aManFromMars:

I no sabi say u fit follow discussion like this.

plaetton:

Not at all my dear.
Atheism is not a philosophical proposition.
An atheist is free to have or follow a philosophy.

Let me repeat that nothing can contradict an atheistic worldview because it is not a proposition.
What I mean is that if God, Yahweh or Zeus shows up at a stadium tomorrow to tell and demonstrate how he created the universe, I might be inclined to change my worldview about God and gods.

My position is that energy is the only thing that really exists: Everything else is the manifestation therefrom.
Energy is self-existent, so there is no issue of who or what created it.

The physical and the non-physical(non-material) universe are simply manifestations of energy.
So, both body and spirit are same energy but just in different levels of purity, density or vibrations.

The universe can only be clearly understood in terms of energy and it's vibrations and different frequency.

Energy, vibrations and frequency = The Universe.
No creator needed.

PAGAN 9JA:


which exmpalins why we believe in many Gods of different (different energies).
The Creator is itself an energy. Probably the primordial one.

Mr Troll:

you say Sango is not actually a being, so why do people worship it/him/she? why make incantations to invoke its supposed powers? why make sacrifices to a metaphor or an abstract concept?

Ishilove:
Hm, interesting angle. So you believe in an origin? The Creator itself is the energy source? Is that what you are saying?

nnofaith: What is all that nonsense you wrote up there folly?! Sango was an alafin in old oyo he was never energy. why are you re-mixing yoruba myths? this is plain silly. for anybody that cares to know the truth please just google yoruba religion. I am also yoruba and i know what you wrote up there are a pack of lies. guys google is your friend.

Logicboy03: I totally hate threads like this


Everyone throwing the same bullshite creator/energy with different names


1)The fake pagan-atheist group (Folykaze and Macof)
These yoruba ninjas are always trying to make their local paganism sound more "sciency". "Sango is electrical energy". "Yoruba advanced sciences agrees with the big bang". The energy in the universe is orisa/olodumare......or some crap like that


2) The pantheist/deist scifi group (Deepsight and Plaetton)
These guys might not believe in a personal god but they feel that god can be described as a sum total of all energy in the universe around us. This is their spirituality. Some cosmic energy ball god bullshite


3) The hardcore pagan
Pagan9ja believes that there are many ways to god and there are many gods. Some find spirituality in science, some in ancestral worship. The only guy that makes a little sense of the whole bullshite. Pagan9ja is true to his beliefs. He is a pagan....not a pagan/atheist/pseudoscientist like Macof and follykaze....or an atheist/pantheist like Plaetton. Just a pagan. While his beliefs are also bullshite....I have respect for the heritage, ancestry and the focused conviction



=========================
Special message for Plaetton

You're one of my favourite atheists here when it comes to talking about the problems with religious mentality. Now, I agree with most of your points until you get into your crazy science. Your pantheist scientific crap- WHICH I VERY MUCH HATE LIKE FOLLYKAZE YORUBA SCIENCES.

First, a pantheist is not an atheist. Secondly, energy is energy. Calling energy "God" or "spiritual" adds no new meaning or understanding to the concept of energy.

BTW, I know......you'd probably ask why my opinion should influence you.




FAWK ALL YOU GUYS AND YOUR BULLSHITE

aManFromMars:
Ok, this is good enough for me. Very clear explanation.

aManFromMars:
Do all Yoruba pagans share this interpretation?

aManFromMars:
I've noticed that even Pagan 9ja has been left confounded by some of your text in the past.

aManFromMars: I've gone through the thread and it seems I've missed a lot already. Let's keep this on track.

@Foly, @amacof, @plaetton thanks a lot for your posts.


When @foly claims that electricity is conscious because it can respond to interaction from environment, what exactly does it mean?

aManFromMars:
I've heard 'stories' of people being struck down by lightning because someone somewhere was vexed. I do not believe these stories though, but for the sake of this debate, let's consider them plausible.

aManFromMars:
Are there non-scientific methods by which one can interact with the forces/energy in nature?

macof:

And I say prove that u are Yoruba

FOLYKAZE:


Thats truth. I noticed he once accused me of 'atheistinized' Yoruba spirituality. I asked him further to explain his view or interpretation on Yoruba hypothesis on how the world came but he said he is more concerned about the pagan religion side.

Though I embrace only the philosophy, naturalistic beamlight and spirituality in Ifa. Same pagan9ja stood against me but when I explained my points on a thread, he agreed and moved on along.

