Question:
What's the literal translation of (North, south, east, west) in your language?

Why?
I'm curious to see if any people orientated themselves according to the sun rise/sun set(which are much more obvious markers for global direction) prior to Europeans coming in and declaring north was "up".


Context:
This is a pretty random observation but I was looking through alternative world maps and noticed they were all political reactions to European ideas I.E even though they were changed those changes still revolved around Europe ( sorta like "black atheist" running from the white mans religion but still orientating there direction based on those ides they're running from. *That's not even noting they're just running from one european idea to another instead of finding their own way* ). I immediately thought of the Egyptians orientating their construction by way of the rising sun(life) on one side of the Nile versus the setting sun(death) on the other; with the flow of the Nile denoting that... "we came from the beginning of the Nile were God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon". Now those are my immediate knowledge on Ancient Egyptians thoughts on direction.
(Side note:I also thought of how the Japanese considered that they lived in the "land of the rising sun"

Those thoughts made me wonder how other groups of Africans viewed the different directions in there life.
(Didn't the Yoruba have a story about one of the Orisha casing another Orisha by following the sunset into the underworld)


Reversed_map
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversed_map



A reversed map, also known as an Upside-Down map or South-Up map, is a map where south is up, north is down, east is left and west is right. Thus the Southern Hemisphere at the top of the map instead of the bottom. These maps are just as accurate as traditionally oriented maps, because the position of North at the top of maps is arbitrary. Such maps have been made in several cultures and time periods. The convention that North is at the top (and East at the right) on most modern maps was established by the astronomer Ptolemy[1] and was adopted by other cartographers.

In modern times, reversed maps are made as a learning device or to illustrate Northern Hemisphere bias. Different from simply turning a north-up map upside down, a reversed map has the text oriented to be read with south up. Uruguayan constructivist artist Joaquín Torres García created several works depicting a map of South America with the southern point at the top.



Gall–Peters projection
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gall%E2%80%93Peters_projection

(Green:Gall–Peters projection / Black:Mercator projection)


The Gall–Peters projection, named after James Gall and Arno Peters, is one specialization of a configurable equal-area map projection known as the equal-area cylindric or cylindrical equal-area projection. The Gall–Peters achieved considerable notoriety in the late 20th century as the centerpiece of a controversy surrounding the political implications of map design. Maps based on the projection continue to see use in some circles.

In 1967 Arno Peters, a German filmmaker and historian, devised a map projection identical to Gall's orthographic projection and presented it in 1973 as a "new invention." He promoted it as a superior alternative to the Mercator projection, which was suited to navigation but also used commonly in world maps. The Mercator projection increasingly inflates the sizes of regions according to their distance from the equator. This inflation results, for example, in a representation of Greenland that is larger than Africa, whereas in reality Africa is 14 times as large. Since much of the technologically underdeveloped world lies near the equator, these countries appear smaller on a Mercator and therefore, according to Peters, seem less significant. On Peters's projection, by contrast, areas of equal size on the globe are also equally sized on the map. By using his "new" projection, poorer, less powerful nations could be restored to their rightful proportions. This reasoning has been picked up by many educational and religious bodies, leading to adoption of the Gall–Peters projection among some socially concerned groups, including Oxfam,[6] National Council of Churches,[7] New Internationalist magazine,[8] and the Mennonite Central Committee.[9]

You describe something profound as to the *black atheist running from one white man idea to the other. THAT'S FOOD FOR THOUGHT FOR WHOEVER HAVE EAR and conscience. In Yoruba, the four cadinal points are are Ila oorun sunrise, iwo oorun, sunset east, gusu, south, and Ariwa, north. Great efforts, RAA. Hmmmn when my brother was teaching me the four cadinal point, he said 'the north is up', I said 'can't I chose the direction to call the north?' he said 'things don't work that way except you don't want to pass your exam'

Thanks
To be clear:

language translation:
Native - literal:english - formal:english
1. Ila oorun - riseing sun - east
2. iwo oorun - setting sun - west,
3. gusu - ?? - south,
4. Ariwa - ?? - north.
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Let me try a different format
East
Ila oorun - riseing sun

West
iwo oorun - setting sun

South
gusu - ??

North
Ariwa - ??

Gusu is combination of ogun and esu. Historical wise, Ogun is the father of esu. Ariwa means sighted before coming or envisioned before coming.

