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16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba1234: 4:16pm On Nov 05, 2013
Wow, shows how far we have fallen... Those were the days.

16th century Ottoman ad for an Imam vacancy. Today' s imams wouldn't even get to the interview stage.' Latin' some can't even speak English!

YAPIMI 1557 YILIN DA TAMAMLANAN SÜLEYMANIYE CAMİİ'NE, BİR İMAM
ARANMAKTADIR. İMAMDA ARANAN NİTELİKLER, SÜLEYMANİYE VAKFIYESİ'N DE ŞÖYLE BELİRTİLMEKTEDİR.

The following are the characteristics of the imam who will be deemed fit for the position at suleymaniye mosque that will be built in the year 1557

1-YÜKSEK İLIMLERİ VE ALET İLIMLERİNİ BİLECEKTİR.

(He must know tafseer, hadith, fiqh,usool deen,kalaam sciences,knows Qur'an by heart,he must know, mathematics,logic,astronomy etc.. and technological sciences as well as Art (calligraphy,carpentry,iron-smith etc.at least,he will have the knowledge of one of these occupations)

2-ARAPÇA'YI VE FARSÇA'YI BİLECEKTİR.
He must know arabic,and persian

3-AYRICA, LATİNCEYİ DE BİLECEKTİR.
(He must know Latin)

4-KEFERE DİNİ İLE DİNİMİZ İSLAMI, MUKAYESELİ OLARAK BİLECEKTİR.

He must know the comparative religious studies such as islam-christianity or islam judaism ,judaism-christianity etc..

5-ATA BİNECEK, SPOR YAPACAK, GÜZEL GÖRÜNÜŞLÜ OLACAK VE GÜZEL GİYİNECEKTİR.

He will know how to ride horses properly,a sportsman at least in one field of sports such as archery,wrestling ,swimming etc..,he will have good facial features and well built,he will have excellent dress code, well-dressed, neat and clean.

6-EVLENMİŞ OLACAK, KARISI BİR TANE VE GÜZEL BİR KADIN OLACAKTIR. (HARAMA BAKMAMASI İÇİN)

He must be married with a maximum of one wife who must be very pretty and beautiful (to ensure he doesn't look at other women).

7-İLM-İ TEŞRİHİ (İNSAN YAPISI İLMİ) BİLECEKTİR.

He must know the body language,human interactions and the anatomy,psychology and sociological human factors as well as deeply understanding of human nature.

8-GÜNDELİK OLARAK DA BU İMAMA, 15 BİN AKÇE VERİLECEKTİR.
He will be paid around 4-5k a day

http://www.yakupaltinoz.com/icerik/imam-dedigin-boyle-olmali/8/9/48.html

3 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by sino(m): 7:41pm On Nov 05, 2013
Erm bro, is this ad, for a masjid Imam or for a university prof?grin

Well, the masjid would definitely be a prominent one, and knowing the role of the masjid in an Islamic state, one would understand the reasons for these critaria.

Again, these critaria, further shows the emphasis placed on proper knowledge and education for those who would attain a position of leadership in the society during this period.

I hope we can still redeem ourselves, get to a level such as this, where we are enlightened enough to choose the right leaders for the right positions in this country.


And No. 6 on the list is quite amusing lol

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 7:45pm On Nov 05, 2013
ma sha Allah.

a maximum of one pretty wife!!

where are those people who think marrying many wives is synonymous with being a good muslim??

hahha..I will come and read this again..in sha Allah

3 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by vedaxcool(m): 7:53pm On Nov 05, 2013
I wonder how many Imams would in this day and age meet this criteria, they are too stringent indeed!

Mods pls do the needful!

1 Like

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Sissie(f): 8:14pm On Nov 05, 2013
^very few will meet the criteria, and imagine adding more criteria, due to the advancement in science, technology, e.t.c
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tpia5: 8:26pm On Nov 05, 2013
deols: ma sha Allah.

a maximum of one pretty wife!!

where are those people who think marrying many wives is synonymous with being a good muslim??

hahha..I will come and read this again..in sha Allah


it depends on the culture and country.

turkey generally does not espouse polygamy.

nigeria does, because polygamy is part of the culture and the muslims who practice it do so as part of their deen.

some muslim countries also ban hijab, do you agree with that?

1 Like

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by F00028: 8:40pm On Nov 05, 2013
"He must be married with a maximum of
one wife who must be very pretty and
beautiful (to ensure he doesn't look at
other women)."


that's funny!

if he only has one wife how's he gonna advise polygamous men on wives' issues?

and how's the panel gonna know how "pretty and beautiful" she is?
besides, a pretty woman isn't really what keeps a man from straying.