My focus is that we should let go dogmatism....there are facts that can add up to knowledge in it.

Mr Troll: good explanations.

who asks for the sacrifices to be made?

Mr Troll: i'm sure you must have heard of such claims na.

@bold, a basic knowledge in human physiology will make you know that such feats are physically impossible. that is why we don't need to run to every magic demonstration in other to debunk them.

FOLYKAZE:

Morning.





Nope. Most see Sango or other Orisa as a being. But the few educated priest I meet agreed Orisa are natural energies.



Thats truth. I noticed he once accused me of 'atheistinized' Yoruba spirituality. I asked him further to explain his view or interpretation on Yoruba hypothesis on how the world came but he said he is more concerned about the pagan religion side.

Though I embrace only the philosophy, naturalistic beamlight and spirituality in Ifa. Same pagan9ja stood against me but when I explained my points on a thread, he agreed and moved on along.

My focus is that we should let go dogmatism....there are facts that can add up to knowledge in it.

nnofaith: That is the problem i have with you, you cant be an atheist and be spiritual i repeat you cant be an atheist and be spiritual, being spiritual means believing and recognizing religious spirits. spirituality does not exist on its own its tied with religion. its like an atheist saying he believes in the xtian holy spirit or islamic jinns. as an atheist you can embrace the philosophy part of any religion. for instance i have embraced the ifa philosophy myself. Even when back then when i was a moslem i acknowledged and respected the philosophy behind ifa, now that i am atheist i have embraced it completely. The spiritual side of ifa is a no go area because then i will have to believe in the orisas. yoruba myths like every other is comprised of the literal and metaphorical element, what you are doing is that you are trying to re-write everything to fit into science, and that i believe, is fraudulent.

nnofaith: That is the problem i have with you, you cant be an atheist and be spiritual i repeat you cant be an atheist and be spiritual, being spiritual means believing and recognizing religious spirits. spirituality does not exist on its own its tied with religion. its like an atheist saying he believes in the xtian holy spirit or islamic jinns. as an atheist you can embrace the philosophy part of any religion. for instance i have embraced the ifa philosophy myself. Even when back then when i was a moslem i acknowledged and respected the philosophy behind ifa, now that i am atheist i have embraced it completely. The spiritual side of ifa is a no go area because then i will have to believe in the orisas. yoruba myths like every other is comprised of the literal and metaphorical element, what you are doing is that you are trying to re-write everything to fit into science, and that i believe, is fraudulent.

macof:

Mr. "I have embraced Ifa" wat do u know about Ifa

PAGAN 9JA:



Ive already cleared my stand on the issue. Im not against interpretation.

I just don't want to deviate from the real issues.

Ishilove:
Hm, interesting angle. So you believe in an origin? The Creator itself is the energy source? Is that what you are saying?

Logicboy03: I totally hate threads like this


Everyone throwing the same bullshite creator/energy with different names


1)The fake pagan-atheist group (Folykaze and Macof)
These yoruba ninjas are always trying to make their local paganism sound more "sciency". "Sango is electrical energy". "Yoruba advanced sciences agrees with the big bang". The energy in the universe is orisa/olodumare......or some crap like that


2) The pantheist/deist scifi group (Deepsight and Plaetton)
These guys might not believe in a personal god but they feel that god can be described as a sum total of all energy in the universe around us. This is their spirituality. Some cosmic energy ball god bullshite


3) The hardcore pagan
Pagan9ja believes that there are many ways to god and there are many gods. Some find spirituality in science, some in ancestral worship. The only guy that makes a little sense of the whole bullshite. Pagan9ja is true to his beliefs. He is a pagan....not a pagan/atheist/pseudoscientist like Macof and follykaze....or an atheist/pantheist like Plaetton. Just a pagan. While his beliefs are also bullshite....I have respect for the heritage, ancestry and the focused conviction



=========================
Special message for Plaetton

You're one of my favourite atheists here when it comes to talking about the problems with religious mentality. Now, I agree with most of your points until you get into your crazy science. Your pantheist scientific crap- WHICH I VERY MUCH HATE LIKE FOLLYKAZE YORUBA SCIENCES.

First, a pantheist is not an atheist. Secondly, energy is energy. Calling energy "God" or "spiritual" adds no new meaning or understanding to the concept of energy.

