Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong - Religion (7) - Nairaland
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| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Joagbaje(m): 9:43pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
ajayikayod: That's the point you are missing which has been Adresssed in the opening post. The law is good and it's law of God. The moral value there are principles in Gods kindom .But the law CAN NOT MAKE A MAN RIGHTEOYS . I have addressed this over and over. We don't go to the law to make us right . We are justified by faith through grace. But The moral Godly character the law contains are valid . If a christian lack knowledge of scriptures of the Old Testament which are for our learning. In The law we can see principles and values . Christian that lack knowledge of the Old Testament have missed a foundation. Because what the early church had as scriptures was the law and prophets .( Old Testament ) Whoever throw this away will run into the error of lacking the sense of right and wrong. The whole scripture is given for doctrine . The epistles were not scriptures in the early church . The apostles made the Gentiles study the law and prophets . The law is a reference point and a foundation . By this I am not talking down the epistles because the epistle are upgrades . The highest revelation in the epistle is "christ in you and your union and oneness with christ " which the law doesn't contain.. I'm not comparing the law with the epistle .the apostles had good foundational understanding of the principles revealed in the law, I asked a question which I'm yet to have an answer . If a man has carnal knowledge of his own daughter is it a sin? If it is who says so. The foundation is in the law. The only ground paul could condemn the action of a brother who had carnal knowledge of his fathers wife was because it was condemned in the law . Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise  Why would paul quote a law like this for Gentiles who never knew the law ? It's because they were made to study it. Paul still studies the scrolls till he died. So if someone comes to condemn such scriptures it's an error . Knowing the law It's a foundation for doctrine . Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 10:06pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
ajayikayod:The issue i am pointing out to you is moses teachings penned down from genesis to Deuteronomy not some 613laws you guys always flash in our faces here..There are principles to be gleaned from those books. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Zikkyy(m): 10:21pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
Joagbaje: i provided a response to ya question na. But as expected you pretend not to see it |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 10:48pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
[quote author=ajayikayod]The issue i am pointing out to you is moses teachings penned down from genesis to Deuteronomy not some 613laws you guys always flash in our faces here..There are principles to be gleaned from those books. i can see you can't even discern spiritual truths from scriptures. Must you see it written faith in black and white before you believe? Here are some scriptures for you to see and tell me what you think. Most of the OT guys based there Faith on what God has said: NUMBERS 23:19 19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: has he said, and shall he not do it? Or has he spoken and shall he not make it good? I didnt say it, d epistles told us according to 2Corith 3.SO WHAT ARE THE SO CALLED LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE? can you list them let see? 1. Do u think MURDER has d same definition in d mind of Christ as it is in mind of Moses?The same God that gave those laws concerning murder to Moses also emphasized it in the NT. Same with love , justice mercy and faith.. no difference abeg..Jesus magnified the law by explaining its direct link to love;This was even prophesied! "He will exalt the law and make it honorable" (Is 42:21) Jesus didnt modify Moses o, He gav us a new one (Law, commandment, instructions). he fulfilled Moses and set/laid His own for us to follow.This are your vain imaginations. Jesus said, "If you believed Moses, you would believe Me, for he wrote about Me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words? (Joh 5:46-47) I dont understand d above o, but i understand dt a Christian lives by d Law of d Spirit of Life. Can u tell me wat u live by? Law of d Spirit of Life or Law of sin and death?I live by the laws written in the heart of believers by the Holy Spirit. AND I HAVE TO BE FULL OF THE word OF GOD IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND and obey these laws. This covenant in Hebrews is the same new covenant that the Prophet Jeremiah foretold: Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. 33 But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people (Jeremiah 31:31-33). |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 10:49pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
Thr is a singular question i asked thru out my post and seems not to b answered till now. Its a d foundational question which whn we hav answers to, we will kno whr to build on in our work wit God. I ask again. I ll appreciate individual responses. WAT LAW DO U LIVE BY? LAW OF D SPIRIT OF LIFE OR LAW OF SIN AND DEATH (MOSES). |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 11:03pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
