How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland
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On The Veracity Of Sahih Ahadith / Religious debate between a Christian and Muslim Cleric / From The Fountain Of Our Weekly Study Of The Explanation Of Sahih Muslim Of Imaa (2) (3) (4)
| How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 4:53pm On Nov 01, 2013 |
ON THE PERSONALITY OF MUHAMMAD (saws)! There's no doubt all Muslims revere the personality of the holy prophet (saws) in accordance with the saying of Allah: "Indeed in the messenger of Allah,you have the most exalted character ..." His virtues were so excellent that even certain notables among non-muslims could not help but to praised him supreme. However, as much as we revered him, there are some who continuously defamed the holy prophet and even justify their claim with certain hadith tagged "sahih -authentic" by certain muslims. And instead of questioning the veracity of such hadith as it is against the picture given in the Qur'an concerning Muhammad, many result to cursing, fighting and abuse. Little wonder why the attack on the prophet is so much! NARRATIONS OF SUCH HADITH: 1. Al-Bukhari narrated in "The Book of (ritual) washing", in "The chapter on one who has Intercourse and repeats it", from Anas that the holy prophet used to visit his wives in a single hour during the night and day and they were altogether eleven of them". He said: "I said to Anas: 'Did he have the strength for this? 'He replied: 'We used to say that he was given the strength of thirty..." NB: Observe how the prophet was portrayed with this insatiable desire for sex! Having sex with eleven women within an hour, no taking of bath after the first one but approach the second with secretion...How can a man throw himself upon his wife without any pre-intimacy even animals do pre-intimacy. Why will the prophet disregard his own saying: "Do not approach your wife like an animal but instead do something that attract them and you". We can ask Anas b. Malik how he managed to report that? 2. Al-Bukhari reported in Vol. 3 p. 132 and Muslim in vol. 7 p. 136 that Aisha said: "The wives of the prophet sent Fatima, the daughter of the prophet, to the prophet. She sought permission to enter while he was reclining with me in a single garment. He allowed her in and she said: O prophet of Allah! Your wives have sent me to you to ask that you show fairness regarding the daughter of Abu Quhafa'. I remained quiet. He said to Fatima: 'My dear child do you not love what I love? She said: 'Most certainly'. He said: 'Then love her..." The narrations continued to the point where the wives of the prophet sent Zainab bint Jahsh, another wife to the prophet to plead with him to exercise justice regarding Aisha. She went to see the prophet, still reclining with Aisha, she shouted to the prophet to observe Justice, and she rebuked Aisha who in turn retorted and insulted Zainab back until she (Aisha) silenced her. Upon this, the prophet smiled and said: "she is the daughter of Abu bakar". NB: What can I say concerning this loathsome hadith which portray the prophet to be a man who follow lust and does not show justice to his wives? Muhammad was a working and walking Qur'an. Allah declared through his tongue: "Marry women of your choice two, three or four And if you fear that you cannot show fairness, then (marry) one or (resort to) what your right hand possesses~Sura Nisai" 3. Sahih Muslim in "The chapter on the merits of Uthman b. Affan", on the authority of Aisha...that at different time, Abu Bakar and Umar ibn al-khattab sought permission to enter while the prophet was lying on his bed wearing the garment of Aisha. He allowed them to enter. But when Uthman sought permission to visit, the prophet quickly sat up and said to Aisha: "gather your clothes around you". When Uthman finally left, Aisha asked the prophet why he changed as to the visit of Uthman...He said: "Should I not be shy of someone of whom (even) the angels are shy?". NB:. Also in al-Bukhari on the authority of Uthman in similar version. 4. Muslim reported in his Sahih in "The chapter on the Injunction to take a Ritual Bath after Meeting of the Private parts of the spouses", on the authority of Aisha, that while she was sitting(in his presence): "A man asked the prophet if the bath was obligatory upon both parties when a man has intercourse with his wife and then he feels lazy (to have a bath). The prophet replied: 'I certainly do it, I and her, then we have a bath. " Summary of other narration: 5. Hadith that the prophet was subjected under a magic spell so he did not know what he did or said. He (even) thought that he had sexual relations with his spouses when, in fact, he had not. (Al-bukhari, sahih, vol. 4 p. 68, 7/29) 6. Hadith that he used to wake up in the mornings of Ramadhan in a ritually impure state (janaba).(Bukhari, vol2 p. 232, 234) 7. Hadith that he would sleep until he snored then wake up and pray without performing the ablutions (wudu). (Al-Bukhari, sahih, vol1 p44, 171) 8. Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 296: Narrated ‘Aisha: The Prophet used to lean on my lap and recite Qur’an while I was in menses. 9. Al-bukhari in his sahih in "The chapter on Tayammum" and Muslim in his sahih, also in "the chapter of Tayammum", both related on the authority of Aisha: "That the prophet felt unconcerned with searching for water for salat. Rather busy searching for the lost Aisha's necklace. After he has exhausted himself, he slept on the thigh of Aisha...people went to complain to Abu bakar what her daughter has caused while they were searching for water. Abu bakar came to her, rebuked her and hit her hard on her hip and she said: "Nothing prevented me from moving except that the prophet was on my thigh". The prophet slept so hard without noticing what has happened till the morning. There was still no water to be found till Allah revealed the ayah of Tayammum; thereby, people praised Aisha for because of her Allah revealed this ayah. 10. Hadith that he had been seen Naked in public. (Bukhari, Vol. 1,Book 8, No. 360) NB: Just like an hadith of Nabi Musa running naked after a moving mountain till people could see his private part. (Bukhari, Vol 4, Book 55,No. 616) There are many more of these loathsome kind of hadith. CONCLUSION These hadiths were designed by the camp of Banu Umayyad, the avowed enemy of the holy prophet (saws) to downgrade his status, to have a naql(text) to support their heinous acts and to elevate the status of their heroes who has served their purpose. We believe ANY hadith in ANY book of "repute" which contradict the principles of the Qur'an, is Null and void. If you however see me as a Shi'a, "a Rafidhi" who attacks 'most revere Sahih Bukhari and sahih Muslim', then you are mistaken and deluded. But seeing me as a muslim who loved and revered his prophet, then together we can achieve the common goal of telling the critics that ONLY Qur'an is free from error while other books are not. "He is the leader of all those who fear Allah, and insight for those who seek guidance. He is a lamp whose flame is burning, a meteor whose light is shining and a flint whose spark is the criterion and his decision just..." ~Imam Ali (a.s) on the personality of his master, Muhammad (saws). Salam. 1 Like |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 5:04pm On Nov 01, 2013 |
