macof:

You are not ready to learn. A pity that you are Yoruba and don't know a thing about your ancestors and their spirituality. Now I come along u try to mock.

If you are serious you would be able to ask reasonable questions and understand

Kenny4lyfe:

Of what use is a spirituality that doesn't guarantee eternal life?
Of what use is the wisdom, understanding and intelligence that doesn't give a definitive reason to how we got to where we are today?
Of what use is a believe in some diety who themselves are represented by elements of creation?
Oh I'm not serious alright 'cus I'm convinced of the life that I've found in Christ. The glory of which belongs to Him alone and not the works of mortal men!

Arcsniper:
i did it not becos of problems or difficulties.i wasn't forced
nobody told me to do that.

When i was still reading the bible it all started.
if u weren't born in a xtian family u wouldn't.if you were born into a Muslim family,the next thing u will say is thank God am a Muslim.

When i was still reading the bible,i force myself to believe things in the bible.
who is God?.
what xtians say about Jesus and God are lies.
The bible is incomplete even ur pastors knows that.

You might be like me,don't be surprise when u see me on another thread preaching the gospel.but we all know what we truly believe.

Kenny4lyfe:

Believing is an attribute of one's heart done without compulsion. You can't be forced to believe, it's out of free will! Now I see that the very foundation of your faith are shaky. That's why you find yourself asking questions even when the truth is staring you in the face! You need help my friend!

Kenny4lyfe:

Believing is an attribute of one's heart done without compulsion. You can't be forced to believe, it's out of free will! Now I see that the very foundation of your faith are shaky. That's why you find yourself asking questions even when the truth is staring you in the face! You need help my friend!

Sarassin:

Utter nonsense and charlatanry at it's very worst.

Sarassin:

You know absolutely nothing about your religion in general or the Book of Proverbs in particular. If you did, you could not make such a brazenly false assertion.

Sarassin:

There is not even the merest of a hint of the pre-existence of Jesus in the Book of Proverbs. The central theme of the book is the dramatic personification of wisdom and folly, it is a collection of "Biblical wisdom tradition" and a codex for order. In addition huge swathes of the Book is a re-heating of the Egyptian administrative pamphlet The Instructions of Amenemopet. The verse you have manipulated does not establish the pre-existence of Jesus, it is a narrative of Wisdom.

Sarassin:


Thank you.

BUHARIWILLWIN:
pls Sir I sent a pm. Pls reply sir

Sarassin:


I have replied you via email

Ndipe:


Jesus Christ in the Old Testament.

http://biblehub.com/proverbs/30-4.htm

OLAADEGBU:


God bless you sir.

Sarassin:
Utter nonsense and charlatanry at it's very worst.

You know absolutely nothing about your religion in general or the Book of Proverbs in particular. If you did, you could not make such a brazenly false assertion. There is not even the merest of a hint of the pre-existence of Jesus in the Book of Proverbs. The central theme of the book is the dramatic personification of wisdom and folly, it is a collection of "Biblical wisdom tradition" and a codex for order. In addition huge swathes of the Book is a re-heating of the Egyptian administrative pamphlet The Instructions of Amenemopet. The verse you have manipulated does not establish the pre-existence of Jesus, it is a narrative of Wisdom.

johnw74:


@red,

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"In the beginning the LORD posessed me"
"In the beginning the Word was with God"

More than the merest of a hint.

Sarassin:


Not at all. You all really should get over the fact that, the verse you refer to has nothing to do with Jesus. It is simply part of the wisdom texts. And you are just playing with words.

johnw74:


Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

johnw74:


You call quoting and accurately describing scriptures, "playing with words"

Some can see the comparison,
some cannot.

Sarassin:


I grant that you have quoted the scriptures accurately and correctly but I do not agree with your interpretation. In my view you have made the cardinal error that many Christians do in denying the ordinary sense of a text, and replacing it with a made-up foreshadowing or typological allegory. It then follows that your typological allegory then becomes the real meaning of the text.

We know that the Bible itself makes it clear that it contains signs and symbols, foreshadows, metaphors and parables, visions, dreams, and mysteries, as well as spiritual lessons that transcend the description of a particular incident. The lesson, however, can only be learned from understanding what actually happened, not by ignoring or altering the reality to fit what one has already chosen to believe.

