Assalam alaikum warahmatullah wabarakatuhu,

Insha Allah I will be starting new threads over the next few days, they pertain to acts of faith – salat, alms, etc. Please your input will be highly appreciated. I know that I will learn from it and I believe that the ummah will too,

On Salat:

If one misses an obligatory prayer, (eg Zuhr) is it right to join a congregational prayer for the next one (Asr) without first performing the missed salat?

What is the way to go when you have done the above?

Should you move your finger when you do attahiyat? I remember a lecture saying you may or may not. I just want to be sure that it does not nullify my prayer.

Please note that there may be difference of opinion on these topics, let us remember that the Prophet of Allah warned us about irrelevant thing creating divisions amongst us.

So bottom line, if these questions fall under “yes” by some scholars and “No” by others,
May Allah guide us to the straight path. Amin

Wa alaykum salam warahmatullah wabarakatuh.
Like You rightly said, there are difference of opinion on the matters u raised, but Alhamdulilah, the differences are no cause for problems. One should just adopt the one he/she feels most comfortable with.
   On the salah issue, if one is owing a particular salah (say Zuhr) and enters upon a mosque where asr is being observed in jama'a, You make the intention of the one u owe, i.e. Zuhr and join the congregational salah. when this is finished, then u stand up and observe ur asr.
   On  the position of finger during tashaahud, it's reported that the Prophet (saw) used to move his finger vigorously at times and at other times, he'D keep it straight without moving. Therefore U're correct if u do either and neither of both nullifies ur salah. You can read this book for more info on this: Sifatu salatu Nabiy 'Description of The Prophet's Prayer' compiled by Al-Albani.

Nice response

@Zayhal, Babs

Thank you

Asr prayers are not followed by Nafilat?, however, can I do nafilat before Maghrib prayers (when I get into the mosque)?

If you are sure that Asr is being offered, say at 4.30 pm, when you entered the masjid, you should join them to make the asr.

Then after the pray, you should go back and offer the Salatul Zuhr that you missed, already. Then you should now stand up to make salatul Asr, all over again!

You can not make intention for a wrong Salah, an earlier farida, when you know that it is another farida that is being made!

Please take the case of it you miss already, Magrib and you enter the masjid in the first rakah of isha. If you join them, you have to pray Isha, and not intention for Magrib, because you will have a 4 rakah magrib. And you can get out of salah before the salah is finished, anyhow! That will be obviously invalid, if you do so. Make the isha and the go back to make magrib and then after all of these, another Isha!

You can wait until they make the fard, and then offer your own previous salah separately, before you offer the salah that is currently in!

If a person who has made his Zuhr came in to join you for for his own Asr, while you are making Zuhr, it is no problem.
And there must not be two jama'a going on at the same time!

You can make tayatul masjid if you wish and make 2 rakah when you make wuduh. However there are exceptions to the rules. After asr and before magrib, for example it is not necessary to do this.You can read Qur'an or other engage in other recommended ibadat; Dhikr and others.

The prophet (AS), was reported to have made a two rakah after asr once! The reason was that he paid up his 2 rakah that was to come after Zuhr. In this particular occassion, he was engaged, from the time of after Zuhr to after Asr! Then me just make it up to complete the sunnah of Zuhr!

@olabowale

with all these exclamatory punctuations, one'd imagine U shouting out your responses like a soldier!

No, Uktu! Its not like that. How is ramadan, anyhow? But the ruling is the correct standing. Its not my place to impose my own opinion. It is our duty to follow Muhammad's implimentation of sharia, by his sunnah and ahadith.

Thanks everyone.

My little girl runs head on into me during prayers and I let out an audible "ouch" (Yes it hurt), Does this nullify the salat? Do I need to start over? Thank you.

Your salah is not nullified because of something you couldnt control, like a ouch.
It would have been better if you bear it quitely. But you have the two sujjud
that come after tashhud and salatul ibrahima. You just two prostrations and teslim out.

Islam is easy and it is convenient for every level of strength and conditions.

olabowale:

Your salah is not nullified because of something you couldnt control, like a ouch.

What about a fart?

Does an involuntary loud or silent fart nullify salat?

.

Nimshi:

What about a fart?

Does an involuntary loud or silent fart nullify salat?

.

Yes. Farting, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, loud or silent, nullifies your salah. You need to go make a fresh ablution and start all over.

olabowale:

If you are sure that Asr is being offered, say at 4.30 pm, when you entered the masjid, you should join them to make the asr.

Then after the pray, you should go back and offer the Salatul Zuhr that you missed, already. Then you should now stand up to make salatul Asr, all over again!

You can not make intention for a wrong Salah, an earlier farida, when you know that it is another farida that is being made!

