Sissie:

Theirs no compulsion in religion, truth stands clear from falsehood.

Seriously!!!! We the "gang", most of us had civil conversation on here, we even agreed that some of what you wrote had some truths in it. And you are here writing about how if it was Muslim section your thread would have been closed, this is so not true Shia's thread are still in the section and we do argue and discuss about it, the mod your talking about even recommended al baqir thread and it made front page.

If we had refused to comment, it would be tagged as us not wanting to discuss. You wish you would have been dealt with in islamic gatherings.

beejaay: Ahah they av tranfered d thread down here (i don dey c warnings). @op bye bye cos i dnt wanna b banne or av my post hidden for silly reasons.. Kei this ppl ehn

vedaxcool: The op was used and now has been dumped, the same people who tolerated his thread for this long did so not because they are interested in learning anything about Islam but simply because it mainly conveys what they want to hear, had this thread been about why you should be a muslim or Muhammad pbuh , this thread would have been thrown within few seconds of its arrival, why? Allah says,

“They intend to put out the Light of Allaah (i.e. the religion of Islam, this Qur’aan, and Prophet Muhammad) with their mouths. But Allaah will bring His Light to perfection even though the disbelievers hate (it).

He it is Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islamic Monotheism) to make it victorious over all (other) religions even though the Mushrikoon (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, and disbelievers in the Oneness of Allaah and in His Messenger Muhammad) hate (it)”[al-Saff :8-9]

beejaay:
arguments in islamic section ke all u guys do there is behave like zombies, always afraid to offend the lord there (aka maclatinji and tbaba.. they are the lords of islamic section and all they say is final, the prophets of our time)... say anything contrary to what they say and u will be banned..

if this topic was posted on Islamic thread, almost all supporting arguments would have been banned or even have the thread banned sef....

learning ke for that islamic section DAMN!!!!! any contrary view is banned and termed anti-islamic as if they have monopoly for islamic definition

@op u get sense for posting the thread here at the general section

tbaba1234: Salam,

I am writing this with the hope that you are willing to listen and revert. What you have written show a lack of education in the Islamic sciences with all due respect and it is not necessarily your fault. I am writing so that you do not misinform people unknowingly.

Hopefully, with the evidence provided you will change some of these ill-advised views and i would also acknowledge the ones that are correct.

You should not be concerned about pleasing people, you must be concerned about the truth. I was going to send a private message but i think it is important for others to see this as well so please forgive me for that.

You seem to have stated your personal opinions with very little evidences.

i. ISLAMIC NAMES : mostly incorrect and i use my word very carefully. Let's start with something correct.

A convert to Islam do not have to change their names unless it has a meaning that is not good. One of my imams was named charles. I have muslim friends with names like Joel, etc...

The messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) did change the names of some new muslims in cases where the names have bad meanings.
For Instance:

i. 'Asiya (Disobedient) to Jamila (Beautiful)

Ibn 'Umar reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) changed the name of 'Asiya (Disobedient) and said: You are Jamila (i. e. good and handsome). Ahmad (one of the narrators) narrated it with a slight variation of wording. Muslim :: Book 25 : Hadith 5332

ii. Abdul-Shams (Slave of the sun) to Abdul-Rahman (Slave of the Merciful God) - Abu Hurairah

There are some other examples:

Narrated AbuWahb, Hazn ibn AbuWahb:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) asked: What is your name? He replied: Hazn (rugged). He said: You are Sahl (smooth). He said: No, smooth is trodden upon and disgraced. Sa'id said: I then thought that ruggedness would remain among us after it. AbuDawud said: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) changed the names al-'As, Aziz, Atalah, Shaytan, al-Hakam, Ghurab, Hubab, and Shihab and called him Hisham.