Bidam: The issue i am pointing out to you is moses teachings penned down from genesis to Deuteronomy not some 613laws you guys always flash in our faces here..There are principles to be gleaned from those books. i can see you can't even discern spiritual truths from scriptures. Must you see it written faith in black and white before you believe? Here are some scriptures for you to see and tell me what you think. Bro, i didnt write ds, Paul did Ga 3:12 And [the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. If u think d Law of d Spirit is an upgrade of Moses, continue and live by it. If u feel Love, Mercy, Adultery for u as a believer are established by Moses, continue in it. U cant claim to live by d Law of d Spirit written in our heart and still hold dearly to Moses. Paul called such heart, veiled!! it s a shadow of separation from d reality. 1 Like |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 11:50pm On Jan 06, 2014 |
ajayikayod:And that was why i ask you to list the law of the spirit of life here and you can't even say anything on it..except for you to keep hammering on it. Jesus emphasized on the Spirit of the LAW. IT IS JUST A PLAY OF WORDS AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT.. The law of the spirit of life is actually the laws written in the heart of believers by the Holy Spirit.. nothing more.. the last time i checked the scripture, it did not say the law God gave Moses is the law of sin and death. Most theologians interpret it that way but it is wrong. It is the levitical laws that requires the death of an animal to cleanse Man from sin not the moral laws of God which are life changing and eternal and are the embodiments of love. All the whole ten commandments God gave Moses are still copied verbatim by Paul so i don't know where you got your own revelation from that they were abolished. Let's look at them and see. Commandment 1: Paul said, "God, who made the world and everything in it...they should seek the Lord" (Acts 17:24,27). Paul also said, "I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law" (Acts 24:14). "And what agreement has the temple of God have with idols?" (II Cor 6:16). "you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God" (I The 1:9). Commandment 2: "we write to them to abstain from things polluted by idols" (Acts 15:20). "Now while Paul waited for them in Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols...Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said...'God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshipped with men's hands, as though He needed anything'" (Acts 17:16,22,24-25). "Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four footed animals and creeping things" (Rom 1:22-23). "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is...an idolater" (I Cor 5:11). "Neither... idolators...will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor 6:9-10). "And do not become idolaters as were some of them...Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry" (I Cor 10:7,14). "And what agreement has the temple of God have with idols?" (II Cor 6:16). "Now the works of the flesh are evident...idolatry" (Gal 5:19,20). "For this you know that no...idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God" (Eph 5:5). "Therefore put to death...covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col 3:5). "you turned to God from idols" (I The 1:9). Commandment 3: "they are all under sin...Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness" (Rom 3:9,14). "Let all...evil speaking be put away from you" (Eph 4:31). "But now you yourselves are to put off all these:...blasphemy, filthy language out of your mouth" (Col 3:  . "they may learn not to blaspheme" (I Tim 1:20). But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be...blasphemers" (II Tim 3:1,2).Commandment 4: "Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures...And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks" (Acts 17:2;18:4 see also 13:14,27,42,44)."And to whom did He swear they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?" (Heb 3:18). "For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day from all His works'" (Heb 4:4). "There remains therefore a rest (literally sabbatismos, 'Sabbath rest') for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His" (Heb 4:9-10). Commandment 5: "being filled with all unrighteousness...disobediant to parents" (Rom 1:29,30). "Children obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 'Honor your father and mother', which is the first commandment with promise: that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth" (Eph 6:1-3). "the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience" (Col 3:6). "Children obey your parents in all things, for this is well pleasing to the Lord" (Col 3:20). "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be...disobediant to parents" (II Tim 3:1,2). Commandment 6: "being filled with all unrighteousness...murder" (Rom 1:29). "You shall not murder" (Rom 13:9). "Now the works of the flesh are evident...murders" (Gal 5:19,21). "the lawless and insubordinate...murders...manslayers" (I Tim 1:9). Commandment 7: "being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality" (Rom 1:29). "So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress" (Rom 7:3). "You shall not commit adultery" (Rom 13:9). "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral" (I Cor 5:11). "Neither... adulterers, nor