Belief in god is irrational. Simple and short. Deepsight, your sophistry wont change that

Logicboy03: Belief in god is irrational. Simple and short. Deepsight, your sophistry wont change that

Be clear please. Belief in God as defined by Abrahamic religions or belief in God defined as the nessary causative factor of the universe and mind.

Are both equally irrational?

in answering this, please consider the implications of stating that either definition, is non existent.

Thank you, noble kind gracious and excellent sir, potentate of nairaland.

Deep Sight:

Be clear please. Belief in God as defined by Abrahamic religions or belief in God defined as the nessary causative factor of the universe and mind.

Are both equally irrational?

in answering this, please consider the implications of stating that either definition, is non existent.

Thank you, noble kind gracious and excellent sir, potentate of nairaland.

Both are irrational...there is no evidence for both your "gods". Funny how your gods have no independent qualities of their own when it comes down to evidence. You take energy and claim that it is god. The christians claim that we are creations therefore god is the creator......irrational arguments



It wont kill you to stop using big words....you only impress market women like Ishilove and the ilk

Logicboy03:


Both are irrational...there is no evidence for both your "gods". Funny how your gods have no independent qualities of their own when it comes down to evidence. You take energy and claim that it is god. The christians claim that we are creations therefore god is the creator......irrational arguments

So belief in a pre existent cause is irrational?

Ok.

It wont kill you to stop using big words....you only impress market women like Ishilove and the ilk

I write the way i write and i speak the way i speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

And since you choose to rope in an innocent non participant in this discussion for unwarranted insults, I will have you know that if she is a market woman, you are certainly one of the lowliest dirtiest touts in the said market, useful only as an agbepo, a crippled, filthy bearer of wares which are suitable only for the lowest souls in the said market. Get an education, and stop embarrassing the Federal Government and your long suffering parents by calling kindergarten words 'big words'.

I write the way I write and I speak the way I speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

Deep Sight:


I write the way i write and i speak the way i speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

And since you choose to rope in an innocent non participant in this discussion for unwarranted insults, I will have you know that if she is a market woman, you are certainly one of the lowliest dirtiest touts in the said market, useful only as an agbepo, a crippled, filthy bearer of wares which are suitable only for the lowest souls in the said market. Get an education, and stop embarrassing the Federal Government and your long suffering parents by calling kindergarten words 'big words'.

I write the way I write and I speak the way I speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

#OUCH


Once you start using big words in an offensive tirade, it becomes self parody......removes the sting

Deep Sight:

So belief in a pre existent cause is irrational?

No.....a belief in a God is irrational.

Deep Sight:


I write the way i write and i speak the way i speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

And since you choose to rope in an innocent non participant in this discussion for unwarranted insults, I will have you know that if she is a market woman, you are certainly one of the lowliest dirtiest touts in the said market, useful only as an agbepo, a crippled, filthy bearer of wares which are suitable only for the lowest souls in the said market. Get an education, and stop embarrassing the Federal Government and your long suffering parents by calling kindergarten words 'big words'.

I write the way I write and I speak the way I speak. Stop obsessing on nothing.

OUCH is an understatement. In MK, it is called 'bruuuuutality!!!'. Double combo

Ishilove:
OUCH is an understatement. In MK, it is called 'bruuuuutality!!!'. Double combo

Lol.


Deepsight went hard

Logicboy03:

Lol.


Deepsight went hard

Na you find trouble. Next time don't call me a market woman

Deep Sight:

So belief in a pre existent cause is irrational?

Logicboy03:

No.....a belief in a God is irrational.

But the most fundamental definition of God is as a pre-existent cause. That is what God is said to be.

So at the most fundamental level of definition, you are contradicting yourself.

Deep Sight:



But the most fundamental definition of God is as a pre-existent cause. That is what God is said to be.

So at the most fundamental level of definition, you are contradicting yourself.

No. I don't think you get him.

What Logicboy is saying is, the pre-existent cause may be some form of virtual particles or something no one knows at the moment. And that is what he doesn't consider irrational.

This is just my opinion from what I understood from his post.

rationalmind:

No. I don't think you get him.

I do. He should be aware that there are many colorations of what the term God refers to, however the concept has one most intrinsic fundamental core denominator: namely that it is the pre existent cause.

That is why I stated that he is contradicting himself when he says that it is irrational to believe in God, if he also says that it is not irrational to believe in a pre existent cause. This is because at the most fundamental level, that is the most basic core definition of the word "God".

What Logicboy is saying is, the pre-existent cause may be some form of virtual particles or something no one knows at the moment. And that is what he doesn't consider irrational.

At the most fundamental level, that would still qualify as fitting the most basic definition of God. This is why, for example, you would have the play on words which the Higgs Boson was nick named as - The God particle.

However I should tell you that all that is sufficient, is for us to agree that there must needs be a cause.

If you call that cause Mr. Virtual Particle, and I call that cause Mr. God, we both agree on the existence of something - A pre existent cause, which we see call and see differently. That is not a big deal. Language and Culture alone does that, not to speak of Ideas.

