I sometimes get confused about how to pray? some people say you have to shout when praying, while some poeple say you have to meditate, please nairalanders I NEED YOUR VIEWS ON THIS?

It depends on you.
If you like shout/cry
You also can decide to mutter
As long as ur heart is in communication with him at dat moment

It all depends on which God u are praying to:
some god are so deaf that u need to shout before they can hear u.
some are slumpers, so thorough shaking of ur head and body will disturb them and wake them up to answer u.
some need to see physical blood from u before attending to u. lol

But as for the Almighty God, the creator of the whole universe, the maker of all living things, the giver of life, who lives in Heaven above, whose name is Jehovah God, u dont need to shout, 'cos before u even said out ur mind, He knows what u wnt to say, no need to shout to him, but humble urself and apply what Jesus taught at Matt.6:6-8.
if u like, dont even uttered a word, but silently in ur heart, He hears it.

just like u dont shout at ur President when talking him, should u shout and command God when requesting favour from him?

There is no scientific evidence to prove that prayer actually works. So when you shout or speak in tongues its a sign of desperation because your prayers are not working

prayers don't work its all in the mind


If I pray for a banana 3 things can happen.

1. I will get a banana fairly soon
2. I will get a banana in the distant future
3. I get no banana

If I don't pray for a banana 3 things can happen.

1. I will get a banana fairly soon
2. I will get a banana in the distant future
3. I get no banana


The difference?

manmustwac:

The difference?

. . . you dont know what prayer is all about.

manmustwac:

prayers don't work its all in the mind


If I pray for a banana 3 things can happen.

1. I will get a banana fairly soon
2. I will get a banana in the distant future
3. I get no banana

If I don't pray for a banana 3 things can happen.

1. I will get a banana fairly soon
2. I will get a banana in the distant future
3. I get no banana


The difference?

atleast when u pray u have tried somehow.

manmustwac:

There is no scientific evidence to prove that prayer actually works.

Maybe. However, that doesn't mean you understand science.

Oh by the way scientists are recreating the big bang theory today. Lets hope they can create life just like they "theorised" occured long long time ago.

orunta:

I sometimes get confused about how to pray? some people say you have to shout when praying, while some people say you have to meditate, please nairalanders I NEED YOUR VIEWS ON THIS?

It depends on your mood and the burden. Even the bible said that Jesus prayed and the sweat that came out from his body was like blood which means the burden is too much for him. Prayers has level when one is praying our lords prayer and when one is interceding for someone that had fatal accident to survive and blood is rushing no one will tell you to change the to be loud or not. In a nut shell it depends on the prayer point.

the issue is not whether we shout or not, it is all about the way holly spirit is directing us and how we are flowing with him

I agree,it depends on the prayer point and how heavy the burden is. Shouting isn't a mandatory requirement for God to hear one.

Guess the 'you must shout' mentality comes from some churches that emphasize shouting during prayer sessions. The leader goes ''Open your mouth and pray.Raise your voice to the heavens,or are you tired?'' This makes people think you have to shout out loud to be heard by the Almighty or that if you don't shout it means you're not serious about your prayer when this is not the case.

Shouting isn't compulsory people.  .  .pray as your heart so desires.He'll hear you whichever way you choose to do it.

rubi:

It depends on your mood and the burden. Even the bible said that Jesus prayed and the sweat that came out from his body was like blood which means the burden is too much for him. Prayers has level when one is praying our lords prayer and when one is interceding for someone that had fatal accident to survive and blood is rushing no one will tell you to change the to be loud or not. In a nut shell it depends on the prayer point.

has paryer ever saved some one that is bleeding to death? why then do we have first aid being thaught in schools if prayers can do the magic?. . . . prayers never solve anything. . . .  if it does then no one will die on the nigerian highways. . . . because it is one of highways that sends the highest amount of prayers in the world i believe and yet it is still one of the highways with the highest death occurance and accidents. . . . . if prayers works then nigerians and africans will never be where they are simple. . . . they pray day and night for basic necessities of life yet they still remain poor with out the basic necessities. . . . . . .

mazaje:

has paryer ever saved some one that is bleeding to death? why then do we have first aid being thaught in schools if prayers can do the magic?. . . . prayers never solve anything. . . . if it does then no one will die on the nigerian highways. . . . because it is one of highways that sends the highest amount of prayers in the world i believe and yet it is still one of the highways with the highest death occurance and accidents. . . . . if prayers works then nigerians and africans will never be where they are simple. . . . they pray day and night for basic necessities of life yet they still remain poor with out the basic necessities. . . . . . .