homosexuals...will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor 6:9-10)."Nor let us commit sexual immorality as some of them did" (I Cor 10: . "Now the works of the flesh are evident...adultery, fornication" (Gal 5:19). "For this you know that no fornicator...has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God" (Eph 5:5). "the lawless and insubordinate...fornicators...sodomites" (I Tim 1:9,10). "fornicators and adulterers God will judge" (Heb 13:4).Commandment 8: "You shall not steal" (Rom 13:9). "nor thieves...will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor 6:10). "I have been...in perils of robbers" (II Cor 11:25-26). "Let him who stole, steal no longer" (Eph 4:28). Commandment 9: "You shall not bear false witness" (Rom 13:9). "Therefore, putting away lying" (Eph 4:25). "Do not lie to one another" (Col 3:9). "the lawless and insubordinate...liars...perjurers" (I Tim 1:9,10). "Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy" (I Tim 4:1-2). "But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: For men will be...slanderers" (II Tim 3:1,3). "God, who cannot lie" (Ti 1:2). "it is impossible for God to lie" (Heb 6:18). Commandment 10: "being filled with all unrighteousness...covetousness" (Rom 1:29)."You shall not covet" (Rom 7:7). "You shall not covet" (Rom 13:9). "But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is...covetous" (I Cor 5:11). "nor covetous...will inherit the kingdom of God" (I Cor 6:10). "we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted" (I Cor 10:6). "you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh" (Gal 5:16). "For this you know that no fornicator...nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God" (Eph 5:5). "Therefore put to death...covetousness, which is idolatry" (Col 3:5). "For neither at any time did we use flattering words, as you know, nor a cloak for covetousness" (I The 2:5). "Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have" (Heb 13:5). Pheww!! there you have them with their verses, you could do yourself some good and check them up with the mosaic ones you said was abolished by Christ. These were in his epistles to the gentile churches.Since you are a NT believer i decided to reference it so you can see and live by these sets of instructions. These are Your Laws of the Spirit of life Paul was telling you up there. Thank God you have the Holy Spirit, so it would not be a burden to you to live by what Paul says up there.  |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Alwaystrue(f): 12:17am On Jan 07, 2014 |
ajayikayod: James 1:15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death. They are just at different stages of birthing sin. One was at conception which could well be terminated or haboured till the right opportunity to act it out and the other has accomplished the sin. That physical adultery has horrible consequences, he could be caught and killed by the neighbour; his wife may find out and divorce him. The devil is always prowling seeking whom to devour. It seems people forget this part and what better opportunity for the devil than to NAIL a Christian who has birthed the sin to full manifestation, so he cannot rise but for the mercy of God. That is if he even believes he has sinned not those who sin willfully and happily claiming Jesus is their insurance and grace. Anyway, both are sinners in the eyes of God. And that is why the bible says the law could not make anyone righteous because not committing adultery physically but harbouring lust in the heart is still the same in God's books. It is believeing in Christ who brings love that makes one righteous for then we believe His words and have the Spirit to WILL and DO it. ajayikayod:We are talking about the sight of God here not mans laws. God realised the heart of man was desperately wicked and set to do evil. All they needed was opportunity so they were not RIGHTEOUS in God's eyes, only justified by the law in their own sight. Even criminals who have a good lawyer go scot-free by finding loopholes in the law, like 'My client was asked not to lay a finger on the child, so he used a cane to beat the child as such he did no wrong for he did not LAY A FINGER on him literarily'. ajayikayod:Christ is the END of the law FOR righteousness TO THEM that BELIEVE. Complete statement. The law makes no one righteous, its only a mirror showing us our faults and wat to do and not how to do it. Those THAT BELIEVE Jesus that what He did and said is true get the understanding of how He makes them righteous for He purifies us by His words and His blood and makes us a people zealous for His Father by showing us the best way to live without being 'under the law'. How? By walking in the Spirit against which there is no law, for anyone who exhibits the fruits of the Spirit have more or less Upheld the Law by their Faith and won't sin. Paul said so. I also hope you realise there is a popular saying, 'no one is 'ABOVE' the law', we are not be 'UNDER' it even though we 'UPHOLD' it by our faith but we can't be 'ABOVE' it, for walking in the flesh brings it on. ajayikayod:The law show us we are sinners and only believing Christ (including His Words) is what justifies us for then we understand the Spirit of the law. Simple and Short. That is why people asked in the bible 'What do I do to be saved'. A realisation dawned on them, brought about what the mirror of the law threw back at them that their sins were worthy of death! ajayikayod:Bolded: The Law was weak THROUGH the flesh. Flesh cannot please God for it is full of LUST, LUST, LUST