One of my closest friends has not only stopped believing in God, but, in case He really exists, which he doubts, he dislikes him as well. He blames God for all the misery in the world and wonders why He allows it to happen. He says life is smoother and 'less complicated' without God in it. 'I've heard all your arguments before,' he says, 'and they tire me.' These are his grouses:

*If God knew Satan was going to turn bad and unleash anguish in the world and cause mankind's downfall and untold suffering, why did he go ahead to create him?

*Salvation is unfair. He was born into a christian home, as I was. How did that accident qualify us for salvation? What about untold millions who happen to be born into muslim and Buddhist and Shinto homes: They all believe in their God as passionately as we believe in ours. If they happen to be wrong, because they were born and raised in religions different from ours through no fault of theirs, they now go to hell?

*What about all the evidence and all the science that backs up evolution? What about the human skull that was found in Kenya, 12 million years old? Adam and Eve till the present day did not accrue even ONE million years, as their genealogy in Mattews shows.

*Why has no Christian proven the existence of God beyond all doubt?

*Why is there so much suffering? Why does God allow terrible things to happen, where million of lives are lost?

True, man is a failed experiment. God gave everything he made free will, and the angels and all the other strange beings in heaven are there because they freely chose to be. They are creatures of greater complexity of design and intelligence than man, and a third of them rebelled, because they could. Now they're on earth to bring woe to mankind, and damn him alongside themselves, making him pay for a choice he had no hand in making: Rebellion against God. Science has proven that evil is in the human genes. Read The Selfish Gene by Dawkins. We are inherently evil, and there's no such thing as 'good in every human being'. They attribute it to natural selection, but all this isn't new to God. The Bible has long said no one is good except God. Science is sweeping a torchlight in vast darkness, and it will all still lead to God, but how do I help my friend? How do I answer his questions? I had no answer to the second question. I mean, if some muslim fundamentalist chooses to blow himself up in a crowded place, all I can say is: He'll have plenty of time to reflect on his decision, but what about other peaceful religions? The Bible says Christ is the ONE way, but ALL religions believe theirs is the ONE way. Please advice on what to say to him.

i'm assuming your friend is having trouble with finances or a good job? Most modern day Nigerian "christians" only "love God" as long as they have money and drive good cars.

@poster:

Offer him a Bible. Tell him everything he is looking for is in it. Simple!!!

Pple are asking too many ques nd its causing too many probs.Well like sm1 said:offer er d bible.




I'm very sure Huxley went tru dis process of ques askin b4 he eventually arrived at dis present level today.

has not only stopped believing in God, but, in case He really exists, which he doubts, he dislikes him as well.

How can your friend dislike something he doesn't believe in or doesn't believe exist? Doesnt make sense to me.

BUT since your friend is still in his doubting phase, I'd advise him not a read the historical man written storybook aka the bible. But to mediate and reflect on how far he has come in life and be Thankful tö what brought him thus far.

He'll come to realise that a higher power has brought him that far.

Pple are asking too many ques nd its causing too many probs.

Whats wrong in asking question? If you can't ask questions then that fact/truth/ is NOT VALID, if it can't stand questions.

madamkoko:

BUT since your friend is still in his doubting phase, I'd advise him not a read the historical man written storybook aka the bible. But to mediate and reflect on how far he has come in life and be Thankful tö what brought him thus far.

More woolly phrases signifying nothing. "Mediate" and "reflect" on what or who? Be "thankful" to just WHAT has brought him thus far?

madamkoko:

He'll come to realise that a higher power has brought him that far.

What "higher power"? do you know him and can you show us? what does he do? does he have a book that we may read too?

Mediate" and "reflect" on what or who?

ON HIS LIFE AND EXPEREINCES.

If he's alive i'm sure he has a story/experiences.

What "higher power"? do you know him and can you show us? what does he do? does he have a book that we may read too?

THATS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU FOLKS, YOUR SAD ATTEMPT TO ALWAYS WANT TO DEFINE GOD.