BTW, I know......you'd probably ask why my opinion should influence you.




FAWK ALL YOU GUYS AND YOUR BULLSHITE

wiegraf: So, rocks are conscious? In what sense, to a degree where it matters to us? That is, they are self aware?? Not to mention prayers and what not?? And energy requires dog heads to manipulate them. Note, 'them', not 'it', as they seem endowed with personality..

wiegraf: There is a need to not get carried away with pure nonsense in these stories, even if they make you feel good. Leave those in the history, literature, philosophy etc classes, like the stories of zeus, yahweh et al.

wiegraf: They are not, in any shape or form, what one could consider good science. We might as well let yahweh in, no difference.

The water cycle is in the bible, koran got 'cannot mix water and oil', life originating from your balls, etc blah blah, right, no? That's excellent science right there.

And note, just like the other religions, falsify a claim here and it becomes a metaphor, or sophistry (if that) is employed; the bible didn't mean six literal days, more like six different epochs, spirits don't require sacrifice, they require nourishment.

wiegraf: Really? Lightning requires nourishment?

wiegraf: You're simply seeing non existant patterns, frankly. We do this to make sense of our lives, but do NOT excuse this as good science

Ranchhoddas: I think folykaze and macof are beginning to influence NL atheists,they are becoming really soft.Thank santa for people like LB and wiegraf.

FOLYKAZE:


*kindly answer my questions if you want me to swim down with you in this.

google:

nourishment
ˈnʌrɪʃm(ə)nt/
noun
noun: nourishment

1.
the food necessary for growth, health, and good condition.
"tubers from which plants obtain nourishment"
the action of nourishing someone or something.

wiegraf:

Yes, captain obvious, I have to reply before you can "sit down" with me.

No, captain clueless, I do not want to do that, thank you. That's clearly a waste of time, no?

wiegraf:

The irony of you claiming you do not want to run around in circles then posting that..... I don't know what to call it sef.

wiegraf:

The only place you have a sliver of a case is the 'nourishment' issue, and even then barely a sliver. That word is usually associated with living beings

google:

nourishment

ˈnʌrɪʃm(ə)nt/

noun

noun: nourishment
1.
the food necessary for growth, health, and good condition.
"tubers from which plants obtain nourishment"
the action of nourishing someone or something.

Nourishment

nour·ish·ment

- noun
1. something that provides sustenance; food
2. act of providing sustenance or state of being nourished
3. process, system, method, etc., of providing or administering support or sustenance

wiegraf:

See? Or are you saying that, for instance, electricity falls sick?

wiegraf:

And are you trying to pass yourself as cool and level headed? After that nonsense retort to nnofaith above?

wiegraf:

@all, somewhat related, a video highlighting how being openminded and (very importantly) critical works. Sure, I know most of you know this, but I'll leave it here regardless for those that may not.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI

FOLYKAZE:

Rock is conscious.

FOLYKAZE:
Seriously? Lets check your definition pls


Is something necessarily used for living things? You fall my hand big time. Lol

google:

nourishment

ˈnʌrɪʃm(ə)nt/

noun

noun: nourishment
1.
the food necessary for growth, health, and good condition.
"tubers from which [size=15pt]plants[/size] obtain nourishment"
the action of nourishing someone or something.

FOLYKAZE:
If you got brain....you will see how embarrassing you are. Lol


Have asked you simple question but you ignored it. 'I have feed my eye'. Does that statement mean my eye have teeth and tongue? Why cant you use your brain? Answer me if you are a real man.

me:

The only place you have a sliver of a case is the 'nourishment' issue, and even then barely a sliver. That word is usually associated with living beings

me:

No, captain clueless, I do not want to do that, thank you. That's clearly a waste of time, no?

folly:
cry me a river baby. Lol. You are calling on nnofaith.....let him dance to the tune I played for him. I will beat the drum to your own satisfaction.




Look into my face baby. Stop calling crowd on yourself.

me:

And are you trying to pass yourself as cool and level headed?

folly:
*when you come with something better, call on me.

wiegraf:

wiegraf:
This definition?

wiegraf:
Not to mention......

wiegraf:
..Let me quote myself, and not so long ago as well



And let me do it again

wiegraf:
How in the world do you come to this conclusion? And, again

wiegraf:
I would have better luck getting across to your conscious rock. But thank you for doing your best to confirm everything I posted

nnofaith: nourishment! that is definately a new one!!