Yoruba:


East
Ila oorun - riseing sun

West
iwo oorun - setting sun

South
gusu - combination of "ogun" and "esu"(note: Ogun is the father of esu)

North
Ariwa - "sighted before coming" or "envisioned before coming"

Yoruba gusu and Ariwa are interesting I'm curious how such terms came to be noted with those directions.

is there some "ogun" or "esu" related site(storied or physical) to the south?

"sighted before coming" does that have to do with the stars at night or something(like the "north star" ) ?

RandomAfricanAm: Yoruba gusu and Ariwa are interesting I'm curious how such terms came to be noted with those directions.

is there some "ogun" or "esu" related site(storied or physical) to the south?

"sighted before coming" does that have to do with the stars at night or something(like the "north star" ) ?

I think ancient Yoruba wordsmiths are found of sprinkling their cardinal words with history.

The word Esu is the label given to the matriarch because the ancestors were homesick and hated that they were lured to the migration. They then resolve to slandering their leaders.

Gusu is so called because that was where the leaders of the migrants end their journey.

Ariwa implies 'a-ri-wa'
because the migrating Yoruba moved from here on southward journey.
The Hausa for the same word is Arewa, which can also mean 'we will go and come back' in Yoruba.

Star is Irawo which means 'the scrotching has gone' I don't think Yoruba attach much significance to the stars.

I thought the migration came from the east ...oh wait that was oduduwa. I forget people were there when he came. Never read much about the peoples plight prior to that point
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I can see that, similar to how the AE kept note of/referred to where they came from...
"we came from the beginning of the Nile were God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon"

RandomAfricanAm: I thought the migration came from the east ...oh wait that was oduduwa. I forget people were there when he came. Never read much about the peoples plight prior to that point
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I can see that, similar to how the AE kept note of/referred to where they came from...
"we came from the beginning of the Nile were God Hapi dwells, at the foothills of the Mountains of the Moon"

A lot of people have their brand of Yoruba history, we have one that favours spontaneous generation of man at Ife. Another one is supported by trado-astronomy, Oduduwa is the 'black energy of creation' being the latest, (please don't laugh if you don't want him to 'ascend back to the sky'). Oduduwa is the only multipurpose name on indoctrinations on NL. Yoruba tradition did not support aborigins and colonial kings, but that very 'colomentality myths' is all that people want to hear and peruse.

One has to choose from tradition or 'indoctrination' on Yoruba history at this place, at every junction. May God help us to know the difference.

Personally I never understood how someone could take east and randomly assume mecca. If your going to go that far why not keep going and skip on over to china or India those are in the "east" also. The Benin prince sacrilised as coming from the sky story stuck with me.

RandomAfricanAm: Personally I never understood how someone could take east and randomly assume mecca. If your going to go that far why not keep going and skip on over to china or India those are in the "east" also. The Benin prince sacrilised as coming from the sky story stuck with me.

It has to, when there is no 'tradition' as 'compass' other than rigid, 'present-stuck' bird eye view of history from above. That is why arbitrary conclutions becomes inevitable in the first place. Those pushing such will resort to tradoscience or keep backdating 'Iwo eleru' events beyond what the source they were quoting outlined. We are to see history from down to up in chronological order, not from recent up to baseless down. The Yoruba history is available in tradition.

From your experience what are the aspects of tradition (in regards to pre Oduduwa early history) that people choose to ignore/are ignorant of?

I can only remember east and west in Igbo -
Owuwa anyanwu - East(literally rising of the sun. Sun in Igbo is anyanwu or anwu)
Odida anyanwu - West(literally, 'falling' of the sun)

I don't remember North and South for now. Will have to look up an Igbo dictionary or Igbo bible.

RandomAfricanAm: From your experience what are the aspects of tradition (in regards to pre Oduduwa early history) that people choose to ignore/are ignorant of?

As for me, there is no 'pre-Oduduwa' in Yorubaland. All that the pre-Oduduwa points to is a timeline in Yoruba parent state before the migration. This migration neccesitate the name Odu'a. No Oduduwa, no migration story. Presently, Ife is 'the centre of universe of Yoruba history' and because Ife has 'Moremi-Igbo' epic, this was seen as 'aborigin versus settlers' doctrine. This was stretched to speculation then, and indoctrination level as it is now. So now, if you say pre-Oduduwa, you were indirectly saying 'before the expulsion from Mecca' the same story you don't belief, but which can be useful if East can be made 'the subject of the formular' in 'African context.' Its like switching an old story under the same background, namely EAST. But Yoruba tradition is not 'direction oriented' but 'tradition oriented'.

