the dash while driving) he can be forgiven for missing that.

And there is the initial sound of knocking when you accelerate, this occurs as the engine gets hotter and the oil thins out, closely followed by steam from the bonnet. If he missed all these signs and keep on driving then you are sure to have bent valves, crack cylinder head, burnt top gasket or even engine block (aluminum engine block) in some cases.

The driver does not deserve to drive if this actually happened, except he is a learner, a woman or just a wicked guy.

@ikenna keep your cool,your a leader here so expect to be picked on once in while for no apparent reason. by the way your are doing a great job here and do limit the number of tread that make it to front page to avoid those crazy member polluting this section.

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