Let us speak of existence and origin.

Now I'll post a verse, or even teo verses from the bible. I'm a christian after all.

Romans 1:19  For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them. 20  For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],

This verse clearly states that the attributes of God can be known or implied by his handiworks: creation, and are also instinctive for us, injected into our very consciousness. Have you wondered why most religions have a supreme God amongst them? The head and orderer of the universe?



Well, any ideas or thoughts on the origin of space-time and the universe? Of life?

We look all around and see extreme design. So there must be a designer. This designer must be the origin. We know this in our inner consciousness. The designer is uncaused. Before there is any lashing out at this fact, think for a little while, let your mind explore instinct; it is foolish to go ahead and ask who caused God, because he is self-existent, uncreated, beyond time and space. Yes, that's one of the implied attributes of the starter, implied by his works. There must be a starter of all the starters. Think beyond the starters themselves to get this point. Its quite simple actually.(Its pathetic that some who actually ignores the fact of God's self-existence claims non-conscious non-directed energy is self-existent. Puerile)

Those who make their claims of non-directed, non-conscious, unintelligent, randomness being the starter of the miracle of life can make their case.

I'll be back in the morning.

Joshthefirst:
Well, any ideas or thoughts on the origin of space-time and the universe? Of life?

We know this in our inner consciousness.

Lol.

Joshthefirst: We look all around and see extreme design. So there must be a designer. This designer must be the origin. We know this in our inner consciousness. The designer is uncaused. Before there is any lashing out at this fact, think for a little while, let your mind explore instinct; it is foolish to go ahead and ask who caused God, because he is self-existent, uncreated, beyond time and space. Yes, that's one of the implied attributes of the starter, implied by his works. There must be a starter of all the starters. Think beyond the starters themselves to get this point. Its quite simple actually.(Its pathetic that some who actually challenge God's self-existence claim non-conscious non-directed energy is self-existent. Puerile)

Those who make their claims of non-directed, non-conscious, unintelligent, randomness being the starter of the miracle of life can make their case.

I'll be back in the morning.

Saying God is uncaused, uncreated, self existent is actually a logical fallacy called Begging the Question a.ka. Pettitio principii

BEGGING THE QUESTION

A fallacy in which the premise of an argument presupposes the truth of its conclusion; in other words, the argument takes for granted what it is supposed to prove.

here is another that drives home the point better

"Begging the question"is a form of logical fallacy in which a statement or claim is assumed to be true without evidence other than the statement or claim itself. When one begs the question, the initial assumption of a statement is treated as already proven without any logic to show why the statement is true in the first place.

in essence, you have just assumed God is uncaused, uncreated, bla bla bla, without any single evidence or logic to back it up. Saying its an implied attribute of the starter also begs the question and means nothing.

The implication of your argument is, anyone can simply say any uncaused, uncreated thing caused the universe. I might say, Zeus is the uncaused, uncreated being, platteon might also say, the spaghetti meatball is the uncaused, uncreated being. We all will end up begging the question

^^^ Does eternity exist?

Deep Sight:
^^^ Does eternity exist?

NO.

PS: My answer is actually with respect to the universe.

@joshthefirst

Why does God design? Why doesn't he just will it?! For God to design, it presumes that God had to adapt to a preexisting environment. For example, why can't God boil water with ice rather than heat?

Kay 17: @joshthefirst

Why does God design? Why doesn't he just will it?! For God to design, it presumes that God had to adapt to a preexisting environment. For example, why can't God boil water with ice rather than heat?

What's the fun In that?

God is more complex than that the universe,the universe is too complex to be uncaused,but somehow the more complex God is uncaused#idontire#

^^^ It's part of the mystery that is God.

texanomaly:

What's the fun I'm that?

Assuming there is no fun in that, designing presumes a preexisting world with its own physical laws, which the designer must observe. For example a car manufacturer can not build a car if he does not consider the laws and principles of motion

Manhunter™:
^^^ It's part of the mystery that is God.

One can easily say the same about anything, ie the Universe. The reasoning process must be strict. If all things must be caused, so be it.

Newsflash the "first cause" and the source of the "singularity" has just been discovered.

It is the flying spaghetti monster! Wait a minute, it is not; it is the invisible pink unicorn. No, not actually. It is Russell's teapot! Hurray for science and scientism!

Enigma: Newsflash the "first cause" and the source of the "singularity" has just been discovered.