NOTE: My objective is to expose lies against the status of the holy prophet (saws). While the holy Qur'an has raised his status to the zenith of "Maqama mahmudan", having the best and exalted character; then any talk from anybody which devalue him (saws) is to thrown away into bin. However I am not in anyway against sahih al-bukhari and sahih Muslim. My effort is to proclaim that sahih bukhari and sahih muslim are not free from error as many muslims used to believe and affirm. These books contain many authentic narrations as it also contains flaws. Not only Bukhari and Muslim, there abound many revere books of hadith, tafsir and tarikh (history) in both Sunni and Shi'i works. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 10:29pm On Nov 01, 2013 |
If two muslims meet with their swords Narrated Al-Hasan: (Al-Ahnaf said  I went out carrying my arms during the nights of the affliction (i.e. the war between 'Ali and 'Aisha) and Abu Bakra met me and asked, "Where are you going?" I replied, "I intend to help the cousin of Allah's Apostle (i.e.,'Ali)." Abu Bakra said, "Allah's Apostle said, 'If two Muslims take out their swords to fight each other, then both of them will be from amongst the people of the Hell-Fire.' It was said to the Prophet, 'It is alright for the killer but what about the killed one?' He replied, 'The killed one had the intention to kill his opponent.'" (See Hadith No. 30, Vol. 1)References: • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 88, #204, Book: Kitab al-Fitann; Page 1494, #7083 (Arabic version) • Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, #30, Book: Kitab al-Imann; Page 21, #31 (Arabic version) Analysis The above hadith refer to the battle of the camel, between Ali ibn Abi Abi Talib and Aisha bint Abu Bakr. It narrates that if two muslims fight each other, they both go to hell. It implies that if the fight is between oppressed Muslims and muslim oppressors, both are still punished by Allah. Therefore, Talha, al-Zubair, Ali ibn Abi Talib, Aisha bint Abu Bakr, Ammar ibn Yassir and all the others who fought the battles of Siffin and Camel will dwell in the hell-fire. Moreover, al-Hussein ibn Ali and al-Hassan will also be in the same situation since they fought Mua'awiah and his son Yazid. Either, these two hadiths are not genuine, or the narrator is a liar! For one, it contradicts that Holy Quran which states: Quran 49:9 "And if two parties of the believers quarrel, make peace between them; but if one of them acts wrongfully towards the other, fight that which acts wrongfully until it returns to Allah's command; then if it returns, make peace between them with justice and act equitably; surely Allah loves those who act equitably" It clearly indicates that the rightful party of believers must fight the wrongful party of believers until the latter returns to the command of Allah. As far as the party of Ali, who was the legitimate caliph at that time, the Sunnis and the Twelvers Shiaa have authenticated the following hadiths The virtues of Ali: * Whoever I am his master, Ali is his master. O God! Love those who love him and be hostile to those who are hostile to him. * He who loves me, must love Ali. * The Prophet (PBUH) looked toward Ali, Hasan, Husain, and Fatimah (AS), and then said: "I am in war with those who will fight you, and in peace with those who are peaceful to you". * Whoever loves Ali has loved me, and whoever hates Ali has hated me. * No one but a believer would love Ali, and none but a hypocrite would nurse grudge against Ali. * Ali is with Quran, and Quran is with Ali. 1 Like |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Logicbwoy: 6:16am On Nov 02, 2013 |
I have problems with the same Hadith Are you concluding that they are not true? |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 6:49am On Nov 02, 2013 |
Logicbwoy: I have problems with the same Hadith Dear brother, al-Qur'an is the Furqan (criterion between truth and falsehood). Any saying or action attributed to the holy prophet (saws) which is not in conformity with the Qur'an is thus rejected. Says who? Says Muhammad (saws). Just for example as highlighted in the OP: One hadith said he neglect other wives of his and reclined with Aisha to the extent that they accused him of 'injustice'(nauthubillah)! Whereas Allah warned the believers through Muhammad's tongue whom we are to follow in all our deeds: "...if you know you will not deal justly between them, then marry one..." I ask you brother where does that hadith compatible with the Qur'an? Yet we say Muhammad (saws) was the best example. If that statement is true, then the hadith is thrown out. Otherwise, you praise sahih bukhari over Qur'an. Some evil hands will not stop at nothing in down grading the status of our beloved prophet (saws) whom Allah said: "wa innaka ala khulqil azeem" - Indeed you are of the most exalted character" Just as they misinterpret many ayat of the Qur'an to prove he's a "sinner" likewise they continue giving us legends that he did that, he did this. An innocent muslims will begin to fight himself: 'Is this my prophet?'. How many critics have continuously abused our dearest prophet just because of these hadith or similar ones certain muslims praised so high? If you read Islamic history well, you will find out how the Banu Umayyad corrupted and fabricated hadith and sunnah of the holy prophet and re-written Islamic history to worse. Salam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 11:24am On Nov 02, 2013 |
I must say am very surprised at this. i am one of those who rever the sahih as much as i rever al-quran. i know and belief that the quran is ultimate buh i also believed that for dos collection of hadith to be called sahih, den dey are jayyid jidda..tested and to be trusted Allahu 'alam. May Allah not lost us in our search tor the truth however i have clarifications to make regarding two of these observations. number 7: that the prophet would sleep and snore and not renew his wudhu...i think what we havent done is read further on this. the hadith didnt stop dia. the narrator further says 'and when i asked, it was said that Muhammad only sleeps in body and not in soul'..thus hez still conscious of happenings around him. that wudhu after a sound sleep is for someone who has slept so much dah he fell out of happenings around him secondly, number 8 talks about the prophet lying on Aisha's lap while she was on her menses. subhanallah! that hadith also isnt complete. We have to read ahadith with their tafsir so that half and ugly meanings wont be derived. it was believed that a menstruating woman was dirty and filthy. That act of the prophet only goes to show that dey are not and one can read quran in dia presence, pray in dia rum or sleep close to dem..Aisha even said:' i used to comb his hair while i was on menses' waAllahu 'alam...i am not disputing the opinion of the OP that those sahih are not the ultimate buh i advise that when we read hadith, we should study the reason, tafsir, circumstance and every every surrounding it salam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by usermane(m): 4:54pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