and even the good intentions done in the flesh turn out wrong. The 'RIGHTEOUSNESS of the LAW MIGHT be fulfilled in them WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH....but AFTER THE SPIRIT. So is any Christians who walks after the Flesh, FULFILLING the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the LAW? NO! Meaning it is a continuous process...the law of SIN and DEATH is not abolished for those who WALK IN THE FLESH. Simple. That is simply why Christ said He did not come to Abolish the law but fulfil it. The law of sin and death will continue to apply to those who keep sinning. Christ himself fulfilled the law for He was WITHOUT sin till he died on the cross this making Him the first man to overcome sin. As long as we are in this world as the bible says, he that saith he is without sin is a liar and the truth is not in him, we will CONTINUE to need Jesus that the righteousness of the law MIGHT be fulfilled in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. ajayikayod:The law of the Spirit sets us free from the law of sin and death..how? If you do not lust, can you commit adultery? If you do not hate, can you murder? If you do not covet people's goods or envy them will you plot to steal from them? If you love people, will you find it hard to give to them even when they hurt you? At the end of the day has this Law of The Spirit we have by Faith in Jesus, UPHELD THE LAW OR NOT? Has the Christian, led by the law of the Spirit fulfilled the law of not? If the Christian however allows the war in his members to make him lust and commit adultery, has he still fulfilled the law or its righteous requirements? Or does the school master of the law he has broken lead him to Christ for repentance and justification? |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 12:43am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Bidam: And that was why i ask you to list the law of the spirit of life here and you can't even say anything on it..except for you to keep hammering on it. Jesus emphasized on the Spirit of the LAW. IT IS JUST A PLAY OF WORDS AND YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE IT.. The law of the spirit of life is actually the laws written in the heart of believers by the Holy Spirit.. nothing more.. the last time i checked the scripture, it did not say the law God gave Moses is the law of sin and death. Most theologians interpret it that way but it is wrong. Bro. d point u r trying hard to prove doesn't exist. its more lik findin something to say. Paul called it law of sin and death not ppl. he called it weak, condemnation etc. if u after checkin d law of moses side by side wit d words of Jesus, instructions of paul still feels its an upgrade, then enjoy it. Time won't allow to even talk about commandment given on prayers, giving, preaching etc as given by d Spirit. I wonder how moses would hav handled that in his law. Lik I said, if u beleiv u r under and liv by such law, enjoy it wit its veil. I m not here to win discussion but to do my part by showin that d veil has been lifted and we are now in a new Kingdom and a new law. Set at liberty from d old to serve God in newness of life. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by mbaemeka(m): 1:53am On Jan 07, 2014 |
^^ You keep going on about the law of the spirit and the law of sin and death. The weakness of moses law is in making people righteous not in showing them what is right and wrong. I can't belabor this. Alwaystrue has tried to explain to you why he referred to it as the law of the spirit. When the woman caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus did he reject moses law? No. He upheld it to the standard that God originally intended by saying "yes stone her to death, just make sure you are sinless". Do you get it? He was giving full meaning to the law. Joagbaje asked a question. When Paul said "honor your parents. . ." To the gentiles where did he get it from? Of course it was the OT. Thats proof in itself that the moral principles contained therein weren't done away with as you have erroneously suggested. Nobody here is extolling the law as a justifier. We are only showing you that it is important in showing what is right and wrong for the recreated spirit to live by. I may not have known that "having carnal knowledge" of my father's wife was wrong should I not have seen it in the law. Paul said he may not have known about stealing and murder too. Some don't know why Gay marriages are wrong. The law is what we can point them to. It's that simple. Selah! 2 Likes |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Goshen360(m): 2:29am On Jan 07, 2014 |
"I have not come to abolish the law but to fulfill them" confusion. ...coming soon. Jesus broke mosaic law and yet, he didn't sin....coming soon. How come sin is the transgression or breaking of the law, yet, Jesus broke the law but didn't sin. You're staring the eyes of the One who gave the law to moses and you thinking you can use the law he gave against him. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Alwaystrue(f): 6:32am On Jan 07, 2014 |
