deols:

The problem is the absurdity of the request. Most women would do what their husbands want. What he wants is something she should not have to give. She doesn't need to stop speaking Yoruba to the child before he learns Esan.

she has to communicate with her son and the best to communicate in is her own language. So she has to keep mute with her child and wait for him to come and speak esan to him b4 the Child learns anything??

and English is out of the question. How does he accept English and not Yoruba? most of the children who learn to speak English at home learn the wrong things and in the wrong way.

All these you are saying are long stroy the truth is that that Guy just want to save his identity which is his SON , i bet you if it were a girl he wouldnt mind his wife teaching her Yoruba and we all know Yoruba ppl know how to colonize things and make it their personal own even when they have to share it with another... That brother is right , mehn protect your own ooo, b4 e enter voice mail

dasparrow: @Post

I don't get why this should be an issue. Why can't the man teach his baby boy Esan since you don't really speak his language? Secondly, if your husband does not want the mother of his kids speaking any other language but Esan to the children, why did he not marry an Esan girl instead? I keep saying it that I can never admire most Nigerians and their marriages. It comes across like a master-slave relationship. It shouldn't be that way. Life is too short to be living under oppression under a mere mortal for that matter who is neither perfect nor will live forever.

This is why so many Nigerian married women look older than their age in comparison to their married counterparts in the western world. This is because they become property to their Nigerian-bred husbands who are very controlling and emotionally, physically, verbally and psychologically abusive. Life is too short to live that kind of life. It is no wonder the average life expectancy rate in Nigeria is a measly 52 years when people from other countries have an average life expectancy of 80 years. Nigerians have a culture of oppression so how can the average Nigerian live long? If your thieving politicians are not oppressing you, your husbands are oppressing you or society at large is oppressing you.

As a woman, you should have married someone from an advanced part of the world and not a Nigerian-bred man who has chosen to keep living in the 12th century. When you marry a man from another ethnic group, what do you expect? Moreover, don't you know that in Nigeria, as a woman, you are considered property and an incubator? Your opinions sadly don't count. This is why I said marriage does not benefit you women here in Nigeria. It only benefits the man because you have no say in the marriage. You are like a slave. Kpele o!

Oh boy, take this cigarette ...
Let me light it jare,
You too much.

CHESSBOARD:

All these you are saying are long stroy the truth is that that Guy just want to save his identity which is his SON , i bet you if it were a girl he wouldnt mind his wife teaching her Yoruba and we all know Yoruba ppl know how to colonize things and make it their personal own even when they have to share it with another... That brother is right , mehn protect your own ooo, b4 e enter voice mail

and how are u yorubas trying to colonize others?did u even read the story at all?.u just saw yoruba and u decided to bring out ur useless generalisations and tribalistic views.

jay bee: I honestly don't understand why couples don't discuss issues like this before deciding to get married. Marriage is all about tolerance, there is obviously a problem the moment either party starts feeling own view/opinion/say is say regardless of how it will impact the other person.

This issue obviously wouldn't go away and i get very angry when people start asking the woman to just accept because;
He is the husband and thus you must obey king kong,
The role of a woman is to just sit listen and be a baby making machine,
If you want your marriage to last then don't complain
Bla bla bla bla

Of what use is you being unhappy about something so dear to you in your marriage whilst constantly feeling your opinion counts for nothing?

To even think about his stated reason for not wanting you to speak your own language to your own son. Isn't his sole reason equally applicable to his language as well.

The primary being the language you guys communicate is English so how on earth would the child pick up yoruba or esan accent?

You are not meant to feel undervalued in a marriage. It is a partnership and to think you will even have more responsibility in raising this child is just making woooow

Anyhoo, OBEY is the magic word since you are a Nigerian woman married to a Nigerian man and living in Nigeria.