Very good guys. Isn't this why you shouldn't be offended to see some muslims accept the Qur'an alone and reject the hadiths as an alternative source of Islamic rulings? Infact Al-Baqir, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait untill you scan Jami at tirmidhi,Ibn majar e.t.c, then you won't believe your eyes. I just pray and hope atleast a few muslims will see these books for what they truely are. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 6:13pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: I must say am very surprised at this. i am one of those who rever the sahih as much as i rever al-quran. i know and belief that the quran is ultimate buh i also believed that for dos collection of hadith to be called sahih, den dey are jayyid jidda..tested and to be trusted Ma sha Allah dear sister, May Allah bless you for your keen eyes and intellect. 1. Imam bukhari and Muslim never in any way wrote "sharh" (commentary) for their respective sahih. Other scholars (like Imam al-hakim, Ibn hajar, Nawawi etc) did just to clarify certain ambiguous hadith found in this notable works. In fact up to like 5 different scholars wrote 'sharh' on sahih muslim alone. What do they used as yardstick and guide during their interpretations of these hadith? It is only sensible to conclude that some people try to be defensive and absolve Islam of stupidity. Thereby look for a certain justification for what cannot be justify. Although they justify correctly atimes. *There's an hadith in sahih Muslim attributed to Umar ibn al-khattab. He sworn by Allah that "Ayat Rojmu (verse of stoning of adulterer) was part of revelation sent to Muhammad and that its part of Qur'an which Muhammad and the companion read over and over. He concluded a time will come when people will say its not in the Qur'an and they will neglect the practice. (This hadith along with many of similar genre was termed "sahih" yet prove beyond no doubt that Qur'an is incomplete (nauthubillah)) Alas! When I brought this to a learned friend, just to maintain the status of Sahih al-Bukhari or Umar (if the report is true), he said: "Ehnn there were some Quranic verse that were not part of Qur'an today". By Allah I felt like giving him a slap. 2. To the 7th hadith. I tell you in confidence dear sister, they (narrators or commentators) only follow CONJECTURES since it is absurd to them. Then they need to find a way of absolving the prophet of that error and at the same time maintain the "standard" of sahih al-bukhari and Muslim. Is it reasonable to say he snored while sleeping till al-Fajr came up and at the same time maintain he did not sleep in soul? Does the narrator claimed he asked Rasul (saws) why he didn't re-do his ablution? Hadith number 9 of the OPs testified to what they have accused the prophet of. He (saws) was allegedly reported to have slept to the extent that Abu Bakar continously hitting her daughter, Aisha, hard in the thigh while the prophet's head was on her laps. Yet he (saws) did not know what's going on. 3. Hadith number 8. Please kindly verify and read the hadith exactly the way it is in al-Bukhari. What kind of commentary do anybody want to give when Qur'an says: "...la yamasu'u illal mutaharun...(None can touch it (Qur'an) except the purified ones)" (Sura al-Waqiat). I understand perfectly Islamic rulings on a woman with her menses but not in this regard. Little wonder why Maliki, shafi'i, Hanbali and Hanafi always being at a parallel line that can never meet regarding Islamic Jurisprudence (fiqh). Muhammad (saws) revered the holy Qur'an more than the attribute of reading it on his wife's laps not to mention while in mensration. If Imam Abu hanifa could report that Imam Jafar as-sadiq (ahl al-bayt and grandson of the prophet) will not recite even a single verse in the Qur'an except in the state of ablution and seriousness with humility, I find it difficult to attribute such act (above) with the best of Mankind, the leader of pious and purified ones (saws). Many thanks once again. Salam. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 7:00pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
usermane: Very good guys. Isn't this why you shouldn't be offended to see some muslims accept the Qur'an alone and reject the hadiths as an alternative source of Islamic rulings? Infact Al-Baqir, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait untill you scan Jami at tirmidhi,Ibn majar e.t.c, then you won't believe your eyes. I just pray and hope atleast a few muslims will see these books for what they truely are.normally, i dont av spare time to reply jerks buh today nd right nau i do. mr. misspelt username, ds thread is for MUSLIMS and we are trinna do some conversation right here. this is not a church shepherd gathering. you should face front when you arenot directly affected..lets solve and resolve ds without ur awful face around here. pls |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 7:04pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
usermane: Very good guys. Isn't this why you shouldn't be offended to see some muslims accept the Qur'an alone and reject the hadiths as an alternative source of Islamic rulings? Infact Al-Baqir, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait untill you scan Jami at tirmidhi,Ibn majar e.t.c, then you won't believe your eyes. I just pray and hope atleast a few muslims will see these books for what they truely are. Dear brother, try to note that Allah says it is obligatory to follow the sunnah vis-a-vis hadith (saying) of the holy prophet (saws): "Obey Allah and His prophet..." So if any muslims believed that because there are errors, absurdities and lies in the books of collections of hadith thereby disregard them and stick only to Qur'an; then he hasn't fulfill his Lord's command. However, the fact that Qur'an is no doubt 100%, it is to be the yardstick and criterion for books of hadith. Meaning: any hadith that is in conformity with Qur'an, should be taken to be from Muhammad (saws) since he and His lord can't contradict. Whereas any hadith that is against the principle of the Qur'an no matter where it is should be rejected for it can not be from Muhammad. It is unfortunate that we do not follow what we are instructed for ages. The fact that hadith were NEVER recorded or authenticated (unlike Qur'an) during the