He changed the name Harb (war) and called him Silm (peace).
He changed the name al-Munba'ith (one who lies) and called him al-Mudtaji' (one who stands up).
He changed the name of a land Afrah (barren) and called it Khadrah (green).
He changed the name Shi'b ad-Dalalah (the mountain path of a stray), the name of a mountain path and called it Shi'b al-Huda (mountain path of guidance).
He changed the name Banu az-Zinyah (children of fornication) and called them Banu ar-Rushdah (children of those who are on the right path),
and changed the name Banu Mughwiyah (children of a woman who allures and goes astray), and called them Banu Rushdah (children of a woman who is on the right path).
AbuDawud said: I omitted the chains of these for the sake of brevity. ( Dawud :: Book 41 : Hadith 4938 )

Therefore if the names does not have a bad meaning then it doesn't matter. You do not have to change to an Arabic name but the Arabic is very important. Trust me, you have no clue what is lost in translation. Translations only give you something of the meaning. A feel of the meaning.

As regards the name Allah..

First of all, the Quran is only the Quran in Arabic... Your english translation is not your Quran.

Alif Lam Ra These are the verses of the Scripture that makes things clear––We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur
an [/b]so that you [people] may understand. (Surah 12:1-2)

An Arabic Quran...

[b]So We have sent down the Qur
an to give judgement in the Arabic language. If you were to follow their desires, after the knowledge that has come to you, you would have no one to guard you or protect you from God. (Surah 13:37)

We have sent the Qur
an down in the Arabic tongue and given all kinds of warnings in it, so that they may beware or take heed– (Surah 20:113)


Truly, this Qur
an has been sent down by the Lord of the alamin: the Trustworthy Spirit brought it down to your heart [Prophet], so that you could bring warning in a clear Arabic tongue. (Surah 26:192-195)


I could go on and on,... Fact: the Quran is in Arabic, not in english or spanish or french...

So you might ask, but we have translations right?? Translations should do right??

Well, not quite.. Actually translations do not even begin to capture the Quran..
[b]
Just one word: Al rahman.....

golpen: Mr username is a very wonderful person. He's a good diplomat according to this following definition; someone who tells a fool to go to hell in such a way that the poor guy looks forward to the trip. He has a point in some aspects, but his massive flaws cannot be exaggerated.

Imagine he has a problem with an arab reading the Qur'an and still has to go deep into the explanation (tafsir), because he feels the arab man can understand the text? But I'm so sure he must have passed through a level of schooling for him to have written a well constructed text. Then let's ask him why he attended those classes since he understands english enough for him to have gone through that textbook on his own.

His christian supporters should also think that they have been foolish to attend sunday schools and bible colleges, instead of reading the bible themselves. Please react to my earlier post and let's see if you've learnt something.

Don't mind username, he's just one of those impersonators that claim to be a muslim. ALLAH has spoken of shaitan in suratu yaasin 60-63 and his mission of leading so many people astray, our mr username is just one of his devices, so muslims BEWARE!!!

usermane:

09.
ISLAMIC CALENDAR

As if it has any Islamic or divine origin, some people call it Islamic calendar. The appropriate name is "arab lunar calendar". Ancient pagans, moon worshippers, and Jews used this calendar long before Qur'an revealation. The arab muslims didn't invent it. Even the month names have no divine or Islamic meaning. For instance "Muharram" mean "forbidden","Safar" mean "empty". These months were named after the weather or seasons of arabs at that time. History also imply that the ancient arabs even before Prophet Muhammad may have used the lunar or lunisolar calendars with the same month names as today arabs do.



Those who still insist that the current arab lunar calendar is GOD only 's chosen calendar should beware. The word "month" occured 12 times in the Qur'an and the word "day" occured 365 times. The arab and gregorian calendar have 12 months. The gregorian calendar has 365 days!This is a sign for the intelligent, this is not mere coincidence. The arab calendar, however has 354 days.


