FOLYKAZE:

Lets take for example when snake is dead. At this point, the system breaks down. But on it body, there will be some form of reaction on it skin when the sun shine on it. Also there are form of movements in it body due to some chemical reactions. Can we say this is consciousness as in the form of reaction?

Alfa Seltzer:

Yes. Also note that its individual cells are still alive and react consciously.

PAGAN 9JA:
First of all I would like to thank FOLYKASE for creating this topic. My friends, it is these matters that we must discuss. This is TRUE RELIGION. TRUE MOSTE ANCIENTE AND POTENT SPIRITUALITY and we must focus on this. and not on how many virgins will you get when you go to heaven or whether eve bit the apple or not.



Ok now I would like to tell you fellow comrades, not to confuse life with consciousness. I think there must be another term invented for what OP is trying to convey.

I personally below that everything in this Universe, be it rock or plant or animal or planet. Everything has its own energy/driving force. Everything is random, yet the randomness exists for a purpose. Therefore everything has a purpose and was created by the Creator God/Force for a purpose. And this inner energy present in all things that "exist", i.e., matter, is what gives it its own consciousness.

The matter doesn't need a brain or to be alive for that. It just has own inner energy that gives it a purpose, which indirectly gives it its own consciousness.

Now. from personal experience. For idol worshipers especially. You will notice that praying through an idol over time, gives the rock itself a higher meaning. IT gives it an aura. Or also if you hear accounts from Haj pilgrims who have been near the Ka'aba or even who had the privilege to be inside it. Their 6th sense can feel the energies emanating from the rock/block structure. Side reactions include emotional-breakdown, etc. It doesnt have to be a reaction too. IT can be just the feeling of a "presence". Now does it strengthen its existing energy (since we pour our Spiritual energies into it) ? Or does it gain new energies?
Honestly I don't know. Its all open to discussion. There are many factors interconnected here.

FOLYKAZE:



My aim is pointed at paganism or traditional spirituality. Im getting to understand new things.

What is this sixth sense.....could it mean 'intuition'?

I will like us to discuss about animal sacrifice/ sacrifices and incantation one of this days. This thread just open door into it.

Back to discussion....if I should get you right, do you mean since objects embodied energy, it then become conscious?

FOLYKAZE:

I cant say anymore. This is Epic. Thanks for sparing your time and energy on this thread

ifeness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgBY15KSnmo

This link will help to get an articulate explanation of the yoruba cosmology.

PAGAN 9JA:


Yes I realised that. You have a Pagan mindset.




Yes probably. It is not acquired. It is your inbuilt sense.



Sure. I have explained sacrifices briefly on previous occassions. Im sure you read about it?

Its a slightly different area though interconnected doubtless.



Yes thats right.

FOLYKAZE:

I dont like tagging african spirituality as pagan. I think 'naturalistic pantheism' should serve well. Ifa is Ifa, those who practise it should be called with it.

Also my ancestors live a trait in me. They live in me. Denying them is pure stupidity.

Intuition is Eshu to me. Lol

Pls can you provide me links on sacrifice/incantation? I need to read up something on that

FOLYKAZE:

I dont like tagging african spirituality as pagan. I think 'naturalistic pantheism' should serve well. Ifa is Ifa, those who practise it should be called with it.

Also my ancestors live a trait in me. They live in me. Denying them is pure stupidity.

Intuition is Eshu to me. Lol

Pls can you provide me links on sacrifice/incantation? I need to read up something on that

ifeness:
Alfa is definitely right,everything is conscious, be it dead plants,rocks,mountains,everything contains consciousness. I have met Africans in the Uk,France,U.S who are strongly into Africa Spirituality. It was an African American who enlightened Fela Kuti spiritually ,she cleared his path toward Africanism,he became possessed by a new energy that made him tackle the foundational problems of Nigeria. As we can see,he became an indestructible force even years after his death because he became in-tune with his divine self,he became a God.

Africanism is the way to go for Africans. We are definitely Africans for a reason. I know we have our differences,but at least we can solve our problems better the African ways. Cultures evolve,even the Europeans were cannibals at some point. Africans have greatness encoded in their DNA,i see no reason why we cannot be great again.

Alfa Seltzer: Yes. Everything is conscious. The problem we are having is that we are defining their own consciousness based on our own. We don't know how they express their consciousness but it is there. How do I know? Because everything reacts to something. I am reacting to this thread because I am conscious of it. My typing on my keyboard is my own way of expressing this consciousness. A stone hit with a hammer reacts. A piece of paper but inside a bottle reacts; may even change colour to express this reaction. This is what I call being conscious. It is very different from being alive or being able to think.

AbuHanifa: Can you apply this to inanimate objects? If you hit a stone, does it react as a result of sensation or as a result of the impact of the force?

Alfa Seltzer:

We don't know. We are almost sure that a stone has no sensation but we can never be 100% sure. What we know however is that it reacts to its environment. And for me, that is being conscious of its environment because I don't see how you can react to something you are not conscious of.

