@ Ajayikayod..Could you please answer the question the OP posed from the beginning of the thread about inbreeding. Thanks. It will go a long way to help us here. No where was it written in new testament teachings that inbreeding and the likes of it is wrong. Like Goshen said premarital sex between two consenting adults is not even wrong and just like you he quotes what you are quoting here to justify his stance. You should stick to the Op topic abeg..Your eisegesis is sickening..We don tire to dey hear the same thing over and over again.

We have said times without number that there are principles gleaned from OT teachings.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 (Paul)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ACTS 1:16 (Peter)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spoke before concerning Judas, who was guide to those who took Jesus

2 PETER 1:21 (Peter)
21 For prophecy did not come in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


So Moses,Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, etc,.. ALL spoke by the Same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New.

@ Ajayikayod..Could you please answer the question the OP posed from the beginning of the thread about inbreeding. Thanks. It will go a long way to help us here. No where was it written in new testament teachings that inbreeding and the likes of it is wrong. Like Goshen said premarital sex between two consenting adults is not even wrong and just like you he quotes what you are quoting here to justify his stance. You should stick to the Op topic abeg..Your eisegesis is sickening..We don tire to dey hear the same thing over and over again.

We have said times without number that there are principles gleaned from OT teachings.

2 TIMOTHY 3:16 (Paul)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

ACTS 1:16 (Peter)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit by the mouth of David spoke before concerning Judas, who was guide to those who took Jesus

2 PETER 1:21 (Peter)
21 For prophecy did not come in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.


So Moses,Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, etc,.. ALL spoke by the Same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New.

Bidam:
Never mind..Those who read my post understand it and are not complaining. You can see i paragraphed it. Why do we use paragraphs in sentences? My first paragraphed was to reiterate and defend my previous post and positions in this thread.
The second paragraph is another point i am making that Faith in itself is a law. It is our nature, just like other natural laws i showed as examples. It comes automatically via new birth. We do not do what we do because it is written only in God's law. We do it because it is the Spirit of God in us that says we should do it and the Word of God validates this. God does not do anything without his word. The word and the Spirit go together.

if i talk now, you will accuse me of ridiculing ya posts, but the truth of the matter is that i don't understand what you are saying up there

Bidam:
And that is why i keep on telling you that Christians tithe by Faith and not because the law says so.

You are deceiving ya self not me. The Christian tithers i know tithe because the law says so

Bidam:
The law is there to back up our Faith actions.

you use the law to back up ya faith which law BTW

Bidam:
I will keep saying this till it sinks in. The Holy Spirit is the one telling me to do the works of righteousness.

you can continue to tell yaself that, but we know the truth

ajayikayod:
Why do u always refer to tithe on all issues, is dt ur motive for most discussions or d reason why some hav to defend d Moses at all cost?

tithe is one if not the only reason for holding on to the mosaic law.

Zikkyy:

if i talk now, you will accuse me of ridiculing ya posts, but the truth of the matter is that i don't understand what you are saying up there

Ever learning and never being able to come to the knowledge of Christ.Accept my sayings as a parable toh.

You are deceiving ya self not me. The Christian tithers i know tithe because the law says so

May be you are the one deceiving yasef here.Accept the word of God as it is,Don't run away or shy from it.

you use the law to back up ya faith which law BTW

The word of God.

you can continue to tell yaself that, but we know the truth

Which truth the one that encourages the lawlessness of goshen and his likes? We saw where they ended up at the end of the day. How their conscience has become dead.Even lying doesn't prick them anymore.

ajayikayod:
Wat a believer would i hav been, if Moses is my foundation of knowing God's mind. I would hav lust and still believ i didnt fornicate, i would hav hate and still believ i v not kill, i would hav hate, persecute my enemy and still believ i m in God, infact i could giv under compulsion and think God is happy.

maybe that's the reason why some 'Christians' cheat in business. because there is no law that says "thou shall not cheat when conducting business transactions"

Joagbaje, please note

I'm enjoying this Thread....I'm sure learning alot...

@alwaystrue
@bidam
@mbaemeka

God go bless una plentifully

Bidam:
@ Ajayikayod..Could you please answer the question the OP posed from the beginning of the thread about inbreeding. Thanks. It will go a long way to help us here.

I don answer this question before na. you people pretend not to see it. Na you want Ajayikayod to waste his time responding to it

anyway, i have one question for you; according to the law of moses, is it a sin for a Christian to marry more than one wife?

Bidam:
No where was it written in new testament teachings that inbreeding and the likes of it is wrong.

That's the problem with you lovers of the law, always looking for written documentation to prove that an action is either sin or not. So if it is not written, it cannot be sin abi?

