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Death by zawad: 11:54pm On Aug 20, 2008
1.The word of God says that once a person dies his/her body returns to the soil. What about his/her spirit/soul? (Does it sleep? or go to a special place? or remain in the grave or at home or wonder in the universe?) A. Before you answer bear in mind that no one has ever ascended to heaven except Jesus.
B. God's word also says 'no blood or flesh can or will inherit his kingdom'.
When the day come the dead will be raised and come out their graves e.t.c C. What happened to Elisha and Moses ?
Re: Death by justcool(m): 4:23am On Aug 21, 2008
zawad:

1.The word of God says that once a person dies his/her body returns to the soil. What about his/her spirit/soul? (Does it sleep? or go to a special place? or remain in the grave or at home or wonder in the universe?) A. Before you answer bear in mind that no one has ever ascended to heaven except Jesus.
B. God's word also says 'no blood or flesh can or will inherit his kingdom'.
When the day come the dead will be raised and come out their graves e.t.c C. What happened to Elisha and Moses ?


A.) If you think that nobody has ever ascended to heaven, then what about the thief who was crucified at the side of Jesus. According to the gospel Jesus said to the alleged thief:

"Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."(Luke 23:43)

Is Paradise not in heaven?
I think that the scripture you refereed to, which says: "No one has gone up to heaven except the one who came down from heaven, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (John 3:13) has a different meaning than people think. That Scripture has a different meaning and it does not apply to your question. To understand that scripture you have to ask yourself which heaven the Scripture was referring to.
I will not go into explaining the meaning of that scripture. Let me answer your question:

What we call death is only the death of the physical body. The physical body is only a cloak or and instrument of the soul/spirit. The physical body came from the earth, while the spirit came from above, hence:
"then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being"(Gensis 2:7)
The physical body is that which God formed from the dust of the ground or earth, while the spirit is that breath of life which came from God.
So when the physical body dies it is buried and returns to dust of the earth. After the disintegration of the physical body it returns to dust. But the soul/spirit which separates from the physical body during death, still lives.
Therefore after what we call death the soul/spirit still lives.

If the spirit is without sin, it will return to heaven from whence it was given. It will return to the proximity of God which is heaven or paradise. The physical body cannever be raised to enter paradise or heaven because paradise is a spiritual place and only spirits can enter it.

If the soul/spirit has sinned, then it will go to a place/plane of like nature, where it will receive all the works it has done. All the sins it had committed will await him/her in a plane of like nature. i.e, a plane corresponding to the nature of evil the soul had done. Murderers will find themselves in a plane of murderers, thieves will find themselves in a plane of thieves or a plane filled with thieves. There they will suffer a thousandfold for all their sins. Perhaps this is what people call hell. The soul will remain in this state until it is purified enough to leave this environment to a better one. i.e until it has paid for all it's sins and repents. As the soul changes, it's environment changes. If it remains evil, it will be caught up in an evil environment and will remain there until it changes inwardly. Only then can it leave that environment/plane to a better one. It might have be reincarnated on earth again in-order to have another chance to do good or redeem it's guilt.

It is not only heaven or hell like people think. In-between heaven(Paradise) and hell, there are many other planes/heavens where people sojourn after death. Only the purified spirits(One without sin) enter Paradise which is the highest heaven for human spirits. The fact that there are many heavens is comfirmed by the writer of Corinthians when he wrote:

"I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago-- whether in the body I do not know, or out of the body I do not know, God knows-- such a man was caught up to the third heaven." (2 Corinthians 12: 2)

Also consider these verses:

"Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it."(Deutronomy 10:14)

"He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens, so that He might fill all things." (Ephisians 4:10)

"Praise Him, highest heavens, And the waters that are above the heavens!" (Psalm 148:4)

All these goes to show you that there are many heavens. Only God resides above all the heavens.
Re: Death by zawad: 8:22pm On Aug 21, 2008
Thanks for your kind time and for the words. I managed to carry out some research and I came up with some answers regarding my question. Though similar to yours there is also a place I would like to enlighten you.

When you die, do you go straight to heaven or hell, or do you remain on earth until Judgment Day?
"And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation" (Hebrews 9:26-27).
"And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who "will render to each one according to his deeds": eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness--indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 2:3-10).
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad" (II Corinthians 5:10).

It is apparent from the verses quoted above that every person, good or bad, believer or non-believer will appear before God to be judged according to the things he has done while living on this earth. The judgment takes place after death, but it also refers to it as the day of judgment. It is a single event, and not an on going process.