AbuHanifa: When you take consciousness to mean awareness, I think is seriously flawed, when you relate it to the stone case. Reacting to the environment cannot be taken as being conscious of the environment. Inanimate (stone in this case) does not responds stimulus but can react with other objects. Remember this "Every object continues in its state of rest or linear motion on a straight line except when it is being acted upon by external force". Take inanimate objects as zombies who cannot make but could be made or could be made to make.

musa ajebor: I think alfa is correct to an extent.
If u read my post u will realise that I mentioned that there is a degree of variation of consciousness in animate an inanimate creations.
U cannot compare the extent of consciousness of a human with that of a plant. And that of a plant with that of a rock. And this does not mean the rock and the plant is unaware.
Talking of stimuli, plants respond to several stimuli such as touch,light,gravity etc.but still u cannot compare this with the complex nerve impulse of the human brain.
Now for the fact that the rock does not respond to such sensations in like manner does not make it unaware.

AbuHanifa: When you take consciousness to mean awareness, I think is seriously flawed, when you relate it to the stone case. Reacting to the environment cannot be taken as being conscious of the environment. Inanimate (stone in this case) does not responds stimulus but can react with other objects. Remember this "Every object continues in its state of rest or linear motion on a straight line except when it is being acted upon by external force". Take inanimate objects as zombies who cannot make but could be made or could be made to make.

AbuHanifa: Care to explain how rocks respond to stimulus

musa ajebor: This is for me a very interesting topic.
@ op , both animate and inanimate are conscious. Consciousness does not need a brain.
Consciousness varies in degrees. Plant consciousness is higher when compared to that of a stone.
That does not make a stone unconscious.
An example to show the state of consciousness of a massive stone eg Andes mountains. In the field of geology there are several terms to describe rock movements. Some are plate tectonics, isostastic adjustments,transform faults etc.
These further goes to show the level of self awareness of the rock.
A good example is a coastal mountain
-it is aware it is close to the sea
-it interacts with the sea water and knows the effects of sea water on its lands.
-coastal mountains are located right ontop of the continental crust while the ocean is flowing ontop of the oceanic crust
-the continental crust never allows the oceanic crust move over it. It always submerges the oceanic crust.
-these continues to elevate the mountains and volcanism continue to build more land mass.
-this protects the continents from the invading oceans.
Now who says the mountains aren't self aware. I think the stones are aware, the rocks, mountains,the earth, and also The universe are self conscious of what going on within atop and around it. If not, we as humans should have been extinct by now.
Ill give u anexample of plant consciousness as time goes on to prove to u that even plant can tell when a beautiful lady is passing by.

AbuHanifa: Care to explain how rocks respond to stimulus

Alfa Seltzer:

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
First, how is consciousness different from awareness?
Secondly, how can you react to something you are unconscious of? Give an example.
Thirdly, You are wrong in saying that some objets don't respond to stimulus. They do. Just not in a way you may expect.
Fourth, Does the law of motion you quoted applied to things you would describe as "conscious"? If yes, what differentiates them from other objects?
Finally your last sentence shows that you haven't really thought things through. Are your fingers zombies or are they conscious? Are they being made to type on this thread? If yes, then your definition qualifies them as zombies. Such goes with every other part of your body. So maybe you are a sum part of interacting zombies.
But you may just say that they are conscious as they are attached to you body and thus obey your will and brain. If so, then artificial fingers are also conscious. No?

AbuHanifa: You got my explanation all wrong. I will dissect your response when I am less busy. BRB

Alfa Seltzer:

Don't hurt your brain too much. You don't want it to lose consciousness.

AbuHanifa:

The subject matter is as easy as QED. Except you racked your brain before you came up with something.

Alfa Seltzer:

You seem to be contradicting yourself.
First, how is consciousness different from awareness?
Secondly, how can you react to something you are unconscious of? Give an example.
Thirdly, You are wrong in saying that some objets don't respond to stimulus. They do. Just not in a way you may expect.
Fourth, Does the law of motion you quoted applied to things you would describe as "conscious"? If yes, what differentiates them from other objects?
Finally your last sentence shows that you haven't really thought things through. Are your fingers zombies or are they conscious? Are they being made to type on this thread? If yes, then your definition qualifies them as zombies. Such goes with every other part of your body. So maybe you are a sum part of interacting zombies.
But you may just say that they are conscious as they are attached to you body and thus obey your will and brain. If so, then artificial fingers are also conscious. No?

Alfa Seltzer:

Get a stone, break it. You will see that the outer layer is different from the inner layers because the outer layers changed and became protective of the internal layers. If you leave the broken stone for some years, the exposed former inner layer would also change its texture and colour. Now, why would a stone want to protect its internal layers?

AbuHanifa: Is the stone protecting its internal layers or it is reacting to the environment?

Alfa Seltzer:

When you put on a sweater, are you protecting your internal organs or are you reacting to the environment?

AbuHanifa:

Fourthly, the law of motion applies to inanimate objects only.

AbuHanifa: How can a stone put on a layer. Where did it pick it from?