Bidam:
So Moses,Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, etc,.. ALL spoke by the Same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New.

so burnt offering is still relevant?

Bidam:
Accept the word of God as it is,Don't run away or shy from it.

1. what exactly is this word of God you want me to accept?
2. by acceptance, are you saying i implement i.e put into practice this word of God or are you saying i should accept as true (believe)?

Everything, and I mean EVERYTHING a Christian needs IS IN CHRIST, NOT in mosaic law nor in moses ....also coming soon.

hisblud: @joe

Does sarah(grace) need hagah(law) to take care of isaac(children of promise)?

are you a child of promise? yes... do you need hagah to take care of you instead of your mother (sarah)?

Zikkyy:

I don answer this question before na. you people pretend not to see it. Na you want Ajayikayod to waste his time responding to it

I no see am.. There is no harm in showing me/us again na.

anyway, i have one question for you; according to the law of moses, is it a sin for a Christian to marry more than one wife?

So is the account in genesis not written by Moses? Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Three people cannot become one flesh na..ONLY TWO.

The same Holy Spirit that inspired Moses to pen this down inspired others too.
Jesus (in Matthew) and Paul (in Eph) repeat this idea:

Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

That's the problem with you lovers of the law,

Point of correction ayam a God lover. I love Him BY OBEYING HIS commandments WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BURDENSOME.

always looking for written documentation to prove that an action is either sin or not. So if it is not written, it cannot be sin abi?

You may list for us the remaining sins not written in the bible na..LETS SEE.

Zikkyy:

so burnt offering is still relevant?

yes it is( in principle so to speak) Let's see what Paul penned down by the help of the Holy GHOST.

Philippians 4:18
Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, [size=16pt]a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.[/size]


"A sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice" is Old Testament language taken from the Levitical offerings (Ex 29:18; Ezek 10:41; Gen 8:21; Lev 1:9,13,17; 2:12).. Their gift smells sweet to God. It has the fragrance of perfume to God. This is an offering that pleases God.

So you can see how you are shooting yourself in the foot here.

Bidam: yes it is( in principle so to speak) Let's see what Paul penned down by the help of the Holy GHOST.

Philippians 4:18
Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, [size=16pt]a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.[/size]


"A sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice" is Old Testament language taken from the Levitical offerings (Ex 29:18; Ezek 10:41; Gen 8:21; Lev 1:9,13,17; 2:12).. Their gift smells sweet to God. It has the fragrance of perfume to God. This is an offering that pleases God.

So you can see how you are shooting yourself in the foot here.

Bidam:
So is the account in genesis not written by Moses? Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

So there is no law that says "thou shall not have more than one wife" or even say "thou shall not have more than one wife at any point in time" since the law allowed for divorce and joagbaje says the law is the foundation of rightness or wrong.

Bidam:
So is the account in genesis not written by Moses? Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

This is ya interpretation, not a law.

Bidam:
Three people cannot become one flesh na..ONLY TWO.

three people cannot become one flesh, but nothing stop the man from becoming one flesh with different women. e.g. Bidam can become one flesh with Anita, then marry Bimbe and also become one flesh with her, then collect Ngozi and join to become one flesh. abi? after all some of God's people in the OT had plenty wives which they cleaved to (individually) to become one flesh. There was no law that says they could only have one.

Bidam:
Jesus (in Matthew) and Paul (in Eph) repeat this idea:
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh? Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Eph 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

Are you now relying on Jesus & Paul for foundational knowledge what happened to the law?

Bidam:
Point of correction ayam a God lover. I love Him BY OBEYING HIS commandments WHICH ARE NOT EVEN BURDENSOME.

Being a God lover did not stop you from being a lover of the mosaic law na

Bidam:
yes it is( in principle so to speak)

In principle ke? let's take another look at ya post.....

Bidam:
So Moses,Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, etc,.. ALL spoke by the Same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New.

you forgot to add "in principle" i don add am on ya behalf (see below), no need to thank me. what are friends for....

Bidam:
So Moses,Jesus, Paul, Peter, John, etc,.. ALL spoke by the Same Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New in principle.

Bidam:
yes it is( in principle so to speak) Let's see what Paul penned down by the help of the Holy GHOST.

Philippians 4:18
Indeed I have all and abound. I am full, having received from Epaphroditus the things sent from you, [size=16pt]a sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice, well pleasing to God.[/size]


"A sweet-smelling aroma, an acceptable sacrifice" is Old Testament language taken from the Levitical offerings (Ex 29:18; Ezek 10:41; Gen 8:21; Lev 1:9,13,17; 2:12).. Their gift smells sweet to God. It has the fragrance of perfume to God. This is an offering that pleases God.

