So many have been said concerning the greatest uncle
of the holy prophet (saws). Nobody questions his dear
and profound love for the holy prophet (saws)!
Nobody questions his sagacity and unmatched sacrifice
financially, socially and morally for the holy prophet
and 'baby' Islam during his lifetime!
However,
"Narrated Al-Musaiyab:
When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went
to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him.
The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right
to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will
defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and
'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave
the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they
kept on saying this to him so that the last
statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am
on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet
said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for
you unless I am forbidden to do so."
Then the following Verse was revealed:--
"It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask
Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were
their near relatives, after it has become clear to them
that they are the dwellers of the
(Hell) Fire." ( 9.113)
The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!)
Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides
whom He will ......." ( 28.56)
(Sahih Bukhari 5.223. also Sahih Bukhari 2.442, Sahih
Bukhari 6.197, Sahih Bukhari 6.295)
(Alas!) His belief was put into scrutiny and under
microscope as a result of the above report in the Ahl
Sunna's 'most' authentic hadith collection; sahih al-
bukhari and some other books.
The fact that there's never a single hadith from Rasul
which ordered us to believe every single details of
'sahih al-bukhari', the fact that even ahl sunna can
never beat their chest and openly tell the whole world
that sahih al-bukhari is 100% authentic like Qur'an; yet
'certain muslims groups' never even think twice or
dissect the veracity of the hadith (or similar hadith)
before labeling the dear uncle of the holy prophet
(saws), Abu Talib, a KAFIR! Little wonder when they
equally label the holy prophet's parents as inhabitants
of hell-fire.
REFUTATIONS:
Whoever fabricated this (or such) hadith erred and
certainly Allah does not love fabricators.
1. Abu Talib died 2 or 3years before Hijrah; meaning
the holy prophet (saws) have spent 9 or 10years in
Mecca as a prophet before migration to Medina.
One of the very earliest meccan sura was Sura Najm vs
29, in which Allah warned His prophet:
"Therefore WITHDRAW (O Muhammad SAW) from him
who turns away from Our Reminder (this Quran) and
desires nothing but the life of this world."
Why hasn't the holy prophet (saws) dissociate himself
from Abu Talib if truly he was a Kafir?
Are you suspecting your prophet (saws) he has defied
his Lord's command?
On the contrary, history had it he defended Muhammad
with his life and only him provided shelter for him in
"Sha'ib Abi talib" where they stayed together with
handful newly converts (muslims) for nearly three
years when the Mushrikin boycotted the holy prophet
and the life of the holy prophet and Islam were in
jeopardy.
2. According to the hadith, ayat no. 113 of surah Tawba
was revealed to that effect of 'disbelieve' of Abu Talib.
This was a blatant lie! Surah Tawba (ch. 9) was
revealed in Madina around 12 or 13 years after the
demise of Abu Talib!
Was the ayat revealed because of him in his grave?
As per 2nd Ayat: there's a tradition in Sunan al-
Tirmidhi, footnote, vol. 2 p. 96 which state that the ayat
was revealed when the holy prophet (saws) wanted
Harith ibn al-Nu'man to embrace Islam and he
remained hesitant to accept the new creed.
Another tradition says it was revealed during the battle
of uhud when prophet's tooth was broken and he
exclaimed: 'O Allah! Guide these ignorant people. "
A'isha's version suggested the ayat was revealed 3 or 4
years after the demise of Abu Talib while battle of Uhud