@bidam, Hmmmm, you really broke own those commandments. The law of the Spirit is simply the law that is written in our hearts...there is a difference between reading somethin on paper and internalising or personalising it. A person who is saved looks at God's laws and says 'for me not to fall into this sin or do right, I have to ensure the root of that sin is dealth with. How will I be able to act right towards my fellow man? By ensuring I harbour the right heart towards. As long as I do good to a person, I must love that person from the heart first even before action.' When Jesus was to be crucified, even the most staunch pharisees and law advocates of Moses could not find any sin to lay to His charge. Nothing. They eneded up saying he was calling Himself the king of the Jews. Even the sabbath that people thought he broke, Jesus asked them that if an animal falls into a well on the sabbath, don't they fetch it out, so of how much value is a man who is hungry or a person that needs to be set free from the clutches of bondage...they had no answer and so he healed the person and he allowed his disciples pluck the corn to stem their hunger. Simple ssath was made for man and not the other way. They could not find fault in that. Jesus came to fulfill and give full expression of love as the fulfilment of the law. He personalised it and gave it the TRUTH meaning. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 6:40am On Jan 07, 2014 |
mba emeka: ^^ You keep going on about the law of the spirit and the law of sin and death. The weakness of moses law is in making people righteous not in showing them what is right and wrong. I can't belabor this. Alwaystrue has tried to explain to you why he referred to it as the law of the spirit. When the woman caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus did he reject moses law? No. He upheld it to the standard that God originally intended by saying "yes stone her to death, just make sure you are sinless". Do you get it? He was giving full meaning to the law.God bless you for this post. This is what i was trying to show my brother here o... |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Gombs(m): 6:57am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Alwaystrue: @bidam, #Tuale Wonderful piece... |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 6:59am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Alwaystrue: @bidam,Thank you sis.. The way and manner these guys are trying to lay a charge against me that i am justifying the mosaic law as a way of righteousness with God is really disheartening. There is no where my post says that. The Christian Faith in it self is EVEN A LAW.The apostle Paul said, "Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? No: but by the law of faith." (Romans 3:27). When we look at natural or scientific laws, like the law of gravity, or the law of aerodynamics, or Newton's laws of motion, they are laws that work consistently every time without fail (assuming nothing supernatural intervenes). Faith also is a law which when operated properly works every time without fail. By using the law of faith we can obtain any of the promises of God. So we walk by faith depending on the righteousness of God inputed in our DNA that God is at work in us both to will and to do of his good pleasure..TO SAY the bible did not differentiate right and wrong for us as a standard for perfection is a big lie from hell. We do not walk circumspectly as fools here but as wise people and the bible standards is our manual for life. We know we have human limitations and we are conscious of it.. Thank God for the gift of the Holy Spirit. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Gombs(m): 6:59am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Bidam: God bless you for this post. This is what i was trying to show my brother here o... That's what the OP has been screaming since page 1... that's what we all in effect are trying to project... but these folks don't wanna agree, just because it would put a big question mark on their stance with regards tithing. Funny fellas  |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 7:17am On Jan 07, 2014 |
ajayikayod:I gave you scripitural verses on God's commandments quoted by Paul to the gentile churches..Go through them and see if it is not copied from the old agreement. What was obsolete was the old agreement not some of the laws in it. Paul called it law of sin and death not ppl. he called it weak, condemnation etc.Alwaystrue has explained that to you..Go through her post with a heart to learn..not with a heart to argue. if u after checkin d law of moses side by side wit d words of Jesus, instructions of paul still feels its an upgrade, then enjoy it. Time won't allow to even talk about commandment given on prayers, giving, preaching etc as given by d Spirit. I wonder how moses would hav handled that in his law.Are you saying the writings of Moses is not from God  prayers, giving etc are still found in the OT,THERE ARE PRINCIPLES TO BE GLEAN FROM THEM. I have the Holy Spirit to access mysteries from the OT. The veil has been torn by the death of Christ. i can function right now as a prophet and priest to know what God is saying presently when i study the OT. I am not looking at the torah with a veil but with the eyes of the Spirit the way Jesus looked at it when He came down from heaven.Lik I said, if u beleiv u r under and liv by such law, enjoy it wit its veil. I m not here to win discussion but to do my part by showin that d veil has been lifted and we are now in a new Kingdom and a new law. Set at liberty from d old to serve God in newness of life.You are welcome to your opinions. I live out the word of God from Genesis to revelations.. I don't live on ONLY some books. I will be spiritually starved to death. (Numbers 23:19) "God is not a man that he should lie;" (Titus 1:2) "God ... cannot lie," |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 8:14am On Jan 07, 2014 |