So you can see how you are shooting yourself in the foot here.

I know of the general burnt offering, the sin offering and trespass offering. Burnt offering in the OT is usually for atonement. i also know burnt offering was offered for lepers, men and women with discharge, for purification of priests e.t.c so which principle is being addressed by the gift given to Paul?

Zikkyy:

So there is no law that says "thou shall not have more than one wife" or even say "thou shall not have more than one wife at any point in time" since the law allowed for divorce and joagbaje says the law is the foundation of rightness or wrong.



This is ya interpretation, not a law.



three people cannot become one flesh, but nothing stop the man from becoming one flesh with different women. e.g. Bidam can become one flesh with Anita, then marry Bimbe and also become one flesh with her, then collect Ngozi and join to become one flesh. abi? after all some of God's people in the OT had plenty wives which they cleaved to (individually) to become one flesh. There was no law that says they could only have one.



Are you now relying on Jesus & Paul for foundational knowledge what happened to the law?



Being a God lover did not stop you from being a lover of the mosaic law na

It doesn't have to be thou shall not before you know it is a law na.. I can reason with you why you see it that way since you read your bible like a newspaper and nay where you see thou shall not or law you assume it is one. I already told you that the whole counsel of God is a law to a believer as far as it is in genesis or revelation, it doesn't matter.

We can see Apostle Paul below quoting Genesis account as a LAW.

1 Corinthians 14:34.

Amplified Bible (AMP)

34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says.

This was taken from Gen 3:16 account.

Genesis 3:16

Amplified Bible (AMP)

16 To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and craving will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.

Zikkyy:

In principle ke? let's take another look at ya post.....



you forgot to add "in principle" i don add am on ya behalf (see below), no need to thank me. what are friends for....

The Op has made it clear from the beginning.that we get principles from the OT. Let me quote him again since you have a blind and contentious spirit.

Joagbaje: I'm amazed at the extreme we go in the condemnation of The law.the law is a foundation . [size=16pt]The law contains principles of God [/size]. You can't throw the law away. It's a foundation .

Zikkyy:

I know of the general burnt offering, the sin offering and trespass offering. Burnt offering in the OT is usually for atonement. i also know burnt offering was offered for lepers, men and women with discharge, for purification of priests e.t.c so which principle is being addressed by the gift given to Paul?

Since your stupidity is glaring for all to see i will let this pass. You can thank me later.

ajayikayod: I trust God dt whr confusion abounds on NL, Light and direction is much more super aboundin. Bringin clarity to d simple, pullin down every stronghold of religion and establishing right doctrines, teachings, prophecies, insights and revelations not according to d flesh or our human wisdom but dt whic d Spirit breath. Dt His words, instructions, commandments as founded by Christ and confirmed in d epistles may hav full and free expression/course in ds community and our lifes forever.

i SAY A BIG AMEN to this prayer sir. tHANKS.

Bidam:
We can see Apostle Paul below quoting Genesis account as a LAW.
1 Corinthians 14:34.
Amplified Bible (AMP)
34 The women should keep quiet in the churches, for they are not authorized to speak, but should take a secondary and subordinate place, just as the Law also says.
This was taken from Gen 3:16 account.
Genesis 3:16
Amplified Bible (AMP)
16 To the woman He said, I will greatly multiply your grief and your suffering in pregnancy and the pangs of childbearing; with spasms of distress you will bring forth children. Yet your desire and craving will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.

How did you know Paul's statement was taken from Gen 3:16 account? when Paul stated something different in 1 Timothy 2.....

1 Timothy 2:12-14 (NIV)
12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet. 13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14 And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner.

James 4:11-12 ESV

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, [size=16pt]speaks evil against the law and judges the law. [/size] But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?


Zikky, please explain the above verse for me... what Law was James talking about?

Bidam:
I already told you that the whole counsel of God is a law to a believer as far as it is in genesis or revelation, it doesn't matter.

i need to get one thing clear here; are you saying the whole of bible is the foundation of rightness or wrong? because that's not what joagbaje is saying.

Bidam: The Op has made it clear from the beginning.that we get principles from the OT. Let me quote him again since you have a blind and contentious spirit.

Mr. Bidam, you cannot be shifting the goal post. we are no longer discussing the OP, we are discussing your comment that "The Holy Spirit does not contradict. What He said in the Old is still relevant in the New"

Besides we can no longer be discussing the OP if you rely on the bible (from genesis to revelation) for foundational knowledge. Joagbaje says we rely on the law for foundational knowledge. and by law, he was not referring to the bible. we can read this from the OP.....He stated that he was "amazed at the extreme we go in the condemnation of The law" and added this....."The only issue with the law now is that a man cannot recieve justification by the law". nobody condemn scriptures, so joagbaje must have been referring to specific text in the OT. probably the 10 commandments.