Igbo:

East
Owuwa anyanwu - 'rising' of the sun (note:Sun in Igbo is anyanwu or anwu)

West
Odida anyanwu - 'falling' of the sun

South


North

North - Mgbago (literally meaning 'up north')

South - Mgbada (literally meaning 'down south')

bigfrancis21: North - Mgbago (literally meaning 'up north')

South - Mgbada (literally meaning 'down south')

something is fishy here. Did you get this from a dictionary?
If this is true that would mean all or part of this word didn't exist until European contact because the word north & south isn't native to Africa in general or Igbo land in particular.

Actually no ...I could be wrong and over thinking things. If you have a notion of the stars or know the sun rises in the east sets in the west you can note a direction that's perpendicular to the movement of the sun. That's literally the phenomena that the word describes(unless your talking about magnetic or polar north). I think my mistake is in confusing the term "literal meaning" with the "phenomena" the word describes. I was expecting the literal translation to point to the phenomena it describes same as east = sun rise or for north = "sighted before coming" in Yoruba(though I'm not sure the full significance of the phrase).

I noticed the need for literal translations & phenomena contextualization when I came across the term slave while reading an anthropology book. When he gave the literal meaning of the word the local Africans used it ment "pot holder" and I was like "wait what"? In the Congo the words' literal translation was a district in the kingdom that was fighting against the king today it's a distinct linguistic/ethnic group. Also when you read what they were doing (I.E the actual phenomena the word slave is sapose to describe) it had little in common with what it described throughout the Americas.

So I'm now a stickler for literal translations & phenomena contextualization. It still annoys me when people say chief, traditional "gods", tribe, etc.


Ok I'm all off topic. Hmmm... What are the words for up and down in Igbo? I guess I was expected something like...

North
Mgbago - place up (up place)

South
Mgbada - place down (down place)

RandomAfricanAm:

something is fishy here. Did you get this from a dictionary?
If this is true that would mean all or part of this word didn't exist until European contact because the word north & south isn't native to Africa in general or Igbo land in particular.

Actually no ...I could be wrong and over thinking things. If you have a notion of the stars or know the sun rises in the east sets in the west you can note a direction that's perpendicular to the movement of the sun. That's literally the phenomena that the word describes(unless your talking about magnetic or polar north). I think my mistake is in confusing the term "literal meaning" with the "phenomena" the word describes. I was expecting the literal translation to point to the phenomena it describes same as east = sun rise or for north = "sighted before coming" in Yoruba(though I'm not sure the full significance of the phrase).

I noticed the need for literal translations & phenomena contextualization when I came across the term slave while reading an anthropology book. When he gave the literal meaning of the word the local Africans used it ment "pot holder" and I was like "wait what"? In the Congo the words' literal translation was a district in the kingdom that was fighting against the king today it's a distinct linguistic/ethnic group. Also when you read what they were doing (I.E the actual phenomena the word slave is sapose to describe) it had little in common with what it described throughout the Americas.

So I'm now a stickler for literal translations & phenomena contextualization. It still annoys me when people say chief, traditional "gods", tribe, etc.


Ok I'm all off topic. Hmmm... What are the words for up and down in Igbo? I guess I was expected something like...

North
Mgbago - place up (up place)

South
Mgbada - place down (down place)

Up in Igbo is 'enu' and down is 'ana'. 'Enu na ana' means 'up and down'.

Mgbago literally means north and mgbada literally means south. Another word for south is 'ndida'. Funny enough I didn't remember these words then when I was writing for east and west. And these words are used frequently in everyday Igbo speech.

Yeah when you said North I should have asked if you knew the means by which north & south was determined.

Examples:
1. Perpendicular to east/west path of sun

2. Tree moss (moss avoids sun so it grows thickest on north or south face)


3. Termite mound face (same as tree moss its widest side faces north/south directions)


4. Star charts & constellations (stars appear in set places of the sky at night)

5. Etc...

6. Etc...

After a method is successfully carried out(saw tree moss) the direction that has been determined is delineated with the term Mgbago(or mgbada).
So now that we know the terms do you know the traditional method for determining north & south prior to Europeans coming in slapping there terminology & methods everywhere?