life-time of the prophet, he (saws) however said: "I left behind you two weighty things that if you adhere to them, you will not go astray; book of God and my progeny, my ahl al-bayt..." (Muslim, Tirmidhi, ibn Majah, Nisai, Abu dawud etc). More than 30 Isnad (chain of transmitter) has been recorded for this hadith alone. Today scholars and students alike repeatedly proclaim "book of God and sunnah". For your information, this hadith NEVER existed in the six most authentic collection of hadith (bukhari, muslim, tirmidhi etc). You can only find it in "Al-Muwatta" of Imam Malik, who himself said the hadith does not have Isnad (chain of transmitter). Al-hakim also recorded it from Muwatta, in his al-Mustadrak but found fault with the hadith as does Imam malik. They all either termed it 'weak' or 'fabricated'. Why do we now proclaiming this hadith and left the trusted and sweep it under the carpet? It is therefore not suprising that people left the ahl al-bayt of Rasul and follow others in getting info about the sunnah and saying of Muhammad (saws). If truly the holy prophet left Qur'an and Sunnah, why was Umar stopped and prevented the holy prophet from written his last will (which he said if followed will never mislead us) at his death bed. Why was Umar said: "the prophet is delirious (Yahjur) and unconscious; Book of God is ENOUGH for us"? Why? Had it been he left "Sunnah", umar would have used it. Imagine this: Ali ibn Abi Talib was brought up personally by the prophet. He has started living with the prophet at the age of 3 or 4. He continue till the prophet breath his last. It was not coincidence that prophet (saws) said: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate to it..." (Tirmidhi, Mustadrak etc) You can then ask yourself how many hadiths were reported from Ali in all Ahlu sunnah's books of hadith? As big and voluminous as Bukhari +Muslim, how many narration do they collected from Fatima binta Muhammad (saws) whom the prophet said she's Sayyidatul Nisail alamin (Leader of all women of the universe -past and present). Muhammad shaped her. Only two report came from her in these books! Compare please: Abu Hurairah accepted Islam just 3years before the demise of the prophet while he was still in Sham (syria). He NEVER participated in any expediture with the prophet. He was a poor and unlettered and a destitute who has nowhere to live than the roof of prophet's mosque. He himself said he used to beg certain sahaba to recite Qur'an for him with the intention that after that they might give him something to eat. During the time of Umar's caliphacy, Umar beat and silence him for reporting excessive hadith. Unfortunately he served the purpose of Mu'awiyyah well during Mu'awiyyah's usurped caliphacy. And he related hadith allegedly from Rasul to the extent that he said: "If you want thousand more, I can give you". Today he was the most narrator of hadith with over 6000+. Where does those hadith came from? Add the narrations of Aisha and all the wives of the prophet + Ali and all the males of Banu Hashim (prophet's family) + Abu bakar + Umar + Uthman; yet it still not up to that of Abu Hurairah. Today muslims are confused and segregated into factions while each group maintained to be following hadith and sunnah. How will the prophet entrusted his sunnah to every tom dick and harry while Allah warned him there were hypocrites among his companion. In fact, sura Tawbah said: "you did not know all of them, only Allah knows them". Therefore it is only rational to accept the hadith of "book of God and ahl al-bayt". Since they have been trained and thought by their father, Muhammad (saws). He therefore left his trusted family (ahl al-bayt) to teach us. And since the whole 23years of his mission was devoted to receiving, reciting, written and teaching of the Qur'an. Companions only follow whatever they see him do. Nobody could claim to write hadith or sunnah down at the time of Rasul except his Ahl al-bayt whom he (saws) said they were his legacy along the Qur'an. May Allah guide our heart aright to the truth provided we are open-minded and not plagued with the love of certain personality. Salam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 7:40pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Dear sister, you dey tough o! Lol. I wanna believe he's a muslim and if he's not, I tell you in confidence many christians know Islam more than some muslims. They've been using our books of hadith against us to down-grade the prophet since we too claimed those books are authentic. It is high time we tell them only Qur'an is infallible and not books of hadiths which is like the Bible. Qur'an alone is the Furqan for both hadith books and Bible. Salam. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 8:02pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
Al-qaim: brother double'al' if yu wanna stay more, go modify ur post nau nau..still al...as al..¿?..yu see i ddnt quote dah part. if mods find out, dey wont let it lie down now to usermane's matter....he is NOT a muslim. he is a non muslim and he doesnt say well at all. i dont even like his contributions. He tries always to bring up confusions 1 Like |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ameenahz(f): 9:07pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Sis, yes, i have reasons to believe he is not a muslim too and my mind tells me he is another 'abdulsleek' in disguise. But the truth is you really need to tone down your words. How are we supposed to show these people the beauty of islam if we keep throwing these harsh words at them? 1 Like |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ummsulaym(f): 9:25pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: That got me laughing so much that grams had to ask if all is well  ... So you want it modified ehn? Awon egbon wa sese bere...Mean while, u made mention of mods, mo n duro de wan... But was that offensive? Maybe cuz am used to it on and off NL  |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 9:30pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
ameenahz:am sorry. i was angry ni |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 9:33pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
ummsulaym:hez using different monikers nau. its against d rule. i ddnt wanna say it so dah if he eventually modifies, dey wudnt find out from my own comment |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 9:37pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Hmmm...sometimes people will piss you off. Its part of being human but we are muslims. We follow the best of all mankind (Sayyidul Bashar) and we need to exercise this. May Allah fill your face with His peace and glory amidst all trouble. What a concern sister. Ma sha Allah. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 9:48pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 9:50pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Lolz! Haha coding too much. Msg understood anyway. And adjustment has been made. Its sad it turned out like that out of fru......* from those Al-mightys. Lol. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ummsulaym(f): 9:53pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
