Kay 17:

God does accept human sacrifice except if the quality of the sacrifice is questionable.

Jephthah was a man of faith who heeded God's prohibition against human sacrifice.

"And you shall not let any of your seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am the LORD" (Leviticus 18:21).

It is only the worshipers of Baal and pro-choice adherents that commit human sacrifice.

OLAADEGBU:

Japhthah was a man of faith who heeded God's prohibition against human sacrifice.

"And you shall not let any of your seed pass through the fire to Molech, neither shall you profane the name of your God: I am the LORD" (Leviticus 18:21).

It is only the worshipers of Baal and pro-choice adherents that commit human sacrifice.

I respect you truly.. you have been around long enough and you can never say enough about the Scriptures.. but on this one I find you wanting @bolded

Jephtah as not a Man of Faith (What does this mean truly) and his Character was no where close to Righteous neither was his role as Judge of Isreal, it was neither anointed nor willingly desired.

The Bible tells us in plain terms
1: He was born of a Harlot and Rejected by his Family and cast out to tob. This event will go on to build his Character in Life
2: He was a roughshod , roguish , thuggish brute who "....gathered around him some worthless ["empty"] men, and they went out with him." (Judges 11:3) in today's view.. he will be seen as an Area boy or Bakassi boy or MEND even.
3: it was in this mien that the people of Gilead called upon him to deliver them from the ammonites for which he would become their King if successful. This was motivation enough, it was incentive enough to seek God's "Paid Assistance" If you give me this, I will give you this

It is within this character set that this warrior called on God for assistance to defeat the ammonites and with benefits if God was favorable to his request-- the life of whomever steps out of his house. All through his life as a human being uptill his battle with the ammonites, he was not a Man of Faith but a Man of Opportunity.

This is just what I wanted to clear up.
Thanks

voltron:

I respect you truly.. you have been around long enough and you can never say enough about the Scriptures.. but on this one I find you wanting @bolded

Jephtah as not a Man of Faith (What does this mean truly) and his Character was no where close to Righteous neither was his role as Judge of Isreal, it was neither anointed nor willingly desired.

The Bible tells us in plain terms
1: He was born of a Harlot and Rejected by his Family and cast out to tob. This event will go on to build his Character in Life
2: He was a roughshod , roguish , thuggish brute who "....gathered around him some worthless ["empty"] men, and they went out with him." (Judges 11:3) in today's view.. he will be seen as an Area boy or Bakassi boy or MEND even.
3: it was in this mien that the people of Gilead called upon him to deliver them from the ammonites for which he would become their King if successful. This was motivation enough, it was incentive enough to seek God's "Paid Assistance" If you give me this, I will give you this

It is within this character set that this warrior called on God for assistance to defeat the ammonites and with benefits if God was favorable to his request-- the life of whomever steps out of his house. All through his life as a human being uptill his battle with the ammonites, he was not a Man of Faith but a Man of Opportunity.

This is just what I wanted to clear up.
Thanks

The Scriptures proves you wrong and calls Japhthah a man of faith. He was named among the heroes of faith in the the book of Hebrews chapter of faith.

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel and of the prophets" (Hebrew 11:31-33).

OLAADEGBU:

The Scriptures proves you wrong and calls Japhthah a man of faith. He was named among the heroes of faith in the the book of Hebrews chapter of faith.

"By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace. And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gideon, and of Barak, and of Samson and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel and of the prophets" (Hebrew 11:31-33).

I agree with you.. such a victory would not go un-rewarded by Men don't you think?

voltron:

I agree with you.. such a victory would not go un-rewarded by Men don't you think?

What do you mean by un-rewarded by Men?

Alfa Seltzer:

I want agree that she wasn't burnt BUT my problem is this: What exactly did her father do to her then? Seal her vagina?

He dedicated her to God's service at the tabernacle, as Hannah later dedicated Samuel (1 Samuel 1:11).

OLAADEGBU:

He dedicated her to God's service at the tabernacle, as Hannah later dedicated Samuel (1 Samuel 1:11).

That cannot stop her from being bleeped.

Alfa Seltzer:

That cannot stop her from being bleeped.

She was a perpetual servant at the tabernacle, that meant she could never have a husband and children, she "bewailed her virginity" for two months (not her impending death) and then "returned to her father," so that he could keep his vow, and throughout her life, "she knew no man" (Judges 11:38,39).

OLAADEGBU:

She was a perpetual servant at the tabernacle, that meant she could never have a husband and children, she "bewailed her virginity" for two months (not her impending death) and then "returned to her father," so that he could keep his vow, and throughout her life, "she knew no man" (Judges 11:38,39).

