chysam:


Bidam,I think you made some valueable points here though with some level of misunderstandability attached on your part.A good point you indeed made is that it is very good to give especially to the needy,and it does not matter what the percentage is so long as you have the capacity to do so.Nobody disagree with this at all.The only clearance antithithers need is full explanation from prothithers regarding tithing is simply why we chose to tithe as mordern day christians when our progenitors bluntly refused to carry out that instruction.The methods by which they got their income is totally different from the tithing being advocated today.Without taking anything personal,can you humbly explain to us why early christians did not tithe as is recorded in the bible?.Do you think they were right about this attitude or wrong?.Time changes every other thing yes we know,but does the bible and its content also give room for changes in events and activities as are recorded therein?. Please calmly explain if you can,possibly making use of quotations from the Gospel about how both jesus and the apostles raised money for the running of their ministries.Also important is for you to tell us why the apostles did not receive tithes like the Levite priests.If they didn't.why then must a 21st century pastor do?. Thanks as you explain this to all.

Kindly go through the tithe threads for your queries. I am tired of circular arguments.

Bidam:
How? Is God also a TWO FOLD God in scriptures?

No, God is MORE...God is Trinity. You disagree?

Goshen360:
No, God is MORE...God is Trinity. You disagree?

I disagree. God is ONE in three persons. So Abraham had to share himself into two abi? Care to explain hw you came about your two fold proposition?

Bidam:
I disagree. God is ONE in three persons. So Abraham had to share himself into two abi? Care to explain hw you came about your two fold proposition?

So also Abraham is ONE but in 2 fatherhood - father of the JEWISH PEOPLE and father of them who are of faith.

So when you asked,

Bidam:
Is Abraham your father? yes or no?

Which fatherhood of Abraham are you referring to?

Goshen360:


So also Abraham is ONE but in 2 fatherhood - father of the JEWISH PEOPLE and father of them who are of faith.

So when you asked,


Which fatherhood of Abraham are you referring to?

No i no gree dis wuruwuru reasoning. Ishmael is of the flesh... Isaac is of the promise..both Jews and gentiles are one since the wall of hostilities is broken when Jesus died. So which one do you belong to..Ishmael or Isaac?

Bidam:
Do you look up to Abraham your father or is it Paul you look up to?

we look up to Jesus, the author and finisherr of our faith, we are CHRISTIANS, WE ARE NOT ABRAHAMANS!

Bidam:
Ok, you are calling God a liar when he told you to look up to Abraham your father abi?

God never told a christian to look up to Abraham!

Bidam:
No i no gree dis wuruwuru reasoning. Ishmael is of the flesh... Isaac is of the promise..both Jews and gentiles are one since the wall of hostilities is broken when Jesus died. So which one do you belong to..Ishmael or Isaac?

SMH literally! !!

Bidam,
1. Abraham is the physical father of the Jews/Israel- Luke 16:24,30,John 8:33,39,53
2. Abraham is the spiritual father of ALL who come to Christ by faith for just as he beloved and it was accounted to him righteousness, we believe in Jesus and his righteousness is imputed on us- Gal 3:29, Rom 9:7

So a Jew can call Abraham Father and a believer can call him father. Do you now understand why you were being asked to clarify your fatherhood question?

Goshen360:
SMH literally! !!

vooks:

Bidam,
1. Abraham is the physical father of the Jews/Israel.
2. Abraham is the spiritual father of ALL who come to Christ by faith for just as he beloved and it was accounted to him righteousness, we believe in Jesus and his righteousness is imputed on us

So a Jew can call Abraham Father and a believer can call him father. Do you now understand why you were being asked to clarify your fatherhood question?

Abraham is considered the father of christians ONLY IN D SENSE DAT Adam Smith is the father of economists!

christemmbassey:
Abraham is considered the father of christians ONLY IN D SENSE DAT Adam Smith is the father of economists!

...but Adam Smith had his natural or biological children. ....

***for clarification to Bidam****

christemmbassey:
we look up to Jesus, the author and finisherr of our faith, we are CHRISTIANS, WE ARE NOT ABRAHAMANS!

Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for when he was but one I called him, and I blessed him, and made him many. Does this scripture by prophet Isaiah applies to you?

vooks:
Bidam,
1. Abraham is the physical father of the Jews/Israel- Luke 16:24,30,John 8:33,39,53
2. Abraham is the spiritual father of ALL who come to Christ by faith for just as he beloved and it was accounted to him righteousness, we believe in Jesus and his righteousness is imputed on us- Gal 3:29, Rom 9:7

So a Jew can call Abraham Father and a believer can call him father.

Good, i wanted to take them one step at a time. It is difficult for a babe to eat bones.

christemmbassey:
Abraham is considered the father of christians [s]ONLY IN D SENSE DAT Adam Smith is the father of economists[/s]!

Once again do you agree ABRAHAM IS YOUR FATHER?

Goshen360:
SMH literally! !!

I already told you there is no such thing as jews and gentiles right now, the gentiles are grafted into the olive tree. Abraham was not a Jew but a gentile called of God. Is Abraham your father?

Isaiah 51:2 was speaking to the children of Israel. They were to look to Abraham.

We today are told to look to Christ.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

MarkMiwerds:
Isaiah 51:2 was speaking to the children of Israel. They were to look to Abraham.

Wrong! Isaiah's prophecy was for the salvation of Zion the church. Read it again.

We today are told to look to Christ.

Hebrews 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God

.I never argued this point with you either.

^^^^ Mark, This commentary will help you in your bible study, so you will not read literally into text in a legalistic approach like goshen and christemmbassey.

Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Look unto Abraham your father,.... Not only the father of the Jewish nation, but of all them that believe: this explains what is meant by the rock, in the former verse, who is to be looked unto for imitation in the exercise of faith, and performance of duty, and for encouragement in distressed times and circumstances: http://biblehub.com/isaiah/51-2.htm

Bidam:
Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for when he was but one I called him, and I blessed him, and made him many. Does this scripture by prophet Isaiah applies to you?

Sarah did NOT 'born' me(not my mother ) therefor Abraham IS NOT MY FATHER! I have natural father aka earthly father, Mr Bassey. I have God as my father who is in heaven, my creator. But for Abraham, the only thing that connects us is faith. Abraham has NOT DONE ANYTHING FOR ME, HIS FAITH IN GOD DID NOT SAVE ME, WHAT SAVED ME, IS MY FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD. Jn 3:16, 1jn 5:9-12. Remain blessed .

Bidam:
Once again do you agree ABRAHAM IS YOUR FATHER?

no sire, ABRAGAM IS NOT MY FATHER! He is not my earthly ancestor and certainly NOT MY HEAVENLY FATHER, THERE IS NO OTHER REALM TO QUALIFY HIM AS MY FATHER,. Not in heaven n not on earth.

^ ^ ^ Leave Bidam alone to continue in his Babylon. He was quoting "look unto Abraham your father" and also scripture speaks to Christians to look unto Christ. Can one be looking unto Christ and at the same time be looking unto Abraham. I see Mark explaining to him that that verse was speaking to the national Israel which Abraham was their father.

christemmbassey:
Sarah did NOT 'born' me(not my mother ) therefor Abraham IS NOT MY FATHER! I have natural father aka earthly father, Mr Bassey. I have God as my father who is in heaven, my creator. But for Abraham, the only thing that connects us is faith. Abraham has NOT DONE ANYTHING FOR ME, HIS FAITH IN GOD DID NOT SAVE ME, WHAT SAVED ME, IS MY FAITH IN THE SON OF GOD. Jn 3:16, 1jn 5:9-12. Remain blessed .

^ ^ ^ The above highlight truth is what Bidam refused to understand. That's why he (Abraham) was called father of THEM WHO ARE OF FAITH. I can't understand how someone like Bidam will still be reading these stuffs but still can't understand if not that they just want to argue blindly.

