What a hell

here: I wasnt there but I have tried to look at that listing,the ANC and PAC both banned in 1960 had their armed youth wing.
The ANC were alittle more cordianted and elightened that even when they were banned made their promising members go abroad not just on exile but to study,check Mbeki and not just any kind of study like one economist enroling for African studies at masters.
Do you know how organised they were? They had root in most African countries and before you blame those who listed them consider that their intentions were not fully accepted by even some African countries that once Zuma was to be deported from Swaziland;except for Obasanjo who received them but no account of them operating a base here maybe he didnt allow that.
Lastly like every group that has emerged the world power has always looked at them with both eyes because they could fall into the wrong hands,do you know some believed Castro had links to him,you know how that can be classified but the consolation is when Scotland campaign for his release started notice how many mayors signed asking he be released.
Know I have not made my points but consider Charles de
Gaulle of France how was looked at as only interested in affairs of his people,Stalin was even given better corporation than him,if he were to be from Africa and had an armed group under his party,trust me he would have been classified.

Thank God some people have finally clear my doubt, because i thought i was high when reading this post. What are you trying to say Mr man?

made in nigeria: What is exactly the aim of this thread....is it to create hatred for america which u will be willing to Go to if offered an asylum or to celebrate the passing of a great african

my friend sharap
only gullible nigerians who don´t understand the reality about obodo oyibo will leave nigeria for america with racist and high unemployment.

Ikon to ba wun enibody lole fenu won so.

Looooool! is that so?

collynzo2: Victims of Mandela's terrorist bombing in 1983

what is your piont??apartheid was not true??do you know howmany black africans died in more than 60years of apartheid??i hate people like you,you are the brain washed we have among us

yeah ryt! one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter

What of oga jona ?

Toooor

collynzo2: Many innocent people, including women and children, were killed by Nelson Mandela’s MK terrorists. Here are some highlights
-Church Street West, Pretoria, on the 20 May 1983
-Amanzimtoti Shopping complex KZN, 23 December
1985 -Krugersdorp Magistrate’s Court, 17 March 1988
-Durban Pick ‘n Pay shopping complex, 1 September 1986
-Pretoria Sterland movie complex 16 April 1988
– limpet mine killed ANC terrorist M O Maponya
instead
-Johannesburg Magistrate’s Court, 20 May 1987
-Roodepoort Standard Bank 3 June, 1988

Excuse me if the ANC Armed wing was a terrorist group what do you call a government with a explicit and formalised
directive with an army fully armed to dailly terrorise the unarmed masses deemed legal and supported by the West. Please explain to us then who writes the names, dates and venues that served as a place of disaster which was mostly in their own homes, streets and schools?

I could never fault a people wh seeked to stand up to institutionalised slaughter of their own. No wonder Nigeria never supported the South African armed struggle, anything the US say goes.

shymexx: That's America and the West for you. They had to keep him there just to make sure he didn't rescind on the great compromise that actually favoured/favours white people in South Africa. There's too much at stake in that country and they can't afford to lose the over 70% of wealth, which belongs to the white minority.

However, since he kept his promise - they made him the most popular black man ever. The people's hero and used the western controlled media, to sell his story to everyone.

R.I.P Madiba.

I knew you'd surface on this thread...with yet another extreme view as always. LOL! But I think I'd disagree with you here. 27 yrs in prison is a looooong time to really have sober reflections and rethink one's position about life's affairs, plus only a good natured person can have that kind of radical change of ideology without vendetta or hate spewing forth. It takes the grace of God.

[size=14pt]Umkhonto we Sizwe (Spear of The Nation).[/size]

Umkhonto we Sizwe was the armed wing of the ANC. It was created in 1961. The South African and United States governments classified it as a terrorist organisation and it was banned.

Nelson Mandela had this to say about the MK:

"At the beginning of June 1961, after a long and anxious assessment of the South African situation, I, and some colleagues, came to the conclusion that as violence in this country was inevitable, it would be unrealistic and wrong for African leaders to continue preaching peace and non-violence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force.

This conclusion was not easily arrived at. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle, and to form Umkhonto we Sizwe. We did so not because we desired such a course, but solely because the government had left us with no other choice. In the Manifesto of Umkhonto published on 16 December 1961, which is exhibit AD, we said:

'The time comes in the life of any nation when there remain only two choices – submit or fight. That time has now come to South Africa. We shall not submit and we have no choice but to hit back by all means in our power in defence of our people, our future, and our freedom.'

