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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches (30132 Views)
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Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 3:28pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
tpia@:Zikkyy don turn devourer |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Zikkyy(m): 3:40pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
Bidam: ......driven from/by the heart. i.e. it should be personal. My position is that tithe is not preach-able. you cannot encourage people to give a certain %. by doing so you are trying to enforce a standard which shouldn't be. Bidam: My argument goes beyond Abbie's tithe being one off and of war booty. It becomes a concern when some people attempt to link this with tithe of income today, storehouse/church bank account and devourer. what is the connection between the one time giving of a tenth of war booty and the giving of a 10% of salary/profit or sales from business/allowances (a.k.a. pocket money) to your local church or pastor? Bidam: i don't see anything wrong in you appreciating God by giving 10% of your income to your pastor/church (if it comes from the heart). the concern is with the preaching of the tithe gospel. Bidam: Okay. Bidam: It depends on your definition of giving here. Jesus did not condemn anybody for adhering to the law of moses. so there's no reason for him to condemn tithe. did any Jew tithe his/her salary? did any Jew tithe his allowance (a.k.a pocket money) if they did am very sure Jesus would have condemned it, but they didn't. So you understand why Jesus did not condemn tithe, there was nobody engaging the modern day version of tithing. Bidam: we are not told to tithe or not to tithe. let it be as you are led (by the spirit o! not by your pastor, and not because you want to hammer because such motive takes away the love/sincerity in your giving). You can see that we don't have to argue too much if you don't attempt to twist scriptures to justify actions that cannot be supported with scriptures 9 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Zikkyy(m): 4:12pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Because my (so called) OFFERING is not linked to Jacob's. i am not giving because Jacob gave. For people like you that tithe because you want to imitate Jacob (though we don't see/read Jacob tithing), i am asking why you are not giving directly to God. if Jacob engaged in tithing, he would have given it directly to God. I believe that's simple enough. Please answer my question na. is the question so difficult? m.k.o2005: Why do i need to separate my 'church' support into 'offering' and 'tithe'? if my total budget for the 'church' is 20% why separate into 10% for 'tithe' and 10% for 'offering'? especially when my 'offering' is same amount as the 'tithe' maybe there's something you are not telling me. Besides Abraham & Jacob you want to imitate did not tithe for 'church' maintenance'. Are you really sure you understand why you tithe? m.k.o2005: Don't deceive yourself, it is the pastor/church administrator that decides what to do with the money usually without asking for God's opinion. m.k.o2005: God will always maintain his church tithe or no tithe. absence of 'tithe' will/can not collapse the church. where is your faith? 5 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mko2005: 4:12pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
@Zikky quote''Jesus will did not condemn anybody for adhering to the law of moses. so there's no reason for him to condemn tithe. did any Jew tithe his/her salary? did any Jew tithe his allowance (a.k.a pocket money) if they did am very sure Jesus would have condemned it, but they didn't. So you understand why Jesus did not condemn tithe, there was nobody engaging the modern day version of tithing.'' If i may ask,do you think there were as much bankers,shippers,oil industry workers,architects,town planners and the likes of all the predominantly modern workers and biznesses as we have them today back then in Jesus' time ? Men were predominantly farmers and they gave tithe in that line ! Besides who told you they never tithed stuffs other than cassava and yam Go study ur bible you will find out that men tithed gold,silver and even iron related materials ! When Jacob tithed or vowed to tithe of all that he possess,who told you that all he had was just vegetables and coco-yam! He gave a tithe of all that was given to him ! If God gives me cassava,i will tithe in cassava ! If he gives me veggies,i will tithe in vegies,if he gives me cows,i will tithe in cows,if goat,i do it in goats,if mushrooms,i do it in mushrooms and if cash,i will tithe in ...... Fill in for me Zikky please! Now who said i can't spiritually use cash to represent my vegetable and life stock blessings ? If he could receive Gold,silver and iron materials ,then he can accept my naira and dollars ! It depends on ur understanding bro ! Or you think God eats vegetables and coco yams ? But he can distribute it to the 'havenots' and can also instruct or inspire the distribution of my tithes along the lines it can be most effectively used for the furtherance of the gospel ! God help us |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 4:17pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: MKO please where in the bible did people tithe gold and silver? i would be so glad if you show me. 3 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Zikkyy(m): 4:25pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: You said Abraham tithed more after tithing war booty and Melchi disappeared after collecting the booty. my question was; who collected Abbie's other tithes? So, since Melchi is Jesus what happened to the booty? are they in heaven? you know the booty may include animals like horses and/or donkey, maybe the donkeys are running around in heaven as we speak. m.k.o2005: So the pastors are representing God. who are you representing then? Satan? so are they going to heaven to drop the tithe on your behalf? maybe that's what the PJs are for Did God tell you to give his tithe to a rep? Jacob told God he will give a tenth to God. If he did, he would have given it directly to God via burnt offering. Abbie gave his to Melchi, the Israelite gave theirs to the tribe of Levi (as their inheritance and as commanded by God), who told you to give a tithe to pastors (self appointed reps)? m.k.o2005: |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by christemmbassey(m): 4:48pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005:this is y ppl write jamb n waec 10x but still fail, bros, did i ask u anything about Jesus? Did i say, explain Jesus priesthood? Ok, for d last time, this is d kwesion, 1.was melchi a priest or a highpriest? 2. Was Abraham a priest. If u can nt answer, just say, "no idea". Good luck. 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Zikkyy(m): 5:00pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Only those i can vouch for; people like you. m.k.o2005: Its not about supporting the work of God or devil, that na window dressing. from the way you been twisting scriptures, it's very obvious your tithing is based on some profit motive. The man tithing out of love will not need more than a post to state his cause. 4 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Nobody: 5:14pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
Zikkyy: don't mind m.k.o. From his posts, the 2 reasons he tithes is 1) Greediness, so that God would fill his house with riches. The more the tithe, the more the riches 2) FEAR of the Devourer lynching him. 6 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Zikkyy(m): 5:35pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Nobody argues that they were not predominantly farmers, it was still a society (maybe not as sophisticated as modern day) but you are very likely to have service providers. Jews were working for their rich brothers and earning wages as well. The salary earners did not and were not required to tithe. m.k.o2005: If men tithed gold and silver, it was not under the law. Maybe you are referring to Abbie. Whatever Abbie or Jacob tithed was rendered irrelevant after Moses dished out the law. Abbie & Jacob's (if he tithed) type of tithing was nailed to the temple's wall as it was not allowed under the law. So if people gave gold or silver pre-law, God canceled such form of tithing under the law, and it was the tithe under the law that Jesus encouraged for those under the law. m.k.o2005: Done! as requested. My question for you is this; who told to tithe mushroom or cash m.k.o2005: I honestly don't know how you want to achieve this. BTW which one be vegetable and livestock blessings m.k.o2005: @bolded, who told you God received gold, silver and iron materials. Lol! @ iron materials, you think there are construction work ongoing in heaven abi? 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by PastorKun(m): 6:33pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
shachris: You are wrong here, I remained convinced with the way mko assaults scriptures to justify the fraudulent tithe doctrine that he is not a tither but a tithe collector. 4 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by truthislight: 7:53pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Hehehe. The delussion is big. pastors dont collect tithe again |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Candour(m): 8:21pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
These discussions are not for the benefit of the discussants. anybody can twist or lie to win an argument. The beneficiaries of these discussions are those who have NEVER heard or known what Tithing is all about and its relationship to a Christian except the much popular Mal 3:8-11. They will come in and read maybe today, tomorrow or even next year as long as NL is still operational. They'll read and arrive at the truth and when that happens, this thread and similar ones would have achieved it's aim. So kudos to everybody 4 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by ojtopsy: 8:49pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
