Goshen360:

Then you should know that Grace is not a continuation to obey the Mosaic law. NO?

Mosaic law- as in trying to follow the written codes of Moses to get right with God?

Let no one turn this to a grace thread. I want to believe this is not what the OP intended.
The simple truth is while grace was not available for us till Christ died, Christ manifested grace. Thats why the verse 16 and 17 of the gospel of John were penned even before he died. Christ lived during the period of the law, but did not teach the law. Christ lived during the era of the law but did not let the law mould his actions.

idnoble135:
Did Jesus manifest grace on earth or not? Read a bit of my comment on candour's reply.

Lolz. Maybe I'm getting you wrong or something you not saying clearly. Grace is the term of agreement under the New Covenant. Unlike the Law, which was the term of agreement under the Mosaic or Old Covenant. Jesus manifested Grace while on earth but it wasn't ratified in the New Covenant yet. That's why it was Grace IN THE MIDST of the Law.

idnoble135:
Mosaic law- as in trying to follow the written codes of Moses to get right with God?

Yes, and for the REST of ALL its commandments, ordinances, rules and regulations.

lol....
Grace in the midst of the law? That seems to expatiate on what i'm trying to say.
Right then, Christ was already manifesting it.

idnoble135:
then all the teachings Jesus ever gave before the cross were for the Jews since He already declared that He was sent to the lost house of israel right?
See confusion!

A VERY BIG YES, but his death brought us in, and he then said in Mat28. "go ye to ALL the world and make diciples of all nations...." b4 dat in Mat 10 he said "go ye not into the way of the gentile....." without the death of Jesus, even God did nt recognize us, bible said, we were not a people n we had no God in d world..

Goshen360:

Yes, and for the REST of ALL its commandments, ordinances, rules and regulations.

lol.... Interesting. Yes pls.
Hope i can keep up the steam, its getting late.

idnoble135: @Christembassy,

This is interesting.
Jesus lived and taught under the old testament. Does that mean His teachings were old testament teachings?

christemmbassey: A VERY BIG YES , but his death brought us in, and he then said in Mat28. "go ye to ALL the world and make diciples of all nations...." b4 dat in Mat 10 he said "go ye not into the way of the gentile....." without the death of Jesus, even God did nt recognize us, bible said, we were not a people n we had no God in d world..

Good God! I can go no further with you bro. I suggest more study would help.

idnoble135:
Hmhmmm.... I do not follow the Mosaic law. Relax, thats what the discussion was swerved into. I'm a believer of grace.

its either u r dishonest or u don't know what grace mean, u wey de tithe for God to kill another person n give u house, car, wife, peace, position etc. Av u ever read 2Peter 1:2-3, Grace and peace be multiplied unto you, through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord. 3. According to his divine power , hath given unto us ALL THINGS THAT PERTAINED TO LIVE AND GODLINESS........" He gave all n did nt wait for my tithes. U don't KNOW GRACE OR U R A TITHE COLLECTOR OR A BENEFICIARY.

^
Sir, quit the insults. You might not get my attention anymore if this persists.

idnoble135:

Good God! I can go no further with you bro. I suggest more study would help.

my brother, we call tithe collectors theves, fraudstars, traders/merchants, scammers etc etc, nt bc we want to b mischievous or dat we hate them, but bc we know, dat they know, that christians are nt commanded to pay tithes, but they insist on it bc of greed. So pls if u r nt sure of ur position, i'd advice, do a thorough INDEPENDENT PERSONAL STUDY. Now what will I a pastor loose/gain from preaching against tithe? Chew upon this. God bless.

^
Hmhmm... And you too.

idnoble135: ^
Sir, quit the insults. You might not get my attention anymore if this persists.

i no mean insult o, sorry if dat's how it snunds in ur ears.

christemmbassey: i mean insult o, sorry if dat's how it snunds in ur ears.

Yes pls. Noted.

It is well. See the way i was singled out when i made my stance known, lol. It is well.
As the days go by, i'd trust to make posts. I've read threads where it is told that Jesus never tithed, yet He did. I've read threads where it is told that tithe is self righteousness... Lol! Tithe is not self righteousness, its not, it bigger than that.
Thanks to the pro tithe and anti tithe whose posts forced me to search out scriptures for my self.
Like my first post on this thread states, Jesus never cancelled tithes, if it was the Father's will, Jesus will have been prompted to specifically cancel it. He already cancelled the early view on divorce, murder, lust etc. But it came to tithe and there was no, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU", rather, it was "THESE THINGS YE OUGHT TO DO". That to me is the biggest evidence in line with the thread, why tithe still exists.
And with this, i think i'm done with the thread.

idnoble135:
lol.... Interesting. Yes pls.
Hope i can keep up the steam, its getting late.