ajayikayod: Paul wrote, "Let love be without hypocrisy. Abhor what is evil" (Romans 12:9). "Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. For the commandments, 'You shall not commit adultery', 'You shall not steal', 'You shall not bear false witness', 'You shall not covet', and if there is any other commandment, all are summed up in this saying, namely, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'. Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law" (Romans 13:8-10). "Abstain from every form of evil" (I Thessalonians 5:22). The point of the law, as Paul writes above is love! James wrote: Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members? You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war (James 4:1-2). James even emphasized that you must keep all of the commandments to show love: If you really fulfill the royal law according to scripture, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself,' you do well; but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, 'Do not commit adultery,' also said, 'Do not murder'. Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law (James 2:8-11). Did you know that Paul also wrote the following? Now the purpose of the commandment is love...(1 Timothy 1:5) John wrote, Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness (1 John 3:4). Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil...In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother (1 John 3:7,8,10). What does the Bible teach is righteousness? For all Your commandments are righteousness (Psalms 119:172). Peter added, by quoting the 34th Psalm, For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, His ears are open to their prayers; But the face of the LORD is against those that do evil (I Peter 3:12). Peter contrasted the righteous (those who keep the commandments) with the evil (those that do not). John also wrote, By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome (1 John 5:2-3). Now let's go to the end of the Bible: 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie (Revelation 22:14-15). So you can see here that i don't just rely on Pauline epistles to know right and wrong. I rely on the whole counsel of God. 1 Like |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 8:26am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Gombs:Gosh... is the chief progenitor of them na.. You can see the lies he reeled against you and Jo..instead of him to apologize when he was shown his errors,he refused and was adamantly unrepentant about it. It goes to show what's motivating him. And i don't agree it is the Holy Spirit. And he calls himself a ( I wonder whether drumma agrees with this view.  )I am praying for him.He is still a brother. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Alwaystrue(f): 8:40am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Bidam: Galatians 3:12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, "It is through obeying the law that a person has life." A person does not have life by obeying the law, He has LIFE by obeying Jesus and the Words He spoke. It is so simple to understand. 'Do not commit adultery' is the LAW; "Do not lust" as Jesus said is the LIFE! The bible says out of the heart are the issues of life. Life starts from the heart not from actions or works and it is this life that overflows to give us the right actions. There is a cycle of sin that James noted which i posted here: James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death Jesus words tell us that the heart is where sin is to be nipped. The law of Moses only holds a person responsible for his actions because taht is what man sees. God has already seen the heart and can hold man responsible from that point. The cycle of sin shows there is a conception, pregnancy and birth. Bidam:Thanks. ALL scripture is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction IN RIGHTEOUSNESS. A Christian whose heart is led by the Spirit thus exibiting the fruits of love, joy, peace, patience, self control and the likes cannot BREAK any law of SIN and DEATH like Jesus did. That is simply what it means to fulfill the law when we walk by the Spirit but as long as sin abounds, it births death. Romans 7:25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin Why is Paul serving 2 laws here? I thought some claim the law of sin and death is abolished? For people who have refused to hear Jesus who said He did not come to abolish the law but FULFILL it...that is GIVE IT TRUTH MEANING, should see Paul saying that inner man serves the law of God, ofcourse as long as He walks in the Spirit but HIS FLESH SERVES THE LAW OF SIN as long as He carries out the Sin and brings it to bear. The law of sin and death applies to him if he brings forth the sin but thanks to Jesus Christ who gives us the boldness to come before the THRONE OF GRACE for MERCY and HELP. People think grace ends at Mercy so keep sinning and saying all they need to do is ask for mercy afterall. That is the lop-sided approach many grace teachers on this forum take. But it continues to MEAN HELP for flesh cannot do it, only Christ can IF WE YIELD TO HIM. That is why I keep saying our need for JESUS is constant for we cannot do it on our own. The battle in our mind is tough! All manner of evil darts are thrown by the enemy and we need to keep bearing up our shield of faith in Jesus to OVERCOME and not let it overcome us. We need to keep allowing Christ's words (guided by the Holy Spirit) to dwell in us richly so we can OVERCOME sin. I love the part you said we view the word of God with unveiled eyes through Jesus. That is how we understand that adultery is actually lust, murder is actually hatred, rebellion is as the sin of withcraft (yeah this was shown in the OT but that is the Spirit meaning). That is the veil removed in Jesus by His very own words! @Gombs, Thanks. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Zikkyy(m): 8:57am On Jan 07, 2014 |