RUBBISH!!!

some of this people that call d bible tales by moonlight ,should please write sm books for us to read

poster introduce him to the bible ,but i believe hes got a problem anyway

should please write sm books for us to read

Its sad that you feel the only way you can experience God is to read someone else's account of who or what God is.

How sad!> very sad.

Find God on your own, i'm sure he'll reveal himself to you.


_{I'm not surprised that writing/selling christian books in Nigeria are enough to make fools millionaires.}

madamkoko:

ON HIS LIFE AND EXPEREINCES.

If he's alive i'm sure he has a story/experiences.

Still more woolly nonsense. The guy must have done a lot of "meditating" and "reflecting" to come to his warped conclusions. What more meditation do you want him to do?

madamkoko:

THATS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU FOLKS, YOUR SAD ATTEMPT TO ALWAYS WANT TO DEFINE GOD.

RUBBISH!!!

my own problem with hypocrites like you is your vacuous attempt to build a life around an indeterminate object aka "higher power".

madamkoko:


Its sad that you feel the only way you can experience God is to read someone else's account of  who or what God is.

How sad!> very sad.

Find God on your own, i'm sure he'll reveal himself to you.


_{I'm not surprised that writing/selling christian books in Nigeria are enough to make fools millionaires.}

very sad huh?yeah never mind,i enjoy reading it,im not complaining,so dont drink panadol on my own head ache ok?

madamkoko:

Its sad that you feel the only way you can experience God is to read someone else's account of who or what God is.

How sad!> very sad.

Find God on your own, i'm sure he'll reveal himself to you.


_{I'm not surprised that writing/selling christian books in Nigeria are enough to make fools millionaires.}

How do you "find" something you cant define? Isnt this worse than someone who reads the bible?

madamkoko:


Whats wrong in asking question? If you can't ask questions then that fact/truth/ is NOT VALID, if it can't stand questions.

Nuttin but some things are better accepted the way they are being presented to you rather than askin yourself TOO many ques and seeking d origin of sm of those things hence getting yourself in a mess.One of those things is GOD!!
Der are some things we are not meant to know/can't understand no matter how much we try.

The friend should accept the things d bible tells him/her about God and not ask him/herself futher ques hence arriving at some silly conclusion and making sm unfavourable decisions.

madamkoko:


Whats wrong in asking question? If you can't ask questions then that fact/truth/ is NOT VALID, if it can't stand questions.

True . . . i have now decided to ask a question (so as to see if your "fact" is valid)

- who is the "higher power" you talked about earlier?

The problem is instead of answering the questions which i believe most of the religious apologist can't the resort to dancing and digressing from it because they know they have little or no answer to it all.does jesus love the people in china, japan, thailand, india, and the americas? if he does then why no mention of them in the bible even when their civilization predated christ?why are there no prophets amongst them when they were very much in existance before and during the time of jesus?  what will happen to them when they die? will they rot in hell for eternity for not following jesus who they have never encountered and who refused to reveal himself to them during his time on earth and afterwards? the answer is simple the reason why china and india and the americas where not mentioned in the bible is because the jews in the old testament and the early christains at that time never knew that such places were in existance thats why there were'nt included in the scheme of things if they had known they would have included them in the scheme of things or do you mean to tell me that an almighty creator doesnt know all the people that he created to the extent of ommiting them in his holy book?'if there is a god he would have revealed himself to the whole of humanity not just some people and tell them to help propagate his massage.