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by F00028: 8:43pm On Nov 05, 2013
tpia@:


turkey generally does not espouse polygamy.
16th century Turkey? you're sure?
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 8:48pm On Nov 05, 2013
tpia@:



it depends on the culture and country.

turkey generally does not espouse polygamy.

nigeria does, because polygamy is part of the culture and the muslims who practice it do so as part of their deen.

some muslim countries also ban hijab, do you agree with that?


There was no Turkey in the 16th century. There was an Islamic Empire.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 8:49pm On Nov 05, 2013
F00028: "He must be married with a maximum of
one wife who must be very pretty and
beautiful (to ensure he doesn't look at
other women)."


that's funny!

if he only has one wife how's he gonna advise polygamous men on wives' issues?

and how's the panel gonna know how "pretty and beautiful" she is?
besides, a pretty woman isn't really what keeps a man from straying.

I guess a sister would assess the beauty of the wife... grin grin grin
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 8:58pm On Nov 05, 2013
Unfortunately, we have seperated revealed knowledge from acquired knowledge. I particularly like the fact that they wanted a psychologist as the Imam. Sometimes that is what is needed to offer the right kind of advice.

An imam will be faced with many issues and he has to be exposed enough to give practical advice.

Our masjids also need youth directors.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 1:04am On Nov 06, 2013
An Ad for a Nigeria Imam should be as follows:

i. Educated in the Islamic sciences and a BSc in an acquired science (preferably courses like psychology etc).

ii. Speaks English and the local language of the community he serves fluently.

iii. He should know comparative religion studies.

iv. Married
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Nobody: 1:21am On Nov 06, 2013
this is a horrible advert especially its restriction of one wife. no wonder the kalifah office was lost on the turks.

if you enter Islam, enter it the whole heart. while i have read posts of the sisters complaining about not willing to share a husband, it shows that our faith needs to be strengthened a bit more. want for your sister all the good that you want for yourself. lets purify our heart from jealousy. made men will not allow a spouse to make haraam for him what Allah says its halal.

and to the turks, just like the muslims in andalusia, spain, mixing purity with innovation or secularism is no longer purity.

it was in this period of turk ruling that the jews bought lands in palestine under the 'watchful' [not conscious] eyes' of the kalifah. and how does a person knows how a beautiful wife is in the heart of the man married to her? this is a completely silly advert. more like grandstanding.

4 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 1:37am On Nov 06, 2013
First of all, this was in the 16th Century. The muslim empire was still very strong at the time so the talk of secularism does not arise.

I do not think the advert is bad at all.. All the points except for 6 are very relevant for a successful Imam.

Also, having more than one wife is not fard and a potential imam has a choice not to accept the job. He can work in another mosque.

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by vedaxcool(m): 8:18am On Nov 06, 2013
RoyPCain: this is a horrible advert especially its restriction of one wife. no wonder the kalifah office was lost on the turks.


Truly the issue of marrying more than one wife should not have made the list, but it is quite possible the advertisers thought marrying more than one wife was a sign of being greedy, if you know what I mean wink or it could be cultural!
RoyPCain:
if you enter Islam, enter it the whole heart. while I have read posts of the sisters complaining about not willing to share a husband, it shows that our faith needs to be strengthened a bit more. want for your sister all the good that you want for yourself. lets purify our heart from jealousy. made men will not allow a spouse to make haraam for him what Allah says its halal.


let's cut our sisters some slack, a woman should be concerned if her husband wants to marry another wife, these days some men are just not responsible enough to run a plural marriage, etc yes REAL MEN grin shouldn't allow their wife determine how many wives they can marry. In Nigerian, marrying more than one wife is a culture but times are changing.

RoyPCain:
and to the turks, just like the muslims in andalusia, spain, mixing purity with innovation or secularism is no longer purity.

it was in this period of turk ruling that the jews bought lands in palestine under the 'watchful' [not conscious] eyes' of the kalifah. and how does a person knows how a beautiful wife is in the heart of the man married to her? this is a completely silly advert. more like grandstanding.

cheesy bros you vex oh! the Turks were kind to the Jews and at the end they got schemed out by a multi - layered international conspiracy, tehy probably thought they the empire would never end!
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Sissie(f): 8:26am On Nov 06, 2013
@roypcain, let's purify our heart from jealousy? Even the Prophet (SAW) wives were jealous, Aisha (ra) once showed her jealousy about Khadijah (ra), Fatima (ra) complained when Ali (ra) wanted to marry another wife.

Oh please for many women not wanting polygyny has nothing/little to do with jealousy, when the men are able to deal, handle and manage polygyny well, then we can 're visit the issue.

A wife who is concerned for her and her husband hereafter will also be concerned. How is it making it haram? The men should also strengthen their faith more.