I tried following this epistles and it's worth the while. I'm a regular tither but all this while I Neva found it funny when people rain curses of mal. 3 when it's tithe and offer. Time. I read d scriptures and found deut. 14 and 26 since then I gained a new insight into the topic. I still give my tithe to the church but I don't hesitate to give some or all of it to whoever is in need genuinely be he stranger, friend , pastor. I still have my piece of mind. As a socialist I believe God instituted it to reduce wickedness in d land or How do u explain widow,fatherless and the alien . As for the Levites. Though Levites don't exist again it is wrong for the church to dwell on Malachi 3. That's the problem. I get so angry anytime people dwell on dat verse cos, it's half truth . The very day I showed my colleagues deut. 26 in the office they all marveled and could not believe there eyes and ears. As for those arguing to an fro it's all frivolities cos trying to support this or that people will always try to bend facts wc is bad. That's what argument brings. Win at all cost . This is a personal issue. I know it's not easy for people to reason out of box over somthin uve been taking hook line and sinker before. Along d line arguement has blinded pple to see d point. I can't say don't pay tithe, how are we going to run d church. But teach people rightly and don't rain curses of mal. Just to make them afraid. I was jobless before god gave me a job. So I know how elated I feel anytime I pay tith. It's not because someone is reading mal. 3. In fact that's enough reason to send it to my home church. I was in church one day when one young pastor was saying if u dont pay ull go to hell cos a thief can't see god I was like haba. Wetin?. Where d hell did u read dat young man. It's wrong. The people defending tithe are acting desperate while the anti tithing guys are really articulating, but they are abusive. Dats all For those guys who haven't read deut 26. It's a follow up to 14. See after the cut it's self explanatory no complicated theology. God is a socialist, he doesn't want anyone to suffer just because he or she doesn't have access to the goodies of the land. [b]D[b]euteronomy 26:1-19 KJV [1] And it shall be, when thou art come in unto the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and possessest it, and dwellest therein; [2] That thou shalt take of the first of all the fruit of the earth, which thou shalt bring of thy land that the Lord thy God giveth thee, and shalt put it in a basket, and shalt go unto the place which the Lord thy God shall choose to place his name there. [3] And thou shalt go unto the priest that shall be in those days, and say unto him, I profess this day unto the Lord thy God, that I am come unto the country which the Lord sware unto our fathers for to give us. [4] And the priest shall take the basket out of thine hand, and set it down before the altar of the Lord thy God. [5] And thou shalt speak and say before the Lord thy God, A Syrian ready to perish was my father, and he went down into Egypt, and sojourned there with a few, and became there a nation, great, mighty, and populous: [6] And the Egyptians evil entreated us, and afflicted us, and laid upon us hard bondage: [7] And when we cried unto the Lord God of our fathers, the Lord heard our voice, and looked on our affliction, and our labour, and our oppression: [8] And the Lord brought us forth out of Egypt with a mighty hand, and with an outstretched arm, and with great terribleness, and with signs, and with wonders: [9] And he hath brought us into this place, and hath given us this land, even a land that floweth with milk and honey. [10] And now, behold, I have brought the firstfruits of the land, which thou, O Lord , hast given me. And thou shalt set it before the Lord thy God, and worship before the Lord thy God: [11] And thou shalt rejoice in every good thing which the Lord thy God hath given unto thee, and unto thine house, thou, and the Levite, and the stranger that is among you. [12] When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled; [13] Then thou shalt say before the Lord thy God, I have brought away the hallowed things out of mine house, and also have given them unto the Levite, and unto the stranger, to the fatherless, and to the widow, according to all thy commandments which thou hast commanded me: I have not transgressed thy commandments, neither have I forgotten them : [14] I have not eaten thereof in my mourning, neither have I taken away ought thereof for any unclean use , nor given ought thereof for the dead: but I have hearkened to the voice of the Lord my God, and have done according to all that thou hast commanded me. [15] Look down from thy holy habitation, from heaven, and bless thy people Israel, and the land which thou hast given us, as thou swarest unto our fathers, a land that floweth with milk and honey. [16] This day the Lord thy God hath commanded thee to do these statutes and judgments: thou shalt therefore keep and do them with all thine heart, and with all thy soul. [17] Thou hast avouched the Lord this day to be thy God, and to walk in his ways, and to keep his statutes, and his commandments, and his judgments, and to hearken unto his voice: [18] And the Lord hath avouched thee this day to be his peculiar people, as he hath promised thee, and that thou shouldest keep all his commandments; [19] And to make thee high above all nations which he hath made, in praise, and in name, and in honour; and that thou mayest be an holy people unto the Lord thy God, as he hath spoken. [/b] 2 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by BERNIMOORE: 11:38pm On Oct 17, 2013 |