The Bible presents as the standard of truth by which all else, including interpretation, is to be judged. Yet your manner of interpretation, by denying the plain sense and meaning of the text, makes that standard useless. The text you have alluded to in the Book of Proverbs deals entirely and substantially with the subject of wisdom. I believe one of the verses you quoted from the 1 Corinthians should have clarified this for you.

johnw74:


@red, my interpertation of those two verses is exactly what the verses themselves say:

Pro 8:22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

"In the beginning the LORD posessed me"
"In the beginning the Word was with God"

Sarassin:


Simply because "Word of God", is applied to Jesus in Revelation 19:13, you all claim that John 1v1 relates to Christ at creation. But then how do you explain the blatantly contradictory terms such as: "I will be his Father, and He shall be my son," "I will make him My firstborn," "Jesus Christ the son of Abraham the son of David" if Jesus already existed at creation?

The Greek term translated "word" is Logos. It signifies the outward form of inward thought or reason, or the spoken word as illustrative of thought, wisdom and doctrine.

In that verse John makes it clear that in the very beginning, God's purpose, wisdom or revelation had been in evidence. It was "with God" in that it emanated from him; it "was God" in that it represented Him to mankind (Jesus uses a similar expression in Matthew 26:28: "This is my blood" -- that is, this represents my blood).

What John is stating, therefore, is that in the very beginning there existed the wisdom or purpose of God, and that it was revealed unto men to provide a way of life.

This Word, Wisdom or Doctrine found its reality, its substance, its confirmation in the person of Jesus Christ; therefore John teaches:

"The word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth" (John 1:14).

The Word was made flesh, or became flesh. The Declaration of Divine wisdom found its substance and reality in the person of Jesus Christ. Before his advent, it was a mere Word or Promise, but when he became manifested, it became a person.

The person did not exist before the birth of the child Jesus; but the promise and wisdom of God always existed.

Yes "Word" is personalized as "him", in John 1:4, but again, that is a common Hebraic literary device found throughout the Bible. Riches, Wisdom, Sin, and other subjects are dealt with in a similar manner.

Again I state that the subject matter of Proverbs 8v22 is wisdom personified. In actual terms proverbs 8 does not help you in any way to make a case for Christ at creation, I may be wrong but last time I checked, Jesus was a man. Wisdom here is personified as a woman: "She standeth, she crieth" (Prov. 8:1-3)

Oh and as for your quotations from Paul, don’t bother. Paul knew next to nothing about Jesus. He wrote purely about a spiritual creation of Christ, I would have thought it obvious.

macof:
I Know God exist. However God is not Jesus, and it's Jesus am talking about.

If he is still alive let him show up.

I can say my grand father is alive but let him show up and people would belief

Sarassin:
Utter nonsense and charlatanry at it's very worst.

You know absolutely nothing about your religion in general or the Book of Proverbs in particular. If you did, you could not make such a brazenly false assertion. There is not even the merest of a hint of the pre-existence of Jesus in the Book of Proverbs. The central theme of the book is the dramatic personification of wisdom and folly, it is a collection of "Biblical wisdom tradition" and a codex for order. In addition huge swathes of the Book is a re-heating of the Egyptian administrative pamphlet The Instructions of Amenemopet. The verse you have manipulated does not establish the pre-existence of Jesus, it is a narrative of Wisdom.

ResameOkim:
Lol, and Jesus is not the Word and the Word is not Wisdom?

Sarassin:

Is there a question in there somewhere?

johnw74:


There are no contradictions, does everything have to be spelt out for you?
John 1:1 talks about the Word being with God in Eternity before creation, He became Jesus Christ much much later in time.

Your posted verses:
"I will be his Father, and He shall be my son," "I will make him My firstborn," "Jesus Christ the son of Abraham the son of David",
refers to the flesh and blood Jesus Christ, the person the Word became.

So you don't believe the Word is God, but is a virtue.

You need to know when the virtue wisdom, is spoken off, and when it's referring to the Word.

Paul had an experience with Jesus on the Damascus road where he was converted.
The same Holy Spirit inspired Paul's writings that inspired the other writers of the Bible,
and yet you say "Paul knew next to nothing about Jesus"

Your entitled to your opinion here on this matter but from what you have written, I'm not interisted in them, bye.

moffymichael:


You are talkig like a kid. Can you see God? The Glory and presence of Jesus is too strong for a mortal man to behold except we are being transformed to an immortal, and that would occur after rapture.

When Jesus appeared to Paul(saul b4), Paul could not even see Him. D only tin Paul could see was Light; even, the brigtness of d light blinded his eyes immediately. We mortal humans are too weak to see God face to face but we can feel His presence when He's around.

So, what u need for now is His presence and that can only be possible if and only if you are born again. If u are'nt born again it means u are not part of His kingdom and feeling His presence would be far reached.

macof:



Why not gimme something that really makes sense and not all this fairytale?

moffymichael:

are u an athist?