It is the flying spaghetti monster! Wait a minute, it is not; it is the invisible pink unicorn. No, not actually. It is Russell's teapot! Hurray for science and scientism!

Tears of joy...I am so happy for Enigma.....cant believe that he can make a joke on religion....

I believe there is a creator, the problem is the true identity of the creator

Is it
1. Allah
2. Jehovah
3. Chineke
4. Olorun
5. Zeus
6. Odin


Wat if all these are not even the true identity but just Human beings being imaginative and creative to form a God amongst their society

I can come and claim the true God is Kazami but how can I prove my belief over others?

Pls don't force a name of a God upon people, that's why I don't like all this Islam and Jesus people because they praise the name of a God that is not from their land.

Logicboy03:



Tears of joy...I am so happy for Enigma.....cant believe that he can make a joke on religion....

You want to buy a vote for the poster of the year award thing?

Enigma:

You want to buy a vote for the poster of thew year award thing?

lol....stop derailing

Enigma:

You want to buy a vote for the poster of the year award thing?

OlaoChi: I believe there is a creator, the problem is the true identity of the creator

Is it
1. Allah
2. Jehovah
3. Chineke
4. Olorun
5. Zeus
6. Odin


Wat if all these are not even the true identity but just Human beings being imaginative and creative to form a God amongst their society

I can come and claim the true God is Kazami but how can I prove my belief over others?

Pls don't force a name of a God upon people, that's why I don't like all this Islam and Jesus people because they praise the name of a God that is not from their land.

Prophecies getting fulfilled =>>>

Isaiah 54:5 (King James Version)

For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Logicboy03:





Tears of joy...I am so happy for Enigma.....cant believe that he can make a joke on religion....

You can say that again. I am shocked out of my pants.

It must be the Christmas spirit.
I hope it lasts.
Someone must be expecting goodies from good old Santa, the reason for the season.

doubleDx:

Prophecies getting fulfilled =>>>

Isaiah 54:5 (King James Version)

For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Hey, I have a qoute from my old comic book asserting that Odin was the supreme god of the universe.
Can I quote it here to support my arguments?

Joshthefirst: Let us speak of existence and origin.

Now I'll post a verse, or even teo verses from the bible. I'm a christian after all.

Romans 1:19  For that which is known about God is evident to them and made plain in their inner consciousness, because God [Himself] has shown it to them. 20  For ever since the creation of the world His invisible nature and attributes, that is, His eternal power and divinity, have been made intelligible and clearly discernible in and through the things that have been made (His handiworks). So [men] are without excuse [altogether without any defense or justification],

This verse clearly states that the attributes of God can be known or implied by his handiworks: creation, and are also instinctive for us, injected into our very consciousness. Have you wondered why most religions have a supreme God amongst them? The head and orderer of the universe?



Well, any ideas or thoughts on the origin of space-time and the universe? Of life?

We look all around and see extreme design. So there must be a designer. This designer must be the origin. We know this in our inner consciousness. The designer is uncaused. Before there is any lashing out at this fact, think for a little while, let your mind explore instinct; it is foolish to go ahead and ask who caused God, because he is self-existent, uncreated, beyond time and space. Yes, that's one of the implied attributes of the starter, implied by his works. There must be a starter of all the starters. Think beyond the starters themselves to get this point. Its quite simple actually.(Its pathetic that some who actually challenge God's self-existence claim non-conscious non-directed energy is self-existent. Puerile)

Those who make their claims of non-directed, non-conscious, unintelligent, randomness being the starter of the miracle of life can make their case.

I'll be back in the morning.

Classic olodoism.

Can I use my children's story books to show proof that Santa is not only real, but also Omni present, omniscience and omnipotent?

Secondly, if you cannot show or even speculate as to who or what created god, then it is silly to promote the idea that god is the first starter.
Have you ever heard of infinite regression?

Manhunter™:
^^^ It's part of the mystery that is God.

First, if god is a mystery, then why should anyone claim to know god?
Why should anyone even claim with confidence that god exists?
Does't that prove that god is simply an idea, an abstract notion?
And yet all theists fiercely reject the suggestion that god is a notion.
When pressed, they claim that he is a mystery.

So, why don't we redefine god.
Rather than saying that a god created the universe, why don't we simply say that Mystery is the origin of the universe?

plaetton:

First, if god is a mystery, then why should anyone claim to know god?
Why should anyone even claim with confidence that god exists?
Does't that prove that god is simply an idea, an abstract notion?
And yet all theists fiercely reject the suggestion that god is a notion.
When pressed, they claim that he is a mystery.