Firstly, we believed that as a result of Government policy, violence by the African people had become inevitable, and that unless responsible leadership was given to canalise and control the feelings of our people, there would be outbreaks of terrorism which would produce an intensity of bitterness and hostility between the various races of this country which is not produced even by war. Secondly, we felt that without violence there would be no way open to the African people to succeed in their struggle against the principle of white supremacy. All lawful modes of expressing opposition to this principle had been closed by legislation, and we were placed in a position in which we had either to accept a permanent state of inferiority, or take over the Government. We chose to defy the law. We first broke the law in a way which avoided any recourse to violence; when this form was legislated against, and then the Government resorted to a show of force to crush opposition to its policies, only then did we decide to answer with violence."

D pentagon, Langley & Fort meade are really doing a good jabb to keep other countries below them. No qualms, THERE WILL BE NO WORLD POWER 4EVER!!

It is understandable that they did that cos at that particular time before he went to prison, the ANC were still viewed as a rebel group! I think that 27 years in prison reshaped Madiba in all ramifications, changed him positively! Even when he became the president, he was still suspect based on the history of African leaders who laid down principles that they could never meet but, Madiba proved them wrong by not condemning the white afrikaans who opressed them but by accepting the enemy, forgiving them without forgetting the past. This single act was where the world started having a different view about him that this legend could be different from other african leaders. The way he brought the oppressed and the oppressors together through his influence was a masterstroke. I admonish y'all that we should celebrate rather than raise up dusts which would not take anywhere! He Lives On!

mekula:

I knew you'd surface on this thread...with yet another extreme view as always. LOL! But I think I'd disagree with you here. 27 yrs in prison is a looooong time to really have sober reflections and rethink one's position about life's affairs, plus only a good natured person can have that kind of radical change of ideology without vendetta or hate spewing forth. It takes the grace of God.

Extreme? Bruv, it's about keeping it real. I honestly don't have anything against Madiba regardless of the compromise. He's an African hero and humanity's hero. If I were in his shoes, I would have done the same, since there was no the establishment would have let everything they invested in South Africa go. Add all the trillions of mineral wealth to the equation - and you would understand why the Apartheid regime developed nukes for anyone trying to challenge them. And the Apartheid regime also had the full support of the western countries. So I rate Madiba for actually compromising since the spears of the Zulu's can't challenge that. It would be suicidal.

However, as we move forward - I'll like to see Steven Biko as the face of the new struggle. Madiba provided the platform with the great compromise. It's time to move on and get back to the basics and build on Steven Biko's ideology - black consciousness.

Finally, despite the compromise, the Luciferians still kept the man's name on the terrorist list. Yet we wonder why Mugabe doesn't give a fvck about their opinions and their media.

Nkosi sikelel iafrika!

Uhuru!

There is need to put the western leaders on war crime list too

shymexx: That's America and the West for you. They had to keep him there just to make sure he didn't rescind on the great compromise that actually favoured/favours white people in South Africa. There's too much at stake in that country and they can't afford to lose the over 70% of wealth, which belongs to the white minority.

However, since he kept his promise - they made him the most popular black man ever. The people's hero and used the western controlled media, to sell his story to everyone.

R.I.P Madiba.

Dude, a bottle of Hennessy for you. Unfortunately most Africans don't understand this much. If you check the other thread where the op asked to label madiba with one word, my own label for him was 'overhyped' cos of what you stated above.

Democracy is media and media is democracy. There is no other tool as paramount to democracy as the media. Not even money. Whoever controls the media controls the heart and soul of the masses. Tilt them to whichever side u so desire.

Had madiba made any revengeful move against the minority whites in SA, he wouldn't be such a Messiah that you all know him to be today. The same western media that made him the Michael Jackson you see today would have been used to reduce him to a Michael Tyson.

here: I wasnt there but I have tried to look at that listing,the ANC and PAC both banned in 1960 had their armed youth wing.
The ANC were alittle more cordianted and elightened that even when they were banned made their promising members go abroad not just on exile but to study,check Mbeki and not just any kind of study like one economist enroling for African studies at masters.
Do you know how organised they were? They had root in most African countries and before you blame those who listed them consider that their intentions were not fully accepted by even some African countries that once Zuma was to be deported from Swaziland;except for Obasanjo who received them but no account of them operating a base here maybe he didnt allow that.
Lastly like every group that has emerged the world power has always looked at them with both eyes because they could fall into the wrong hands,do you know some believed Castro had links to him,you know how that can be classified but the consolation is when Scotland campaign for his release started notice how many mayors signed asking he be released.
Know I have not made my points but consider Charles de
Gaulle of France how was looked at as only interested in affairs of his people,Stalin was even given better corporation than him,if he were to be from Africa and had an armed group under his party,trust me he would have been classified.