mba emeka: This is the problem. the 'recreated spirit' does not live by the law or whatever the law is showing. Alwaystrue provided a better explanation below. focus on the highlighted bit.... Alwaystrue: |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Zikkyy(m): 9:00am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Bidam: You are still writing 'out of point' i read Alwaystrue attempting to guide you in the right direction without making it so obvious, but you don't see it. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Alwaystrue(f): 9:10am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Zikkyy:My new year gift to you...you read wrong! I was simply given explanation to what He said. Paul said there is a law of Faith which is also same as the law of the Spirit. So Bidam;'s quote of Paul is in order. Or are you afraid to face and do justice to the word Paul spoke here? Why are you so afraid of God's law? Do you think Faith is lawless? These are questions you should ruminate and answer to yourself though. 1 Like |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 9:17am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Zikkyy:How is it out of point..? |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 9:18am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Alwaystrue:Gbam!!! Hope you have eyes now zikkyy... |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Zikkyy(m): 9:24am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Alwaystrue: my sister, i don't read wrong. i know what am talking about  .....and BTW saying somebody is writing out of point does not translate to saying the point being made is true or false; it means the point is not properly or not even addressing the topic.Alwaystrue: i never told anyone i have problem with paul. Alwaystrue: Again, who told you am afraid of any law? is my post suggesting some fear of the law? my sister, i strongly believe you are the one reading wrong o. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Zikkyy(m): 9:33am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Bidam: Okay. i have to say i had difficulty reconciling the the post below with the topic. the post is not even a defence for the charges against you (the highlighted bit) i don't see how newton's law or law of aerodynamics prove you are not justifying the mosaic law as a way of righteousness with God Bidam: |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 10:52am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Zikkyy:Never mind..Those who read my post understand it and are not complaining. You can see i paragraphed it. Why do we use paragraphs in sentences? My first paragraphed was to reiterate and defend my previous post and positions in this thread. The second paragraph is another point i am making that Faith in itself is a law. It is our nature, just like other natural laws i showed as examples. It comes automatically via new birth. We do not do what we do because it is written only in God's law. We do it because it is the Spirit of God in us that says we should do it and the Word of God validates this. God does not do anything without his word. The word and the Spirit go together. And that is why i keep on telling you that Christians tithe by Faith and not because the law says so. The law is there to back up our Faith actions. The Word of God is actually the law written in the hearts of believers. I will keep saying this till it sinks in. The Holy Spirit is the one telling me to do the works of righteousness. |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 11:14am On Jan 07, 2014 |
When a minister says we re no longer under d law, d law brethren always come wit a reaction: are u saying we should continue sinning, should we murder, steal etc. My little survey about the law brethren in d past showed clearly dt they are d folks who actually preach to men and encourage men to transgress God's commandments. A man dt doesnt see d different btw God's instructions in d Law of d Spirit and Law of Moses will continually elevate d latter. Some of them even go ahead to say it just a modification, yet in thr life, teaching and living, Moses remains thr foundational principles for knowing wat to do right and wat is wrong. We see them elevate robbery above lying, fornication above malice etc. Wat a veil dt fills d freed. It a pity dt many after claimin to hav read d scriptures for ages, are yet to see clearly d abolish-ment of Moses. They claim same meaning to Christ words and Moses commandments. A man dt see words like Evil in NT and see/read same meaning as mentioned in Moses to him is yet to see d tru Light. It will b hard 4such to clearly see dt: Wat Epistles/Jesus called evil is not d same as wat Moses known as evil. Wat Epistles/Jesus called love is not d same as wat Moses known as love. Wat Epistles/Jesus called justice is not d same as wat Moses known as justice. Wat Epistles/Jesus called enemy is not d same as wat Moses known as enemy. Epistles/Jesus called worship is not d same as wat Moses known as worship. On and on. D Moses brethren seem just too lazy to hold