All religions were created to answer the very difficult questions people had about the purpose of life and the pesky question of what happens to a person when he dies, every race and group of people during the medieval times tried to give answers to those questions and came up with some set of guidelines in other to explain the unexplainable about life ,its purpose, nature and death. Those cultures where then embedded in the life styles of the people and it kept moving from one generation to generation whilst undergoing the process of evolution, thats why in the bible we have the new and old testament.

the god in the old testament is definately not the same god in the new teatament, we have the god in the old testament ordering people to kill , maim and loot the treasury of non jews because it was the practice at that time, the jews wanted to keep themselves together and they had to encouarge each other and give justifications for engaging in wars with their fellow neighbours hence the resorted to the idea that they were the chosen people by their god to give moral justification for all the killings, looting, stealing of land, and enslavement they made their enemies undergo by telling their people that they were commanded by their god to do so because their enemies too had their own gods and didnt believe in the god of the jews,when actually they were just looking for reasons to carry out their henious crimes and sometimes unjustifiable wars against their enemies. will an almighty god tell people how to fight their enemies and what to do with the bounty they have collected from the war? if god is god he will send earth quakes or floods to destroy his enemies and the enemies of his choosen people, he wouldnt order his people to kill and maim on his behalf. by the way why does god need to have a choosen people? why can't he accept every body? why does he have to choose amongs the jews and arabs to be his choosen people? why didnt he choose the chines, the indians of people from the americas?

human and animal scarifice was the norm hence it was encouraged by god in the old testament. but because the moral ziegiest had shifted and those babaric acts that were encouraged and sometimes commanded by god in the old testament were no longer acceptable to the people the founders of the christain religion came up with the new  testament (new ideas or new begining), in it was the divinity of jesus who came to the world as god to do away with the old and evil ways of the old testament which could not hold any ground because there was little  universal morality to be fechted or learned from the old and primitive way(old teatament) the jews in the old testament were encouraged to love  god and their fellow jews but not the non jews, infact the jews were the choosen ones and were the ones that were talked about in most of the old testament . that doctrine could not be used universally so a new and universally accepatable doctrine had to be invented hence the idea of the divinity of jesus who now came to end practices like stoning to death of wrong doers, jesus came to put an end to fighting the enemies of god and his people,destruction of people by god for trivail reasons like picking of sticks on the sabbath, jesus espoused the love of the poor regardless of tribe, giving women rights because they had very little rights in the old testament, and providing an end to the wrongful stealing of peoples lands in the name of god by the jews, and better treatment of slaves was advocated by jesus to all people.

monogamy was then gradually introduced and the love of god and man was highly encouraged instead of love of jews only which was what was advocated by the prophets and god himself in the old testament. Because the moral ziegiest had shifted the idea of trinity sprang up came into being and gave people reason to believe in god in a different way with a coherent explanation(trinity was integrated with some parts of the pagan worship doctorines at that time for some political reasons). the introduction of holy spirit, hell and other ideas came up in the new testament to conform with the mindset of the people and provide the answers for life after death and the purpose of living but this time the religion was opened for innovation, the religion was dynamic and was made to be an all inclusive religion for the whole of man kind not only for the jews as was in the case of the old testament because a religion with the jews at the forefront will not be accepted globally.

the same thing is what is happening in islam but the problem with islam is that there are no grey areas like christainity (which is constantly evolving to fit in with time and acceptable standard of living of people), there are no cutting edge areas in islam that is why people find it hard to understand it. islam highly discourages innovation and wants people to live their lives in the medieval ages which is not possible in this day and time hence the deviation and constant explanation by islamic apologist. the rules set by islam can hardly stand in todays world but coherant excuses have been provide by the religion to dispel the charges of the critics same as christainity.Islam only attacks and denounces chriatainity and judaism by name because those where the only religions that the founders of islam knew were in existance at that time, if they had known about hinduism, shinto etc they would have attacked and denounced them by name too. if god can reveal himself to a particular group of people in the mediaval ages then i wonder why he refuses to do so in this modern day and time. if there is a god he would explain himself to his creatures and will not allow his creatures to tell their fellow creatures what he wants of them, if god can tell pastors, rabbis,imams etc what he wants people to do and how to live their lives why not appear and tell people to do so himself because the song is always better from the horse's mouth. if god can tell a pastor,rabbi, imam etc what verse to read from the bible,torah or koran why can't he come out and tell people himself. why give people free will which they never asked for and throw them in hell for going against it? why reveal your self to some of your creatures and not others and punish those that you refused to reveal your self to for eternity for not believeing in you. those that make any sense?