But she could still have had sex?

Alfa Seltzer:

But she could still have had sex?

What part of "she knew no man" in (Judges 11:38,39) don't you understand?

OLAADEGBU:

What part of "she knew no man" in (Judges 11:38,39) don't you understand?

The part where her dad did something to her to make sure she doesn't have sex ever again. Dedicating her to the temple is not enough. It is not 100% guarantee of no more sex. She could change her mind. She could be raped. So what was the exact thing the dad did to make 100% sure of no more sex for her daughter?

Alfa Seltzer:

The part where her dad did something to her to make sure she doesn't have sex ever again. Dedicating her to the temple is not enough. It is not 100% guarantee of no more sex. She could change her mind. She could be raped. So what was the exact thing the dad did to make 100% sure of no more sex for her daughter?

Instead of a strange tale of human sacrifice as you skeptics would have loved to hear, this is the story of the love of a God-fearing father and daughter for each other and for their Lord.

Ola is right, Levites, Priests and Nazerites who all dedicated their lives to God never had sex.

Japhthah sacrificed his daughter, he made an open vow. He didnt specify, it followed then that his daughter had to be sacrificed.

Mark 6: 17-29

"17 For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled[c]; yet he liked to listen to him.

21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 When the daughter of[d] Herodias came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests.

The king said to the girl, “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” 23 And he promised her with an oath, “Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom.”

24 She went out and said to her mother, “What shall I ask for?”

“The head of John the Baptist,” she answered.

25 At once the girl hurried in to the king with the request: “I want you to give me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.”

26 The king was greatly distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he did not want to refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John’s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison, 28 and brought back his head on a platter. He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother. 29 On hearing of this, John’s disciples came and took his body and laid it in a tomb."

The problem was that Herod said the following “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” he swore an oath and as such was bound by it. An oath must be fulfilled according to the law. Its an oath that killed Japhthas daughter, its also an oath that killed John the baptist.

Oaths were so onerous and deadly that Jesus abolished them under the new covenant.

Matthew 5 :33-37

"33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

It is now a sin to make an oath Good or Bad, as you have no control of whether or not you can fulfill it. Just say YES or NO. If you make an oath under the New Covenant its a sin, But you will also be bound buy it.

Oaths werent abolished just because a girl couldnt marry. It because many people died because of oaths, some of which were not even made by the people who died. As a man I could bind my wife and kids under oath without them even knowing.

Kay 17:

Ola is right, Levites, Priests and Nazerites who all dedicated their lives to God never had sex.

Thank God you're wrong.

OLAADEGBU:

Thank God you're wrong.

OLAADEGBU:

Thank God you're wrong.

Thank you for correcting me, so there exists no tradition among Jewish clergy on celibacy. In that case, there isn't a tradition for Jepthaph's daughter to follow, thereby being a celibate as dedication to God!

Kay 17:

Thank you for correcting me, so there exists no tradition among Jewish clergy on celibacy. In that case, there isn't a tradition for Jepthaph's daughter to follow, thereby being a celibate as dedication to God!

Did you read the fact that she "bewailed her virginity" for two months (not her impending death) and then "returned to her father," so that he could keep his vow, and throughout her life, "she knew no man" (Judges 11:38,39)?

timothycel:

Japhthah sacrificed his daughter, he made an open vow. He didnt specify, it followed then that his daughter had to be sacrificed.

Mark 6: 17-29

"17 For Herod himself had given orders to have John arrested, and he had him bound and put in prison. He did this because of Herodias, his brother Philip’s wife, whom he had married. 18 For John had been saying to Herod, “It is not lawful for you to have your brother’s wife.” 19 So Herodias nursed a grudge against John and wanted to kill him. But she was not able to, 20 because Herod feared John and protected him, knowing him to be a righteous and holy man. When Herod heard John, he was greatly puzzled[c]; yet he liked to listen to him.

21 Finally the opportune time came. On his birthday Herod gave a banquet for his high officials and military commanders and the leading men of Galilee. 22 When the daughter of[d] Herodias came in and danced, she pleased Herod and his dinner guests.

The king said to the girl, “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” 23 And he promised her with an oath, “Whatever you ask I will give you, up to half my kingdom.”

24 She went out and said to her mother, “What shall I ask for?”

“The head of John the Baptist,” she answered.

25 At once the girl hurried in to the king with the request: “I want you to give me right now the head of John the Baptist on a platter.”