What's the percentage of the ones that are managed probably, and people wonder why women have a problem with it. At the end of the day who's at the receiving end?

1 Like

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Sissie(f): 8:27am On Nov 06, 2013
Looking at the list, am sure they had their reasons for including that in their criteria, and wouldn't have added it for adding sake.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tbaba12345: 8:47am On Nov 06, 2013
Whatever the reasons for putting the clause. There is nothing wrong with it given the fact that polygyny is a choice not fard. The Job is a choice not fard. It is all within your hands. Linking it to the fall of the empire is ridiculous.

Read through the stories of the wives of the Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him). It is normal for a woman to be jealous. So a man has to manage his home well. It is not a matter of faith that a woman does not want to share her husband. Let us not make it that.

It is however a matter of faith when a man fails to fulfill his obligations in a polygamous home because Allah require it from him.

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by F00028: 10:21am On Nov 06, 2013
you guys need to go read the verse again!

marrying one wife is the exception, not the rule. an exception for those who are incapable if doing justice. so sticking to one wife for those who able is not really a good quality for an imam.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by sino(m): 10:45am On Nov 06, 2013
F00028: you guys need to go read the verse again!

marrying one wife is the exception, not the rule. an exception for those who are incapable if doing justice. so sticking to one wife for those who able is not really a good quality for an imam.
I don't quite agree with you bro.

The exegesis of the verse indicates the permisibilty of marrying 2, 3 or even 4 in lieu of marrying an orphan placed in your custody...

As rightly stated by tbaba, it isn't compulsory to marry more than one wife, and in no way will marrying just one wife diminish the qualities of an Imam even if he is capable of marrying more than one.

I guess their society then dictated why they had to put this criterion, we can't really fault them, it is still acceptable islamically.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 1:41pm On Nov 06, 2013
RoyPCain: this is a horrible advert especially its restriction of one wife. no wonder the kalifah office was lost on the turks.

if you enter Islam, enter it the whole heart. while i have read posts of the sisters complaining about not willing to share a husband, it shows that our faith needs to be strengthened a bit more. want for your sister all the good that you want for yourself. lets purify our heart from jealousy. made men will not allow a spouse to make haraam for him what Allah says its halal.

and to the turks, just like the muslims in andalusia, spain, mixing purity with innovation or secularism is no longer purity.

it was in this period of turk ruling that the jews bought lands in palestine under the 'watchful' [not conscious] eyes' of the kalifah. and how does a person knows how a beautiful wife is in the heart of the man married to her? this is a completely silly advert. more like grandstanding.

And on this note only, you crucified a whole empire..

That is too bad.

1 Like

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 1:49pm On Nov 06, 2013
vedaxcool: I wonder how many Imams would in this day and age meet this criteria, they are too stringent indeed!

Mods pls do the needful!

At this time, a person's value is based on how much they have. People with all of these knowledge, who should be religious leaders abandon the pulpit for money making businesses.

Maybe when we pay our Imams good money, we would get really knowledgeable people to lead us.

I once narrated a story of an alfa who said the knowledge you gained in school is for this world only. Such a person should never have been allowed on a pulpit. He only attended an arabic school and assumes that goodness ends there.

I am hopeful of a generation of really educated Muslims leading us to our glorious past.

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 2:10pm On Nov 06, 2013
4-5k a day??

Who can tell how much that is?

I think the reasons for the monogamy clause could be many
* monogamous marriages are less troublesome and the state of mind of the Imam would be determined by how well his home is.
* the provision for the Imam maybe just good enough to cater for a monogamous household. Some mosques have housing for the Imam close by.
* The Imam's family is a role model. Wives fighting for example, would not be welcomed.



The need for him to have good features too..kai! Them Imams must have been the hottest of the time..and he had to be good in sports etc.. That is like the modern day Model..

Now, if someone has all of those attributes in this day and time...........holla wink

2 Likes

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by F00028: 2:32pm On Nov 06, 2013
@sino
it's not even compulsory to get married at all
...but if you are gonna marry then look to the life of your Prophet [pbuh] and his companions and see how they practiced that ayah. that's your best exegesis.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by ummsulaym(f): 3:28pm On Nov 06, 2013
F00028: @sino
it's not even compulsory to get married at all
...but if you are gonna marry then look to the life of your Prophet [pbuh] and his companions and see how they practiced that ayah. that's your best exegesis.


If the bolded is true, you have just set something right cheesy but really, is it true, like is it optional(I pray it doesn't have conditions osad ?)