Believe it or leave it prayer changes things/situation

mazaje:

has paryer ever saved some one that is bleeding to death?

How have you been able to save such a person? It is easy to sit on the fence and query just about everything. No worries, but how have "rationalism" help those who are desperately in need?

To all you bible bashers in the house let me explain simple logic to you

If i tell a child to something and he refuses i raise my voice or i shout at him to do that that thing

If am on a bus the conductor asks me to pay my fare and i refuse he will raise his voice or shout at me to pay the fare

Its the same thing with prayer, you pray 4 something but it dosen't work so you shout thinking that that would solve the problem but it dosen't. It can only work inn the first two examples but it can't work in the third.

why? because the first two are practical problems while the third one depending on the situation could be spiritual' sickness, cancer, exam results etc

una don chop? well me i dey go watk wack oh! man must wack! catch una later

manmustwac:

why? because the first two are practical problems while the third one depending on the situation could be spiritual' sickness, cancer, exam results etc

But is it even rational that you must shout at a child? Even when you engage in a shouting match with some kids these days, you're wasting your time.

rubi:

Believe it or leave it prayer changes things/situation

Nigeria is the only country that i have been to where people pray before they eat. .  . . . it still remain the worst country i have ever been too. . . . .  if pray changes things at least nigeria and nigerians wont be where they are. . . . . .  that's just an example. . . . . .  why do moslem's and christains go to hospitals if prayers work?. . . . .  why are the atheist european nations doing better than the religious african countries that pray day and night?. . . . . . has prayer change nigeria? has prayer alone ever made and sick person you know well. . . . . .

pilgrim.1:

How have you been able to save such a person? It is easy to sit on the fence and query just about everything. No worries, but how have "rationalism" help those who are desperately in need?

i can save a bleeding person by applying first aid on the person. . . .  rationalism has helped those in need by showing them that they need to apply first aid to a bleeding person instead of praying for him. . . .

have you forgotten so soon that for everything that happens to mankind, THERE IS A PURPOSE, and NOBODY can ask GOD Why because he is greater and mightier than anybody, that people die everyday on highways everyday in nigeria or people are poor and all that does not really mean God is not existing or that prayer has no effect, and this is one thing i know for sure that if your ways are right before your creator, he has made everything right for "them that deligently seek him"

mazaje:

i can save a bleeding person by applying first aid on the person. . . .  rationalism has helped those in need by showing them that they need to apply first aid to a bleeding person instead of praying for him. . . .

That's all well and good. But first is not all there is to the "rational" idea of healing a person. There are some incidents that involve serious bleeding - and we know that first aid simply won't do the job. How have you helped such cases?

mazaje:

[b]has paryer ever saved some one that is bleeding to death? [/b]why then do we have first aid being thaught in schools if prayers can do the magic?. . . . prayers never solve anything. . . .  if it does then no one will die on the nigerian highways. . . . because it is one of highways that sends the highest amount of prayers in the world i believe and yet it is still one of the highways with the highest death occurance and accidents. . . . . if prayers works then nigerians and africans will never be where they are simple. . . . they pray day and night for basic necessities of life yet they still remain poor with out the basic necessities. . . . . . .

it can,wt faith

pilgrim.1:

That's all well and good. But first is not all there is to the "rational" idea of healing a person. There are some incidents that involve serious bleeding - and we know that first aid simply won't do the job. How have you helped such cases?

ohh i kind of get where you are driving at. . .  personally what i do is apply first aid. . . then call an ambulance if the bleeding persist. . . . . but in places like nigeria where all these things are non exsistent prayer seems sensible. . . . . because that is the only thing they can do in such conditions but that doesnt mean that the prayers work because if it does nigerians wont be where they are today. . . . . .