Hirnaange - West
Lettugal/Fombina - East
North - Yamu In Nigeria, Reo in Senegal and other extreme west Africa
South - Nänu in Nigeria, Worgo in Senegal/Guinea and extreme west Africa

Funaa'nge( funa)= East. Hirna'nge( hirna)=west. Fombina= south. Waila=north

Key

Direction: (in english)
Native Translaton - Literal english translation

Yoruba:


East
Ila oorun - riseing sun

West
iwo oorun - setting sun

South
gusu - combination of "ogun" and "esu"(note: Ogun is the father of esu)

North
Ariwa - "sighted before coming" or "envisioned before coming"

---

Igbo:


East
Owuwa anyanwu - 'rising' of the sun (note:Sun in Igbo is anyanwu or anwu)

West
Odida anyanwu - 'falling' of the sun

North
Mgbago - North (Note: not sure how north or south is determined)

South
"Mgbada"/"ndida" - South

---

Fula:


East
"Lettugal"/"Fombina" - ?? (Note: Not sure how east, west, south, north are determined)

West
Hirnaange - ??

South
"Nänu"/"Worgo"- ?? (Note: Nänu in Nigeria, Worgo in Senegal/Guinea and extreme west Africa)

North
"Yamu"/"Reo" - ?? (Note: Yamu In Nigeria, Reo in Senegal and other extreme west Africa)

---

Unknown:


East
Funaa'nge( funa) - ?? (Note: Not sure how east, west, south, north are determined)

West
Hirna'nge( hirna) - ??

South
Fombina - ??

North
Waila - ??

sdqxxx: Funaa'nge( funa)= East. Hirna'nge( hirna)=west. Fombina= south. Waila=north

Toy yudon?

RandomAfrican,

This is a followup to your discussion with Ladionline.

Humanity moved away from phenomenal living long time ago.

Have you ever wondered why we have different almanacs even though all of humanity see the same sun, moon and stars? We have Roman or Western calendar (the Christian calendar), Jewish calendar, Muslim calendar, Chinese calendar, Persian calendar, Indian calendar, Ethiopian calendar..and so on. So why all these calendars?

There was a time in Africa when people told time of day by looking at their shadow on the ground or by listening to nature like birds, frogs, insects or if they live near water by observing the tide. The dependence on chronological instruments like clocks, wrist watches and other mechanical timepiece has deprived us of our phenomenal greatness. We are dependent on machines that can fail; when they do we are left helpless.

Humanity is divided broadly into two societies -
1. Agricultural - soil cultivators
2. Pastoral - animal herders, nomads

Agricultural societies are often mechanical and innovative and naturally settle nearby a body of water. What the elements (heat, cold, moisture, dryness) do matter a lot to soil cultivators. They are weather forecasters. In this society we might also find fishermen and hunters.

The fishermen use tidal rhythym and fish migration to tell the season. The hunters use animal migration and mating season to tell the season. The soil cultivators use the elements to tell the season. Together the egalitarian society construct its almanac from which to tell when to prepare the soil, when to plant, when to tend and when to harvest.

Yoruba society is an agricultural one, with fishermen and hunters but no nomadic group. So how do we tell the cardinal directions and their phenomenal meaning? Ladi has mentioned the translations but my followup here is on the phenomenal depth.

An agricultural society must have tools and implements, hence ironsmiths and blacksmiths. The Yoruba deity of iron is Ogun. Likewise, for soil cultivators that work in the open field and depend on moisture from rain, thunder and lightning strike must be a concern. The Yoruba deity of thunder is Sango.

Look at the following diagram, this is very revealing. I took this from the post titled Short History of Yorubaland in Pictures.

Fulaman198:

Toy yudon?

. Mi pullo fombina, e an bo?

RandomAfricanAm:

something is fishy here. Did you get this from a dictionary?
If this is true that would mean all or part of this word didn't exist until European contact because the word north & south isn't native to Africa in general or Igbo land in particular.

Actually no ...I could be wrong and over thinking things. If you have a notion of the stars or know the sun rises in the east sets in the west you can note a direction that's perpendicular to the movement of the sun. That's literally the phenomena that the word describes(unless your talking about magnetic or polar north). I think my mistake is in confusing the term "literal meaning" with the "phenomena" the word describes. I was expecting the literal translation to point to the phenomena it describes same as east = sun rise or for north = "sighted before coming" in Yoruba(though I'm not sure the full significance of the phrase).