I don't know what's eventually gonna happen to this thread and it's not my business... Am just here to play with my brothers and sisters... I don't mean play literally, just saying whatever I post as comment(s) should not be mis-interpretted, mis-quoted or mis-understood... Mods are free to delete any comment if viewed as 'derailing' the thread on my part @op, your effort in bringing the message to us (or me) is appreciated and message received... May Allah guide us all aright |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ummsulaym(f): 10:05pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
Al-qaim: Now, that part was very funny... But Alhamdulilah you didn't do it babylolaroy: usermane sounds like some kind of Quraniyya guy(or bro  ), just that he ends up not presenting even the Qur'an well again(now, that's a double fault)... He needs admonishment, explanation and so on... I surrendered being harsh on him cuz harsh is not gonna work... I feel for him though(just like I feel for myself too)... May Allah guide usAl-qaim: That (especially the bolded) sounds like it's from bro Ali who is also a shiat-Ali(off NL)... He is a good brother from another sect... But sectarianism aside, bro Al-qaim/Al-baqir, are you all this 'impossible?' why I ask is that bro Ali has been known for a year, he keeps telling me this same thing you people post on NL and I keep saying I've heard and I appreciate... When next we meet, he will explain all over again. Even with annoying points, I endure to listen(my weakness), yet he didn't stop and same, I didn't complain... Just last month he got angry and said ''the hardest people to change are people like you'' so me too con vex small... Last last, he said if he couldn't do it, he believe someone else will cuz he can't stand me dieing with my present beliefs, so I just told him I pray he doesn't die with his present beliefs too but I can stand it cuz his judgement is not mine... Now I ask again, why being so impossible? |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by babylolaroy(f): 10:10pm On Nov 02, 2013 |
ummsulaym:gboin...i wish he did jor. some people cannot do without it 1 Like |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by Alqaim: 11:33am On Nov 03, 2013 |
ummsulaym: One, Al-baqir/Al-qaim is definitely not brother Ali though I am a Shi'a (follower) of Ahl al-bayti Rasul. "Are we all this Impossible?" Though I don't know the brother you talked about but I bet he was never born or raised as a Shi'a. Same here! Conviction and conversion lead us to shi'ism. How do you as a person feel when you discovered you've been lied to and spoon-fed for donkey years? How do you think Nabi Noah felt for propagating 'Islam' for almost 1000years yet not even his family (wife and son) accepted? What about the effort of the holy prophet (saws) in propagating Islam till Allah calm him down "...you cannot made them all to believe" "You are just a warner and a giver of glad-tiding"? Faith is all about conviction followed by Allah's Rahma to convert. This is because many know and realize the truth yet they never follow the path of truth. That is where Sincerity comes in. Albert Einstein met Ayatullah Burjadeh; and confirmed based on his research, Islam to be the best yet he died as a non-muslim. How many people in history like that! Then usually Fear always play its part. Imagine what you've been practicing and vast majority believe its correct; then all of a sudden somebody come with "new" thing. Never easy to just follow like that. Allah reveal that on the day of Judgment many will bring a filthy excuse once their foot have been set to fire : "...Our Lord this is what we find our fore-fathers doing, then we follow them". Even christians, Idol-worshipers, atheist etc are contended with their beliefs. Sincerity, thorough research, hunger for truth, opening of heart (and not being blind by the love of a personality(s)) , good judgment (not being one sided),prayer for guidance and Allah's Rahma are some of the factors that can change one's heart. Despite the fact that I know its not easy to change people, my fear has always been( esp if the person doesn't make any move), those "new things or words" that's newly being introduced to him could be against him on the day of Judgment. Thereby, a preacher get the motivation and feeling of 'let me try again, perhaps I didn't speak well before!' It also found when a man propose to a woman and she's yet to accept. Lol. I don't know if your question is being answered. If not pls do not hesitate to elaborate. May Allah guide our heart aright to His straight path. Many thanks. Salam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by BetaThings: 12:52pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
usermane: Very good guys. Isn't this why you shouldn't be offended to see some muslims accept the Qur'an alone and reject the hadiths as an alternative source of Islamic rulings? Infact Al-Baqir, this is just the tip of the iceberg. Wait untill you scan Jami at tirmidhi,Ibn majar e.t.c, then you won't believe your eyes. I just pray and hope atleast a few muslims will see these books for what they truely are. Nobody ever said any book is perfect apart from the book of Allah - the Qur'an But worse than what you say is the Shias' belief that the Qur'an that we hold is authentic Al Kulayni - the highly revered author of the most authoritative Shia book of Hadith (al Kafi) - says the Qur'an we hold has been tampered That is what should open eyes on what the SHias are truly about And we know that the authors of those Jami book themselves have never told us all their ahadeeth are authetic Please read up Bilal Phiilps book on Usool Hadeeth According to Shayk Albanee All the Muslims whether they are from the scholars, the students of knowledge or the ignorant Muslims; they are all in agreement that there is no one who is infallible in this religion except the Messenger of Allah peace and blessings are upon him. Let me quote Bilal Philips