Why not let's leave the issue of healin or bleedind or accident out of this? have you ever asked yourself how you come to existance?, it is from the power in the WORD which is prayer, jus a simple let there be,

There is power in the word of our mouth and whatsoever we say or at times think has the power of coming to fufilment

samcin:

Why not let's leave the issue of healin or bleedind or accident out of this? have you ever asked yourself how you come to existance?, it is from the power in the WORD which is prayer, jus a simple let there be,

There is power in the word of our mouth and whatsoever we say or at times think has the power of coming to fufilment

I don't know how i came into existance but i know i did'nt not come into existance by the word? by the way which of the words? hebrew word?. . .  why not arabic?. . .

@mazaje,

Thank you for your understanding. In addition to the point I was trying to make, I have seen instances where prayer actually helped in restoring the health of critically wounded people. Admittedly, I don't understand why it doesn't "work" for everyone who prays; but I'm confident that real cases have been recorded where healings took place following the prayers of people.

Many people quickly come to the conclusion that prayer "doesn't work", and the reasons are best known to them. It would be irrational indeed for me to argue against them especially because I don't know why they came to that conclusion. As well, it would be irrational for anyone to just come to the conclusion that prayer doesn't work or yield any results. Why? Because they do not know of every single case about prayers and praying people.

So, why is it that some prayers have not yielded results or been answered? I don't know exactly why, and I would not risk pretending that I know. However, I know one thing for a fact - prayer is dynamic and one cannot expect the same cloned response to follow every instance of prayer. The arguments that some people put forward sometimes sound really childish; because often is the case that they assume prayer to be something akin to automatons! That is so far from reality.

Prayer actually works. I have enjoyed praying - not only for my needs, but also for the needs of others - and yes, I have seen answers to most of my prayers. Every single instance? No. But the point is that prayer actually does "work".

pilgrim.1:

@mazaje,

Thank you for your understanding. In addition to the point I was trying to make, I have seen instances where prayer actually helped in restoring the health of critically wounded people. Admittedly, I don't understand why it doesn't "work" for everyone who prays; but I'm confident that real cases have been recorded where healings took place following the prayers of people.

Many people quickly come to the conclusion that prayer "doesn't work", and the reasons are best known to them. It would be irrational indeed for me to argue against them especially because I don't know why they came to that conclusion. As well, it would be irrational for anyone to just come to the conclusion that prayer doesn't work or yield any results. Why? Because they do not know of every single case about prayers and praying people.

So, why is it that some prayers have not yielded results or been answered? I don't know exactly why, and I would not risk pretending that I know. However, I know one thing for a fact - prayer is dynamic and one cannot expect the same cloned response to follow every instance of prayer. The arguments that some people put forward sometimes sound really childish; because often is the case that they assume prayer to be something akin to automatons! That is so far from reality.

Prayer actually works. I have enjoyed praying - not only for my needs, but also for the needs of others - and yes, I have seen answers to most of my prayers. Every single instance? No. But the point is that prayer actually does "work".

I dont believe that prayer works. . . i still insist that if it does nigeria will never be where it is because nigeria is the MOST prayerful nation i have been to and i have been to so many countries. . . . . i have seen people pray for good health in nigeria but nigeria still has one of the highest infant and maternal mortalities in the world, most of the people in finnland and in europe do not pray but have better health than nigerians. . . i have seen so many people pray for money in nigeria. . . most of the european athiests have far more disposable income than the very prayerful nigerians. . . . . so many people pray to get admission into universities in nigeria without success, while the athiest europens do not pray at all but get admitted. . . . nigerians pray for peace but the country is quite precarious most especially the niger delta region. . . the athiest finnish people never pray for peace and the country is far more peaceful than nigeria. . . . so many nigerians pray for journey mercies when embarking on journeys but nigeria still holds the record as one of the countries with the highest rate of road accidents besides the armed robbers . . . .prayer does'nt give money. . . . hard work and luck does. . . it doesnt give good health. . . healthy living does. . . . and it never provides peace. . . .human behaviour and activities does. . . . i repeat if prayer works nigeria will NEVER be where it is today because Nigeria is the MOST prayerful nation i know. . . most of the countries i have visited are european countries and are all athiest countries who never pray and the people and the countries are FAR better than nigeria and nigerians in everything. . . .