Bidam: Since your stupidity is glaring for all to see i will let this pass. You can thank me later.

Okay.

Gombs: James 4:11-12 ESV

Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, [size=16pt]speaks evil against the law and judges the law. [/size] But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?


Zikky, please explain the above verse for me... what Law was James talking about?

Why are you asking me to explain?

Zikkyy:

Why are you asking me to explain?

If u can't explain, simply say so

See the NLT version of it

NLT:Don’t speak evil against each other, dear brothers and sisters. If you criticize and judge each other, then you are criticizing and judging God’s law. [size=16pt] But your job is to obey the law, not to judge whether it applies to you. [/size]

NLT:God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. So what right do you have to judge your neighbor?

nlMediator:

I think both of you are talking past each other. The Bible contains laws in the OT and these laws can be categorized into moral, civil, ceremonial, etc. The Bible does not have to say that for anybody to know it. It's like somebody saying that Noah's ark contained carnivores, herbivores and omnivores and you're asking for where the Bible says that. All you need are the characteristics of each category of animals and compare them to the animals in the ark. Or it is like taking all the laws passed by the National Assembly on such things as allowing people to vote at Age 16, protecting the elderly from scammers, granting protections to the disabled, etc. Anybody with knowledge of the legal system can break these laws into such headings as Constitutional Law, Elder Law, Disability Law, Civil Rights, Criminal Law, etc. Because the legislature did not describe it as such does not mean we cannot. Unless, you're suggesting that al the laws in the OT are of the same character and have no distinguishing characteristics.

I think the larger point you're trying to make is that all the laws have been abolished regardless of whether they are ceremonial, civil, etc. But that's different from saying there were no distinctions in the laws.

I also think the point that the NT contains sufficient rules for the believer is a very solid point. That's what keeps on confusing me about this Law-Grace argument. The "new" teachers of grace spend their valuable time demonizing "the law" but when you ask them if they think rape, murder, stealing are wrong, they'd say yes. And then they launch into some mumbo jumbo about how people sin because of the law. Ok, so those that preach grace without law no longer sin? Somehow, their congregations are better behaved? Of course, anybody with a modicum of intellect knows that that's not even remotely true.

The OP struck the right balance, in my opinion, about Law and Grace. The law is not for the christian, as written. However, the principles behind some of the laws are still valid. That's why many of them are repeated in the NT. And that's why those that claim to preach grace-only never come out to endorse the moral activities, for example, that the law condemns. At the end of the day, much of this is much ado about nothing. Nobody can be justified by the law. And nobody can live a successful christian life who wallows in those activities called sinful. 1 Pet. 2:11.

hehehe, where was me? Nice thread.

Just read page 1 and this one. Gosh is still on empty boasts this new year, na wa oh. Bidam my bro, easy on the language oh, please.

Joagbaje:

The scripture the early church had was the Old Testament .

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

The only issue is that a man is no longer justified by works . The new was based on the old . But in the Old Testament time they sought justification by them but for us we are doing the word . Adultery is still adultery , murder is still murder.

I will ask a question : if a father would have sex with his own daughter by her consent is it a sin ?

If an elder would brother have sex with his sister by consent is it a sin?

And pls don't say it doesn't happen becsuse I counsel many people. And some don't even know it's wrong. Some close relative have married one another . Some families are having issues over such marriages . Until you show them from scriptures . And they go . " is it in the bible? but I love her , what do I do. ?

Why would Paul and other apostle be instructing early church on morality when they have Holy Spirit in them to lead them into all truth .

Romans 7:7
Well then, am I suggesting that the law of God is sinful? Of course not! In fact, it was the law that showed me my sin. I would never have known that coveting is wrong if the law had not said, “You must not covet.”

The moral instructions of the apostles were based on the law. They can't justify or make or righteous before God. We have the nature of God and the ability to do right but we must learn the right and wrong to develop our senses. If not conscience can be defiled and hardened. And we may not know.

Hebrews 3:13
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

Take for example Christians insulting , harassing , lying and abusing others on this forum , how come the Holy Spirit hadn't told them this is evil . We can't blame our wrongs on the holly spirit becsuse. " HE HASNT TOLD ME " it's for us to study and develop the character of God. Our knowledge and development is personal responsibility regardless of our titles .

1 Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:

What word , remember the scripture they had was Old Testament . Paul asked for his scrolls he told Timothy to study. ( Old Testament )

The only condemnation of the law is that it lack the power to justification because christ had done that for us. But the moral principle of the law are for learning .

Romans 15:4
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

Fire. God bless you.