TG Nigerian men like this, Gothrones, tingtinz etc. exist at least their is hope

I hv failed to understand d concept of for peace to reign in ur home bla bla bla jst do n accept watever he says its really funny cos wen u keep accepting things u dont lyk for a long tym witout speaking out one day u'll get to ur breaking point n all hell will be let loose n dt scenario is usually very ugly n scary

Y dont d boy learn d two lang simultaneously, in d Nig of today dt knowing d 3 major lang givs u an edge over non-speakers, I'm Igbo trying my damndest best to b fluent at yoruba lang n someone is trying to prevent his child frm learning it... I tire for pple oo

sorry to say o op, I have never seen an Edo man married to a yoruba woman marriage work out good. They end up divorcing. Edo man marrying a yoruba woman is fire ooo. My dear, this is just the begining, infact this is even minor compared to what i have personally witnessed yoruba women suffer in Edo men's life all because of marriage. You have the man's mother to contend with if she's still alive, family members, funny laws like of old. I wish you well ooooooooooooooo.

kendraloops: I'm so so so very angry this evening. I've been having this issue with hubby for a while now, used to think he was kidding but this evening just confirmed it for me.

I'm Yoruba n he's Esan from Edo state. He speaks yoruba very very fluently even better than me, he teaches me proverbs n all sometimes sef. But anytime I speak yoruba to our baby, he gets irritated kind of n says' my son is an Esan man, stop speaking yoruba to him'.

We had a major row over it this evening again. Don't I count in the boy's life? What's the biggie in him learning how to speak yoruba?

Madam, dis shouldn't be an issue for discussion at all or u get confused by peoples comments. Speak English to your child and maintain peace in ur Home. Let ur husband teach him Esan, since u cannot speak Esan, learn. U say in d west, environment will teach ur child Yoruba. Most importantly maintain peace in ur home, don't speak language to d child since it causes problems in your home. It won't change anything. Goodluck

CHESSBOARD:

All these you are saying are long stroy the truth is that that Guy just want to save his identity which is his SON , i bet you if it were a girl he wouldnt mind his wife teaching her Yoruba and we all know Yoruba ppl know how to colonize things and make it their personal own even when they have to share it with another... That brother is right , mehn protect your own ooo, b4 e enter voice mail

The son belongs to both of them!

And I have no problem with him learning his father's language. The mother does not see it as a problem either.

The way the man goes about it is the problem. Not learning Yoruba is not an automatuc way of learning esan and does not stop the Esan learning process.

He does not have to make it the mother's problem. To teach his son Esan is his duty and the wife should teach her son Yoruba.

Chomzy19: her husband's son?? Not their son? I pity d unfortunate female that will end up wit u!

Very unfortunate!

So the man wants his son to pass up the opportunity of being bilingual.

I think the husband has made a miscalculation. He has slighted her. She says nothing to him now, she keeps it in her heart, but God help him he makes a mistake. I don't envy him.

gothrones:

Take it easy my dear boy. Now go and report to mommy and daddy about the whooping I have doled out to you.

get lost.

what whopping?

All you kept saying is about my "mommy and daddy".

Egg-head.

^
That's because you are mommy and daddy's boy. Ye are not a man.

gothrones: ^
That's because you are mommy and daddy's boy. Ye are not a man.

so because I love and respect my parents, Im not a man

you are weird.


and you are tras-se.xual.

tintingz: why can't she just stick to her father's name instead of changing names like slaves?

It will cause too many problems...believe me. If you retained your father's name, would you still carry the title 'Mrs'? How can you and your married sister(s) (imagine you have like 5 of them) all bear Mrs. Kofo (Kofo being your fathers name)?

Afam4eva:
I don't even think the woman set out to marry from outside her tribe. She probably felt she was more or less marrying her fellow Yoruba since the man spoke the language even better than her and was probably more disposed to Yoruba things hence the reason why she didn't seem it necessary to discuss these issues. Some ladies would actually have no problem acceding to such a man's request, that's why people should marry someone they can agree with most of the time. If you can't agree with someone, no matter how in-love you guys are, it's a waste of time.

I know of a thousand and one issues and know nothing of a million and one other ones that will never cross your 'matured' minds until after you get married and you are blindsided by one of them by 2pm on some idle Tuesday! You'd be so shocked that your matured mind had never considered it and be shocked even more that you don't have an adequate response! Whether or not you marry from your tribe, whether or not you cover 'all' the bases. You'll be surprised how these things keep coming up. The bible calls them little foxes. They're inconsequential seemingly but they do enormous damage that's very expensive to repair.