Some muslims will still call the arabic lunar calendar, the best or most accurate. This again has no justification. Moon sighting is a delicate process prone to errors.

usermane: Now, on to GOD. "ALLAH" is not the exclusive name for our Creator,this has no Scriptural proof. "ALLAH" is only the arabic word for "GOD". And "GOD" is understood as an unfathomable,supreme entity(Qur'an 2:255), not just a name. The only reason why the Qur'an used the word "ALLAH" is because the Qur'an was revealed to an arab man,hence it had to be in arabic, "ALLAH" being the arab 's word for "GOD". Previous scriptures weren't in arabic, like Torah(Old testament) and Gospel(New testament). Hence "GOD" didn't call Himself "ALLAH" in those scriptures.


In old testament, exodus 6:2-3~ GOD called Himself "YAHWEH" and told us that Abraham and his progeny knew HIM as "EL SHADDAI". So Moses called GOD, "YAHWEH" and Abraham called GOD "EL SHADDAI", not as "ALLAH".

Before Qur'an revealation,arab jews referred to "GOD" as "ALLAH",arab christians referred to "Jesus or GOD" as "ALLAH"(Qur'an 5:18, 2:116). The arab pagans also referred to "GOD" as "ALLAH",although they associated partners with HIM(Qur'an 39:38). It is an historical fact that even before Qur'an, "ALLAH" was the name of one of the pagan gods or idols.


Lastly the word "ALLAH" is simply a conjunction of al(the) and illah(god/diety) which form "the god/diety(ALLAH)" when combined. Nothing more about it.


GOD tells us in the final testament that we can call Him with any respected name we prefer, He has no specific name. And to Him belong the most beautiful names(Qur'an 7:180, 17:110).

usermane:
08.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS INFALLIBLE AND PERFECT



I hope you are not one of those who believe Prophet Muhammad was perfect,sinnless and had knowledge of the future beyond the Final testament. Else this post is yours. An educated acknowledger of GOD shouldn't follow such an erroneous conception. To compound the problem, there are those who even consider all his sahabas(friends/companions) as perfect infallible surbodinates who should be emulated,who learned and delivered accurately the truth, who the the prophet guaranteed success in Hereafter even before their death. Yet, according to Qur'an,there were bad eggs among these companions whose identity were never exposed. (Qur'an 9:101, 63:1,33:60)


We hear numerous things about the prophet. Like many muslim said he was sinnless,he didn't make mistakes in action or decision,all his deeds were divinely inspired, even his personal opinions were divine,binding upon all muslims. According to some, he smelt like perfume, he didn't have shadow, he had instant healing powers, he could bless or curse anyone.
Look at all these. Can these be true? We 'll soon know. In as much as GOD wants mankind, to obey HIS messenger, HE is fully aware that mankind have the tendency to cross the limit, setting the messenger as an idol. That is why GOD left down verses in HIS Book to guide.

usermane:
08.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS INFALLIBLE AND PERFECT



I hope you are not one of those who believe Prophet Muhammad was perfect,sinnless and had knowledge of the future beyond the Final testament. Else this post is yours. An educated acknowledger of GOD shouldn't follow such an erroneous conception. To compound the problem, there are those who even consider all his sahabas(friends/companions) as perfect infallible surbodinates who should be emulated,who learned and delivered accurately the truth, who the the prophet guaranteed success in Hereafter even before their death. Yet, according to Qur'an,there were bad eggs among these companions whose identity were never exposed. (Qur'an 9:101, 63:1,33:60)


We hear numerous things about the prophet. Like many muslim said he was sinnless,he didn't make mistakes in action or decision,all his deeds were divinely inspired, even his personal opinions were divine,binding upon all muslims. According to some, he smelt like perfume, he didn't have shadow, he had instant healing powers, he could bless or curse anyone.
Look at all these. Can these be true? We 'll soon know. In as much as GOD wants mankind, to obey HIS messenger, HE is fully aware that mankind have the tendency to cross the limit, setting the messenger as an idol. That is why GOD left down verses in HIS Book to guide.

usermane: A. Prophet Muhammad was a man like us,not infalible and had his fair share of physical and mental flaws like everyone.