Please take the case of it you miss already, Magrib and you enter the masjid in the first rakah of isha. If you join them, you have to pray Isha, and not intention for Magrib, because you will have a 4 rakah magrib. And you can get out of salah before the salah is finished, anyhow! That will be obviously invalid, if you do so. Make the isha and the go back to make magrib and then after all of these, another Isha!

You can wait until they make the fard, and then offer your own previous salah separately, before you offer the salah that is currently in!

If a person who has made his Zuhr came in to join you for for his own Asr, while you are making Zuhr, it is no problem.
And there must not be two jama'a going on at the same time!

Gbam !

This would be one of my favourite threads cos i v seen lots of my doubts being cleared small small.

@ayinba

May Allah reward you abundantly, and to me and other contributors

zayhal:

Yes. Farting, whether voluntarily or involuntarily, loud or silent, nullifies your salah. You need to go make a fresh ablution and start all over.

Could you then discuss the underlying reasoning for this conclusion? If you have sources, could you point to them?

A related question would be whether farting invalidates Wudu. Would one need to begin again? More important is the reasoning guiding the answer.

.

Nimshi:

Could you then discuss the underlying reasoning for this conclusion? If you have sources, could you point to them?

A related question would be whether farting invalidates Wudu. Would one need to begin again? More important is the reasoning guiding the answer.

.

Yes. it was reported dat Rasullulah (saw) said whatever comes out of the two holes between the legs vitiates d ablution. I'm not quoting now, just d interpretation of meaning. But now that u mention it, I'll try and look it up later, I mean d hadith itself.

Thank you for the attempt to look it up; please share anything you end up finding. It's more important to have a grasp of guiding principles than having to cram individual injunctions. Regards.
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Farting (Breaking the wind), urinating and defecating, and other discharges from the two openings of the private parts of the body, invalidates the wudu. However you have to be aware that any of these came out of your body.

As to the farting, it is stated that if you hear or smell it, then your wudu is broken. It does not have to be loud sound or strong smell before you know that you broke the wind. The only reason that either of these two requirements are in place is that the Shaitan bothers the believers more when he/she is engaged in Ibadat. Shaitan brings falseness. We do know that he gives false information, always. The same way he brought false information to our forebearers, Adam and Hawa about the tree. The same way he is making what is wrong seemingly right in the eyes of disbelievers.

May Allah protect us from the tricks of Shaitan and his helpers. Amin.

@Olabowale
Nimshi wants a particular source, probably a hadith quotation. I'm trying to look it up but am so busy

Thanks everyone.

My little girl runs head on into me during prayers and I let out an audible "ouch" (Yes it hurt), Does this nullify the salat? Do I need to start over? Thank you.

Salam.

In addition to their response, here is addendum:


carrying and holding a child during the salah

Abu Qatadah reports that the prophet (saw) was offering salah and Umamah bint Zainab was on his neck (shoulder). When he performed ruku, he put her down and when he got up from his sadjah, he would place her back on his neck. 'Amr inquired during which salah this happened, Ibn Juraij said it is related from Zaid Ibn Abu 'Adab from 'Amr ibn Salim that this happened in the morning prayer.

Abdullah ibn Shidad relates that his father said 'the messenger of Allah (saw) came to us either during the noon or afternoon prayers and he was carrying Hassan or Husain. The prophet (saw) proceeded to the front and put him down and made the takbir for the salah. During the salah, he made a long Sajdah. I raised my head and saw the child on the back of the messenger of Allah (saw) while he was in sadjah. I returned to my sadjah. When the messenger of Allah finished the salah, the people said to him, 'o messenger of Allah, you prostrated during your salah so long that we suspected you were thinking about some matter or you were receiving some revelation.He said, 'none of this happened but my son was resting and I hated to rush him until he had finished what he desired. This is related by Ahmed, an-Nasai' and Al-Hakim.

@Zayhal: « #17 on: Today at 07:16:58 PM »

@Olabowale
Nimshi wants a particular source, probably a hadith quotation. I'm trying to look it up but am so busy

Me look in the Qur'an itself, first. Allah states that the Qur'an should be touched/recited by those who are clean (Tahara). All a person has to go is go to the tafsir of that verse on being in clean state before touching or reciting the Qur'an. Also one can go to the tafsir about wudu and tayyamam. These two will give plenty of explanations and wthere will be ahadiths on it.

You can also approach the ahadith books under Wudu/ablution. Nimshi should do a bit of research by himself, if he is very keen about it. At least for his own understanding to better verify what the muslims are saying!

olabowale:

@Zayhal: « #17 on: Today at 07:16:58 PM »
Me look in the Qur'an itself, first. Allah states that the Qur'an should be touched/recited by those who are clean (Tahara). All a person has to go is go to the tafsir of that verse on being in clean state before touching or reciting the Qur'an. Also one can go to the tafsir about wudu and tayyamam. These two will give plenty of explanations and wthere will be ahadiths on it.