1 Like

Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Nobody: 3:33pm On Nov 06, 2013
the muslims in spain were already in decline and the crusade was already lodged in the 16th century. so the 'the muslim empire was still very strong' was really of the strength of egg shell with hairline crack. that is a decline and could not be considered 'strong'. Allah Who knows what is good for man allows marrying more than 1 wife in 3 different numbers; starting with 2. then 3. also 4 before mentioning the conditions of which 1 wife is mentioned.

and to use the 'jealousy' of Aisha [RA] as evidence, one must use the answer of the messenger [SA] and when Fatima [RA] raised issues, the prophet [SA] did not prohibit Ali [RA], but set up a guideline. fortunately, no woman alive today has the position of Fatima [RA] and no man has the honor of Ali [RA]. let us focus on how we please our Lord. even in monogamous relationship, the wife i am sure wants her space and being able to do her thing brings a renewed vigor into the on going marriage.

if restricting the bounty of Allah is not a good reason for failure of an empire, i wonder what is. the non combative Abu Bakr [RA] mounted a campaign against those who refused to pay zakat. I know that having more than 1 wife may not be part of the 5 pillars, but it does happen to be part of the options of marriage. And man is also jealous. so jealousy is not exclusive property of woman. when you are married, you will see the difference. but whatever you do, do it for Allah in the way of the Messenger [SA]



@deols(f): 1:49pm


vedaxcool: I wonder how many Imams would in this day and age meet this criteria, they are too stringent indeed!

Mods pls do the needful!


At this time, a person's value is based on how much they have. People with all of these knowledge, who should be religious leaders abandon the pulpit for money making businesses.

Maybe when we pay our Imams good money, we would get really knowledgeable people to lead us.

I once narrated a story of an alfa who said the knowledge you gained in school is for this world only. Such a person should never have been allowed on a pulpit. He only attended an arabic school and assumes that goodness ends there.

I am hopeful of a generation of really educated Muslims leading us to our glorious past.

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Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 2:10pm
4-5k a day??

Who can tell how much that is?

I think the reasons for the monogamy clause could be many
* monogamous marriages are less troublesome and the state of mind of the Imam would be determined by how well his home is.
* the provision for the Imam maybe just good enough to cater for a monogamous household. Some mosques have housing for the Imam close by.
* The Imam's family is a role model. Wives fighting for example, would not be welcomed.



The need for him to have good features too..kai! Them Imams must have been the hottest of the time..and he had to be good in sports etc.. That is like the modern day Model..

Now, if someone has all of those attributes in this day and time...........holla wink

so if a man meets all of that with abundance of means and he is already married, are you going to out his qualities and close your eyes?
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by sino(m): 3:38pm On Nov 06, 2013
F00028: @sino
it's not even compulsory to get married at all
...but if you are gonna marry then look to the life of your Prophet [pbuh] and his companions and see how they practiced that ayah. that's your best exegesis.

Brother, i understand your point, the prophet(SAW) married more than one wife, so did some of his sahabas. I believe (to the best of my knowledge) there isn't proper documentation in regards to the sahabas and the number of wives they had, and i also believe that some sohabas only married just one.

We cannot compare marrying more than one and marriage itself, since the latter has a strong message from the prophet(SAW). The prophet was reported to have said, "Nikkah is my sunnah, whoever renegades my sunnah is not part of me"-indeed, there can be some valid reasons for one to abandon marriage- while the former doesn't.

The life of the Prophet(SAW) and his companions, teaches us a lot, and that is why and how we learn about the sababun nuzul of some chapters and verses of the Qur'an. If you read the preceding verse, you would clearly see Allah(SWT) is talking about orphans and doing justice in regards to them. It wasn't really about marriage per se, but scholars have been able to derive from this verse and other hadiths, injuction(permisibility) to marry more than one wife and its maximum number.

I don't really think we need to bother ourselves on this issue, i believe it is a matter of choice, we have the privilege to choose between 2 permisible options.
And Allah(SWT) knows best.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by Sissie(f): 3:44pm On Nov 06, 2013
@deols did you say all the attributes, hm LOL. Maybe some of the attributes then he can holla grin cool
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by tpia5: 3:52pm On Nov 06, 2013
deols:

And on this note only, you crucified a whole empire..

That is too bad.



You cant separate a people's history from their culture and religion.
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 3:55pm On Nov 06, 2013
Sissie: @deols did you say all the attributes, hm LOL. Maybe some of the attributes then he can holla grin cool

Except the married part.. smiley

I doubt that he'd be married sef..not with me still single..lol grin
Re: 16th Century Ottoman Ad For An Imam Vacancy by deols(f): 4:00pm On Nov 06, 2013

@deols(f): 1:49pm

so if a man meets all of that with abundance of means and he is already married, are you going to out his qualities and close your eyes?

I will not only close my eyes but blind them to him. angry

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