Our ancestors are the reason we exist today.

Our ancestors gave us our tribe and our religion.

Our ancestors thought us to sing, dance and to cook our food.

Our ancestors provided the secure ways for us to marry and procreate.

Our ancestors set the foundation for us.

Our ancestors gave birth to us. They created us.


They are representatives of the Creator God.

Their soul is linked with ours.

They exist in our flesh and blood.



Inspite of all that, many Nigerians claim that our ancestors are doomed to hell.

is this fair?


unbelievable. .

[img]http://ourdivinemedicine.files./2012/02/copy-of-ancestors-posing-for-posterity.jpg[/img]

And who created your ancestors?

I am not here for hatred, but for LOVE.
Our saviour's command, "love your neigbours as yourself.
Love your enemies and pray for those who prosecute you."
Praise to the whole world for the SON OF MAN has defeated death.
Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
*For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.
*The Son of the MOST HIGH LIVING GOD.
*The Lamb of GOD, who takes away the sins of the World.
*The Ressurection and the Life.

The Gods bless us wit wisdom and loyal offsprings as they blessed our ancestors.

Those of u who disrespect ur ancestors are nothing but bastard children, who have been cast away and rejected from the goodness of the land which ur ancestors fought for

macof: The Gods bless us wit wisdom and loyal offsprings as they blessed our ancestors.

Those of u who disrespect ur ancestors are nothing but bastard children, who have been cast away and rejected from the goodness of the land which ur ancestors fought for

Indeed these people show that each culture is but one generation away from extinction. Some of us would love what our ancestors built to disappear and I am one who refuses to let it happen.

The Gods Bless you guyz macof and Mamiwata.

Glad to have yall in the forum.

Macelliot: And who created your ancestors?

did I ask who created the ancestors? Whats the point of this post?

SHOW some RESPECT dude.

You mean ancestors with decayed bone?

Macelliot: I am not here for hatred, but for LOVE.
Our saviour's command, "love your neigbours as yourself.
Love your enemies and pray for those who prosecute you."
Praise to the whole world for the SON OF MAN has defeated death.
Jesus Christ is the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.
*For GOD so loved the world that HE gave HIS only begotten SON, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish, but have eternal life.
*The Son of the MOST HIGH LIVING GOD.
*The Lamb of GOD, who takes away the sins of the World.
*The Ressurection and the Life.

Don't you think Jesus made things harder, due to the fact that people in days before Jesus walked on earth, could make to heaven by mere good deeds and that now, regardless of good deeds, the lack of faith in Jesus condemns one.

Automatically, it is more difficult for people with backgrounds unfamiliar with Christianity, to enter Heaven.

@OP

Don't the sons of these "ancestors" you talk about, have the freedom to subscribe whatever belief system they want?

Also isn't paganism outdated, given the fact that it cannot keep up with the modern world and provide the meaningful interpretation it needs!

The "world" got bigger, bigger than a tribe, bigger than a continent, bigger than a planet, bigger than the solar system, bigger than a universe! We contemplate multiverses and silently animated particles, how does paganism fit in?!

It is unfortunate that paganism has to die for the future to live.

Kay 17: @OP

Don't the sons of these "ancestors" you talk about, have the freedom to subscribe whatever belief system they want?

Also isn't paganism outdated, given the fact that it cannot keep up with the modern world and provide the meaningful interpretation it needs!

The "world" got bigger, bigger than a tribe, bigger than a continent, bigger than a planet, bigger than the solar system, bigger than a universe! We contemplate multiverses and silently animated particles, how does paganism fit in?!

It is unfortunate that paganism has to die for the future to live.

Foolish lost soul

Paganism cannot be separated from culture, tradition and language of a people. If u want to discard one u had better discard all and change ur identity, you are right now nothing but a bastard child who doesn't know his ancestry, your ancestorsweep for u.

Ps. Science feeds from Paganic spiritualities

^^

Chill! And address the issues. A bastard child is a social status with little impact on the being. So don't generalize it like it actually means anything. Humans always self create meaning to their beings.

Cultures and languages inevitably change

mumumugu: You mean ancestors with decayed bone?

in spirit.

Kay 17: @OP

Don't the sons of these "ancestors" you talk about, have the freedom to subscribe whatever belief system they want?

Also isn't paganism outdated, given the fact that it cannot keep up with the modern world and provide the meaningful interpretation it needs!

The "world" got bigger, bigger than a tribe, bigger than a continent, bigger than a planet, bigger than the solar system, bigger than a universe! We contemplate multiverses and silently animated particles, how does paganism fit in?!

It is unfortunate that paganism has to die for the future to live.

They can believe in whatever they want, but if they belong to an ethnic group or tribe and make use of its name and identity, then they have to accomplish certain duties towards it for the benefits and protection they receive from it.

This involves practicing, protecting and preserving its belief systems. doesnt matter if its in addition or whatever. THey have no right especially to INSULT it.

The world did not get bigger. It has always stayed the same. Its peoples heads that have gotten bigger.
Paganism is not a religion. Paganism is "truly" a way of life. The natural order of things and how they should be done.