You can also approach the ahadith books under Wudu/ablution. Nimshi should do a bit of research by himself, if he is very keen about it. At least for his own understanding to better verify what the muslims are saying!

olabowale: this is directly against the spirit of discussion, both your comment and the rather thinly veiled insinuation. Perhaps you're talking about what you know little about? First you give a rather oblique (that's being quite polite) contribution on the reasoning behind wudu being broken a fart:

olabowale:
The only reason that either of these two requirements are in place is that the Shaitan bothers the believers more when he/she is engaged in Ibadat. Shaitan brings falseness. We do know that he gives false information, always. The same way he brought false information to our forebearers, Adam and Hawa about the tree. The same way he is making what is wrong seemingly right in the eyes of disbelievers. May Allah protect us from the tricks of Shaitan and his helpers. Amin.

I will without any apologies state that the above as reason for a fart emanating from a person's bodily functions is meaningless. You could blame Shaitan for many things if you do like, but hardly for the gas emanating from your rear.

Yet, you cite non-specific sources and then broadly advice research; either you've a basis for what you're writing or not; this isn't a forum for children waiting to receiving instructions without some crtitique; if that's what you're used used to, then too bad; such learning by rote does nothing to improve a person.
.

Firstly, the things that invalidate ablution, or wudhu are:

1. Passing of excrement, urine or wind
2. Deep Sleep
3.Losing of one's senses by any means such as madness, fainting, drunkenness, or use of drugs etc,
4. Touching the sexual organs intentionally and with naked hands.

If one passes the wind during salat or anything mention above, he should break the salat and should do the wudhu over and re-do the Salat.

You should raise your hands, say Allah Akbar, look to the right and leave the Salat to refresh your Wudu.

If you are leading Salat in Jamat, you should do the same, exept pull the person directly behind you and put him in the position of imam, then leave.

edit: it means that someone has to continue leading the salat, so you must pull someone from the first row, preferably the person right behind you and move him to the position to lead the salat so it can be completed by him for the rest of the jamat.

f you have a flatulence problem that you know you cannot complete any prayer without blowing, then that is considered an illness for the day, and Allah would excuse you, Someone who is ill and cannot for some reason make prayers is excused, Same if you had (excuse me folks) diaheria, you certainly wouldnt want to risk bending over and having an accident, so you are excused, Just after your stomach settles if its for the day or whatnot, then resume your prayers at such time you feel your bout is over,


Q. A person feels very uncomfortable during prayers because he gets recurrent thoughts that he might have discharged wind and invalidated his ablution, or wudhu. This happens very frequently, almost in every prayer. And it is all without sound or smell. This person often wonders whether he actually discharged wind or it was merely a bowel movement. Please advise.

ANSWER

A. An important rule in Islamic worship is that a certainty cannot be removed or contradicted by a doubt. Therefore, we should always rely on what we know to be certain. Thus, if prayer is due and one is unsure whether he needs to have ablution or not, there are one of two cases. The first is that he had already done his ablution, or wudhu, but is unsure as to whether he might have invalidated it. The certainty here is that an ablution has been done. The doubt is about its invalidation. Therefore, he is considered to still have a valid ablution. The second situation is that he is not sure whether he did the ablution in the first place. In this case, he is deemed not to have done it and a new ablution is required. Thus, in the case of doubt, we always act on the basis of what is certain.

If we have a person who is certain to have had ablution, but then he experiences a feeling that he might have invalidated it by a wind discharge. He is unsure. We say that a certainty cannot be removed except by a counter certainty. A wind discharge is ascertained by sound or smell. If neither is present, then no wind discharge has taken place. It is a mere sensation that might have no substance.

Scholars in all generations warn against giving in to such thoughts because they can become an obsession. In this case, the reader describes this person as permanently uncomfortable in prayer. The best thing for him to do is to ignore the prompting to have a fresh ablution and repeat his prayer. When he does this for a few days, he will find that the whole thought is removed, God willing.


Also read:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&=1119503546214

babs787:

An important rule in Islamic worship is that a certainty cannot be removed or contradicted by a doubt. Therefore, we should always rely on what we know to be certain,
Also read:
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&=1119503546214

The above, (and all else following it) is a substantive contribution to the discussion; here we have an example of a "rule" that could be useful even when unfamiliar situations arise. The rule isn't perfect (we decline a criticism at this time); but it's very useful. This contribution is appreciated. And because we live to learn, it is important that some of us pay attention so as to leave with something valuable and positive.
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@Nimshi: Please, don't make this a personal issue. It is obvious that in academic enviroment, your professor gives you the skeletal material. You will have to provide by your own research, the meat/flesh to cover the bone.