The division in christainity and the uncountable sects(over 30,000 sects) tells you that it is purely a man made religion just like every other religion(islam,hinduism,judaism,shinto,buddahism etc) even the bible has so many versions and translations(over 80 english translations alone), christains can not come up with a single and acceptable brand that will be adhered to the world over(because everything about it is man made). islam too has the same problem but unlike christainity the sects are not too diverse. I don't believe in any religion but i still like religion because it gives people hope and provides internal peace and justice to the helpless, it gives people reason to live and look forward to a better future despite that fact that it is responsible for some of the biggest division and lack of acceptance in the world today. I believe religion is still is a necessary evil.

All religions were created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.

I just want answers to his questions. It doesn't help to say he shouldn't ask questions. He doesn't believe God exists, but he dislikes him in case he's wrong and there is a God.  I'm sure God can withstand close scrutiny, even if we can't. Please advice on what to tell him. It doesnt matter if it's speculation; how many things do we know for sure anyway?

Mad_Max:

I just want answers to his questions. It doesn't help to say he shouldn't ask questions. He doesn't believe God exists, but he dislikes him in case he's wrong and there is a God. I'm sure God can withstand close scrutiny, even if we can't. Please advice on what to tell him. It doesnt matter if it's speculation; how many things do we know for sure anyway?

Your friend is not only an atheist he is also an anti-theist. I have exactly the same sentiments. The god of the bible is a pretty vile, repugnant and reprehensible character. To love such a character is to display not only gross ignorance but also a failure to develop higher moral if not thinking abilities.

Missy B:

Nuttin but some things are better accepted the way they are being presented to you rather than askin yourself TOO many ques and seeking d origin of sm of those things hence getting yourself in a mess.One of those things is GOD!!
Der are some things we are not meant to know/can't understand no matter how much we try.

The friend should accept the things d bible tells him/her about God and not ask him/herself futher ques hence arriving at some silly conclusion and making sm unfavourable decisions.

How can u tell someone who is a non believer not to ask questions? If i told u that i was an atheist would u just accept that without questioning me about my beliefs?

Nuttin but some things are better accepted the way they are being presented to you rather than askin yourself TOO many ques and seeking d origin of sm of those things hence getting yourself in a mess.One of those things is GOD!!
Der are some things we are not meant to know/can't understand no matter how much we try.

The friend should accept the things d bible tells him/her about God and not ask him/herself futher ques hence arriving at some silly conclusion and making sm unfavourable decisions.

 

Utter nonsense, thats why nigeria and nigerians are still living in abject poverty and squalour in the midst of of plenty, accept things the bible tells you even when the bible tells you utter nonsense like snakes eating dust, or bats are birds or that the male and female animals in the whole world entering a small boat? ohh people should not ask questions when the compliers and writers of the bible state things that are not possible like moses writing the first four books of the bible? how can moses write about his life and death and things that happened after his death? is that possible?people should not ask question as to why there are over 30,000 chriatains denominations each knocking heards with each other and over 80 different translation of the english version of the bible alone. people should not ask why a god that creates the whole world chooses to reveal himself to a choosen few, why did god not reveal himself to people living in china, indai and the americas in the bible? why are there no prophets amongst them? why were they not mentioned in the bible even though they were existing at that time. why would a god be jealous of his creatures? why does god have to tell people to fight and kill for the glory of his name in the old testament? if people like david and moses were alive today would they be considered as godly or war criminals? no wonder nigerians are still thirsty despite being placed in an ocean of resources by nature.