"Say (0 messenger): 'I am only a man like you. It has been reavealed to me that GOD is One. So whoever hopes for the Meeting with his LORD, let him be righteous and associate non as a partner in the worship of his LORD.' "(Qur'an 18:110)

"Say(O messenger): ' I am only a human being like you. It is reavealed to me that your GOD is One. Hence take the Straight Path to Him and seek forgiveness of Him. And woe to the idol worshippers.' " (Qur'an 41:6)

usermane:
C. He commited mistakes and sins and was alerted by GOD in some cases(e.g Qur'an 80:1-10)

"So be patient, for GOD 's promise is true, and seek forgiveness for your sin, and glorify and praise HIM at dusk and dawn" (Qur'an 40:55)

usermane: 07.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD WAS THE GREATEST MESSENGER


Another misconception,without scriptural basis,stark contradiction to Qur'an and big insult to other messengers of GOD. Yet supported by most muslims and their clerics. So these muslim praise him,celebrate his birthday and some claim GOD created the universe because of him. They add S.A.W after the mention of his name but only add A.S or nothing after that of the other messengers. They forbid any form of depicting him either in picture or drama, react when he is spoken ill of but care less about other messengers. All in all, they give more distinction to muhammad than any other messengers, whereas GOD did not. This is sin.




(Quran 2:285) ".... They(believer) say 'we make no distinction between one another among them(messengers)' and they(believer) say
'we hear and we obey'.
Qur'an 3:84 repeat the same assertion; Do not make distinction among GOD 's messenger.
To make distinction mean, to separate persons into ranks or rate them. Hence one must stop pointing Muhammad as the greatest of all messengers. One must stop preferring one messanger over the others for any function or rating one messenger above or below another,in any aspect.


Muhammad was not different from other messengers of GOD.
46:09 Say; I am not an innovation among the messengers,nor do i know what will be done to me or with you. I follow but which is revealed to me by inspiration; i am but a warner open and clear.....

usermane: 10.
ISLAMIC NAMES


Minor? But significant. To be fair and square, most muslims believe there is a terminology known as Islamic Names. Most times, you see parent giving their giving their babies such Musa, Amina e.t.c and feeling like a million. Convert to Islam are pressed to changed their original name to the so called Islamic names for better, for worse. Additionally they insist that the name of the Almighty Creator is "ALLAH" and "GOD, JEHOVAH OR LORD" musn't be used to replace "ALLAH", for any reason. If you are from missouri, you won't accept this dogma, be you muslim or not.


First and foremost, there is no such thing as Islamic names, and what most muslims are referring to are arabic names and not all arabic names have beautiful meanings. Let us flesh out the last sentence. For instance, the names of persons like messengers in the Qur'an does not refer to the original names but the names by which such persons were referred to by Arabs before Qur'an revealations. For instance Moses was called Moshes by GOD in the Torah,just as the isrealites know him. Jesus was called Yeshua by GOD in the Gospel, the name by which the isrealites knew him. Nowhere in GOD 's previous scriptures did HE call Moses or Jesus as Musa or Isa. So which ones is the Islamic names, the original hebrew names or the derived arabic names? Your answer should be non, no such thing as Islamic names.



Long before Qur'an, arab pagans,christians and Jews had such names as Aisha, Muhammad,Mustapha, Halimah e.t.c. Some of then embranced Islam without changing their names. Even today arab non Muslims still give themselves such names. There are fine non arabic names like Elizabeth(GOD is satisfaction) or Lois(Holy), with respectful meaning. Yet muslims reject them.

Our names are reflection of our different backgrounds and languages/tribes which is among GOD 's awesome sign(Qur'an 30:22). So why try mask GOD 's sign by discriminating against non arabic names or insisting all muslim chose arabic names

usermane:
06.
PROPHET MUHAMMAD DELIVERED ALL ISLAMIC RITES.