Please do the same here. If you are a muslim, I think your refusal to even make an effort, is unnecessary. It is an obligation on you to verify what your Lord and His prophet (AS) say about a matter of interest to your life.

If you are not a muslim, it is even more important to not be spoon fed by the "muslims," but for you to investigate this on your own! Please do that. Maybe there is a path of guidiance ahead of you. Please take that step.

babs787:

Firstly, the things that invalidate ablution, or wudhu are:

1. Passing of excrement, urine or wind
2. Deep Sleep
3.Losing of one's senses by any means such as madness, fainting, drunkenness, or use of drugs etc,
4. Touching the sexual organs intentionally and with naked hands.

If one passes the wind during salat or anything mention above, he should break the salat and should do the wudhu over and re-do the Salat.

Shouldn't the lsit also include other nawaqis?
1) vomiting
2) flow of blood or pus out of any part of the body
3) laughter ?

Would these three not also invalidate wudu?
.

olabowale:

@Nimshi: Please, don't make this a personal issue. It is obvious that in academic enviroment, your professor gives you the skeletal material. You will have to provide by your own research, the meat/flesh to cover the bone.

Please do the same here. If you are a muslim, I think your refusal to even make an effort, is unnecessary. It is an obligation on you to verify what your Lord and His prophet (AS) say about a matter of interest to your life.

If you are not a muslim, it is even more important to not be spoon fed by the "muslims," but for you to investigate this on your own! Please do that. Maybe there is a path of guidiance ahead of you. Please take that step.

Your aggressiveness is transparent, and it is unwarranted. Who's the professor? You? Climb down, mortal man; climb down.

Where did you develop the omniscient powers to figure that I refused to research? Discussion breeds new ideas; there's only so much one could learn on their own. Questions are asked for different reasons; sometimes, to provoke responses: you never know how such responces will lead to other positive things. A clear example is the contribution I just commented on; a contribution that's far superior to that weak attempt to blame farting on Shaitan.

All in all, you appear to be in need of knowledge, to which you may then apply wisdom (which you may or may not have). Cease being aggressive and imputing bad motives to others; perhaps then, you'll be able to help even yourself.

Now, enough about this. Let's return to important matters.
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@#Nimshi

Now, enough about this. Let's return to important matters.
.

What is/are the important matter(s)

babs787:

@#Nimshi


What is/are the important matter(s)

A direct question. Good.

And the answer is the topic of this thread and matters related to it.
.

@Nimshi

Shouldn't the lsit also include other nawaqis?
1) vomiting
2) flow of blood or pus out of any part of the body
3) laughter ?

Would these three not also invalidate wudu?

Do you care to shed lights on that in the light of the Quran and Sunnah? Has the purpose of the thread been established? If yes, no story telling but if no set the ball rolling for other issues

babs787:

@Nimshi
Do you care to shed lights on that in the light of the Quran and Sunnah? Has the purpose of the thread been established? If yes, no story telling but if no set the ball rolling for other issues

In this case, I have no documented support; that's the reason for putting this out there. I have requested the fellow who wrote these to assist with references. Item 1) makes some sense within the context of other nawagis (that's not to mean that one says it is definitely so, but that were vomiting to occur, one would rather advice that wudu be restarted); Item 2) should make sense, but there are 'natural' extenuating circumstances; Item 3) is the tough one. Needs more understanding/finding. It is good to seek it.

As to the purpose of the thread, it's more like a living plant than a building of concrete. I believe you should understand that.
.

@nimshi,

Purpose of the thread? I thought that I was pretty clear. Pardon me but can you break the statement below down into a layman's term(s)?

Nimshi:


As to the purpose of the thread, it's more like a living plant than a building of concrete. I believe you should understand that.
.

@Nimshi
Please read my post again, about academical enviroment. I did not insinuate in any place that I was the professor. The next line, which is quoted below, claerly states that you should do a research in this matter. If you are muslim, please take it easy. The time to break fast is quite approaching, whereever you may be.

Allah says in the Qur'an that when Allah and His Rasul have made a decision on a matter, it ids not befitting for a believer to have another opinion.

Further, He the Almighty says that answer Muhammad (AS), when he calls you for what will give you life!

Yet in another, He say, Obey Allah and obey the Messenger. There are many more verses that tell you the importance of direct acceptance or obedience to the Prophet of Allah by his Lord's commands.

Finally, prophet Muhammad said that people should not ask too much question, in a way that is mundane, because Allah may give commandment upon such a thing.

Finally, Allah says that Muhammad never says things of his own desires, except that he has been commanded.

The excerpt from my response to you: Please do the same here. If you are a muslim, I think your refusal to even make an effort, is unnecessary. It is an obligation on you to verify what your Lord and His prophet (AS) say about a matter of interest to your life.

I hope we are now on the same page.