barackodam: Salam Alaykum, I will like to clear the misconception of most non-muslims who says we muslims worship the Black stone.

A composed dialogue between a muslim and a non muslim:


Non Muslim: How do you define idol worship?
Muslim: In my opinion IDOL WORSHIP IS IDLE
WORSHIP! What I mean is that it is useless, meaning
less worship. How can you beg anything from something that is
carved by yourself?

Non-Muslim: What about the stone in Ka'abah?
Muslim: We do not worship the stone in the Ka'abah at all.

Non-Muslim: Do you not kiss it?
Muslim: Kissing something is not worshpping that thing. If you kiss a handkercheif in the memory of a dear one, is that worshipping?

Non-Muslim: What then is the significance of the
stone in Ka'abah?
Muslim: The Holy Prophet Muhammad(SAW) has
made the significance known to us. The fact is that the expression of love in memory of a dear one is not worshipping. It happens in everyday life and is part of the human psyche. If one loves and kisses something or someone in the memory of that which one reveres and loves, it is only an expression of that
reverance. The significance of the stone in Ka'aba can be
explained in similar terms. According to the Prophet (SAW) when the first house of Allah was about to be built, Allah showered stones from the heavens to provide building material for that house. We now understand the meaning of that more fully. It must
have been a meteoric shower. Meteors must have rained on that particular area under the command of Allah. The stones that came from heaven were use to build the very first house of worship of Allah. According to Prophet Muhammad (SAW) ,the black stone in the Ka'abah is one of the remenants of the stone that were showered from heaven. It is because of the very historic nature of this event and in the memory of that event, we kiss this particular stone as a blessed thing--but we treat it as a stone
and there is nothing wrong with that. We do not beg anything of it.

Non-Muslim: onemore thing, why do you face it
while praying if you claim that you do not worship
the stone?
Muslim :Allah says "Verily, We have seen the turning
of your(Muhammad(saw) face towards heaven.
Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer
direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Haram(at Makkah). And wheresoever you people are, turn your faces in hat direction...."Q2:V144
Allah commands we muslims to face that
direction. Who are we not to obey? We worship Allah (SWT) alone and ascribe no partners with Him.


Non Muslim: (Silent...walksAway)....

cleanvessel:

You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven.

What is your source?

Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?

Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba?

cleanvessel: Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

OJODEL10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. note; moon worship is predominant in arab region, in fact the arab tribe that muhammed belong worship the moon-god, they kiss the kaaba, and moved round it before the birth of muhammed and is father's father as a act of worship and allah is one of the god worship in the kaaba. why will allah continue to be worship in a shrine dedicated to gods?

barackodam:


may i clear u somethin here, the word "ALLAH" is just but an arabic word meanin God, it was derived from the word "ilah" wch nowadays is mostly used for lesser god, same way in Greek, Jehovah means God

ojodelo10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?.

barackodam:

i'd rather u reframe d qst, cant seem to get it

OJODEL10: WHAT IS THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THESE RELICS IN ISLAM RELIGION WORSHIP.

barackodam:


as i was told by my Islamic Studies teacher, it is not compulsory for u to kiss the black stone, i havnt been to Mecca before, so i hv no idea hw it seems, buh he said, wen u get there, and u kiss it, u are goin to feel as though u tasted something lime/orange, he then said if u are unable to kiss it, merely Raisin ur hands up facing it and saying Allahu Akbar and then kissin ur hand, u r goin to have the same feeling, so i no not why most ppl want to kiss it, and did i hear u say love? Frm wat i highlightd, u can c that most ppl just want to have the feeling, notin else
and peharps cos the Prophet was quoted to have said,
The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)said concerning the Stone: “By Allah, Allah will bring it forth on the Day of Resurrection, and it will have two eyes with which it will see and a tongue with which it will speak, and it will testify in favour of those who touched it in sincerity.”
Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 961; Ibn Maajah, 2944

cleanvessel:

You have tried but the questions are four in number. You have answered only one and even the one is not completely answered. You didn't say why the blackstone is treated specially from the other stones as all of them came from heaven.

Please go back to your said islamic teacher for the four questions as those who are supposed to help you out in this forum may not be of help as they know the implications.

Thank you.

barackodam:


wud u mind helpin me list the 4 qsts?? And mind u, i cant ansa all

cleanvessel:

Read my first post here you will see them there.

cleanvessel: 1.What is your source?

cleanvessel: 2. Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?

cleanvessel: 3. Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

cleanvessel: 4.If Allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba to Jerusalem and again Kaaba?

barackodam: I no u wunt b satisfyd, buh i did ansa ur qstions

cleanvessel:

You gave the impression that the stones used to build Kaaba were rained down from heaven.

What is your source?

cleanvessel:
Why is that particular stone black among others, or are they all black?

cleanvessel:
Why do muslims fall in love with only the blackstone to the extent that they kiss it. One would expect their love should extend to other stones used in the building since they all came down from heaven together.

cleanvessel:
If allah meant muslims to face Kaaba when praying, why did they turn from facing Kaaba - to Jerusalem - and again Kaaba?

barackodam:

It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The Black Stone came down from Paradise.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; al-Nasaa’i, 2935. The hadeeth was classed as saheeh by al-Tirmidhi).