He can speak his language and you speak yoruba to the baby. Children can learn languages easier than adults. You can have that child combining english, yoruba and Esan in one sentence by the time he is 2

Sort of like: mom, kilode bo dia ye...dad fi oje inside my unu

We did the mix so bad my dad laughed over it. We the childen still speak mom tribe more without any mixing.

soul_glo: He can speak his language and you speak yoruba to the baby. Children can learn languages easier than adults. You can have that child combining english, yoruba and Esan in one sentence by the time he is 2

@garrydome,
This is link i was talking about where you can get a US Number on your Naija sim, that enables you to Make call (with US caller i.d), Receive calls and Sms. http://usacallsms.com

You dont need an app or software, just make use of your phone.

willibounce: @ least young ladies wud learn never to marry an 'educated illiterate'. Some men are educated, yet very backward.

High academic attainment is not a guarantee of sound mind.

I pray they do

Lol@ thread!

Welcome to Nigeria where

Compromise in marriage means 'the wife should forgo all her dreams, identity for the marriage without the hubby doing same'

Let peace reign means 'if hubby says 'jump', wife asks 'how high'

Children are for the men with women being their conduit

etc.

Nigerians need their dictionary as well a Bible.

It is well

lobell:

It will cause too many problems...believe me. If you retained your father's name, would you still carry the title 'Mrs'? How can you and your married sister(s) (imagine you have like 5 of them) all bear Mrs. Kofo (Kofo being your fathers name)?

It's not going to cause any confusion, don't be ridiculous.

Let's take the scenario you painted above and assume that all the 5 sisters you mentioned in your example are males, I am sure you won't say that there will be confusion if they all bear their father's names after marriage but strangely enough, you think there will be confusion if they are females and they bear their father's name after marriage.
Let women have independent identities please, this control freak attitude of chauvinists is very oppressive and need to stop.

De Beauvoir:

It's not going to cause any confusion, don't be ridiculous.

Let's take the scenario you painted above and assume that all the 5 sisters you mentioned in your example are males, I am sure you won't say that there will be confusion if they all bear their father's names after marriage but strangely enough, you think there will be confusion if they are females and they bear their father's name after marriage.
Let women have independent identities please, this control freak attitude of chauvinists is very oppressive and need to stop.

You see, De Beauvoir, it's not really a man's world. It's presently a man's world because females have failed to find their own niche, the things that no one can do except females. So, they pathetically hang in limbo! But all is not lost, coz you are still alive, so you can still find out that unique female position.

Now, about your last post, consider this: if two companies merge, there are only three ways they can name the new company:
1. Use the name of company A.
2. Use the name of company B.
3. Form a new name by mutual discussion and agreement.
Now, you will agree with me that one of the ways of doing option 3 above is to join their former names. If we now apply this to a marriage, it means that the couple can either use the husband's name, the wife's name or a new name they form, which can be done by joining their former names. However, I personally dislike joining names for this reason: if Joseph Akin and Ngozi Emmanuel marry and become Akin-Emmanuel, when their children want to marry, what will happen? If their daughter, Mary, wants to marry a certain Hamza Yusuf-Bitrus, what will they do? Can they SENSIBLY follow in their parents' steps? That would be impossible. Even if they do, think of what will happen in the case of their own children!

So eventually, some names will have to be dropped and it has been agreed that it should be that of the wife. Think about it.
PS: By the way, I've seen a family that changed its surname to a name that was neither the husband's nor the wife's. But it was taken from the husband's family or something sha.

enigmatique:
You see, De Beauvoir, it's not really a man's world. It's presently a man's world because females have failed to find their own niche, the things that no one can do except females. So, they pathetically hang in limbo! But all is not lost, coz you are still alive, so you can still find out that unique female position.
Now, about your last post, consider this: if two companies merge, there are only three ways they can name the new company:
1. Use the name of company A.
2. Use the name of company B.
3. Form a new name by mutual discussion and agreement.