@mazaje,

mazaje:

I don't believe that prayer works. . .

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your argument is untenable because you're looking at Nigeria and making claims from subjective point of reference, which is not the same thing as an established and concrete statement.

mazaje:

i have seen people pray for good health in nigeria but nigeria still has one of the highest infant and maternal mortalities in the world

I don't think it is wise to be so polarized as such. One cannot blame the results of prayer on indices of infant mortality - and if at all you want to hold that line of argument, you seem not to have carefully checked your facts, mazaje. A reminder:

Countries such as Sierra Leone and Angola are not as "prayerful" as you may assume for the case of Nigeria; but established sources put their infant mortality rate at far higher than that of Nigeria . . . please see the following quick references:

http://www.aneki.com/mortality.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)

Besides, what strikes me is that people who sound as polarized as you do often want to blame every single problem you can fathom on the wrong indices. Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?

mazaje:

most of the people in finnland and in europe do not pray but have better health than nigerians. . .

Most Asians do not pray and yet suffer far more than you deplore the case for Nigeria.

mazaje:

i have seen so many people pray for money in nigeria. . . most of the european athiests have far more disposable income than the very prayerful nigerians.

Most atheists with all their wealth disposed have not been able to help the situation of suffering people - a most remarkable thing nobody talks about. While Christians will endeavour to reach difficult places with helpful resources, most of the atheists I know will simply curse away and do absolutely nothing in such instances. Atheism is not to be mistaken as the best alternative for wealth - I know a lot of very wealthy Christians who do not go about bragging about their wealth. Whether or not one is a theist or atheist, you point of reference is quite unfortunate - you place "money" as a reference index for prayer, and that is simply failure to make an effort to understand what prayer is really about.

pilgrim.1:

@mazaje,

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your argument is untenable because you're looking at Nigeria and making claims from subjective point of reference, which is not the same thing as an established and concrete statement.

I don't think it is wise to be so polarized as such. One cannot blame the results of prayer on indices of infant mortality - and if at all you want to hold that line of argument, you seem not to have carefully checked your facts, mazaje. A reminder:

Countries such as Sierra Leone and Angola are not as "prayerful" as you may assume for the case of Nigeria; but established sources put their infant mortality rate at far higher than that of Nigeria . . . please see the following quick references:

http://www.aneki.com/mortality.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)

Besides, what strikes me is that people who sound as polarized as you do often want to blame every single problem you can fathom on the wrong indices. Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?

Most Asians do not pray and yet suffer far more than you deplore the case for Nigeria.

Most atheists with all their wealth disposed have not been able to help the situation of suffering people - a most remarkable thing nobody talks about. While Christians will endeavour to reach difficult places with helpful resources, most of the atheists I know will simply curse away and do absolutely nothing in such instances. Atheism is not to be mistaken as the best alternative for wealth - I know a lot of very wealthy Christians who do not go about bragging about their wealth. Whether or not one is a theist or atheist, you point of reference is quite unfortunate - you place "money" as a reference index for prayer, and that is simply failure to make an effort to understand what prayer is really about.

Some of the most recent studies of intercesory prayers have shown them not to have the desired effects. In fact, they have tended to have the negative effect; Check this out

The oldest statistical analysis of the effects of third party prayer was performed in 1872 by Francis Galton[1], perhaps as a form of satire as well as an experiment. Galton hypothesized that if prayer was effective, members of the British Royal family would live longer, given that thousands prayed for their wellbeing every Sunday. He therefore compared longevity in the British Royal family with that of the general population, and found no difference. However, Galton’s experiment suffered from a number of confounding variables.