wa fought in the year 3H; that is 6years after the death
of Abu Talib.
3. According to the hadith, he (Abu Talib) declared he'd
die on the 'religion of Abdul Muttalib'!
What was the religion of Abdul muttalib, the custodian
of ka'aba, the one who took pride in having prophet
Ibrahim Hanif as his ancestor, the one who named our
prophet 'MUHAMMAD' and recited his birth Khutbah,
the revival of the 'lost' and 'forgotten' Zamzam, the
one whose words ("THE LORD OF KA'ABA WILL SURELY
PROTECT HIS HOUSE..." put to shame the army of
Abraha (sura Fil)?
4. How was it possible for a 'Kafir', Abu Talib, to
arranged the wedding and recited the wedding khutba
of a prophet of God(with khadijah)?
Are you suspecting your prophet (saws) too?
5. Abu Talib knew before the appointment of
Muhammad as a prophet of God that he's (saws) the
seal of the prophet. Remember a period when he took
young Muhammad (saws) on a business trip and they
met a monk who saw the sign of the last prophet in the
young Muhammad. The monk informed Abu Talib and
urged him to protect Muhammad with his life.
6. Prior or after the above mentioned incidence; Abu
Talib had used young Muhammad as a wasila
(intercessor) to God for the provision of Rain (see sahih
al-Bukhari vol 2 p122)! Can a kafir does that?
7. Believers are not allowed to inherit properties of
Kufar (unbelievers)! Why were Ali and Talib inherited
their father's properties with the approval of Rasul
(saws)?
(See: ( Sahih Bukhari 5.579 & Malik's Muwatta
27.27.12.10)
8. Why did the holy prophet (saws) not dissolve the
marriage of Fatima bint Assad (Abu Talib's wife and
mother of Ali), a known early Mu'mina, and Abu Talib, if
he was a kafir?
A mu'min is not allowed to mary or continue marriage
union with a kafir.
9. This tradition is a contradiction of a tradition which
states that Abu Talib, in the throes of death, moved his
lips and utter 'kalima'. Abul-Fida wrote:
"When Abu Talib's time of death approached, he moved
his lips. Al-Abbas moved towards him and then said to
the prophet (saws), 'O son of my brother! Abu Talib has
recited the kalima that you wanted him to recite; The
prophet said: "Thanks to Allah for He guided you".
~Tarikh Abul-Fida, Vol. 1 p 120.
10. Some narrators of these hadiths like Ibn Abbas (R),
Abu hurayrah, Musaiyab et al were not either credible
or reliable.
Ibn Abbas was reliable but not credible. Why? He was
either in his mother's womb or still sucking his
mother's breast when the incident happened! He was
born 3years before Hijrah.
Abu Hurayrah? He was not even in mecca at all. He
accepted Islam around 2 and half years before the
demise of the holy prophet in medina.
Okay they might have heard it from someone! Who was
that 'someone'? Until the identity of that 'someone' is
proven, its not possible to accept such hadith.
Ibn Hajar in 'Tahdhib al-Tahdhib' writes that Musayyab
Only quote from Abu sufyan ibn Harb and his own
father; and he is quoted only by his son.
WHY WAS ABU TALIB MUTE
Remember just like:
"...a believing man of Fir'aun's (Pharaoh) family, who
HID HIS FAITH..." ~Q. Ch 40 vs 28.
It is evident he (Abu Talib) needed to hid his faith to
protect Muhammad and cradle Islam from the
mushrikin (this was the explanation of the Imams of
household of the prophet) who might impose a fierce
sanction (more than that of Sha'ib Abi Talib) and
prosecution against the holy prophet (saws), his family,
followers and Islam. The respect he commanded during
his life-time continued after his death to certain
degree, because of him the holy prophet (saws)
enjoyed his freedom (before) the quraish eventually
turned against him (saws).
CONCLUSION
We (shi'a) believe the state of Nubuwah and Imamat
are such a pure state that can never come through
impure ancestors.
Shi'a believe Abu Talib was a true Mu'min who only
needed to hid is faith to protect Rasul and Islam. We
believe these purported hadiths were the handi-works
of Banu Umayah, the avowed enemy of Muhammad
and his ahl al-bayt who only try to degrade the
ancestors of Banu Hashim.

