Assalam alaikum warahmatullah,

yes, it's me again!

Today the world is ours if only we can see it, I hope this makes more sense as I go on,

To the brothers, how many of you have stay at home wives? And how many of you with working wives would agree to her staying at home if she wants to for the sake of improving the family's prep for this world and the hereafter?

I always thought that I would love to be a career woman, oh yes, I had many icons on TV. As I grow older, I see greater wisdom in having a choice to stay home and nurture your family.

Not everyone has this choice. But our brothers, how can you make this more available for our sisters if they so desire?
I say we start with raising our sons right!

ayinba1:

Assalam alaikum warahmatullah,

yes, it's me again!

Today the world is ours if only we can see it, I hope this makes more sense as I go on,

To the brothers, how many of you have stay at home wives? And how many of you with working wives would agree to her staying at home if she wants to for the sake of improving the family's prep for this world and the hereafter?


I always thought that I would love to be a career woman, oh yes, I had many icons on TV. As I grow older, I see greater wisdom in having a choice to stay home and nurture your family.
.

Not everyone has this choice. But our brothers, how can you make this more available for our sisters if they so desire?
I say we start with raising our sons right!

and what about our daughters?

Sorry, I'm not a brother but I have an input here.
A lot of brothers, especially the ones striving to uphold the sunnah, are now emphasizing this. Infact, it's the sisters, the wives that are complaining that they're not allowed to go out and work.

You know a lot of factors determine the decision of a woman to wanting to stay at home or her husband agreeing to such. The woman's background, the financial status of the family, the attitude of the husband towards spending on his family and most importantly, the level of Islamic understanding of the family. Insha Allah, as the topic progresses, I shall expantiate on each point

Our daughters too! This is an ongoing discussion.
Why our sons?

well, i'm not married now and I pray Allah provides me with a woman that would make my Islam better and has a good understanding of the deen.

You have a point. Some sisters themselves dont want to stay at home, just very few of them.

I'm not married now so i cant really say much but I'm indifferent as long as Allah gives me enough resources to take care of my family, Alhamdililah !

Point blank, my wife wont sit in the house. Her father paid alot to send her to school. She would (Insha Allahu) be a companion in my business.

so? what if her father spent billions on hereducation? what does it matter? Is d the best way to utilise this so-much father's money not in the investment into posterity, plus the additional advantage that u'd be obeying Allah in the verse that says women should stay in their homes.

zayhal:

so? what if her father spent billions on her education?

I don't know why people focus more on things that are not just as relevant and helpful to other Muslims within the society. I have not said my wife will work under a Kafr nor have I said her father's money is more important than what she has to offer the family. What am saying is, if Muslim women who are believed to be helpmates of their husbands stay at home and care for the kids, does it assist anyone besides her kids. The role of a Muslim woman maybe be different from that of a Muslim man, but please, a woman who I met within the same college, wears hijab and is strict about Islam. Why do you think she came to school in the first place? To be babysitted. Your reply implies that Muslim women should not even go to school, because why do you have to spend time acquring a knowledge you wont use?

Women can't sit and become liabilities just because they're guarding their chasitity. Am not in support of the western ideology of feminism but the role of a woman is not only in bed and caring for her kids. The role of a woman is beyond that. AND AM AGAINST ANY IDEAOLOGY THAT SAYS WOMEN SHOULD SIT AT HOME WHEN SHE HAS A SENSE TO DO SOMETHING THAT CAN ASSIST HER HUSBAND.

what does it matter? Is d the best way to utilise this so-much father's money not in the investment into posterity,

Let's analyse this. The father invests in his daughter, and the daughter is able to help people within the society. Why must we remain rigid on issues that are minor. The fact that my wife spends the whole day with the kids doesn't help them ultimately concerning the prospects of their future.

plus the additional advantage that u'D be obeying Allah in the verse that says women should stay in their homes

You see, like I said, we don't have to close our eyes on things. This verse you're talking about didn't say: "Women must sit at home" did it? The verse only explains that when believing men are on a journey, women at home should guard their chastity. We had women of great vague at the time of the prophet and the prophet or Allah didn't mention a part that women should stay at home all day doing nothing but housekeep. Allah Himself mentions that a child of less than 2years of suckling as prescribed, his parents may give him to a foster mum (a nanny) so that shows its not a must for mothers to always sit at home.

I think Muslims of the 21st century leave the most important issues out.These includes:
1. The importance of having an Islamic state
2. The way of truimph over the dictatorship regimes
3. The enforcement of the Sharia and an Islamic Order.
And many more things, we're less concerned about our brothers in Iraq, Pakistan and other Muslim terriorities. No Caliph nothing! All we see the so called rightly guided sheiks talk about is women should not drive, women should sit at home, women should not moderate on nairaland. They leave aside the important issues and make so much emphasizes on trivial matters.