 
Mystics live by fear, they live their entire lives by fear, fear of good, fear of hell,fear of change, fear of doubt, kill the non believer. non sense, i live in a godless and religiousless country which is a hundered times better than nigeria in everything and the reason is that the people have learned to ask questions and the discovered the answers to their questions which is that ye are gods, and that man created god in his own image to give him comfort and help him answer things he does not and cannot understand and comprehend about life and death.

Why can't pple read and comprehend ?Did i say tis a crime to ask ques?

I said SOME things are better taken the way they are offered rather than ask ques and one of those things is the GOD.I said so cuzz of the numerous ques she said in her 2nd ,3rd,4th and 5th paragraph that her friend was askin.

Mazaje
I know u're very "good" at essay bhu i'm realli not in dat mood tonyte neither i'm i into you so i'll let you be and pls if you read ma statement and stil don't understand,endeavour to ignore me and ma post instead of misinterpreting me.

All these alwaz quick to quote pple.

Mad_Max:

I just want answers to his questions. It doesn't help to say he shouldn't ask questions. He doesn't believe God exists, but he dislikes him in case he's wrong and there is a God. I'm sure God can withstand close scrutiny, even if we can't. Please advice on what to tell him. It doesnt matter if it's speculation; how many things do we know for sure anyway?

@Poster,the best you can do is to pray for her soul to be captured by God.You can take a horse to the stream but u can't force the horse to drink from the brook  Pray for her,pray pray pray ! ! !
I'm yet to see a man that was saved by mere men,it takes the spirit of God to do the conviction and lead the person to all truth.Dear,pray for her.U might answer all her questions and still not get her convinced,pray that God,in his love and mercies clears her doubts,answers all her questions and bring her unto himself.

@ Poster

There is nothing wrong with your friend, he is perfectly normal.

I also share his veiws.

Everybody need to ask themselves these questions too.

@Poster

Pray for your friend and commit to Christ's hands. Pray unceasingly. Make sure that you are also a true Christian. One that lives by the commandments of God and shows love to God and his neighbours and enemies.

Sometimes quoting Bible verses does not move people to believe. Actions do. By your good example he will "see" the goodness of God. We may not be able to physically "see" God, but people can see God in us. That is the most powerful way to lead people to God. Telling them one thing and doing another does not lead them to God. Living the life of a faithful and truthful Christian, will show your friend that God is real, and he is love, even in time of adveristy, he is the one that will stand by us when others forsake us. It may not be in our time, but it will be at God's time and God's time is the best.

Remember all things work out for the best for those who love God. Not some things, but all things, whether good or bad. It works out for the best.

The best example of this is the sacrifice of Christ. He was falsely accused, and hung to die byt hose who did not want to hear the truth and did not want to stand for justice, but the end result, salvation came to the world, not just a select few, but to all of us. We all can be saved, we need to believe and follow.
The best thing that ever happened to makind is the sacrifice of Christ.

Encourage him to know that no matter what he is going through it will work out for the best as long as he trusts in the Lord.
He needs to let go of his anger, it only gives way to the devil.

He isn't angry. Merely indifferent. And he's not going through a whole lot. Like I said, God can be scrutinised, and I would prefer answers to his questions, unless there aren't any, which would be awful, wouldn't it?

Scrutinized?

What/How do you mean

@Poster

If your friend hates God, which one concern you?!

Your friend is not going to stand by you on the day of judgement is he?!

*Salvation is unfair. He was born into a christian home, as I was. How did that accident qualify us for salvation? What about untold millions who happen to be born into muslim and Buddhist and Shinto homes: They all believe in their God as passionately as we believe in ours. If they happen to be wrong, because they were born and raised in religions different from ours through no fault of theirs, they now go to hell?

I used to wonder about this sha.

That is why its your responsibility to share the Gospel

Gamine:

That is why its your responsibility to share the Gospel

lol the poser knows it erm responsibility but the question is HOW and what words do you say to a friend that dont believe there a God

Poser?

My post was in the reference to the issue of people

believing whatever path they were born into.


What words? Tell the person to Die.