In a situation like this, a new name ought to be formed in order to be fair/just to all parties involved.

So eventually, some names will have to be dropped and it has been agreed that it should be that of the wife. Think about it.
PS: By the way, I've seen a family that changed its surname to a name that was neither the husband's nor the wife's. But it was taken from the husband's family or something sha.

Who and who agreed that the wife's name should be dropped? When did they come to that agreement?
Leadership of women by men was imposed on women under the aegis of religion, it wasn't something women or even men for that matter, had much of a say in.

My belief is that for things like this, new last names should be formed for new families while the father and mother get to keep their own first names.

De Beauvoir:
In a situation like this, a new name ought to be formed in order to be fair/just to all parties involved.



Who and who agreed that the wife's name should be dropped? When did they come to that agreement?
Leadership of women by men was imposed on women under the aegis of religion, it wasn't something women or even men for that matter, had much of a say in.

My belief is that for things like this, new last names should be formed for new families while the father and mother get to keep their own first names.

All well in a world where connection to prior names was not important

Names are an identifier and form a place holder

Example... Montbatten is the surname of William... Charles etc

Kate is now Montbatten

If he gets a new name upon marriage, say Windsor


There will be no way to connect Windsor to Montbatten...

Traditionally the man;s name has always been used as the woman was identified by her man

Dont forget in Japan, you take your wife's family name... so its not all bad

pickabeau1:

All well in a world where connection to prior names was not important

Names are an identifier and form a place holder

Example... Montbatten is the surname of William... Charles etc

Kate is now Montbatten

If he gets a new name upon marriage, say Windsor

There will be no way to connect Windsor to Montbatten...

Traditionally the man;s name has always been used as the woman was identified by her man

Dont forget in Japan, you take your wife's family name... so its not all bad

If he gets a new name, all former documents and records with the old name still remain valid, all he needs is a change of name affidavit. We need to change the way we live and think in order to progress, we cannot keep sticking to the same ways of life which we employed centuries ago in this day and age, we must embrtace change to see development.

When you say that there will be no connection btw the new name and the old name; how's so? The Montbatten name was adopted during world war 1 as the family name of William's ancestors, it's not tied to any geographical area or any couintry, it's just a family name and it could have been displaced and replaced by another name that would be the new family name of the new family William and Kate wanted to start.


People follow traditions too much......there is so much aversion to change in human beings. How sad.

the name montbatten acts as a common identifier tieing all lines of the family together

say you were de beauvoir, that name ties all related to you

tradition defines humanity

it only becomes stifling when it tries to block progress

where is the progress being blocked here

pickabeau1: the name montbatten acts as a common identifier tieing all lines of the family together

say you were de beauvoir, that name ties all related to you

tradition defines humanity

it only becomes stifling when it tries to block progress

where is the progress being blocked here

But traditions change.....The only constant thing in life is change and change also affects traditions.

The tradition of making women bear their husbands' names leads women and men to see their identities as unimportant, something that must be discarded in favour of the husband's. It brings about inferiority complex in females who see themselves as less than men as a result and they think and act according to how they see themselves.
The tradition of making women bear their husbands' names is also the reason why people (mostly Africans) see female children as less important than male children, because females cannot carry on the family name.
It is also a very big contributory factor in many sexist attitudes we see today, due to the less importance placed on female children, people also place less importance on the female specie
It was also the reason why there was mass infanticide of female children in China after their government introduced the one child policy. Chinese parents started killing their female children or abandoning them to die because they felt that female kids have less importance than males.

De Beauvoir:

It's not going to cause any confusion, don't be ridiculous.

Let's take the scenario you painted above and assume that all the 5 sisters you mentioned in your example are males, I am sure you won't say that there will be confusion if they all bear their father's names after marriage but strangely enough, you think there will be confusion if they are females and they bear their father's name after marriage.
Let women have independent identities please, this control freak attitude of chauvinists is very oppressive and need to stop.

Exactly my point Beau...There's already enough confusion as it is with male siblings without compounding the issue further with names of female siblings! This 'name-dropping' issue is not religious as you might want to paint and neither is it chauvinistic. It is more of a culture thing and everybody well almost everybody is used to that arrangement and turning it on its head will take some doing.