I noticed the need for literal translations & phenomena contextualization when I came across the term slave while reading an anthropology book. When he gave the literal meaning of the word the local Africans used it ment "pot holder" and I was like "wait what"? In the Congo the words' literal translation was a district in the kingdom that was fighting against the king today it's a distinct linguistic/ethnic group. Also when you read what they were doing (I.E the actual phenomena the word slave is sapose to describe) it had little in common with what it described throughout the Americas.

So I'm now a stickler for literal translations & phenomena contextualization. It still annoys me when people say chief, traditional "gods", tribe, etc.


Ok I'm all off topic. Hmmm... What are the words for up and down in Igbo? I guess I was expected something like...

North
Mgbago - place up (up place)

South
Mgbada - place down (down place)

North, south, east, west is also Afo, Nkwo, Eke, Orie/Oye, similar to Bini.

Fantastic post!

Humanity moved away from phenomenal living long time ago.

I disagree on this point, those modern clocks are still synced with some agreed upon(by Europeans) natural phenomena it's simply phenomena that can only be clearly detected with some instrument used as a middle man as opposed to your unfiltered/assisted sight, smell, touch, taste, or hearing. (I.E something like the atomic decay of some random atom ...which obviously can't be seen by the unaided eye)

That said I was referring specifically to methods of detecting direction prior to said methodologies were imparted by Europeans. For most things a literal translation gives you a clear window into what you need to know to understand worldview prior to Europeans such as...
East = Ila oorun = riseing sun

Yoruba society is an agricultural one, with fishermen and hunters but no nomadic group. So how do we tell the cardinal directions and their phenomenal meaning? Ladi has mentioned the translations but my followup here is on the phenomenal depth.

An agricultural society must have tools and implements, hence ironsmiths and blacksmiths. The Yoruba deity of iron is Ogun. Likewise, for soil cultivators that work in the open field and depend on moisture from rain, thunder and lightning strike must be a concern. The Yoruba deity of thunder is Sango.

Look at the following diagram, this is very revealing. I took this from the post titled Short History of Yorubaland in Pictures.

Again, fantastic post! I'm going to look over the info/image and give it the reply it deserves.
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.
.
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You just killed two or three birds with one stone right there. My background is software engineering and I've been looking at divinary systems in Africa that uses systems larger then binary(I.E "multi-Item & placement" divination systems) where you have 4 or 5 different "items" that each hold a value and you divine based on the "place" they fall along with if/what they touch or not.

That said it's nice to come back to the fundamentals laid down in IFA and see other possible traditional uses. It also gives me more resolve concerning the idea of searching what was left for future generations in order to build a better Africa based on it.

Lastly, I've been looking over spiritual systems and their concepts to get an idea of how the people described and thought about the phenomena they witnessed in the world around them. Spiritual systems are nice sources because they tend to deal with more complex concepts as opposed to simple thing like how much does it weigh & how many do you have.
There's a big difference between...

1.How many cows/much land do you have?
and
2.How has those cows/ that land helped your family survive throughout the generations?

Your commentary on pastoralist & agriculturalist reminded me to look at other expressions of the navigation of the related phenomena other then spirituality. Or maybe I should say before looking into a societies spirituality I should take a detailed look at the life they lead. it's the life the people lead that dictates the type of phenomena that people are exposed to cause it's through that exposure arises a unique spiritual view of the world. That's the point at which you can understand how they related to everything. I might've been a bit ahead of myself.

ezeagu:

North, south, east, west is also Afo, Nkwo, Eke, Orie/Oye, similar to Bini.

The caption says "days". Is there suppose to be some correlation between "days" and direction?

sdqxxx: . Mi pullo fombina, e an bo?

Ko mi pullo, mi yuwi Nayjeria ha lessdi Adamawa dedirawo. Mi hinni ma Pullo. Allah yara yonki.

Fulaman198:

Ko mi pullo, mi yuwi Nayjeria ha lessdi Adamawa dedirawo. Mi hinni ma Pullo. Allah yara yonki.

Ameena

RandomAfricanAm:

The caption says "days". Is there suppose to be some correlation between "days" and direction?

Yes.