Nowhere was tithing commanded for christians who by faith in christ became christ follower! but rather than teaching 'giving voluntarily as a personal resolve, what one chose to give as practiced by early christians' modern pastors impose a ten percent tax fraud on their folowers, using DEVOURER in malachi 3 to scare them 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by God2man(m): 6:01am On Oct 18, 2013 |
Candour: These discussions are not for the benefit of the discussants. anybody can twist or lie to win an argument. are you confessing? God2man. 3 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by ATMC(f): 7:22am On Oct 18, 2013 |
truthislight:this got me laughing |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by russello: 9:28am On Oct 18, 2013 |
My Boss gave me a check of 45K as a gift, was i supposed to pay tithe from it? If yes, how much was i supposed to pay as tithe? And what is the repercussion if not payed? |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Candour(m): 10:14am On Oct 18, 2013 |
God2man: What do you think? |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by ojtopsy: 7:05pm On Oct 18, 2013 |
BERNIMOORE: Nowhere was tithing commanded for christians who by faith in christ became christ follower! but rather than teaching 'giving voluntarily as a personal resolve, what one chose to give as practiced by early christians' Yea that's d point I just raised now. The teaching should and must change to voluntary giving and not curses induced . That's just essence of d epistle I wrote b4. Unfortunately that's d. Point the pro-tithers are not seeing, the way and manner they were arguing. It's seems their goal is to win arguement and not to see reason why dwelling on Malachi 3 is inappropriate . 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:54pm On Oct 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005:and still you have not produced Scripture that supports your monetary tithe requirement doctrine. We all know it is because there is no such Scriptural support for monetary tithe requirement. We know that that requirement to tithe money is tradition and doctrine of men. |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by ajayikayod: 10:49am On Oct 21, 2013 |
Goshen360: God bless u. Thr is no better way to say it. Balanced and Inspiring. Glory to God!! 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by ajayikayod: 10:53am On Oct 21, 2013 |
Wonder why many leaders believed d lie dt d church cannot survive without tithes. |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 7:20am On Oct 24, 2013 |
God2man: I am very sad about this forum. I registered 2011, if i am not mistaken, there are over 100 threads on only one topic, TITHE, it is disheartening with the way they called old men of God that are old enough to be their fathers , thieves, fraudster, and that they are teaching nonsense, the Bible says, we should respect elders, there is no courtesy,a good christian must have the fruit of the spirit, up till now, i keep asking, are they Christians or Atheist? Because a good christian will not call old men of God thieves, it is not possibe, but this is in the dictionary of Anti-tithers. It is what you respect that comes into your life, if you want to grow old, you should respect your elders in the Christiandom, they are not Jesus, but they are the respresentatives of God on earthMan says, "Respect your elders." God says, "Them that sin, rebuke before all." I don't care if the elder is sixty or six hundred, if he is teaching the false doctrine that God requires 10% of my money or I will be cursed, I will rebuke him and expose him for the liar that he is. 6 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 10:41am On Oct 24, 2013 |
Goshen360:if all your above benefits are the result of God's curse on you, then I need God to curse me in the same manner. LOL you are blessed, my Brother... not cursed. Keep preaching the Truth as it is written in God's Word. Expose these greedy pastors and teachers for the fraudsters they truly are. God bless. 1 Like |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by MarkMiwerds(m): 5:28am On Oct 25, 2013 |
m.k.o2005:Thank you for warning us that you were preparing to post a capital error. (as if we wouldn't have caught it anyway) Jesus collected tithe,HE commended tithing and HE NEVER in any of HIS teaching admonish us against tithing !The Apostle Paul, who received the doctrines he taught from the Lord Jesus Christ, disagrees with you. Jesus Christ abolished the commandments contained in ordinances. (Eph. 2:14-15) When Hebvrews was written, tithes were still being received by the Levites. This was at the same time that "there he revceiveth them". Christ was receiving the tithes that were being given to the Levites... those tithes were not monetary tithes. Rather, they were the tithes that were required under the Law... tithe of crops and livestock. You were correct. Your post was indeed capital error. God help usYes God, help them. Open the eyes and hearts of those who are being deceived into paying this man-made monetary tithe and let them see that you never authorized such a tithe to be received of pastors today. Let them see that their pastors have been lying to them and they are continuing that lie her on naira forums. Open their eyes to thy Word God that they may behold Thy wondrous truths and learn the Liberty that Christ has called His people into. Teach them to cast out the bondwoman, to cease their spiritual adultery that they commit every time they use the Mosaic/Levitic Law to justify their man-made monetary tithe requirement doctrine. Reveal to them the vanity that their worship is when they teach that man-made monetary tithe doctrine. In Jesus' name. And all the Brethren said... 2 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by mmsen: 9:56am On Nov 04, 2013 |