GIBBERISH POO

shymexx:

Extreme? Bruv, it's about keeping it real. I honestly don't have anything against Madiba regardless of the compromise. He's an African hero and humanity's hero. If I were in his shoes, I would have done the same, since there was no the establishment would have let everything they invested in South Africa go. Add all the trillions of mineral wealth to the equation - and you would understand why the Apartheid regime developed nukes for anyone trying to challenge them. And the Apartheid regime also had the full support of the western countries. So I rate Madiba for actually compromising since the spears of the Zulu's can't challenge that. It would be suicidal.

However, as we move forward - I'll like to see Steven Biko as the face of the new struggle. Madiba provided the platform with the great compromise. It's time to move on and get back to the basics and build on Steven Biko's ideology - black consciousness.

Finally, despite the compromise, the Luciferians still kept the man's name on the terrorist list. Yet we wonder why Mugabe doesn't give a fvck about their opinions and their media.

Nkosi sikelel iafrika!

Uhuru!

Why cry more than the berieved about their wealth? What about Nigerian wealth? The South African people chose peace instead of wealth, we from the outside need to respect them and their way of economic distribution. Lets not try and start a fire, we dont need onother war in Africa and as South African neighbours we do not need this.

one day boko haram and militants group will produce president

here: I wasnt there but I have tried to look at that listing,the ANC and PAC both banned in 1960 had their armed youth wing.
The ANC were alittle more cordianted and elightened that even when they were banned made their promising members go abroad not just on exile but to study,check Mbeki and not just any kind of study like one economist enroling for African studies at masters.
Do you know how organised they were? They had root in most African countries and before you blame those who listed them consider that their intentions were not fully accepted by even some African countries that once Zuma was to be deported from Swaziland;except for Obasanjo who received them but no account of them operating a base here maybe he didnt allow that.
Lastly like every group that has emerged the world power has always looked at them with both eyes because they could fall into the wrong hands,do you know some believed Castro had links to him,you know how that can be classified but the consolation is when Scotland campaign for his release started notice how many mayors signed asking he be released.
Know I have not made my points but consider Charles de
Gaulle of France how was looked at as only interested in affairs of his people,Stalin was even given better corporation than him,if he were to be from Africa and had an armed group under his party,trust me he would have been classified.

playboy19:

Dude, a bottle of Hennessy for you. Unfortunately most Africans don't understand this much. If you check the other thread where the op asked to label madiba with one word, my own label for him was 'overhyped' cos of what you stated above.

Democracy is media and media is democracy. There is no other tool as paramount to democracy as the media. Not even money. Whoever controls the media controls the heart and soul of the masses. Tilt them to whichever side u so desire.

Had madiba made any revengeful move against the minority whites in SA, he wouldn't be such a Messiah that you all know him to be today. The same western media that made him the Michael Jackson you see today would have been used to reduce him to a Michael Tyson.

When your oppressors start choosing your hero for you, then you need to be careful. Madiba did the right thing given the circumstances - and I won't call him overhyped. That would be a tad bit harsh on him because he never asked them to put his face everywhere as the face of humanity. Also, he suffered a lot for the cause and not too many would give-up everything like that for a struggle. So he deserves all the respect in the world for that.

Mugabe was destined to be the next Mandela after the Lancaster House Agreement. Most people don't even remember that the same Mugabe was knighted by the Queen in 1993. However, just because he stood up for his people - he became the most ridiculed/critiqued man in the western media. Even Osama Bin Laden never had it that bad.

BluIvy:

Why cry more than the berieved about their wealth? What about Nigerian wealth? The South African people chose peace instead of wealth, we from the outside need to respect them and their way of economic distribution. Lets not try and start a fire, we dont need onother war in Africa and as South African neighbours we do not need this.

Not crying more than the bereaved - just saying making him the face of the African/black struggle is just a little bit condescending on black people. He's a South African hero. And I love and respect him. But imposing him as what all black people should look-up is problematic.

I'm a black man and I don't compromise. And even if I ever compromise at the beginning, I'll definitely come back for my just due and get it all.

For God sake this blacks suffered...imagine d hatred...in ur own land dere will be seperate toilet for blacks, seperate seat for black,seperate schools, u cant carry a white man to court and win, u are never seen equal...Then when dey wanted to challenge or protest against this, they get brutalize, some killed...and some people here are saying why do they resort to violence....When u push someone to the wall, and he sees no way to go,he den defend himself...are we not humans speaking...how can u treat a human being like dat and expect him to be quiet....I am not justifying violence or terrorism but let the truth be told....The whites control the media, dey control everything...they want you beileve what they beileve.....Imagine some people are still under mental slavery, thats what bob marley alwayz fought against...you have won in d physical slavery, but still under d powers of the west, beileving everything they tell us(mental slavery)....Do u know the al-quaeda d west demonize was fully supported by dem in the 80s againsy the soviet union, The west helped formed al-quaeda...do u know dat.....Do u know iran d west demonize was american closest ally in the 70s.....Africans open ur eyes and be free from Mental slavery...

emmy-richie:
And that's what I called infringement on others right. He was fighting for his people's freedom in his [size=18pt]own[/size] land, territory, threshold, home etc... There were no indications that he was killing innocent people.

