NRI PRIEST: Well,in order of popularity:

Ogwugwu Nri/Nshi
Ikenga Nshi/Nri.

These aare the only two deities that historians has identified as the most popular deities. Popular because almost all the communities in Igboland and beyond worshipped them.

I am waiting for you to tell me what made UbiniUkpabi the most important and how many communities whorshipped the oracle.

Even the apex Igbo group took her name from the most powerful and famous Nri deity,IKENGA. The group beign AKA-IKENGA. By the way Agbala is another name for Alusi/Deity/Oracle. Try again,mr revisionist!

You are very funny. The most popular deity in Igboland is Amadioha and it is an Aro thing. Most people started hearing about this Nri or Nshi while reading in school and not from their village or parents.

All of Igboland and beyond to Ijawland, Cameroun and Efik/Ibibio were consulting the Ibini Ukpabi or Chukwu.

Radoillo: I understand the point Chinenye is making here. Only very few communities travelled far distances. And because the number was so little, the impact wasn't really that much especially in areas far removed.

In the 1960s, Agukwu-Nri's population was put at 12,000. Awka's population in the mid-19th century was put at 18,000. These were people who travelled widely. But I think their respective populations were rather small relative to the areas they covered.

Let's say that out of the 18,000 Awka people, 4,000 were young men fit for travelling, the rest being women, old men, children and Ifite-Awka farmers who didn't travel like the rest of the town. Now take thees 4,000 men and spread them across the southeast and the south-south, plus sections of Kogi State. You'll find that the number of them who lived in certain areas would be so small that many people wouldn't even have taken much notice of their presence. Chinenye has probably never heard that there were Awka smiths in Ngwa. There might have been less than 50 Awka smiths in the whole of Ikwerre at any one point in time.

Thank you. I actually wanted to supplement my point with a hypothetical example of population and numbers, but I figured that I shouldn't have to. The consideration of traditions (or lack there of) should have been sufficient enough, but I guess it wasn't. I am aware of Awka smiths in Ohnuhnu/Ngwa traditions. That knowledge is actually part of the basis for my point. Ohnuhnu/Ngwa traditions acknowledge both Awka smiths and Nkwere traders. If knowledge of the region was truly as intimate as Pazienza hopes to assert, then I don't see what should stop Ohnuhnu/Ngwa from having had traditions that also acknowledged Nri, Nnewi, Idemili, etc. and vice versa. It's not complicated and it shouldn't be difficult to understand that intimate precolonial knowledge of the region should consequently have resulted in traditions that acknowledge such, of which we apparently lack.

Radoillo: U don't understand,

Odumchi was talking about ORACULAR deities, consulted by people from far and wide; not deities that were held in common by large chunks of Igboland (like Ikenga, Ifejioku, Ala/Ana, Eke, Oye etc).

People didn't come from Ijaw or Efik to consult the oracle of Ikenga-Nri, for example. (Ikenga-Nri didn't have an oracle as far as I know). But they came from such places and from throughout Igbo-speaking areas to consult Ubini Ukpabi.

Nke a o sokwu na ife a ga-eji mee argument?

And people did go on PILGRIMAGE to Agukwu. How many places in Igboland was was Ibini Ukpabi established ? Then compare that with howmany towns in Igboland and beyond that has the most famous deities in the whole of west Africa,Eke,Oye,Afor na Nkwo.

These deities were venerated in the whole of Igboland and beyond and days which formed the traditional Igbo days of week were name after them. If that isn't popularity tell me what is. How many towns in Igboland has Ubini Ukpabi ? Compare that with Ogwugwu Nshi and Ikenga Nshi,which went as far as Idoma,Igala,Uhrobo and Benin.
Nri bu Nkpologwu Igbo....Onye wee iwe nnie !

abagoro:

You are very funny. The most popular deity in Igboland is Amadioha and it is an Aro thing. Most people started hearing about this Nri or Nshi while reading in school and not from their village or parents.

All of Igboland and beyond to Ijawland, Cameroun and Efik/Ibibio were consulting the Ibini Ukpabi or Chukwu.

Amadioha was popular,quite alright but for you to say it is the most popular is a big fat lie. Amadioha was popular in southern of Igboland and Ikenga and the rest of Nri deities were popular in the whole of southern Nigeria. Benin doesn't know what is Amadioha,Idoma don't know it,Uhrobo don't,Igala don't. Compare that with the popularity of Ikenga.

NRI PRIEST:

And people did go on PILGRIMAGE to Agukwu. How many places in Igboland was was Ibini Ukpabi established ? Then compare that with howmany towns in Igboland and beyond that has the most famous deities in the whole of west Africa,Eke,Oye,Afor na Nkwo.