On Bukhari, let me quote Bilal Phiplis again Al -Bukhaaree used to seek aid in prayer before recording every tradition, and weighed every word he wrote with scrupulous exactitude. He devoted more than a quarter of his life to the creation of his Saheeh, which is generally considered by the Muslims as an authority second only to the Qur’aan. This is what we have in the Qur'an "Verily Allah chose Adam, Nuh, the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran above mankind"Quran 3 : 33 The Shia Ayatollah Murtada Al-Qazwini says that our Qur'an we hold omits "and the family of Muhammad" According to him This is how the ayah actually was: "Verily Allah chose Adam, Nuh, the family of Ibrahim and the family of Imran 'and the family of Muhammad' above mankind" This portion in red is what the Shia claim have been excluded from the Qur'an. Shias claim that they only say the INTERPRETATION of the Qur'an is what has been changed, not the text. They talk about tahreef. The statement of Ayatollah Qazwini proves that defence wrong without any doubt He says "Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq says that is actually how the Ayah was revealed. However THEY removed it! That is it. I won't comment any further. I am just telling you that but if I want I could comment more..yes! So the words "Aale Muhhamd" (family of..) was part of the Ayah! But as you know the government that was established after Rasulullah the one that was in charge with the Qur'an. Well the standpoint of that government was against the family of Muhammad, that is obvious. That would be of no benefit to them if they would leave it (Ayah) as it was. What happened, happened!" Let us all recall another ayah that this Ayatollah and Shias fault indirectly Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur'an and indeed, We will be its guardianQur'an 15:9 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovfz3xnsjJ0&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL3FD62F6693963905 2 Likes |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ummsulaym(f): 2:15pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
Al-qaim: Definitely, you two can't be same person but are members of same sect Al-qaim: I was neither born nor raised as a Sunni. Same here! Conviction, conversion, personal struggle and quest made me one and ofcourse, by the permission of Allah Al-qaim: I will feel so bad... And now brother, that journey of LIES is what I hate embark upon again Al-qaim: For preaching ISLAM for that numbers of year, yet not even my family accepted? I will feel so bad and unfulfilled but if what am preaching is not ISLAM, then I should be happy that no one accepted Al-qaim: hmmm, my brother, Allah words are true o. Everyone cannot be made to believe because everyone, every sect, every religion has reasons and proves for justifying their beliefs. Al-qaim: very true brother. Back then in the missionary school, I had a dialogue with a friend about trinity using the bible which we were being taught. Do you know this girl confessed that she never believed in trinity? Her beliefs tallied with Islam and when I asked why she is still a christian, she told me she was born into it and want to die in it. Then, the words of Allah that 'no one can guide whom HE misguides and no one can misguide whom HE guides' came to my mind, so I let her be Al-qaim: Sometimes, it's fear while other times it's certainty... Like the sis I talked about above, is a pastor's daughter, you can imagine the fear(Astaghfirullah if am wrong)... I am not living for any man neither is my death or judgement by any mortal. To cap it all, if and if only that 'new' thing can be proven right beyound all doubt, then #team-new I am Al-qaim: This verse of the Qur'an made me appreciate sunnism the more cuz no fore-fathers followed but Rasulillah SAW Al-qaim: A thousand likes cuz that's very true Al-qaim: Another words of haqq! Al-baqir: Now, that's funny and it got me smiling. Lol Al-qaim: very well, it was Al-qaim: Ameen kun faya kun, Allahuma Ameen Al-qaim: More thanks. Wsalam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 2:18pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
BetaThings: Bismihi Ta a'ala @Betathings, Here we go again bro! Why bringing 'Shi'a' in this fold? Here we talk about certain hadith discrediting Rasul; you try to be defensive by bringing out your pains about Shi'a. Haven't you read the very first comment of this OP where I said: " ...These books contain many authentic narrations as it also contains flaws. Not only Bukhari and Muslim, there abound many revere books of hadith, tafsir and tarikh (history) in both Sunni and Shi'i works." Haven't you? Yet you talked with not a single reference that Shia believe in the 'incompleteness' of the Qur'an. Many of you pride so much in checking "internet" for references or follow a so-called scholar like Bilal phillips. Have you ever seen shia Usul kafi or other books not to mention of checking those so-called quotations? In fact, the very introduction of Usul al- Kafi is enough where Sheik Kulayni warns of many hadith in his book! How many of your scholars did that? Now what says Sunni books of hadith on the incompleteness of the Qur'an: 1. Al-bukhari in his Sahih, part 8 p. 209 -210 qouted Ibn Abbas reported that Umar Ibn al-khattab said in a discourse which he delivered during the last year of his khilafah: "Certainly Allah sent Muhammad with the truth and revealed to him the book. One of the revelations which came to him was the verse of stoning (ayat ar-rojmu). We read it and understood it. The messenger of God stoned and we stoned after him. I am concerned that if time goes on, someone may say 'By God, we do not find the verse of stoning in the Book of God', thus, the muslims will deviate by neglecting a commandment the Almighty revealed. Stoning is in the book of Allah. It is the right punishment for a person who commits adultery ..." 2. Sahih Muslim in the 7th part(commentary of Al- Nawawi) in the book of al-Zakat about the virtue of being satisfied with whatever God gives, pages 139 - 140, reported that Abu Al-Aswad reported his father said: "Abu Musa Al-Ashari invited the Qur'an readers of Basra. 300 readers responded to his invitation. He told them: " 'You are the readers and the choice of the people of Basra. Recite the Qur'an and do not neglect it... "We used to read a chapter from the Qur'an similar to Bara-ah in length and seriousness, but I forgot it. I can remember from that chapter only the following words: " 'Should a son of Adam own two valleys full of wealth, he would seek a third valley, and nothing would fill Ibn Adam's belly but soil. " 'We used to read a chapter similar to the Musabbihat and I forgot it. I only remember the following: " ' Oh you who believe, why do you say what you do not do? Thus , a testimony will be written on your necks and you will be questioned about it on the day of judgment. '" 3. Sahih Muslim reported in the book Al-Ridhaa (book of nursing), part 10, page 29, that Aisha said the following: "There was in what was revealed in the Qur'an that ten times of nursing known with certainty makes the nursing woman a mother of a nursed child. This number of nursing would make the woman 'haram' to the child. Then this verse was replaced by 'five known nursings' to make the woman forbidden to the child. The prophet died while these words were recorded and read in the Qur'an. " 4. Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti has recorded a tradition from Ibn Abbas (ra) wherein he says: “The number of verses in the Quran are 6616” (Ref: Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84) Remember Qur'an contains 6666verses. 