Actually, prior to his incarceration, his armed group carried out attacks that harmed innocent people. He was arrested and tried after returning back to SA from a stint overseas to receive military training.

In today's world, that would be called 'terrorist training;.

Of course he became a changed man, a legend in prison and outside...and the fact that his name was on that database was merely an embarrassing error, nothing more. Not sure why there's so much of a furore over this right now, I'm pretty sure this was discussed extensively here on NL before

EDIT: I was right. there are threads on this same subject dating back to 2008

texazzpete:

Actually, prior to his incarceration, his armed group carried out attacks that harmed innocent people. He was arrested and tried after returning back to SA from a stint overseas to receive military training.

In today's world, that would be called 'terrorist training;.

Of course he became a changed man, a legend in prison and outside...and the fact that his name was on that database was merely an embarrassing error, nothing more. Not sure why there's so much of a furore over this right now, I'm pretty sure this was discussed extensively here on NL before

EDIT: I was right. there are threads on this same subject dating back to 2008

...... For God sake this blacks suffered...imagine d hatred...in ur own land dere will be seperate toilet for blacks, seperate seat for black,seperate schools, u cant carry a white man to court and win, u are never seen equal...Then when dey wanted to challenge or protest against this, they get brutalize, some killed...and some people here are saying why do they resort to violence....When u push someone to the wall, and he sees no way to go,he den defend himself...are we not humans speaking...how can u treat a human being like dat and expect him to be quiet....I am not justifying violence or terrorism but let the truth be told....The whites control the media, dey control everything...they want you beileve what they beileve.....Imagine some people are still under mental slavery, thats what bob marley alwayz fought against...you have won in d physical slavery, but still under d powers of the west, beileving everything they tell us(mental slavery)....Do u know the al-quaeda d west demonize was fully supported by dem in the 80s againsy the soviet union, The west helped formed al-quaeda...do u know dat.....Do u know iran d west demonize was american closest ally in the 70s.....Africans open ur eyes and be free from Mental slavery...

collynzo2: Victims of Mandela's terrorist bombing in 1983

So you post the pictures of 4 individuals killed by 'Mandela's' terrorist group right? Just 4 persons? Do you know how many black South Africans that were brutally murdered, raped, jailed, etc? Have you stumbled on the report or proceedings from that Truth & Reconciliation Committee? Did you hear of harrowing stories of how people were eaten by dogs cos of their skin colour, how long sticks were pushed into women's privates and how families were locked up in a house and set on fire by the Aparthied regimes and you are here calling Mandela a terrorist while clapping for those wicked and oppressive governments that foisted Aparthied on the people.

Shame on you! If not for anything, for the fact that you don't know anything!

alingo4life:

What is this one saying?

what lingo is this?

shymexx:

Not crying more than the bereaved - just saying making him the face of the African/black struggle is just a little bit condescending on black people. He's a South African hero. And I love and respect him. But imposing him as what all black people should look-up is problematic.

I'm a black man and I don't compromise. And even if I ever compromise at the beginning, I'll definitely come back for my just due and get it all.

Absolutely true. I respect him and I'm in no way trying to undermine his struggle, but we wouldn't even be able to ascertain if he was truly a changed and forgiven man or he was just subjected to the change, i.e part of his freedom bargain was to let go of past wrongful events again him 'else'.

As much as I don't have anything against him, yet I do not see him as an African hero. He was just a South African hero at best. But still, goodnight madiba.

They need serious deliverance... Which american currently alive can boast of doing the same thing he did. They are all hypocrites, smiling when you are there but stabbing you when you aren't... Bunch of hypocrites!!!

I don't expect anything less from America. Typical!

nerodenero: US don't have a permanent friend!

They need serious deliverance... Which american currently alive can boast of doing the same thing he did. They are all hypocrites, smiling when you are there but stabbing you when you aren't... Bunch of hypocrites!!!

ifebosco: what is your piont??apartheid was not true??do you know howmany black africans died in more than 60years of apartheid??i hate people like you,you are the brain washed we have among us

Even Abubakar Shekau and Boko Haram have reason for their activities, they sometimes cite the killings of muslims in jos amongst others.
Such excuses are never good reasons to kill innocent people through terrorism, Osama bin laden had his reason also; American invasion of muslim countries, Israeli occupaton of Palestine etc.
Mandela and his terrorist group killed innocent people and that is inexcusable.