A number of studies have claimed that patients who are being prayed for recover more quickly or more frequently. One such study, with a double-blind design and about 500 subjects per group, suggested that intercessory prayer by born again Christians had a statistically significant positive effect on a coronary care unit population.[10] Another such study was reported by Harris et al.[11] Critics claim Byrd's 1988 study was not fully double-blinded, and that in the Harris study, patients actually had a longer hospital stay in the prayer group, if one discounts the patients in both groups who left before prayers began,[12] although the Harris study did demonstrate the prayed for patients on average received lower course scores (indicating better recovery). One of the largest randomized, blind clinical trials was a remote retroactive intercessory prayer study conducted in Israel by Leibovici. This study used 3393 patient records from 1990-96, and blindly assigned some of these to an intercessory prayer group. The prayer group had shorter hospital stays and duration of fever.[13]

Some studies of prayer effectiveness have yielded null results.[14] A 2001 double-blind study of the Mayo Clinic found no significant difference in the recovery rates between people who were (unbeknownst to them) assigned to a group that prayed for them and those who were not.[15] Similarly, the MANTRA study conducted by Duke University found no differences in outcome of cardiac procedures as a result of prayer.[16] In another similar study published in the American Heart Journal in 2006[17], Christian intercessory prayer when reading a scripted prayer was found to have no effect on the recovery of heart surgery patients; however, the study found patients who had knowledge of receiving prayer had slightly higher instances of complications than those who did not know if they were being prayed for or those who did not receive prayer.[18]

Most studies above have not to date directly measured the belief level of the beneficiary, leaving a possible confounding variable for the experiments.

# ^ O'Laoire S. An experimental study of the effects of distant, intercessory prayer on self-esteem, anxiety, and depression. Altern Ther Health Med 1997;3:38-53. PMID 9375429.
# ^ Aviles JM, Whelan SE, Hernke DA, Williams BA, Kenny KE, O'Fallon WM, Kopecky SL. Intercessory prayer and cardiovascular disease progression in a coronary care unit population: a randomized controlled trial. Mayo Clin Proc 2001;76:1192-8. PMID 11761499.
# ^ Krucoff MW, Crater SW, Gallup D, Blankenship JC, Cuffe M, Guarneri M, Krieger RA, Kshettry VR, Morris K, Oz M, Pichard A, Sketch MH Jr, Koenig HG, Mark D, Lee KL. Music, imagery, touch, and prayer as adjuncts to interventional cardiac care: the Monitoring and Actualisation of Noetic Trainings (MANTRA) II randomised study. Lancet 2005;366:211-7. PMID 16023511.
# ^ Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: A multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer [1]
# ^ a b Benson H, Dusek JA, Sherwood JB, et al (2006). "Study of the Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer (STEP) in cardiac bypass patients: a multicenter randomized trial of uncertainty and certainty of receiving intercessory prayer". Am. Heart J. 151 (4): 934–42. doi:10.1016/j.ahj.2005.05.028. PMID 16569567.





The world's most generous philanthropist have been atheists, viz:

1) Bill Gates - donates many billions
2) Warren Buffet - also donate 90% of his wealth to humanitarian causes. This is the world's richest man, mark you.
3) Andrew Carnegie - donated nearly all his wealth to charities. He was once the world's richest.

Would help if you try and get some of your facts right.

That doesn't mean it doesn't work. Your argument is untenable because you're looking at Nigeria and making claims from subjective point of reference, which is not the same thing as an established and concrete statement.

 

how the does prayer work? how is its effect measured?

I don't think it is wise to be so polarized as such. One cannot blame the results of prayer on indices of infant mortality - and if at all you want to hold that line of argument, you seem not to have carefully checked your facts, mazaje. A reminder:

Countries such as Sierra Leone and Angola are not as "prayerful" as you may assume for the case of Nigeria; but established sources put their infant mortality rate at far higher than that of Nigeria . . . please see the following quick references:

  http://www.aneki.com/mortality.html
 
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate_(2005)

Besides, what strikes me is that people who sound as polarized as you do often want to blame every single problem you can fathom on the wrong indices. Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?