Wa Salam Alaykum

When we say shi'ates mistranslate the Qur'an and hadeth, they cry foul. you dont need me to tell you why nobody commented on your thread

@Sheyikul islam,
Comment? If that is what you can only think of in this article then you are mistaken. Some of your like have even accuse me of writting long articles and nobody seem interested, he claimed. Prophet Noah (a.s) preached for 950years yet nobody seem interested. Who am I to seek followership or comments? And do you think until people comment that's an indication it has been read or understood?
If only ONE person read and understand, its better in the sight of Allah than bunch of ignorants who reads to criticize.

If you have any issue on Abu Talib (R) whom your 'sheikh' called kafir, bring it to the fore otherwise bury it till eternity. Allah is enough as the disposer of all affairs.

Indeed you are a "sheyikul islam".

Allahu allam.. its beyond our knowledge. Let Allah judge him as whatever He pleases to

@ al baqir did u read the hadith where Abu talib meet the prophet and say to him "give up this message and we will give u the wealth of arabia and the prophet answered ' o my uncle if u put the sun on my right hand and the moon on my left hand i will never give up this message till i die' ". So my question to al baqir is can a 'muslim' tell the prophet to give up his message for wealth? Pls answer reasonably

Shyeikul islam1: @ al baqir did u read the hadith where Abu talib meet the prophet and say to him "give up this message and we will give u the wealth of arabia and the prophet answered ' o my uncle if u put the sun on my right hand and the moon on my left hand i will never give up this message till i die' ". So my question to al baqir is can a 'muslim' tell the prophet to give up his message for wealth? Pls answer reasonably

Seriously when sometimes i read comments like the above,i feel like breaking my screen with a hard punch.

You believe abu sufyan who fought the Prophet (sa) for 23 years became a muslim,but you brought a hadith purported from the time the Prophet (sa) commenced his prophetic ministry to convince us that Abu Talib,the chief of the believers,died a kaffir! Amazingly you didnt mention to us two facts:

1. That in the time of the hanifs of makkah,rejecting the prophethood of Muhammad (sa) did not render one a kaffir or brings Abu Talib (as) to the position of your dear sahaba like abu bakr,umar,usthman,abu hurayrah etc who were all idol worshippers performing shirk.

2. This same Abu Talib (as) who tested the courage and conviction of the Prophet (sa) went ahead to protect the Prophet (sa) and help his mission even when Quraysh boycotted him and the hashmites and made them suffer economically.now compare the stances of Abu Talib (as) to that of Abu Lahab,another uncle of the Prophet (sa),and tell us that Abu Talib (as) was on the same path as Abu Lahab who even wanted the Prophet (sa) dead.you will sound ridiculous!

To cut the story short,Abu Talib (as) was made a "kaffir" ,by the fabrication machines of the Ummayyads and Muawiya,because Abu Talib (as) is the father of Ali Ibn Abi Talib (as).this is the same Muawiya who institued the cursing and insulting of Imam Ali (as) on the pulpits of mosques from 40 years.and of course Muawiya's father,Abu sufyan who fought the Prophet (sa) and was the head of the enemies of Islam,was re-invented as someone who repented and embraced Islam and is now considered by Sunnis as one of the "sahaba"! By all account abu sufyan never accepted Islam-but only outwardly as evidence support.even outwardly he was obliged to,after his humiliating defeats and the conquest of Makkah and re-dedication of the holy Ka'ba for the worship of Allah (swt). This is the gist of the story.ibn taymiyyah only happened to follow the ummayyad legacy and therefore a great Nasibi who hated especially Imam Ali (as) and his sons (as).his writings would reveal that if you research.

@ lagos shia yes punch the screen after that answer my question. Which 'muslim' would implore the messenger to give up his message? I wasted my time reading what you wrote. The best way to have a healthy argument is to answer the question, simple

Shyeikul islam1: @ lagos shia yes punch the screen after that answer my question. Which 'muslim' would implore the messenger to give up his message? I wasted my time reading what you wrote. The best way to have a healthy argument is to answer the question, simple

I doubt you read what i typed.and if you did,you obviously have not understood.

Abu Talib (as) was a hanif.in other words he was a monotheist.the hanifs are "pre-islamic muslims".they lived in arabia following the path of their ancestor,Prophet Ibrahim (as).they never committed shirk or idol worship.the hanifs are praised in the Holy Quran.therefore being a hanif who did not know or accept,or who doubted the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (sa) did not make the person a mushrik.