26 The king was greatly distressed, but because of his oaths and his dinner guests, he did not want to refuse her. 27 So he immediately sent an executioner with orders to bring John’s head. The man went, beheaded John in the prison, 28 and brought back his head on a platter. He presented it to the girl, and she gave it to her mother. 29 On hearing of this, John’s disciples came and took his body and laid it in a tomb."

The problem was that Herod said the following “Ask me for anything you want, and I’ll give it to you.” he swore an oath and as such was bound by it. An oath must be fulfilled according to the law. Its an oath that killed Japhthas daughter, its also an oath that killed John the baptist.

Oaths were so onerous and deadly that Jesus abolished them under the new covenant.

Matthew 5 :33-37

"33 “Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘Do not break your oath, but fulfill to the Lord the vows you have made.’ 34 But I tell you, do not swear an oath at all: either by heaven, for it is God’s throne; 35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. 36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. 37 All you need to say is simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything beyond this comes from the evil one."

It is now a sin to make an oath Good or Bad, as you have no control of whether or not you can fulfill it. Just say YES or NO. If you make an oath under the New Covenant its a sin, But you will also be bound buy it.

Oaths werent abolished just because a girl couldnt marry. It because many people died because of oaths, some of which were not even made by the people who died. As a man I could bind my wife and kids under oath without them even knowing.

Vows taken according to the will/word of God is what we are talking about. Does human sacrifice qualify as the will of God?

A vow is a vow, once it is made it is binding. That is what Got John the baptist killed as well as Jephthas daughter. Jephtha didnt vow to sacrifice his daughter, he vowed to sacrifice the first thing that came to greet him. In his mind and experience it was always one of his animals who would come to greet him first.But on this occasion it was Gods will that his daughter came to greet him first.

This is a lesson for you and me, that we should not swear oaths etc. We have no control over what happens to us, that is why Jesus says do not swear an oath. Just say yes or no, anything beyond that is evil. When you swear an oath you are implying that you have control over everything, yet you could die the same day without fulfilling it. Does dying release you from your duty?

timothycel:

A vow is a vow, once it is made it is binding. That is what Got John the baptist killed as well as Jephthas daughter. Jephtha didnt vow to sacrifice his daughter, he vowed to sacrifice the first thing that came to greet him. In his mind and experience it was always one of his animals who would come to greet him first.But on this occasion it was Gods will that his daughter came to greet him first.

This is a lesson for you and me, that we should not swear oaths etc. We have no control over what happens to us, that is why Jesus says do not swear an oath. Just say yes or no, anything beyond that is evil. When you swear an oath you are implying that you have control over everything, yet you could die the same day without fulfilling it. Does dying release you from your duty?

Are you aware that any vow for human sacrifice apart from Christ is an abomination to God?

This is very simple, Jephtha vow to sacrifice a human. He made an oath to sacrifice the first thing that came to greet him. It happened that his daughter was the first thing to greet him. Its not the only time a seemingly innocent oath got someone killed. John the baptist suffered a similar fate when Herodias daughter asked for his head, yet the oath Herod swore was not specifically about John.

The oath could not have been stated as follows:"If I am victorious in battle I will offer my daughter as a sacrifice" This would not have been binding. Instead he said the first thing, it could have been a cow or sheep or anything. He didnt expect that it would be his daughter.

God could have easily made it such that a sheep come and greet him. Instead it was his daugher. This is a lesson for you and for me on the perils of making oaths. This is why they were abolished. Because we cant control the world around us, which is why Jesus says do not swear an oath "And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black"

Any oath that you make, with Good intention or bad is evil in the sight of God. Oaths were abolished for the very reasons I stated previously, ie people who were not part of making any oath suffer and die due to oaths.

Jephthas daughter, John the baptist etc are reasons why oaths were abolished.

Otherwise why were they abolished?

OLAADEGBU:

Are you aware that any vow for human sacrifice apart from Christ is an abomination to God?

Tell again why Jesus'sacrifice was important? So also isn't there a rank? A sheep is more valuable than a pigeon, so also Jesus than any other man, doesn't it then follow that humans are more valuable than pigeons and sheep?!

Kay 17:

Tell again why Jesus'sacrifice was important? So also isn't there a rank? A sheep is more valuable than a pigeon, so also Jesus than any other man, doesn't it then follow that humans are more valuable than pigeons and sheep?!

Jesus Christ, who is God in human form, came to earth as a man, lived a sinless life, and died to pay the penalty for sin. He is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.

Name one person who had no sin who was qualified for a human sacrifice?

"The sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to the Lord" (Proverbs 15:8a).