These deities were venerated in the whole of Igboland and beyond and days which formed the traditional Igbo days of week were name after them. If that isn't popularity tell me what is. How many towns in Igboland has Ubini Ukpabi ? Compare that with Ogwugwu Nshi and Ikenga Nshi,which went as far as Idoma,Igala,Uhrobo and Benin.
Nri bu Nkpologwu Igbo....Onye wee iwe nnie !

Ife bu isi okwu a bu na I maro ife Ibini Ukpabi bu. You don't seem to understand that Ibini Ukpabi and Ogwugwu were/are entirely different in function and significance.

Take another look at Radoillo's explanation:

Radoillo: U don't understand,

Odumchi was talking about ORACULAR deities, consulted by people from far and wide; not deities that were held in common by large chunks of Igboland (like Ikenga, Ifejioku, Ala/Ana, Eke, Oye etc).

People didn't come from Ijaw or Efik to consult the oracle of Ikenga-Nri, for example. (Ikenga-Nri didn't have an oracle as far as I know). But they came from such places and from throughout Igbo-speaking areas to consult Ubini Ukpabi.

Nke a o sokwu na ife a ga-eji mee argument?

Nri, this doesn't even have to be argued. O bu ihe dum akpaara ya isi okwu?

odumchi:

Ife bu isi okwu a bu na I maro ife Ibini Ukpabi bu. You don't seem to understand that Ibini Ukpabi and Ogwugwu were/are entirely different in function and significance.

Take another look at Radiollo's explanation:



This doesn't even have to be argued. O bu ihe dum akpaara ya isi okwu? Some arguments are shameful o.

Nna eh, when people come here and argue against generally accepted facts of Igbo history, I just get tired.

Did Ikenga have a unifying 'temple' in Nri to which pilgrims and those seeking justice from all those places you mentioned (Urhobo, Benin etc) turn to? Or was Ikenga a household deity which every man kept in his compound? When u understand d difference, u'll understand what Odumchi said about Ubini Ukpabi.

By the way Ikenga was restricted to Northern and Delta Igbo, and Igala, and Benin (where it existed as Ikegobo). It was never a Southern Nigerian phenomenon. Southern Igbos for the most part didn't know what Ikenga was.

NRI PRIEST:

Amadioha was popular,quite alright but for you to say it is the most popular is a big fat lie. Amadioha was popular in southern of Igboland and Ikenga and the rest of Nri deities were popular in the whole of southern Nigeria. Benin doesn't know what is Amadioha,Idoma don't know it,Uhrobo don't,Igala don't. Compare that with the popularity of Ikenga.

Both of you are wrong, the most popular deity not only in Igboland, but in southeastern Nigeria and the southern Cameroons is Ala. She is not only venerated by every Igbo community is some way, but she is also venerated by the Igala, Ibibio and acknowledged by communities as far as those of Tikar of southern Cameroon.

Ala is also the highest deity.

Radoillo:

Nna eh, when people come here and argue against generally accepted facts of Igbo history, I just get tired.

Lee kwanu o!

abagoro:

You are very funny. The most popular deity in Igboland is Amadioha and it is an Aro thing. Most people started hearing about this Nri or Nshi while reading in school and not from their village or parents.

All of Igboland and beyond to Ijawland, Cameroun and Efik/Ibibio were consulting the Ibini Ukpabi or Chukwu.

You lie a lot...

I don't think we've gotten it yet.

Odumchi, u should have used the word 'ORACULAR'. Perhaps it would have made things a little clearer.

Who consulted Ibini Ukpabi?

Was it not a god used to prosecute wars and to fraudulently sell people into slavery?

How popular is Ibini Ukpabi?
It's only when people talk about slavery and Aro that Ibini Ukpabi is mentioned.

Like NRI PRIEST mentioned.
Some people do not even know that Oye, Afo, Nkwo and Eke are gods and in some towns are the only gods available.
Those are Nri gods and are more popular than any other god except Ikenga and probably Amadioha.

By the way, Amadioha is not an alusi per se but a god similar to Agbara or Ana.

odumchi:

I nugo ife m gwalu I. Adiro agwa okenye ofu okwu ugboro ibua.

The question is: Is Ubini Ukpabi's name Okigbo or not or is it that the writer did not know what he was talking about?

People are fighting cultural supremacy battle for no reason. Nri contributed to Igbo culture and nobody has ever doubted that but Igbo originating from Nri is blatant falsehood, wickedness to the real Igbos and a gross misrepresentation of facts.

Arochukwu writers acknowledged their mixed Igbo+Ibibio heritage but Nri writers have deliberately refused to acknowledge their mixed Igbo+Igala heritage, but rather claimed they founded Igbo and Igala.

I don't have to argue with people again. Some people just depend totally on what they read from the internet. No personal research. But they will always claim to be great historians.