5. Allamah Jalaluddin Suyuti whilst citing Sunni scholarly opinion from Sunni scholar Uthman bin Saeed bin Uthman Abu Amro al-Daani (d. 444 H) wrote: Al-Daani said: ‘They agreed that the number of verses of Quran are six thousand but they disagreed in what has been added further (to the Quran), some of them didn’t add more whilst others said it was two hundred and four. Some said two hundred and fourteen, others said two hundred and nineteen. Some said two hundred and twenty five, others said two hundred and thirty six.’ (Ref:Al Itqan fi Uloom al Quran, Volume 1 page 84) 6. 1. Tafseer Ibn Kathir, Volume 1 page 7, number of verses 2. Tafseer Qurtubi, Volume 1 page 65, number of verses We read in Tafseer Ibn Kathir: “The total number of verses Quranic verses are 6000. Disagreement remains about the remainder verses. There are various views and statements about them. One statement is that there are 6204 verses” Que: Where are these so-called verses in the present Qur'an as claimed? These are tip of the ice-berg from books of Ahl sunnah. I will be glad to provide you more should you request. SHIA SCHOLARS OPINION: »Sayed Khoie (rh) states: “Although it is true that the version of Ali’s Quran had some texts that are not in the present Quran this does not mean that Ameer al Momineen (as) had an additional Quran that is not in the present Quran rather that addition means that this version contained divinely revealed Tafseer and Taweel in it that is not present in the existing Quran” (Ref:Al Bayan fi Tafseer al Quran, page 223) 1. Allamah Majlisi: “If someone advance his doubts over present Quran being the actual book of Allah (swt) when there exist many traditions according to which the Imams (as) recited verses of the Quran in a manner that are different from the existing Quran for example “Ye are the best of Imams, evolved for mankind” , “Thus We have appointed you a middle Imams” and “They ask you the windfalls” - reply of such notion will be the same as already cited i.e these traditions that are counted amongst the ‘Akhbar Ahad’ and when they are (measured) against Quran then their authenticity is unsure therefore we do not rely on such traditions and haven’t abandoned whatever is found in the present Quran because we have been ordered to act upon it …” (Ref:Bihar al Anwar, Volume 89 page 75) 2.“Ali bin Salam narrates from his father who asked Imam Jafer Sadiq (as) “O descendant of the Prophet (S). What are your views on the Qur’an? Imam Jafer (as) replied ‘the Qur’an is Allah’s book and his revelation. This is a Book which Baatil hasn’t even gone close to, neither will there be anyone who would call it Baatil nor has this happened before and this has been revealed by the Hakeem and Majeed God” Amali by Shaykh Saduq, Page 545 A. Sheikh Saduq (rah) further says: “Our belief is that the Qur’an which Allah revealed to His Prophet Muhammad is (the same as) the one between the two covers (daffatayn). It is the one which is in the hands of the people, and is not greater in extent than that. The number of Surahs as generally accepted is one hundred and fourteen …whoever asserts that we claim that it is greater in length than that, is a liar.” (Ref: E’tiqadaat Sheikh Saduq 93, Published Iran) B. According to Sheikh Abu Ali al-Tabarsi, another prominent Shia Ulama, " there are no words added to the Qur'an. Any claim of added words is unanimously denied by the shiites. As to the deletion, some shiites and some Ahl sunnah said that there is change or deletion. Our Ulamas deny that. " C. Sheik al-Mufid: “Verily what is between the two covers of the Quran its whole content is Allah’s words and revelation, there is nothing from the words of mankind in it and its entirety is the revelation of Allah” 1. Mirat ul-Uqool, Volume 1, page 171. 2. al-Mesael al-Surweya, by Sheikh al Mufid, page 78 D. The Belief of Allamah Sadruddin Shirazi (d. 1050 AH) Shaykh Sadr-uddin Sheerazi bette know as “Mulla Sadra” wrote a commentary on Usul-ul-Kafi. We read about his belief about the supposed Tahreef in the Quran: “Research proves that the present Quran has neither been changed, nor has it been distorted, and no error has entered into its ranks.” (Ref:Tafseer of Ayat ul-Kursi, page 332). NB: If you need more, I will be glad to cite you more references. I will be glad if you can present to me a copy of the so-called Shi'a Qur'an or a book where shi'a claimed Qur'an is incomplete. Lastly, Like what a reknow Egyptian Sunni scholar said: if truly Shi'a have a different Qur'an, how come all these ages they've manage to hide it from people? Their Qur'an is the same as ours unless the doubters could present a copy of the so-called 'shia-Qur'an. Our belief is that both Sunni and Shia books of hadith contains many fabricated hadith among which are those that talked about tahrif of the holy Qur'an. It is suprising seeing certain sunni scholars (esp the Wahabis) accusing shia of belief in tahrif while their myopic eyes deceive them of not knowing vast narration in their pride books. We disregard the notion that says sahih Bukhari or Muslim are the most authentic after Qur'an. What were the evidences of Bilal phillips that Bukhari did this and that before compiling even a single hadith in his sahih? That's conjectures. Bukhari should have included it in the preface of his sahih. Imam al-Hakim nisabouri compiled "al-Mustadrak ala sahihain" in which he added to so many hadith in his books: "this hadith is authentic according to the Criteria stipulated by the two sheik (Bukhari and Muslim) but they do not record it in their sahih" So al-Hakim revealed to us here that Bukhari and Muslim actually follow certain standard in recording their hadith; so where's Mr Bilal phillip conjure his statement? Salam |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by ummsulaym(f): 2:35pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
messages well comprehended. Meanwhile, by the time I finished reading through the posts by the two brothers, I became hungry... now it's time to be your sister's keeper... Ebim kpami ooo   |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 3:11pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
ummsulaym: messages well comprehended. Meanwhile, by the time I finished reading through the posts by the two brothers, I became hungry... now it's time to be your sister's keeper... Ebim kpami ooo Lolz. Haha Ummsulaym! Very funny sister. Ebi kii pani k'oro mii wo o. Lol. May Allah's Rahma satiate you. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by usermane(m): 10:27pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
babylolaroy: Salaam, You simply despise me don't you? And perhaps there may be nothing i can do about that. I am no christian or non muslim as you think, neither am i a quraniyyun like ummsulaym speculated. Am a muslim. You clearly don't like my thread because it criticised some of your core beliefs, sorry if you got offended though. But Babylolraroy, why not settle down, devote two hours to read and digest the Op of my thread. Perhaps you will find that am not lying and my evidences especially the verses justify my write up. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by usermane(m): 10:30pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