I dont think name changes are responsible for females not being the cause of patriarchal traditions but rather are an expression of it

This is because men are seen as initiators of families and thus women and kids are identified by the fathers name


Say.. John the son of Smith, Sandra the wife of Simith ergo John Smith or Sandra Smith respectively

I believe the underlying attitudes can be solved and moreover women are free to keep their maiden names

A close friend of mine did not change her name for 3 years after marriage and the hubby was ok

That is being accepted nowadays ..

De Beauvoir:

But traditions change.....The only constant thing in life is change and change also affects traditions.

The tradition of making women bear their husbands' names leads women and men to see their identities as unimportant, something that must be discarded in favour of the husband's. It brings about inferiority complex in females who see themselves as less than men as a result and they think and act according to how they see themselves.
The tradition of making women bear their husbands' names is also the reason why people (mostly Africans) see female children as less important than male children, because females cannot carry on the family name.
It is also a very big contributory factor in many sexist attitudes we see today, due to the less importance placed on female children, people also place less importance on the female specie
It was also the reason why there was mass infanticide of female children in China after their government introduced the one child policy. Chinese parents started killing their female children or abandoning them to die because they felt that female kids have less importance than males.

pickabeau1: I dont think name changes are responsible for females not being the cause of patriarchal traditions but rather are an expression of it

What?
I don't understand.....I said making it compulsory for women to bear their husbands' names after marriage leads to issues of gender discrimination. I didn't say it was solely responsible for patriarchal traditions.

pickabeau1: This is because men are seen as initiators of families and thus women and kids are identified by the fathers name
Say.. John the son of Smith, Sandra the wife of Simith ergo John Smith or Sandra Smith respectively
I believe the underlying attitudes can be solved and moreover women are free to keep their maiden names
A close friend of mine did not change her name for 3 years after marriage and the hubby was ok
That is being accepted nowadays ..

It's because men are seen as superior to women and as a result, they are expected to lead their wives and children instead of women. It is because men are taken to be the head of the families that is why the tradition of women the man's name being taken the name of his family came about.
In India, in the past, women used to propose marriage to men and even pay their groom price and still go ahead to bear their husbands names, although that practise is now dying away and is no longer common.

What i am saying is, both the husband and wife should adopt one name which they will both bear and which the children will also bear. If the children are made to bear only their fathers' names, the belief that the mother is less important will carry on and this in turn will fuel discriminatory attitudes towards women because their kids cannot bear their names and carry on the family name, so female children will be seen as inferior/less important etc.

I am repeating myself now.

lobell:

Exactly my point Beau...There's already enough confusion as it is with male siblings without compounding the issue further with names of female siblings! This 'name-dropping' issue is not religious as you might want to paint and neither is it chauvinistic. It is more of a culture thing and everybody well almost everybody is used to that arrangement and turning it on its head will take some doing.

It has to change. It is causing many issues of gender discrimination against women.

im saying using the name of the male is not the cause of the syndrome you point out but rather a consequence of a male dominated society
ok.. we are agreed on that

But i do not think your solution of discarding names in favour of a new name is a feasible one

De Beauvoir:
What?
I don't understand.....I said making it compulsory for women to bear their husbands' names after marriage leads to issues of gender discrimination. I didn't say it was solely responsible for patriarchal traditions.


It's because men are seen as superior to women and as a result, they are expected to lead their wives and children instead of women. It is because men are taken to be the head of the families that is why the tradition of women the man's name being taken the name of his family came about.
In India, in the past, women used to propose marriage to men and even pay their groom price and still go ahead to bear their husbands names, although that practise is now dying away and is no longer common.

What i am saying is, both the husband and wife should adopt one name which they will both bear and which the children will also bear. If the children are made to bear only their fathers' names, the belief that the mother is less important will carry on and this in turn will fuel discriminatory attitudes towards women because their kids cannot bear their names and carry on the family name, so female children will be seen as inferior/less important etc.

I am repeating myself now.