Let us even go further.let us say Abu Talib (as) was a mushrik (astaghfirullah) and he questioned or doubted the prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (sa).can we therefore say based on that that Abu Talib (as) died on disbelief? All evidence point out that he protected the divine messenger and the person of the Messenger of Allah (sa),and that he also struggled for his cause and died on imaan.

It is really shocking that people like you are so sure and adamant that Abu Talib (as) died an unbeliever,but would leave no stone unturned to argue that Yazid (son of Muawiya) who beheaded the grandson of Prophet Muhammad (sa) as revenge on the Prophet (sa) for Badr and openly questioned the divine revelations-i.e. Imam Hussain (as)- could have "repented".it is outright confusion,ignorance and hypocrisy.follow the path of the Quran and the Ahlul-Bayt (as),for that is the "Ark of Salvation" according to the Prophet (sa).

I am left wondering. Are you sure you studied islam.

@Sheyikul islam,
Straight to your so-called question:
The shuyub (elders) of Quraish of whom Abu Talib was among and their sheikh, called Abu Talib being the protector of Muhammad (saws) and asked him to conveyed those message. It was never Abu Talib that concocted such question or message as you have claimed (see Tarikh Tabari and Ansab al-ashraf).
Al-hamdulillah that many of ahl sunna scholars are now coming to terms on Abu Talib only the hard-heartened salafi/Wahabi remains.

@LagosShia,
I feel your pain dear brother. But you can only take it easy on them. Remember most of us were like them before arguing blindly without any sort of reasonable evidence until Allah saved us when we embark upon the 'Ark of Noah'.

You did not mention the ahl sunnah scholars?

@Sheyikul islam,
Is it of any use to you? Are you also doing taqlid in the case of Hazrat Abu Talib?

@Lagoshia, AlBaqir, I love you people may Almighty Allah strenghten you.

@LAZAREY,
Thanks bro.
However Love everyone dear brother for only in that we can communicate and understand each other.
May we be among those who Allah love.

Re: AlBakir, "...We (shi'a) believe the state of Nubuwah and Imamat are such a pure state that can never come through inpure ancestors..."
You said nubuwah can never come through inpure ancestors, thereby quoting baseless points to defend his (the prophet's uncle) iman.
My question is how many of his fathers and fore-fathers before him will you have to defend with you hadith? How about the parent and ancestors of prophet Ibrahim (alayhi salam)?

MuhammedJamiuAde:
Re: Shyeikulislam1, "...We (shi'a) believe the state of Nubuwah and Imamat are such a pure state that can never come through inpure ancestors..."
You said nubuwah can never come through inpure ancestors, thereby quoting baseless points to defend his (the prophet's uncle) iman.
My question is how many of his fathers and fore-fathers before him will you have to defend with you hadith? How about the parent and ancestors of prophet Ibrahim (alayhi salam)?

abu talib died a kafir

Fundamentalist:


abu talib died a kafir

That's not a surprise from your school of thought. The fact that you even render the blessed parents of the holy Prophet as Kuffar based on weird and pathetic hadith in your book.

# Same applies to Hazrat Abu Talib. Your school also has a pathetic hadith to label him a kafir.

EYE OPENER
You can read the abovementioned Hadith about Abu Talib here in sahih Bukhari: https://sunnah.com/bukhari/23/114

This Hadith is nothing but a forged hadith. And anything forged always leaves loopholes. The Hadith made reference to Quran 9:113 being revealed because of Abu Talib when the Prophet promised to keep on asking Allah's forgiveness for him.

# For a fact, Surah tawbah (Qur'an chapter 9) was revealed in Madinah after the battle of Tabuk in the 8/9 A.H (that is 1 or 2 years to the death of the Prophet). Whereas Abu Talib had died 12 or 13 years in Makkah ever before the ayah was revealed.

# In fact the point that the Hadith says Abu Talib said "he was on the religion of `Abdul Muttalib" clearly proved he was a believer (who only had to hide his faith because of the presence of his Mushriqun cousins). For a fact he was not a kafir. Abdul Muttalib (whose religion Abu Talib claimed to be following) was never an idolator. He was a believer in God, an Hanif.

Laughing.. This morning horror show