Nevertheless, I should tell you that any world view that renders matter or non living particles as the source of world and mind, is thoughtless in the extreme, and I would even say wilfully deluded and insane.

This is just my opinion from what I understood from his post.

Thanks.

Deep Sight:

I do. He should be aware that there are many colorations of what the term God refers to, however the concept has one most intrinsic fundamental core denominator: namely that it is the pre existent cause.

That is why I stated that he is contradicting himself when he says that it is irrational to believe in God, if he also says that it is not irrational to believe in a pre existent cause. This is because at the most fundamental level, that is the most basic core definition of the word "God".



At the most fundamental level, that would still qualify as fitting the most basic definition of God. This is why, for example, you would have the play on words which the Higgs Boson was nick named as - The God particle.

However I should tell you that all that is sufficient, is for us to agree that there must needs be a cause.

If you call that cause Mr. Virtual Particle, and I call that cause Mr. God, we both agree on the existence of something - A pre existent cause, which we see call and see differently. That is not a big deal. Language and Culture alone does that, not to speak of Ideas.

Nevertheless, I should tell you that any world view that renders matter or non living particles as the source of world and mind, is thoughtless in the extreme, and I would even say wilfully deluded and insane.



Thanks.

bold

If belief in God is irrational,
Belief in generative self-replicating intelligent and unintelligent something spontaneously emanatg from NOTHING is what? Rational or jaw dropping (fill in the rest).
Sombody sold the wrld d most incredible lie he cud come up with an a select few bought it. Provg tht you can convince som ppl to blv anythg.

kambo: If belief in God is irrational,
Belief in generative self-replicating intelligent and unintelligent something spontaneously emanatg from NOTHING is what? Rational or jaw dropping (fill in the rest).
Sombody sold the wrld d most incredible lie he cud come up with an a select few bought it. Provg tht you can convince som ppl to blv anythg.

LOL.. best definition of religion I've ever seen. your own gun..***BANG*** your own foot!!

Good job amigo

Deep Sight:


Nevertheless, I should tell you that any world view that renders matter or non living particles as the source of world and mind, is thoughtless in the extreme, and I would even say wilfully deluded and insane.

You may not know the meaning of deluded. Holding that this universe was put together just for you I would say fits much, much more with the actual meaning. It's like a grain of sand thinking the milky way was put together just for it.

In before you shift and say it was put together to support carbon based life, not necessarily us. Really?

And, of course, the obligatory definition of what 'god' means this month, and your willfully ignoring the conspicuous fact that most people here are addressing yahweh when they speak of 'god'

So back to the initial question, does anybody think that Nigeria needs a space program at this time?

dorox: So back to the initial question, does anybody think that Nigeria needs a space program at this time?

No.

we have more to worry about than throwing away billions of dollars in space.

We need an anti corruption programme tht is water tight. Else the space programme will b anoda leak in d nations treasury.
Besides wats d real impetus 4 d programme. International-metooism? "china went to d moon , america went, now india has seen d big rock in d sky . So therefore naija must visit too?"
america has d budget the depth manpower and curiousity to pursue a space program. Russia has but we dont. America wants to build space stations, is investgatg the habitability of outer space to humans and investigatg inter planetary travel mayb dreamg of inter galaxy travel. They'll die for their vision.
Theyve proven ad nauseam tht they can acheive difficult goals.
Naija nko?
Since democracy presidents hav been promisg constant power and where are we almost 20 years later? The property owners are holdg the masses to ransom so tht the slavg middle class even to leave in slums - an unimaginable phenomena in developed wrld.
We dont need a space programme. We need a pogrom to purge the old rats tht hav entrenched this country in perennial degradation.

We need an anti corruption programme tht is water tight. Else the space programme will b anoda leak in d nations treasury.
Besides wats d real impetus 4 d programme. International-metooism? "china went to d moon , america went, now india has seen d big rock in d sky . So therefore naija must visit too?"
america has d budget the depth manpower and curiousity to pursue a space program. Russia has but we dont. America wants to build space stations, is investgatg the habitability of outer space to humans and investigatg inter planetary travel mayb dreamg of inter galaxy travel. They'll die for their vision.
Theyve proven ad nauseam tht they can acheive difficult goals.
Naija nko?
Since democracy presidents hav been promisg constant power and where are we almost 20 years later? The property owners are holdg the masses to ransom so tht the slavg middle class even to leave in slums - an unimaginable phenomena in developed wrld.
We dont need a space programme. We need a pogrom to purge the old rats tht hav entrenched this country in perennial degradation.

wiegraf:

You may not know the meaning of deluded. Holding that this universe was put together just for you I would say fits much, much more with the actual meaning. It's like a grain of sand thinking the milky way was put together just for it.

I have never said that the universe was built just for humans.

In before you shift and say it was put together to support carbon based life, not necessarily us. Really?

Good, I see you have already corrected yourself, so I don't have to.

Nevertheless those were still not my words.

And, of course, the obligatory definition of what 'god' means this month,

That has always been the most fundamental element of the definition of God from the dawn of time.

and your willfully ignoring the conspicuous fact that most people here are addressing yahweh when they speak of 'god'

I should ignore it, because atheism is not defined as a disbelief in the existence of Yahweh. It is a disbelief in the existence of God.