Islamic rites are Salat(Prayer), Zakat(Obligatory charity), Fasting(Ramadan), Pilgrimage. This is a very popular misconception. Abraham, not Muhammad established this rites and these were practiced & passed down generations after generations by believers and subsequent messengers of GOD.

Qur'an 2:127-128 :
As Abraham raise the foundation of the sanctuary with Ishmael, (they said) "Our LORD, accept this from us....". "Our LORD let us peacefully surrender to YOU and from our progeny, a nation peacefully surrendering to YOU. And show us our RITES and forgive us.....

However, the Jews and Christians lost these rites(Qur'an 19:59) and that is why you hardly find them perform any of these rites. However, the world is very vast, there could still be very few jews and christians though rare, performing some of these rites.



Abraham invoked GOD for Salat
Qur'an 14:37
Qur,an 14:40 "My LORD, let me hold salat(prayer), and also my descendants..."

Zakat was establised and practiced from Abraham.
Quran 21:73 We made them leaders who guide by our command, and We inspired them to do good and hold the salat and zakat....

usermane:
05.
ONLY 'MUSLIMS' WILL INHERIT PARADISE

The definition that; Anyone who claim to believe in Qur'an is a Muslim is wrong. And the notion that ; 'only muslims will inherit Paradise' more wrong in the context of most speakers.
According to GOD, those who believe without setting up partners and are righteous the true muslims who will enter paradise.

Qur'an 2:62, 5:69
"Those who believe, and those who are Jews and Christians, who believes in GOD and ressurection and work righteousness, on them shall be no fear or grief".
This is the minimum requirement to inherit paradise.

The name 'muslim' is not restricted to those who accepted Qur'an. And that one accepted Qur'an doesn't automatically make him a 'muslim'. Before Abraham there were muslims among the people of Noah, Ad or Thalmud, they believed in GOD 's messengers but did not perform salat,zakat,fasting or pilgrimage, as they were not asked to. Some of them existed during the era of Abraham without performing the islamic rite because they were unable to confirm Abraham 's messengership. Such people who simply believe and are righteous, though un able to confirm other messages of GOD may still not be extinct. GOD is pleased with them all.
As with the above verses, even during Qur'an revealation GOD informs us that there existed Jews & Christians then who did not accept the Qur'an but were righteous monotheists. Yes, they might not have performed the Islamic rites because their forefathers had lost them but they are not disbelievers. Even today such Jews or Christians could still be found. All of them, GOD guarantee eternal life.

Sheykul Islam: @ OP what you have written is against usool tafsir. If i know you personally i would declare you a KAFIR

usermane: INTERMISSION

If for any reason you are a proponent of all the first six misconceptions, then most likely you may not agree with the rest of this book. Please, it is never too late. I was in the same position sometimes back.

Then a voice came down from the sky and said, "usermane,use your head"
I had to re-evaluate my thoughts, brooding about these misconceptions.

Al-Baqir:


"In the creation of the heavens and earth, in the alternation of night and days; there are signs for those who reflect" ~Qur'an

I agreed with your theory. So long sun and moon are both creation of Allah and within the context of 'heavens' as used in the above verse and many verses of the holy Qur'an, we are allowed to maximally use both entities to their respective fullest application. I have no objection whatsoever. However, muslim are used to 'lunar' calendar as a result of adherence to Islamic teachings apparently through the prophetic teachings and we strongly believe 'lunar' calendar with certain dates (e.g Ramadhan et al) has their spiritual inclinations.

According to Prof. Maurice Buccaile who wrote "The Bible, the Qur'an and Science" justified the nearest accuracy of 'lunar' calendar compare to 'solar' vis-a-vis gregorian calendar. Many theories of different view!
The fact that the holy prophet (saws) used those "islamic months", it has become his sunnah which is enjoyed on all muslims:

"Indeed in the Messenger of Allah (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allah and the Last Day and remembers Allah much."~33 vs 21.