Okay, if you are not following Mosaic Law, why then do you single out tithe only to still follow from the Mosaic Law?

idnoble135: It is well. See the way i was singled out when i made my stance known, lol. It is well.
As the days go by, i'd trust to make posts. I've read threads where it is told that Jesus never tithed, yet He did. I've read threads where it is told that tithe is self righteousness... Lol! Tithe is not self righteousness, its not, it bigger than that.
Thanks to the pro tithe and anti tithe whose posts forced me to search out scriptures for my self.
Like my first post on this thread states, Jesus never cancelled tithes, if it was the Father's will, Jesus will have been prompted to specifically cancel it. He already cancelled the early view on divorce, murder, lust etc. But it came to tithe and there was no, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU", rather, it was "THESE THINGS YE OUGHT TO DO". That to me is the biggest evidence in line with the thread, why tithe still exists.
And with this, i think i'm done with the thread.

Jesus could not have cancelled tithe at the time the dispensation of LAW was still in force. If he approved it then, in Matthew 23:23, was he the one collecting or receiving the tithe from those who paid the tithe then? Remember, Jesus cannot receive tithe because he wasn't a Levite.

Goshen360:

Okay, if you are not following Mosaic Law, why then do you single out tithe only to still follow from the Mosaic Law?

It pre existed before the law. It was not done away with.

Goshen360:

Jesus could not have cancelled tithe at the time the dispensation of LAW was still in force. If he approved it then, in Matthew 23:23, was he the one collecting or receiving the tithe from those who paid the tithe then? Remember, Jesus cannot receive tithe because he wasn't a Levite.

If Jesus could cancel divorce as related to the law before he died, why cant he also cancel it before he died?

Goshen360:

Jesus could not have cancelled tithe at the time the dispensation of LAW was still in force. If he approved it then, in Matthew 23:23, was he the one collecting or receiving the tithe from those who paid the tithe then? Remember, Jesus cannot receive tithe because he wasn't a Levite.

Lol... You never can tell! Scripture is silent on that. Samuel did not come from Levi, or a priestly family yet he functioned as a priest. David was not a levite but he ate of the holy bread meant for levites.
I'm not trying to say Christ collected tithes o, i'm saying instead, that you can not be sure that he did not collect it, since the scriptures did not say anything on it.
The words of Spurgeon, "be silent where the bible is silent".

idnoble135:
It pre existed before the law. It was not done away with.

Okay, this is the main issue with tithe teachers. When you say it predated the law. Why then do you return to the law tithe to threaten non tithers with curse of Malachi? The tithe that predated the law, was it given in order to secure blessings? Was it from income or monetary wages or salary?

idnoble135:
If Jesus could cancel divorce as related to the law before he died, why cant he also cancel it before he died?

Again, the practices of the law was still in force then. Jesus was rebuking the scribes and pharisees, not his teaching his disciples. If you think Christ was addressing the church, in that verse, then put your name in Matthew 23:23 and re-read it and listen to how it sounds.

idnoble135:
Lol... You never can tell! Scripture is silent on that. Samuel did not come from Levi, or a priestly family yet he functioned as a priest. David was not a levite but he ate of the holy bread meant for levites.
I'm not trying to say Christ collected tithes o, i'm saying instead, that you can not be sure that he did not collect it, since the scriptures did not say anything on it.
The words of Spurgeon, "be silent where the bible is silent".

Jesus could not have received tithe because Hebrews 7 says so. Samuel's priesthood is a type and shadow of believer's priesthood. Christ is our high priest and priest don't pay tithe to high priest, even under the law. As for David, don't even go there because, if I show you sometimes about David now and do teaching with it, I'm sure you will not agree with me.

I'm trying to keep my eyes open. Good night.

^ okay. No wahala. Good night.

Hebrews 9:16-17
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

The Old Convenant took effect on the Israelites ONLY AFTER the sacrifice of blood. But before the convenant took effect God had to give His laws, statutes and judgements (ordinances) FIRST. The blood of the bulls and sheep simply SEALED the bond.

But because the people could not fulfil their part and infact did so much evil, God has to send His Son Jesus Christ to avert the imminent curse on the earth.
Malachi 4:5-6
5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:
6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

And the word of God in Malachi was fulfilled below when Jesus was speaking of John the Baptist, who had come to prepare the way.
Matthew 11:14 And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.