Do what you want with your money but don't cry poverty when rent and bills are due. Tithing and the preeminence of churches is the worst example of the waste of resources (both time and material) endemic in Nigeria. 3 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by truthislight: 12:51pm On Nov 04, 2013 |
If you are saying this because someone refused to pay tithes, then it is a lie. mmsen: Do what you want with your money but don't cry poverty when rent and bills are due. And what about all those that pay tithes and cannot afford their rentage ? Such foolish statement up their is for the foolish to buy. You pick a stone and throw into a crowded market and say whoever the stone touches, is a theif. What rubbisb ! The stone is sure to hit someone even though he is not a theif. For sure, their are people that will always once in a while feel economic crunch in this world, in Nigeria, America, and Europe and Asia, every where. your statement and the likes from your frudulent pastors shows how deceitful you and them are. Warran Buffet that is Very rich today use to struggle to stay afloat just like every hard working normal people, but your kinds that are lazy theives and without conscience and the fear of God, can come to a public forum and spur such rubbish when God himself said he makes his rain "falls on the roof of the righteouse and the unrighteous". THEIF ! Is that the way you manipulate the people God bought at great cost ? People that God bought with the blood of his own son ? I really pity for you al 2 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by Demainman1: 2:33pm On Nov 04, 2013 |
truthislight: MMSen advice is for the tithe payers bro. |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by truthislight: 4:02pm On Nov 04, 2013 |
I just hope i was wrong. Demain_man: Hmmm! I just hope it is. Its sounds like one of those threath that tithes collectors use. Talking about rent and the likes, it can happen to anybody, be you a tithe payer or a nontithe payer. When there is a lost of job, mogage problem, economic crises, it is not a pointer to God hating anybody. However, working hard and planning ahead can help just anybody to ballance his finacial responsibilities. Giving to God voluntarily wont make one not to meet his financial obligation. Our complaint is on the deceit and intimidation that tithe collectors issues to people, and the bad name they give to God with their fraudulent acts using the bible. I just hope his was not a threat.. 2 Likes |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by vooks: 7:06am On Oct 18, 2014 |
The idea that since Melchizedek met Abraham with bread and wine and Jesus offered the same means they are one and the same person is tenuous; bread and wine was a simple refreshment for the journey because it lasted the longest Deut 23:3-4 (ESV) 3 “No Ammonite or Moabite may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of them may enter the assembly of the Lord forever, 4 because they did not meet you with bread and with water on the way, Nehemiah 13:1-3 (ESV) 1 On that day they read from the Book of Moses in the hearing of the people. And in it was found written that no Ammonite or Moabite should ever enter the assembly of God, 2 for they did not meet the people of Israel with bread and water, but hired Balaam against them to curse them—yet our God turned the curse into a blessing. 3 As soon as the people heard the law, they separated from Israel all those of foreign descent. And Deut 2:29 as well. And note the similarity between that and the Last supper has been made hundreds of years before Oyaks was born. He did not receive this by revelation but by studying those before him To claim that Jesus walked on earth before He was born of Mary is heretical |
Re: Anti-tithers Are Playing On The Intelligence Of Nigerian Churches by gise: 7:57pm On Oct 19, 2014 |
Where did Jesus say pay tithe? How does tithe benefit god? Do u Christians follow the exact guidelines as set in the bible for the tithe in my opinion black people tend to blend the old with the new in the old African cults you had to bribe gods and make offer rings to priests and so called witch doctors to be blessed . So now this new thing comes along and says Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice but the black man mind no fit stan dis ting so tithe was kept to replace all the animal sacrifice and the pastor could replace the dibia and the babalawo or whatever 1 Like |
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