Some people don't seem to understand the meaning of "oracular".

Radoillo: I don't think we've gotten it yet.

Odumchi, u should have used the word 'ORACULAR'. Perhaps it would have made things a little clearer.

Odumchi actually did do that.

odumchi:

Why do you act as if you know everything?

The name "Aro Okigbo" was what other Igbo peoples called Arochukwu because it was the home of Ibini Ukpabi, the highest oracle in Igboland; the physical location of Chukwu himself. It had nothing to do with Aro being at the fringe of Igboland.

ChinenyeN: Some people don't seem to understand the meaning of "oracular".



Odumchi actually did do that.

I'm glad one other person understands that this isn't about the most important deity in the traditional Igbo belief system; that position belongs to Ala/Ali/Ani/Ana. There's never been a question about that.

ChinenyeN: Some people don't seem to understand the meaning of "oracular".



Odumchi actually did do that.

Now we are into grammar.
What's the difference between Oracle and Alusi?

Radoillo:


I'm glad one other person understands that this isn't about the most important deity in the traditional Igbo belief system; that position belongs to Ala/Ali/Ani/Ana. There's never been a question about that.

As well as Amadioha, Kamalu and Agbara.

Obiagu1: Like NRI PRIEST mentioned.
Some people do not even know that Oye, Afo, Nkwo and Eke are gods and in some towns are the only gods available.
Those are Nri gods and are more popular than any other god except Ikenga and probably Amadioha.

By the way, Amadioha is not an alusi per se but a god similar to Agbara or Ana.

Radoillo: I'm glad one other person understands that this isn't about the most important deity in the traditional Igbo belief system; that position belongs to Ala/Ali/Ani/Ana. There's never been a question about that.

Exactly. Also, I'm actually surprised to see some here trying to argue or otherwise delegitimize the function and scope of Ibini Ukpabi, as if to say that this aspect of religio-economic history is unverifiable.

Nobody said there is nothing like Ubuni Ukpabi but don't you try to overstretch its reach and Importance. Leave Ubini Ukpabi where it rightly belong,Aro and sorrounding towns like Ngwa, Ikwerre and the rest. Ubini Ukpabi was a deity used to sale slave and defraud people. Why wasn't Ubini Ukpabi,ozuzu,kamalu and the one from awka consecrated and venerated all over Igboland and beyong like Ikenga,the four ancient Igbo gods(Eke Oye Afor Nkwo) and Ogwugwu deities like Udo,Omena of Onicha,Ogwugwu Akpu Okija ?

Now there is a new way popularity is judged: And that is by how many people that visited you and not by HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT KNOWS you. Achuo ya na ubi ogaa na oba...lol. funny character.

Obiagu1:

As well as Amadioha, Kamalu and Agbara.

And the one from Ozuzu....I guess this revision was futile....

Yes,and Agbala/agbara is like "agwu" which is more like a "spiritual force" behind oracle.

Maybe some here need things to be explicitly spelled out to them.

It would seem that deities in Igboland can be divided into two "deity classes" (for lack of a better expression right now). These classes are the Oracular and the Non-Oracular. The Non-Oracular deities are typically characterized by veneration, worship and ritual. The Oracular deities are typically characterized by their divinatory nature, and their oracles are often consulted for that purpose, as opposed to being venerated. Hence, oracular.

Ibini Ukpabi, Amadioha/Kamalu, Agbala are in the Oracular class. In this class of deity, Ibini Ukpabi is undeniably the most renown.

Ala/Ali/Ana/Ani, Ekwesu, Ikenga, etc. fall into the Non-Oracular class. In this class of deity, that of Ala is number one.

Now, these classes not withstanding, Ala is undeniably the most paramount by a long shot.

NRI PRIEST: Nobody said there is nothing like Ubuni Ukpabi but don't you try to overstretch its reach and Importance. Leave Ubini Ukpabi where it rightly belong,Aro and sorrounding towns like Ngwa, Ikwerre and the rest. Ubini Ukpabi was a deity used to sale slave and defraud people. Why wasn't Ubini Ukpabi,ozuzu,kamalu and the one from awka consecrated and venerated all over Igboland and beyong like Ikenga,the four ancient Igbo gods(Eke Oye Afor Nkwo) and Ogwugwu deities like Udo,Omena of Onicha,Ogwugwu Akpu Okija ?

Now there is a new way popularity is judged: And that is by how many people that visited you and not by HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT KNOWS you. Achuo ya na ubi ogaa na oba...lol. funny character.

Ibinu Ukpabi is the Chief oracle of Southern Nigeria and nothing more. The Amadioha and Umonoha oracles at Etche and Isu were also founded by Aros. In terms of popularity Amadioha is like the Sango of Igboland and Chukwu is today used as the God of all Gods in Igboland. Many people do not even know that it originated from Arochuku.