I said one of the countires with the the highest mortality rate, i never said it has the highest mortality rate. . . . the bottom line is that people pray for good health in nigeria and the positive result is yet to be seen. . .

Most Asians do not pray and yet suffer far more than you deplore the case for Nigeria.

The never believe in prayer and its powers. . . . .

Most atheists with all their wealth disposed have not been able to help the situation of suffering people - a most remarkable thing nobody talks about. While Christians will endeavour to reach difficult places with helpful resources, most of the atheists I know will simply curse away and do absolutely nothing in such instances. Atheism is not to be mistaken as the best alternative for wealth - I know a lot of very wealthy Christians who do not go about bragging about their wealth. Whether or not one is a theist or atheist, you point of reference is quite unfortunate - you place "money" as a reference index for prayer, and that is simply failure to make an effort to understand what prayer is really about

You think so . . . angelina jolie, warren buffet. . .  bill gates. . . . richard browson are all athiest that do alot of GOOD to poor people. . . .  how is my referance unfortuanate? nigeria is the most prayerful nation on earth that i know. . . . .  hence the reference. . . . . .

huxley:

Some of the most recent studies of intercesory prayers have shown them not to have the desired effects. In fact, they have tended to have the negative effect;

Which is quite a sad "study" - because they would have to explain how I've seen positive results in prayers.

huxley:

The world's most generous philanthropist have been atheists,

And no theist has been a philanthropist, No?

This is the amazing thing about engaging people who are projecting that atheistic worldview with untennable points of reference. Intelligent and reasoned discourses go beyond mere statistics, because at the end of the day we are still left asking: what exactly is the real question?

So far, when I try to reason with non-theists, the picture I get from their argument is that theism is irrational while atheism is more rational. My answer: by observation even on this forum most rationalists have been the most unreasonable people. A case in point, huxley: I have tried to go through most of your threads just to sample how people interacted with you. To my amazement, in one particular thread that you raised for none believers, stimulus respected your desire to reserve that thread for nonbelievers. But what has been your attitude to Christian threads? Assuming I was not even a believer, would I take that type of attitude as rational at all?

Secondly, if the question was asked again, other atheists try to project the idea that religion has never done any good, while atheism is the better alternative. Sad inference - because such people have never had the rational at all to make simple empirical observations. If one even goes so far to state that most people who have murdered religious folks are themselves atheistic, then irrational outcries are heard again from the same people.

What really is the question at the end of the day?

So far the references I have read are simply too immature to be inceptive. I mean, what really has infant mortality of a country got to do with prayer? Or how does a subjective "study" establish that in every case, prayer has never produced results? Or yet, how does one empirically deduce that atheism is synonymous with philanthropy? And one wonders at what exactly is the gist of atheism.

@huxley, I am yet to see a "rational" excuse from what is presented. I'm sorry to observe that the real questions are not even dealt with at all.

@mazaje,

mazaje:

I said one of the countires with the the highest mortality rate, i never said it has the highest mortality rate. . . . the bottom line is that people pray for good health in nigeria and the positive result is yet to be seen. . .

I asked a simple question, my dear friend. Should I remind you what it is:

[list]Infant mortality and prayer - please can you establish the point of reference as a philosphical and scientific methodology of measuring such demography for any nation?[/list]

mazaje:

The never believe in prayer and its powers.

Which was a reminder that your indices or point of reference still do not establish your argument.

mazaje:

. . . .You think so . . . angelina jolie, warren buffet. . .  bill gates. . . . richard browson are all athiest that do alot of GOOD to poor people. . . .  how is my referance unfortuanate?

For the same reason in my reply to huxley's that this does not prove theists are not philanthropists. Again, what is the point of reference?

mazaje:

nigeria is the most prayerful nation on earth that i know. . . . .  hence the reference. . . . . .

That is because you have not done a proper study to establish your connection. Please refer again to my simple question and delight me with the philosophical and scientific connection between "prayer and infant mortality of any nation" as the tools of measuring demography of any sort.