Yes it is unfortunate. For the world to be headed for ultimate destruction, Paganism must die.

no wonder christians and muslims are always anticipating and predicting doomsday. They truly mean the world to end. and soon. .

macof:

Foolish lost soul

Paganism cannot be separated from culture, tradition and language of a people. If u want to discard one u had better discard all and change ur identity, you are right now nothing but a bastard child who doesn't know his ancestry, your ancestorsweep for u.

Ps. Science feeds from Paganic spiritualities

Brother macof. its ok. Kay 17 was just asking some genuine questions.



@Kay 17, pardon him. it so happens that we are surrounded by enemies of mental progress on all sides, here in Nairaland. Therefore naturally, we perceive everyone as a threat. because everyone here has an agenda.

Kay 17: @OP

Don't the sons of these "ancestors" you talk about, have the freedom to subscribe whatever belief system they want?

The answer to that question is evident given the presence of so many Africans who have chosen to disregard their own knowledge and replace it with someone else's. The question is what the consequence is.

Also isn't paganism outdated, given the fact that it cannot keep up with the modern world and provide the meaningful interpretation it needs!

No traditional beliefs are not outdated and they provide a very meaningful lens through which to see the world for the millions of us who didn't choose to opt out. Our traditional spiritualities are not stagnant. They exist today because they have changed while remaining consistent with who we are as ethnic people. They fail to "keep up" with people who want to abandon their own ethnicities and develop into something they are not intended to be.

The "world" got bigger, bigger than a tribe, bigger than a continent, bigger than a planet, bigger than the solar system, bigger than a universe! We contemplate multiverses and silently animated particles, how does paganism fit in?!

There is a world on your fingernail consisting of cells. There is a world beneath our feet where creatures build and take things apart. You are talking about scale and that is relative. Some humans would like to think that what they are doing today is something new and awe-inspiring but it is not. You are ignorant of traditional beliefs so you don't know that all these things have been contemplated before. Unfortunately you also fail to see that it is those who chase technological progress at all costs who are the same ones ignoring a vital tenet of ethnic religions: balance between the many systems that need to coexist to keep us alive. Climate change reminds many of us that humans can not choose to disrespect balance and yet that knowledge has not trickled down to you. We are not bigger than nature.

It is unfortunate that paganism has to die for the future to live.

This couldn't be father from the truth. Time as a linear "object" is a western construct that disconnects pasts from the future. Time as a West African construct is cyclic/circular. The future has already lived and the past keeps giving birth to itself. Ancestors are yet to come and those of us who respect them will usher them in and guard the knowledge they have passed down to us. You have chosen to disregard knowledge and that is your choice but you have a lot of gall to say that those of us who have not made this choice are making the wrong one. Knowledge is never outdated as long as it is true.

^Beautiful.

MamiWata:


No traditional beliefs are not outdated and they provide a very meaningful lens through which to see the world for the millions of us who didn't choose to opt out. Our traditional spiritualities are not stagnant. They exist today because they have changed while remaining consistent with who we are as ethnic people. They fail to "keep up" with people who want to abandon their own ethnicities and develop into something they are not intended to be.

Very important points.

THis is different from "mixing".

Mixing is regress.

THis example youve show is true progress.

THis is why GReek, CHinese and HIndu cultures have evolved so much.

The last 2 are still evolving btw.

Its a natural process.

PAGAN 9JA:


They can believe in whatever they want, but if they belong to an ethnic group or tribe and make use of its name and identity, then they have to accomplish certain duties towards it for the benefits and protection they receive from it.

This involves practicing, protecting and preserving its belief systems. doesnt matter if its in addition or whatever. THey have no right especially to INSULT it.

The world did not get bigger. It has always stayed the same. Its peoples heads that have gotten bigger.
Paganism is not a religion. Paganism is "truly" a way of life. The natural order of things and how they should be done.


Yes it is unfortunate. For the world to be headed for ultimate destruction, Paganism must die.

no wonder christians and muslims are always anticipating and predicting doomsday. They truly mean the world to end. and soon. .

You unconsciously raised a point against Paganism, that it is found on the fragmented tribal identity. In the interconnected modern world, tribal culture and identity has lost its relevance, people are moving beyond borders: marriages, families, businesses cut across the world. More Africans see themselves as Africans.

If I may ask what tribal paganism is a Nigerian with maternal links to Ashanti and a Xhosa wife ought to practice?! Especially if you still believe he has a moral duty to do so.

I ignore most Christian comments on paganism as ignorant.

MamiWata:

The answer to that question is evident given the presence of so many Africans who have chosen to disregard their own knowledge and replace it with someone else's. The question is what the consequence is.

No traditional beliefs are not outdated and they provide a very meaningful lens through which to see the world for the millions of us who didn't choose to opt out. Our traditional spiritualities are not stagnant. They exist today because they have changed while remaining consistent with who we are as ethnic people. They fail to "keep up" with people who want to abandon their own ethnicities and develop into something they are not intended to be.