Al-Baqir:


I disagree with you here brother.
I have read and digested all your view-point. Kindly take your time and read mine with people's accusation esp @thaba1234 and my responses; then we can continue on that:www.nairaland.com/1480939/concept-infallibility-isma

www.nairaland.com/1488847/muhammad-saws-error-free-prophet

If you don't believe in the all times infallibility of the prophet (saws) then how much trust do you have for authenticity of the Qur'an?
Were you there when Jubril descended and revealed the message to him?
How do you know which words of his is actually 'revelation' or his personal sage saying except what he himself tells you?
Is there God's signature and stamp on each sura revealed?

Sheykul Islam: @ al baqir u have had it from the horses mouth. To be sincere which muslim will make such blasphemous statement. In the republic of iran if he makes such statements his head will be seperated from his neck.

usermane:
As a result, most of them do not uphold the Book of GOD. And GOD describe such people as donkeys carrying a pile of books(Qur'an 62:5)

They prefer to be spoon fed by scholars,clerics,sheikhs and mullahs. Though few of these clergy above may be okay, the Qur'an criticizes those who take their words for it(Qur'an 9:31) and warn believers of the dangers of the clergy in general(Qur'an 9:34). How do a non muslim get to appreciate Islam when the Qur'an recitation from the speakers of a nearby mosque is in arabic. How do i listen and pay heed to a recitation that i don't understand(Qur'an 7:204).


With this misconception, it is no wander why the ummayads and abbasids enforce arabic exclusively in the non arab kingdoms they conquered,why the ottoman chiefs banned printing of Qur'an with death penalty. It is no wonder why before 150 years back, translating Qur'an was a taboo.

Those who hamper,the translation of Qur'an and encourage reading arabic Qur'an over translated copies are guilty of concealing GOD 's revealations. And GOD promises them severe retribution(Qur'an 2:174). Qur'an should be translated in various language for everyone. Qur'an is not mean for arabic speakers or muslims alone.



Now, if you(muslim) are out there, and can't recite arabic Qur'an. Don't worry. Get a translated copy,seek GOD 's protection from satan(Qur'an 16:98). Recite at your own pace with critical thinking. Don't expect to get everything over night in one read,you have to go cover to cover many times to become much familiar. It is a gradual but rewarding process. Ask GOD to increase you in understanding(Qur'an 54:40, 20:114). You may ask some persons on where you are stuck,but be objective of what they tell you. Don't stick permanently with only one translation, go through other translations too to check few translation errors. Careful with translations found in google although you can find real good ones there, whose hard copies are out of your reach.

usermane:

It is true the Prophet used lunar calendar. But you cant compare their era with ours. They had very limited knowledge of science then and the best they could come up with is moon sighting.

usermane:

It is true the Prophet used lunar calendar. But you cant compare their era with ours. They had very limited knowledge of science then and the best they could come up with is moon sighting.

usermane:

listen, when we say prophet was fallible or commited sins we are not saying he used to cheat,drink,smoke or gamble. We are saying he made mistakes, in his daily life aside recitation of the revealations. He was not angel without freewill to disobey God. There are such verses were God even warned the Prophet of going astray, also verses like 69:43-46 tells that the prophet had the freewill to invent teachings and attribute them to God.

Lastly 22:52, what does it say? Messengers efforts or wishes are not invisible to the devil 's schemes.

usermane:

listen, when we say prophet was fallible or commited sins we are not saying he used to cheat,drink,smoke or gamble. We are saying he made mistakes, in his daily life aside recitation of the revealations. He was not angel without freewill to disobey God. There are such verses were God even warned the Prophet of going astray, also verses like 69:43-46 tells that the prophet had the freewill to invent teachings and attribute them to God.

Lastly 22:52, what does it say? Messengers efforts or wishes are not invisible to the devil 's schemes.