to Christ instructions or see it as commandments but rather as advice. A fellow asked, so whr is d Law of d Spirit written, another said, d diff is dt Moses is now written in our heart is d Law of d Spirit. I feel sad lots of time whn we read and cant still see wat was written boldly, repeatedly, some times exhaustively. The challenge is most folks want to see d word Law b4 they kno its d Law, instructions and commandments from God. A man dt lives by and in d spirit should kno dt d Gospels and Epistles contain far more instructions/commandments from d Spirit than all Moses penned down. But its a pity dt whn we hav not seen it as a type in Moses we never see it as God's commandments by d Spirit. Law of d Spirit of Life D Law of d Spirit, an absolute change of Moses wasnt just written in our heart, we are given/tot/inform about it thru out d Epistles. When Jesus gave commandment in Mark 16:15 vs 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. Law brethren never kno dts d Spirit given God's commandment to us, it seems lik advice dts why most dont even mention it on d altar, they set department for it. Many will tell u i hav never stole b4 since i gav my life to Christ, yet he has never seen his abrupt disobedient to not preaching d gospel as an eternal sin. (He evelates Moses' than Christ's) Jesus called his words commandments John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. Paul used a very succint word to lay out dt all instructions he gav to d church ar God's commandments and not advice (He made it clear whn ever he s using his own intellect by God's approval to instruct, as shown in 1 Corith 7:6,25) 6 But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment. 25 Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful. Even John in epistles of John called his word commandments. Until d instructions in NT comes alive in ur heart as d commandments, outcry, desires, statutes and of God to u and not an advice, u r still veiled. Continue below>>>> |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 11:16am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Continuation from above ^^^^ D Spirit of Life commanded us in d gospel/epistles all of God's commandments for a new creation. Do u see words of Paul whn u read commandments in NT or words of God? Or do they actually seems lik commandments to u, since thr is no thou shall, thou shall? Lets look at some. Matt 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Matt 6: 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matt 6: 25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. Rom 12: 2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. Rom 12: 11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; Rom 12: 14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rom 12: 17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. Rom 13: 1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 1 Corith 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. 1 Corith 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order. 2 Corith 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. Gal 6: 8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. Ephe 4: 30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephe 5: 18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Ephe 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; Ephe 6: 18 Praying always wit all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watchin thereunto with all perseverance and supplication 4all saints; Phil 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord alway: and again I say, Rejoice. Col4: 2 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; 1 Thess 5: 17 Pray without ceasing. James 1: 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. 1 Pet 3: 1 Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives. Time wont allow to exhaust d Law of Life as given in d scriptures to d believers. If all ds doesn't seem lik God's commandments to u, then u r in d flesh serving Moses. As Moses received instructions of sin and death from God to Isrealites, d Apostles hav been given d instructions of life to us by His Spirit, Christ laying d foundation. Wat a believer would i hav been, if Moses is my foundation of knowing God's mind. I would hav lust and still believ i didnt fornicate, i would hav hate and still believ i v not kill, i would hav hate, persecute my enemy and still believ i m in God, infact i could giv under compulsion and think God is happy. But thanks b to God for d Spirit of Life, who gav us His New commandments, not as d old which was weak (demandin without assisting) but dt which gives life, ability, strength to do Christ bidding. Let us allow d writings of d Spirit come alive in our heart as seen in d epistles, laying down d old vessels and putting on d life of d Spirit. On d last day, no Christian will b judged/examined according to Moses but according to wat d Spirit gav us (Christ and His Words). |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by ajayikayod: 11:27am On Jan 07, 2014 |
Gombs: Why do u always refer to tithe on all issues, is dt ur motive for most discussions or d reason why some hav to defend d Moses at all cost? |
| Re: Without The Law There's No Foundation Of Rightness Or Wrong by Nobody: 12:36pm On Jan 07, 2014 |
@joe Does sarah(grace) need hagah(law) to take care of isaac(children of promise)? are you a child of promise? yes... do you need hagah to take care of you instead of your mother (sarah)? |
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