"We are bound to thank God always for you, brethren, as it is fitting, because your faith grows exceedingly, and the love of every one of you all abounds toward each other, so that we ourselves boast of you among the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that you endure, which is manifest evidence of the righteous judgment of God, that you may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you also suffer; since it is a righteous thing with God to repay with tribulation those who trouble you, and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes, in that Day, to be glorified in His saints and to be admired among all those who believe, because our testimony among you was believed" (2 Thessalonians 1:3-10).

Paul's statement to the Thessalonians establishes that the Day of Judgment comes after Christ's second coming. At that time the faithful will be rewarded and the wicked will be punished.

The only direct indication of what happens to man between his death and the Judgment Day is given in Luke 16:19-31: "There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.(paradise) Then he cried and said, 'Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.' But Abraham said, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.' Then he said, 'I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father's house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.' Abraham said to him, 'They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' And he said, 'No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.' But he said to him, 'If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.'"
This tells us that there is a place of waiting. In the Old Testament it is called Sheol or the grave. In the New Testament it is called hades. The waiting place is divided into two sections one called torments, here in this passage, and the other is called paradise (Luke 23:43). These places are not the final stop for man, but serve as the place of waiting. Jesus now holds the keys to death and hades (Revelation 1:18). When he returns, he will open up the grave. "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth -- those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation" (John 5:28-29).
The story in Luke also tells us that waiting place is not on earth because Abraham and the rich man discussed whether Lazarus could return to warn the rich man's family. Hence, the waiting place is in a different place than here on earth.
NOTE: Once you die a sinner there nowhere in the scriptures where the sinful soul can be acquitted off its wrong doing. This is because once you are living you have all the potential time to live and lead a righteous life
One popular concept you will not find in the Bible is that of purgatory: a place where people can atone for their "minor" sins by paying for it with sufferings for a season. While the wicked do suffer while waiting for judgment, you must remember that Abraham said that there is no crossing between the realms in the grave. Also recall that Paul had said we will be judged by the deeds done in the body. Once you are dead, your fate is sealed. You destiny depends on your behavior while you live.
Re: Death by Bobbyaf(m): 4:06pm On Aug 25, 2008
Zawad I'd have to agree with you. No one goes to heaven, or hell after they die. Persons will attempt to show you passages that not even they themselves fully understand the context in which those those passages were written.

The scripture makes it very clear that Christ will judge all men and that after such a judgment all men will receive their just reward whether it be eternal life or eternal death. Note I said "eternal death" versus "eternal suffering".

Listen to Jesus's own words:

Revelation 20:12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."

Jesus simply cannot give out rewards before they are due, and they are due after the judgment. That is why there has to be a judgment, or the opening of the books.

Some persons are quick to jump to passages that seem to indicate that persons after death go to heaven. One passage in particular pints to the thief on the cross. The punctuation of the sentence wrongly implies that thought. The Greek in its original format was not punctuated, but each translation was, and that is where the problem started.

Translators with their religious biases, placed commas, and other forms of punctuation marks, where they thought they should be. Here is one instance:

Luke 23:, "42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43:And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Notice what happens to the meaning when we place the comma after the word Today in the sentence.

"I say unto you today, thou shalt be with me in paradise."

In other words Jesus simply was assuring that thief that same day that his place was secured in paradise, and not that on the very same day he was going to heaven. Besides, not even Jesus went to heaven after He died. Jesus rose on the third day, and even remarked to Mary not to hold on to Him for he had not yet ascended back to His Father.

Another passage 2 Cor. 5, that they attempt to distort so as to justify their belief system is the one that refers to being absent from the body and present with the Lord. Paul isn't using this passage to suggest what happens after death, but rather to express his desire and longing to get rid of that body he possessed, which could only be dis-possessed when Jesus returns.

Paul made sure to clarify in 1 Corinthians 15 the realty of the resurrection, and that during such a resurrection our mortal bodies would one day be immortal. While he expected that, he had no qualms expressing that desire, or longing to be with the Lord.

If we believe the bible to be united in its themes of truth, then we shouldn't have to isolate passages of scripture to highlight erroneous doctrines. Too often we develop scant regard for God's word in favour of church teachings.
Re: Death by aqueda91: 10:32pm On Nov 10, 2011
Hi there, Speaking of death prediction, I find it really odd that one of the on-line death prediction services showed me the same death date that I was foretold in my dream about a year ago. http://yourdeathdate.info/1/index.html - I can’t explain this coincidence in any other way except that there must be some kind of magic involved here.

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