Bidam:
Isaiah 51:2
Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for when he was but one I called him, and I blessed him, and made him many. Does this scripture by prophet Isaiah applies to you?

certainly NOT but. ''Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith........'' does, folks like you think d bible is complicated n contradictory when u blatantly refuse to rightly divide d word....

christemmbassey:
certainly NOT but. ''Looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith........'' does, folks like you think d bible is complicated n contradictory when u blatantly refuse to rightly divide d word....

Next time you talk to Bidam, ask him....can he be looking at his phone and at the same time be looking towards his driving path? Since he is quoting looking unto Abraham applies to Christians. SMH

Goshen360:
^ ^ ^ Leave Bidam alone to continue in his Babylon. He was quoting "look unto Abraham your father" and also scripture speaks to Christians to look unto Christ. Can one be looking unto Christ and at the same time be looking unto Abraham. I see Mark explaining to him that that verse was speaking to the national Israel which Abraham was their father.

don't blame Bidam, his islamic background is his problem. You know islam is modified judaism. Again, d OT was too too beautiful dat some are like '' a bird in hand(OT) worth more than two in d bush(NT) bc d can't fathom d reality of d NT, it is 'bush' to them, so this tendency of '' make i manage d one wey i see'?. A blessed sunday to u bro!

christemmbassey:
don't blame Bidam, his islamic background is his problem. You know islam is modified judaism. Again, d OT was too too beautiful dat some are like '' a bird in hand(OT) worth more than two in d bush(NT) bc d can't fathom d reality of d NT, it is 'bush' to them, so this tendency of '' make i manage d one wey i see'?. A blessed sunday to u bro!

Big brother, there's wealth of revelation in the NT I kid you know. That's why, it's an inexhaustible wealth of revelation. People haven't tapped much into it and they are digging into the OT that wasn't even meant for their application.

Goshen360:


^ ^ ^ The above highlight truth is what Bidam refused to understand. That's why he (Abraham) was called father of THEM WHO ARE OF FAITH. I can't understand how someone like Bidam will still be reading these stuffs but still can't understand if not that they just want to argue blindly.

and d bible says..... We are blessed WITH the faithful Abraham and DID NOT SAY ' BECAUSE OF' the faithful Abraham. What is dif for folks like Bidam to undastand here? I wonder!!!

christemmbassey:
and d bible says..... We are blessed WITH the faithful Abraham and DID NOT SAY ' BECAUSE OF' the faithful Abraham. What is dif for folks like Bidam to undastand here? I wonder!!!

He doesn't pay attention to tenses....which is part of good understanding. . Just like scripture says we are blessED in Christ and someone still teaching us to pay tithe in order to be bless. Or when we're deliverED through the finished works of Christ and someone teaching us to attend some mountain of fire for deliverance. Which one is better? . Like you always say, we have greater work to do in the church than outside.

Goshen360:

Big brother, there's wealth of revelation in the NT I kid you know. That's why, it's an inexhaustible wealth of revelation. People haven't tapped much into it and they are digging into the OT that wasn't even meant for their application.

to compare OT and NT is like comparring water tank with ocean. OMG!

christemmbassey:
to compare OT and NT is like comparring water tank with ocean. OMG!

You have the right words to describe these things. It's like someone who came to a university (coming to Christ) to study Medicine (fullness of Christ in the NT) and he left his course of study and while enrolled in Medicine, he's studying (Linguistics) or studying Yoruba or Spanish. You can conclude what kind of argument such person will continue with those who had stayed in their course of studying.

Goshen360:


He doesn't pay attention to tenses....which is part of good understanding. . Just like scripture says we are blessED in Christ and someone still teaching us to pay tithe in order to be bless. Or when we're deliverED through the finished works of Christ and someone teaching us to attend some mountain of fire for deliverance. Which one is better? . Like you always say, we have greater work to do in the church than outside.

id bigest problem of d church today especially in Nigeria is the oga 'pastor' many are theives and some are ignorants and many are cowards, intimidated by d truth of d gospel. The day the thieves repent, the ignorants accept the knowledge and practice wisdom, the day d cowards and d fearful will haue d audacity to take God for his word, that will be they. The sheeps will follow the sherpered, they always do.

^ ^ ^ Can I share a verse with you before you sleep.....