And Jesus finally came, born of a woman, under the law (Galatians 4:4) to redeem those under the law as seen by some of the deliverances from devils miracles He did.
So THE WORD OF GOD BECAME FLESH.
John 1:14,17
And the WORD WAS MADE FLESH, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) FULL OF GRACE AND TRUTH
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:15 Having abolished IN HIS FLESH the ENMITY, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, AND took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross

It was while Jesus was IN THE FLESH that He abolished the law of commandments CONTAINED in ordinances (Exodus chapter 21-24)that was causing enmity between Jews and Gentiles....Read the story of the Samaritan woman for example in John 4, and the commission to take the gospel to the end of the earth (totally different from just Israel alone). Also read Matthew 5 and see where He was abolishing the judgements for going against those ordinances. e.g. Eye for eye etc. It was at His death that he TOTALLY TOOK IT OUT OF THE WAY by nailing it to the cross being a sacrifice for sins. The 10 commandments were not the ordinances. Jesus was even very angry when the traditions of men were put over the law of God. Tithe and offerings were already before the law and are not the ordinances often misconstrues in Malachi 3:7 as that scripture is not talking about Malachi 3:8....verse 7 was already answered in verse 7.

That is why scriptures says: Jesus is the end of the law FOR righteousness to them that believe (Romans 10:4) because the righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:3-4) and you believe in Christ by believing His words (John 5:24) as well as the finished work on the cross. (John 19:30)

Why? Because all Jesus did and said while He was IN THE Flesh was THE TESTAMENT (THE TRUTH AND GRACE) which was only SEALED at His death by BLOOD. Hence the NEW CONVENANT!

Matthew 26:28 for this is my blood, which confirms the covenant between God and his people. It is poured out as a sacrifice to forgive the sins of many


To read more on this and also the transfiguration, continue in https://www.nairaland.com/1455684/what-seem-difference-between-old#18398498

idnoble135:
If Jesus could cancel divorce as related to the law before he died, why cant he also cancel it before he died?

did Jesus cancell divorse? Bro, u really need to study ur bible o, u'r just disgracing ur pastor here!

idnoble135: It is well. See the way i was singled out when i made my stance known, lol. It is well.
As the days go by, i'd trust to make posts. I've read threads where it is told that Jesus never tithed, yet He did. I've read threads where it is told that tithe is self righteousness... Lol! Tithe is not self righteousness, its not, it bigger than that.
Thanks to the pro tithe and anti tithe whose posts forced me to search out scriptures for my self.
Like my first post on this thread states, Jesus never cancelled tithes, if it was the Father's will, Jesus will have been prompted to specifically cancel it. He already cancelled the early view on divorce, murder, lust etc. But it came to tithe and there was no, "BUT I SAY UNTO YOU", rather, it was "THESE THINGS YE OUGHT TO DO". That to me is the biggest evidence in line with the thread, why tithe still exists.
And with this, i think i'm done with the thread.

@the bolded, pls stop saying that, its ridiculous.

Saying Jesus paid tithes when he walked the earth is a LIE. A very big LIE

Pls give me the scripture reference and I'll apologise for calling it a lie.

Jesus NEVER paid tithes because he wasn't a farmer, neither did he collect tithes because he wasn't a Levite. Any person who says he did is a LIAR.

The apostles couldn't have collected tithes because bible has no record of them as Levites. In fact Paul was a Benjamite. Any person saying they collected tithes from people is Lying and knows nothing about the Levitical order.

To whom then did the early Christians pay their tithes to if they paid? Remember Levitical priesthood continued until 70AD when general Titus overran Jerusalem while Jesus was crucified in 29AD.

christemmbassey: did Jesus cancell divorse? Bro, u really need to study ur bible o, u'r just disgracing ur pastor here!

Rather you read my first post on this thread. Dont get yourself confused. Jesus cancelled the divorce pattern as contained in the law and brought something new. Read my first post pls.

Candour:

@the bolded, pls stop saying that, its ridiculous.

Saying Jesus paid tithes when he walked the earth is a LIE. A very big LIE

Pls give me the scripture reference and I'll apologise for calling it a lie.

lol.... I thought we agreed that you will study it first. I already gave you the books of Mathew and Acts.

idnoble135:
lol.... I thought we agreed that you will study it first. I already gave you the books of Mathew and Acts.

I have bro......still can't find it.

Show me and I'll apologise