So, why don't we redefine god.
Rather than saying that a god created the universe, why don't we simply say that Mystery is the origin of the universe?

EPIC

plaetton:

Mystery is the origin of the universe?

Indeed, this statement is golden and should be engraved on the golden sacred tablets of eternal wisdom.

That's why I worship NOTHING (which is roughly a synonym for mystery)

Cos
According to religious folks...
1. NOTHING is greater than god
2. NOTHING exists before god exists.
3. God is created by NOTHING
4. God's wisdom is inferior to NOTHING
5. NOTHING is beyond the omnipotence and omniscience of god.

Therefore NOTHING is the true god that created the universe, the uncaused Cause and the Prime Mover and this god is far far superior to any Allah and Yahweh.

cyrexx:

Indeed, this statement is golden and should be engraved on the golden sacred tablets of eternal wisdom.

That's why I worship NOTHING (which is roughly a synonym for mystery)

Cos
According to religious folks...
1. NOTHING is greater than god
2. NOTHING exists before god exists.
3. God is created by NOTHING
4. God's wisdom is inferior to NOTHING
5. NOTHING is beyond the omnipotence and omniscience of god.

Therefore NOTHING is the true god that created the universe, the uncaused Cause and the Prime Mover and this god is far far superior to any Allah and Yahweh.

doubleDx:

Prophecies getting fulfilled =>>>

Isaiah 54:5 (King James Version)

For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

U reading from a Jewish book wat do u expect? The Jews would claim their creation is supreme.

I read a book on Greek Religion and Uranus was the creator of the universe

In Yoruba, Olorun is the creator so how can u prove that the true God is none of these but Yahweh

plaetton:

Classic olodoism.

Can I use my children's story books to show proof that Santa is not only real, but also Omni present, omniscience and omnipotent?

Secondly, if you cannot show or even speculate as to who or what created god, then it is silly to promote the idea that god is the first starter.
Have you ever heard of infinite regression?

sorry, but this thread is for people who put effort in thinking.

People who actually think would realize that ignoring a first starter who must be "God" would have us end up in infinite regression. Figure it out, or move out.

OlaoChi:

U reading from a Jewish book wat do u expect? The Jews would claim their creation is supreme.

I read a book on Greek Religion and Uranus was the creator of the universe

In Yoruba, Olorun is the creator so how can u prove that the true God is none of these but Yahweh

its called language differences. God responds to everyone who calls upon his name in relation to his attributes and reveals himself to those who sincerely seek him. I will open a thread on this later and post the link here. Do good to read the book of genesis and the life of Abraham and isaac and Jacob especially.

cyrexx:

Indeed, this statement is golden and should be engraved on the golden sacred tablets of eternal wisdom.

That's why I worship NOTHING (which is roughly a synonym for mystery)

Cos
According to religious folks...
1. NOTHING is greater than god
2. NOTHING exists before god exists.
3. God is created by NOTHING
4. God's wisdom is inferior to NOTHING
5. NOTHING is beyond the omnipotence and omniscience of god.

Therefore NOTHING is the true god that created the universe, the uncaused Cause and the Prime Mover and this god is far far superior to any Allah and Yahweh.

foolishness beyond measure. This kind of thinking is what makes me afraid for mankind's direction these days. Public ignorance gaining a following and a cheering.

@josh
So, for fear of infinite regression,we must, as a Necessity, create a god.
Is that what you are saying?

Joshthefirst: foolishness beyond measure. This kind of thinking is what makes me afraid for mankind's direction these days. Public ignorance gaining a following and a cheering.

Relax dude,

It's just sarcasm.

But the truth still remains that your God is inferior to, less powerful than, subject to and created by NOTHING!, whom I worship and adore.

Joshthefirst: sorry, but this thread is for people who put effort in thinking.

People who actually think would realize that ignoring a first starter who must be "God" would have us end up in infinite regression. Figure it out, or move out.

its called language differences. God responds to everyone who calls upon his name in relation to his attributes and reveals himself to those who sincerely seek him. I will open a thread on this later and post the link here. Do good to read the book of genesis and the life of Abraham and isaac and Jacob especially.

I won't argue with you

But answer this.... give me one name for the God u believe in