It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said:“When the Black Stone came down from Paradise, it was whiter than milk, but the sins of the sons of Adam made it black.”
(Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 877; Ahmad, 2792. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Khuzaymah, 4/219. Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar classed it as qawiy (strong) in Fath al-Baari, 3/462)
invariably, all wer neva black


ansad this earlier


When Allah commanded Prophet of Allah to face towards Jerusalem Muslims obeyed Allah and faced towards Jerusalem. Allah did it to test Jews if they will accept Islam and join Muslims, but they did not accept Islam. So Allah damned Jews, dethroned them from being most favored people, and commanded Prophet Mohammad to face back to Mecca as they did before when they were in Mecca. By doing so Allah created new nation of believers in Allah and made Muslims the most favored people of God for over 1000 years.

cleanvessel:
You said the black stone was white initially but turned black because of the sin of the people:

1. It shows those who go to touch or kiss it are sinners. For people to be qualified or allowed to touch or kiss such a spiritual stone, they should have been purified. Why did they allow the stone to be polluted by sinners?

cleanvessel: 2. Having turned black as a result of pollution by sins, why should people still love and kiss a polluted stone as a religious act?

cleanvessel: I do not agree with you that those who kiss and those who stretch their hand towards it from a distance feel the effect. Anything polluted by sin cannot have any power or effect as far as the true God is concerned. Something is wrong somewhere.

barackodam:


for ur information, the stone was sent down by Allah to aid Prophets Ibrahim nd Isma'eel in building the Ka'aba, may i ask u, logically, from his time to the time of Muhammad(S.A.W) do u no how many years that was, it wasnt the Ummah of Muhammad that blackend it, buh the generations before




u wudnt wanna disobey ur Lord, wud u??





am gonna gv u a very logical nd straightforward ansa......just ask any muslim wu has gone ther mayb stylishly, u no beta, buh do ask him if he felt it, i cant ansa that cos i hvnt been ther, and morever, it must b done with a clean and pure heart, mind and intention

cleanvessel:

I don't believe allah (if is the true God)

cleanvessel:
would still want an object to be so loved after it has been polluted by sin. The God I know would not permit it.

cleanvessel:
That the blackstone was sent to Abraham and Ishmael is another controversial issue.

cleanvessel:
Abraham and even Ishmael never lived in Mecca.

cleanvessel:
At best the settlers in Mecca could be Ishmael grand children.

cleanvessel:
You know it is the bible that has the detailed history of Abraham,
Ishmael and Hagar, his mother. Only the bible has records of where they lived and died.

cleanvessel:

I don't believe allah (if is the true God) would still want an object to be so loved after it has been polluted by sin. The God I know would not permit it.

cleanvessel: That the blackstone was sent to Abraham and Ishmael is another controversial issue. Abraham and even Ishmael never lived in Mecca. At best the settlers in Mecca could be Ishmael grand children.

cleanvessel: You know it is the bible that has the detailed history of Abraham, Ishmael and Hagar, his mother. Only the bible has records of where they lived and died.

OJODEL10: now, what is the significant of the crescent moon, the star and the rising sun?. note; moon worship is predominant in arab region, in fact the arab tribe that muhammed belong worship the moon-god, they kiss the kaaba, and moved round it before the birth of muhammed and is father's father as a act of worship and allah is one of the god worship in the kaaba. why will allah continue to be worship in a shrine dedicated to gods?

barackodam:


i cant ansa this, and dont capitalize on it cos its my comprehension, go ask people knowledgeable dan i am






u must b kidding me, how then did Zam Zam water came to b if they never lived ther?? And moreover, u said Bible, did Bible ever mention any soul that lived in the present Arabia?







u must b joking, i preserve my qst abt dis for anoda tym, cos it'd b diverging wch i dnt want to

cleanvessel: Ishmael lived and died in Paran, he died at the age of 137 years (Gen. 21:13-21 & Gen. 25:17-18).

cleanvessel: Paran was in Istrael, not Mecca. The Istraelites were used to doing things in Paran (Deut. 1:1, I Kings 11:18, Numb. 13:1-3).

cleanvessel: Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam.

cleanvessel: 1. Since neither Abraham nor Ishmael lived in Mecca as seen from the above, how could God send blackstone to them to build Kaaba in Mecca?

cleanvessel: 2. Again, Abraham and Ishmael were long separated by God (Gen. 21:9-12). Since God was responsible for their separation, how could He tell them to build Kaaba in Mecca for Him?

cleanvessel: 3. Why would God choose to build His house by Ishmael and not Isaac, the promised child who He actually had an everlasting Covenant with?

cleanvessel: 4. Why cann't you tell me an islamic book that gives a detailed account of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Serah and Hagar and what it says about them? I suspect there is none.

cleanvessel: Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam.

cleanvessel:

Ishmael lived and died in Paran, he died at the age of 137 years (Gen. 21:13-21 & Gen. 25:17-18).

cleanvessel:
Paran was in Istrael, not Mecca. The Istraelites were used to doing things in Paran (Deut. 1:1, I Kings 11:18, Numb. 13:1-3).

cleanvessel:
Please note that when all these events took place islam had not existed and nobody could think it would exist. Therefore they could not be biased against islam.

cleanvessel:
I want to ask these questions:

1. Since neither Abraham nor Ishmael lived in Mecca as seen from the above, how could God send blackstone to them to build Kaaba in Mecca?

cleanvessel:
2. Again, Abraham and Ishmael were long separated by God (Gen. 21:9-12). Since God was responsible for their separation, how could He tell them to build Kaaba in Mecca for Him?

cleanvessel:
3. Why would God choose to build His house by Ishmael and not Isaac, the promised child who He actually had an everlasting Covenant with?

cleanvessel:
4. Why cann't you tell me an islamic book that gives a detailed account of Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Serah and Hagar and what it says about them? I suspect there is none.