I think this thread is about origin of Igbos and not the most influential Igbos. By the time Edo/Bini people come to claim the origin of Benin styled Kingship in one part of Igboland then another argument will start on which Kingship is superior whether Idu, Aro or Nri.

NRI PRIEST: Nobody said there is nothing like Ubuni Ukpabi Nri but don't you try to overstretch its reach and Importance. Leave Ubini Ukpabi Nri where it rightly belong,Aro Agukwu Nri and sorrounding towns like Ngwa, Ikwerre Nkpor, Obosi and the rest.

^^^^ Ochi lei!

An Oracle

1) Is particular to a location, a town. It doesn't have its shrines diffused all over the place (like Ala, Njoku, etc).

2) People from far beyond the borders of the PARTICULAR town where the oracle is situated, recognize its power and are willing to surrender to its judgement. And travelled all the way to the PARTICULAR town where the oracle is located.

3) People seeking to consult the oracle come to that single PARTICULAR town where the oracle has its abode from far away.


ORDINARY DEITIES
1) Ala is in every town. No one travels from Abakiliki to consult Ala in Isuikwuato.

2) The Ala of Isuikwuato does not judge cases in Aba-Ngwa. Ibini-Ukpabi (an Oracle) of Arochukwu could and actually did settle disputes in places as far away as Nembe, Bonny, Onitsha.

3) The Ikenga owned by Okeke of Aguluezigbo cannot be consulted by Okafor of the same Aguluezigbo. In other words Okeke's Ikenga has power only in Okeke's compound.


ARE WE GETTING A HANG OF WHAT AN ORACLE IS, AND WHAT AN ORDINARY DEITY IS?

Radoillo: An Oracle

1) Is particular to a location, a town. It doesn't have its shrines diffused all over the place (like Ala, Njoku, etc).

2) People from far beyond the borders of the PARTICULAR town where the oracle is situated, recognize its power and are willing to surrender to its judgement. And travelled all the way to the PARTICULAR town where the oracle is located.

3) People seeking to consult the oracle come to that single PARTICULAR town where the oracle has its abode from far away.


ORDINARY DEITIES
1) Ala is in every town. No one travels from Abakiliki to consult Ala in Isuikwuato.

2) The Ala of Isuikwuato does not judge cases in Aba-Ngwa. Ibini-Ukpabi (an Oracle) of Arochukwu could and actually did settle disputes in places as far away as Nembe, Bonny, Onitsha.

3) The Ikenga owned by Okeke of Aguluezigbo cannot be consulted by Okafor of the same Aguluezigbo. In other words Okeke's Ikenga has power only in Okeke's compound.


ARE WE GETTING A HANG OF WHAT AN ORACLE IS, AND WHAT AN ORDINARY DEITY IS?

What exactly do u mean by Oracular n "Ordinary" deities?.Are such deities as Edo-Ezemewi,Ogwugwu EzeKwuabor,Udo,Akpu Umudim less oracular in function than say,Mmiri chukwu (yes,that's what we call Ubinu Ukpabi) as to be termed "ordinary" by the likes of u?.U once claimed to be familiar with that part of Nnewi where Ogwugwu EzeKwuabor is located,what is that common (read popular) saying held about the deity?.
@Op,absolute nonsense.This is but symptomatic of that Ikwerre virus that has long infected Abagworo,the less reasonable people respond to it the more swift his speed to recovery is sure to be.

^^^ The answer you are looking for has been explained in two independent posts (one of which you just quoted). Nonetheless, I'll do my best to further clarify for you.

What do you ordinarily think of when you think of "deities"? Answer: Gods/goddesses that are venerated & worshiped, surrounded by ritual and myth and mysticism. Hence, ordinary deity. This is unlike oracular deities, whose primary functions include prophecy, divination and consulting via oracles. Hence, oracular deity.

ChinenyeN: ^^^ The answer you are looking for has been explained in two independent posts (one of which you just quoted). Nonetheless, I'll do my best to further clarify for you.

What do you ordinarily think of when you think of "deities"? Answer: Gods/goddesses that are venerated & worshiped, surrounded by ritual and myth and mysticism. Hence, ordinary deity. This is unlike oracular deities, whose primary functions include prophecy, divination and consulting via oracles. Hence, oracular deity.

And u still missed the forest for the trees.My question still stands,what made such deities as named in my earlier posts less oracular in function than say,Ubinu Ukpabi?.Going by qualities u listed,they all are oracular.
I daresay u know little or nothing of listed deities,not even sure u know much of ur own Ngwa deities.I would have loved Radoillo to answer my question since he's familiar with those deities I listed n what they do/do not do.Yet he went ahead to make such asinine assertion.
Btw,said deities are variants/structured after the Ogwugwu.