ummsulaym: Salaam ummsulaym. We tend to clash often don't we? And it is because of the differences and beliefs. Am not a quraniyyun please. Am a muslim, a monotheist who accept the Qur'an as the sole and only message delivered from God through the final prophet; Muhammad. There are lots of evidences, proofs and verses from the Qur'an itself on why muslims should simply follow the Qur'an alone. So it is just too early to say am a misguided dude. Again, you said i fail to interprete the verses of Qur'an correctly, i disagree with that. Please point out a single verse i misinterpreted. Please go back to my last thread please and read the Op between the lines along with a translated copy of Qur'an beside you. After then, you are free to call me a criminal. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by usermane(m): 10:39pm On Nov 03, 2013 |
Al baqir. Salaam friend. True talk guy. Can you believe the Op is an extract of "hikmah" or divine revealations beside the Qur'an the Prophet recieved? Yes, we must obey the messenger but obeying the messenger is only obeying what he obeyed: The Qur'an. Yes the Prophet is an excellent example to mankind but his true examples can only be found in Qur'an. Obeying the messenger is not obeying Bukhari or whoever 's work compiled centuries after the Prophet 's death without any authorisation from GOD or His messenger. If you notice carefully no where in the Qur'an will you find such info like those covered in the Op,gotten from the hadith books. And the ahlul bayt, how many hadith did Ali compile? Ali and his followers then were strict monotheists, carrying on with the Prophet 's legacy, the Qur'an. Infact i know of a hadith were Ali(R.A) asked his followers or muslims to go and destroy the hadiths they were spreading, reminding them that communities before theirs were punished because they followed the so called sayings attributed to their messengers, abandoning the Scripture in the process. |
| Re: How True Are Narrations Of Sahih Bukhari And Muslim? by AlBaqir(m): 12:18am On Nov 04, 2013 |
usermane: Al baqir. Dear brother, Do you really read and comprehend my reply to you? You see Qur'an is complete but many of its meaning vague (esp. Ayatun Mutashabihat); hence, the need of their explanation by the holy prophet (saws) whom Allah revealed through. For example: Qur'an says: "Ahkimu salat (establish salat)". How? Is Not in the Qur'an. Its a command! The holy prophet (saws) explained and practice how the salat will be established. And that became his Sunnah vis -a-vis Hadith. Allah asked us to pay Zakat! How? On what? Muhammad (saws) explained all these and that stayed as his Sunnah vis-a-vis hadith. Etc. When certain people begin to question the command of Rasul, Allah revealed: "Whatever the prophet command you, take it; and whatever he forbid you, refrain from it" (Qur'an). Based on that ayat, his saying (hadith) and practice (sunnah) were derived. Remember revelation of the entire Qur'an lasted 23years. The holy prophet (saws) neither asked 'any' sahaba to write or document Tafsir (commentary) or Tahweel (esoteric meaning) of any verse of the Qur'an nor his guided saying (hadith) and practice (sunnah). Why? So as not to mix all these with the sacred text of the Qur'an. He however dedicated the entire 23years for recitation, written and documenting, learning (teaching) and compiling nothing but the Qur'an. NB: As a Shi'a Muslim, I am of the opinion that Qur'an was compiled during the life-time of Rasul; and I never believe the popular story of Abu bakar or Uthman being the ones that compiled Qur'an. How was it possible for Muhammad to leave Qur'an scattered littered for 23years while at the same time Allah revealed "Today I have PERFECTED your religion for you..."? What kind of perfection is that if the one we sent with the message did not compiled the message sent to him; thereby leave it scattered to the extent that some claimed goat ate certain scroll...(Nauthubillah). There's more on this! Sorry for derailing but back to the issue! His blessed presence among the sahaba was enough as they imitate him in all he does. So the need of writing 'hadith or sunnah' is not of utmost importance. Now he's about to answer the call of his maker. He declared: "I leave amongst you two weighty things in which if you follow, none will go astray; the book of God and my progeny, my Ahl al-bayt. My lord has given me assurance that the two will not separate till they meet me at the pool of kawthar" Ahl al-bayt (household of the prophet) were his trusted, trained and authenticated successor. They are the ones Qur'an refer as "Ulul Amr", those vested with authority among you". Prophet further declared about ahl al-bayt: "I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate...", "Ali is with the Qur'an and Qur'an is with Ali...", "...Of whomsoever I am his master, Ali is his master..." etc. Ali (a.s) himself declared: "Ask me before you miss me...for there's nothing I do not know inside the Qur'an..." NO SAHABA could EVER claim to know Muhammad than Ali (a.s) for he was raised,bred, shaped and trained by Muhammad. He had been with the prophet before Muhammad was appointed as a prophet. Never was it a coincidence the prophet trained him from infancy but for the later purpose of preserving prophetic legacy. Prophetic Sunnah can never be left and protected by just any sahaba. Apart from the fact that there were Munafiq among them, not all of them were 'scholars' or excellent student who actually understood every single word of their Master (saws). Thereby, there's a need to designate a trained individual (or group) for the task ahead. As learned as Abdullah Ibn Abbas (R), he was still a kid when prophet died. He became a shia (follower and supporter) of Ali after the prophet's demise. He learnt from Ali. Lastly, Imam Ali ibn Abi Talib al-Murtadha (a.s) NEVER ordered the destruction of hadith at any point in history. The first Khaliph (Abu Bakar) and the 2nd Khaliph (Umar) were the ones history testified forbid narration of hadith to the extent of burning them. As per Imam Ali (a.s), in fact history testified that immediately after the burial of the holy prophet (saws) done by him, he vowed never to come out until he "compile" Qur'an. He presented the holy Qur'an with its full Tafsir and Tahweel as dictated to him by the holy prophet (saws) to the first khalipha but the Khalipha and his associates rejected it because of feud between them and Ali. Ali never bring this compilation out again but pass it on to his children (from one Imam to the next of his lineage) which became a gem and source of knowledge. I appreciate your time Salam |
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