There is a world on your fingernail consisting of cells. There is a world beneath our feet where creatures build and take things apart. You are talking about scale and that is relative. Some humans would like to think that what they are doing today is something new and awe-inspiring but it is not. You are ignorant of traditional beliefs so you don't know that all these things have been contemplated before. Unfortunately you also fail to see that it is those who chase technological progress at all costs who are the same ones ignoring a vital tenet of ethnic religions: balance between the many systems that need to coexist to keep us alive. Climate change reminds many of us that humans can not choose to disrespect balance and yet that knowledge has not trickled down to you. We are not bigger than nature.



This couldn't be father from the truth. Time as a linear "object" is a western construct that disconnects pasts from the future. Time as a West African construct is cyclic/circular. The future has already lived and the past keeps giving birth to itself. Ancestors are yet to come and those of us who respect them will usher them in and guard the knowledge they have passed down to us. You have chosen to disregard knowledge and that is your choice but you have a lot of gall to say that those of us who have not made this choice are making the wrong one. Knowledge is never outdated as long as it is true.

How does Paganism reflect the idea of Multiverses?

PAGAN 9JA:


Brother macof. its ok. Kay 17 was just asking some genuine questions.



@Kay 17, pardon him. it so happens that we are surrounded by enemies of mental progress on all sides, here in Nairaland. Therefore naturally, we perceive everyone as a threat. because everyone here has an agenda.

I acted on impulse

These days I don't take potential insults against paganism lightly.

PAGAN 9JA:
^Beautiful.

Thank you brother.

Kay 17:

How does Paganism reflect the idea of Multiverses?

So honestly I've never heard the word before but putting the two parts together I assume you mean multiple universes. This is completely consistent with paganism as the spiritual worlds are indeed their own universes. Furthermore because pagan spiritualities are ethnic and do not seek to convert we usually respect the idea that other ethnic groups have realities/spiritual universes totally different from our own. For example I respect the Yoruba way of interpretation which is very similar to my own as much as I respect the Tuscarora the way of interpreting spiritual truth which is very different from my own.

Kay 17:

You unconsciously raised a point against Paganism, that it is found on the fragmented tribal identity. In the interconnected modern world, tribal culture and identity has lost its relevance, people are moving beyond borders: marriages, families, businesses cut across the world. More Africans see themselves as Africans.

If I may ask what tribal paganism is a Nigerian with maternal links to Ashanti and a Xhosa wife ought to practice?! Especially if you still believe he has a moral duty to do so.

I ignore most Christian comments on paganism as ignorant.

No I have stated a very basic truth.

The more the tribal and ethnic structures that very naturally formed, break down instead of being let to develop and take their natural course of evolution, the more the world falls it disarray.

I think humans were created for a purpose. We have the power to destroy, yet we have the power to preserve. and even create. .

A Nigerian of such far mixed ethnicity will do the following:

1)He wont support Paganism.

2)He might support Paganism, but he will unconsciously/consciously work against.

3)He has already proved the above by further marrying a Xhosa wife.

mixed people are generally anti-Pagan as a rule. iti s not their fault. It is just the way things work.

How can such a person be on the right track?

-By doing right things in life.

-Doing right things in the Pagan context -->

Can he truly get his intentions right? Can he promote tribal marriages inspite of being an inter-tribal product?

Can he not marry outside?

Can he not produce mixed kids?

Can he work towards spreading or propagating Paganism. thereby in connection with --

Can he do right / positive things in the world, thereby lessen the negative balance. (in many aspects even those that are nothing to do with religion).




The answer is No. usually it is a No.
This is the ultimate selflessness. The ultimate sacrifice.



I doubt even I could do the above in the place of the guy. It is all natural.

Ive seen it.

Its not the persons fault that he/she is in such a position. The Western europeans did not spill out of europe in such a frenzy to kill and slaughter, loot and r.ape and destroy peoples identities, cultures, Paganism, etc., until after the catholic authorities made sure that the tribes mixed up and got destroyed as much as possible.

The roman catholic church and its powerful seat in Rome, was well aware that the ultimate destruction of Paganism, was the destruction of its material parallel, i.e., the Tribes.

Thus they imposed the one-family rule, destroying extended tribal structures and also other measures such as banning polygamy , isolating groups, promoting migrations, etc.


East Europe too converted, though quite later. The popes hold over these territories was much less. So East Europe more successfully preserved its ethnic groups, maintained many of its cultures and even retained quite some Pagan folkloric beliefs to an extent.

East Europe never went around doing the stuff mentioned above.

You may counter me by saying it was the industrial revolution.

but that was only in Britain, and again its all a chain reaction; this was just a by-product.
Then there was france, portugal, spain, belgium etc. . you know the rest.




so as I said, it is by nature not usually possible. .

but if he can, ,... that is another matter.

Kay 17:

How does Paganism reflect the idea of Multiverses?

in the affirmative.

Multiverses exist. Thereby Paganism thrives on multiple identiities, religions , etc.

However each Universe is independent in its workings to a very large extent.

Following.

If i get correctly, the Multiverse is the concept of parallel universes with possibilities reflecting divergent futures (time streams) from a singular point in time.

I am not sure this concept is scientifically proven

Does it exist in paganism