There's a chicken and egg problem that could perhaps be settled amongst pipul here. Does curiosity bring success, or does success bring about curiosity?

Maybe both sides have a point? Is there a balance to achieve then, and is space too much just for now? Should we take baby steps first, learn how to walk properly, before we attempt climbing mountains or just forge on? If there's gold at its summit, can we afford to spend all our time at its base when the booty at the top could solve many of our problems, etc etc

Deep Sight:

I have never said that the universe was built just for humans.



Good, I see you have already corrected yourself, so I don't have to.

Nevertheless those were still not my words.

Then, good ser, kindly explain what the purpose of this matter/spirit/whatever, which isn't mindless according to you, was when creating this universe

Deep Sight:
That has always been the most fundamental element of the definition of God from the dawn of time.

And how does this address the fact that you yourself change this definition with the seasons? For instance, here's the definition you just gave

YOU:

namely that it (god) is the pre existent cause.

Where in this definition is there an allusion to 'god' being conscious as a requirement? You did state in the very same post that thinking this pre existent cause was/is not conscious is "wilfully deluded and insane", no? So, how is this your definition of god?

Deep Sight:
I should ignore it, because atheism is not defined as a disbelief in the existence of Yahweh. It is a disbelief in the existence of God.

No offense, oga, but one can't help but think you're being disingenuous. It is a disbelief in the existence of supernatural gods, deities, etc. The supernatural. The definition you gave above does not in anyway contradict an atheistic stance.

So, again, when we address god, we're addressing supernatural definitions. And mostly, clearly, yahweh. Simply because it's the most supported notion in our environment.

plaetton:

Wow. This is great.
This what I mean. This is kind of agency and this type of enterprise should occupy front page on our media as often as possible. Push politics and religion to the curb and showcase human ingenuity and possibilities.

Our national consciousness , especially of the young, needs to be fed and nurtured on the works of such an agency. It should be a source of national pride and a magnet for the cranially dexterous.

Anything, anything at all to increase our national IQ and neutralize the debilitating effects of magical thinking and religious bullshyts.

lol. Foolish man. Only a blind person would delibrately ignore in blindness the definitive order of space and time and space-time and gravity living in coherence and order and strategic positions in the cosmos. You are blind. Your delibrate blindness does you no good. You need to be told this to your face. Maybe you will wake up from your stupor.

Only a foolish man would say that launching us into space and space knowledge will solve our basic problems of life and guide us into truth. Foolishness of the highest order. May God save us from foolishness such as this.

Logicboy03: Belief in god is irrational. Simple and short. Deepsight, your sophistry wont change that

disbelief in god is foolish idiocy of the highest order. Turning men into deluded morally depraved fools and turning them blind. Simple and short. Your epileptic threads won't change fact.
To claim you're even smart by disbelieving in God, especially yhwh, is very stjupid and shows one is under an influence.

rationalmind:

No. I don't think you get him.

What Logicboy is saying is, the pre-existent cause may be some form of virtual particles or something no one knows at the moment. And that is what he doesn't consider irrational.

This is just my opinion from what I understood from his post.

your opinion is stjupid and contradicting beyond measure. It is also convenient for you. Just as it is convenient for people not to believe that Jesus is the saviour and God's manifestation of himself in man. In all power and compassion and vehemence and enormosity and judgement.

It is very convenient for people to choose to respect Jesus, but deny him still, to be impressed by his teachings(the teachings convenient for them) and not even obey them.

Unfortunately Jesus' words did not give any place for simple acknowledging of good words and a good life.

Its either he was insane or who he said he was.
I'm saying this for the benefit of some, Jesus came to break heavy yet good news to man. To burst his bubble of false images and foolish delusions of reality. He came to break hard news, yet good news. He came to say first that God was never going to be impressed with humanity whom he had created until they accepted a change only given by his providence.

Joshthefirst: your opinion is stjupid and contradicting beyond measure. It is also convenient for you. Just as it is convenient for people not to believe that Jesus is the saviour and God's manifestation of himself in man. In all power and compassion and vehemence and enormosity and judgement.

It is very convenient for people to choose to respect Jesus, but deny him still, to be impressed by his teachings(the teachings convenient for them) and not even obey them.

Unfortunately Jesus' words did not give any place for simple acknowledging of good words and a good life.

Its either he was insane or who he said he was.
I'm saying this for the benefit of some, Jesus came to break heavy yet good news to man. To burst his bubble of false images and foolish delusions of reality. He came to break hard news, yet good news. He came to say first that God was never going to be impressed with humanity whom he had created until they accepted a change only given by his providence.

I read the bolded alone. It gladdens my heart to know that, if truly there is a hell, ure going to join us there.

hello Josh, I thought we had been finally relieved of your nonsense.

Mr Troll: hello Josh, I thought we had been finally relieved of your nonsense.

Its getting worse.

Mr Troll: hello Josh, I thought we had been finally relieved of your nonsense.

hello troll. Sorry, but people like me always come up to adress foolishness and delusions.