Frizy
May Allah continue to bless you

your post is excellent

I think Muslims of the 21st century leave the most important issues out.These includes:
1. The importance of having an Islamic state
2. The way of truimph over the dictatorship regimes
3. The enforcement of the Sharia and an Islamic Order.

What exactly do you mean?

Would you advocate that Nigeria, say, become an Islamic State?
.

NImshi

Funny that you chose only that part .
I am sure Frizy didnt intend it in the way you are looking at it.

Am all for equal rights for Muslim women

Frizy was trying to make a point , that instead of the Scholars to concentrate on making shariah better, stop misinterpreting it and do the right things they are focusing on what women should and should not do

mukina2: it is exactly because the meaning of Frizy's post isn't clear that I've invited him to explain it further. As of now, I'm yet to form an opinion about what Frizy has written since there's yet room for much ambiguity. By Frizy's post, I see he expresses himself clearly, so let's hope he'll explain when he's ready and has the time. There are other issues in the post, but I've found it useful to proceed by addressing a lmited number of issues.

As for you, exactly what do you mean by writing:

Am all for equal rights for Muslim women

?

-

@Frizy

Your points are noted. However the question was and still is if your wife decides that she'd rather stay at home, would that be a thing that is acceptable to you?

I disagree with you saying "irrelevant things" If it is Islamic, it is very relevant. By Isalmaic, I mean Quranic injunctions and Sunnah. I agree that some scholars will pursue some things and not other, but you will agree with me that what Allah cares about is that you strive.

Should I say 'Oh since we are not in an Islamic state, I should oppose a vote on banning open sale of liquor?" We will continue to strive. If all was perfect, there would be no room/need for doing good deeds.

@mukina

Muslim women have the best deal on earth. You will understand as we go on. If we live according to thq Quran and Sunnah, (men and women), we indeed have the best deal. May Allah increase us in understanding.
@nimshi
The ideal way is Sharia, Islamic state etc; ;you know why? Because Allah said so!

Nimshi
one time too many .Most scholars preach that men and women are never equal in Islam. even recently , a muslim guy created a topic about that. i'll provide the link later

What i was trying to say is that, i want the same rights Muslim men have for muslim women.
I mean we all observe the 5 daily prayers, if any of us sin, we get the same punishment as to our crime . and the lsit continues.


Ayinba
I know that, what are you trying to say?
i hope you are not among those who believe that men and women are not equal in islam o.
that was what i was refering to as per frizy's post, when he said scholars focused on irrelevant things.

ayinba1:
Muslim women have the best deal on earth. You will understand as we go on.

ayinba1: there's no need on my part to say white is green, or than blue is red; as of now, there are women who have "better deals" on earth than Muslim women. When we make statements like the above, we expose our claims to legitimate attack. We have been discussing marriage on the other thread, so I'll give an example from marriage are Muslim women allowed to divorce the men? Do you consider that on this one point, Muslim women have the 'best deal'?

If we live according to thq Quran and Sunnah, (men and women), we indeed have the best deal. May Allah increase us in understanding.

May Almighty Allah give us understanding.

@nimshi
The ideal way is Sharia, Islamic state etc; ;you know why? Because Allah said so!

Do you advocate Shar'ia as State Law in traditionally Christian States too? Like, say, Switzerland? Or, well, all of Nigeria?
.

mukina2:

Nimshi
one time too many .Most scholars preach that men and women are never equal in Islam. even recently , a muslim guy created a topic about that. i'll provide the link later

What i was trying to say is that, i want the same rights Muslim men have for muslim women.

Could you be specific about the rights you think are not the same for Muslim men and women that interest you?
.

@mukina

What does the Quran say about equality between men and women?

I'm sure you know the answer.

The only one who is better is the one with increased piety. This is the only criterion specified for inequality between humans (sexes, races etc)

I, for one, am not in support of a female imam. I do not see that as eveidence of inequality. So when you say men are not equal to women according to some scholars, would you care to give me some examples? Learning purpose.

@nimshi

Are you very sure that a woman cannot divorce her husband? Please give me supporting evidence. Thank you.

Your question about Sharia in a place like Switzerland? I surely hope you do not stoop to this kind of questions next time. Of couse you know the answer. The people have to want it for it to work. What percent of Switzerland is muslim? And what portion of muslims understand sharia enough to want it?

Despite all these, it still remains the ideal. Or have we become smarter than Allah? Sharia is as old as time, I'm sure you know that.

Peace!

@nimshi
Am really busy now but will reply you later.Bear that in mind.

ayinba1:

@Frizy

Your points are noted. However the question was and still is if your wife decides that she'D rather stay at home, would that be a thing that is acceptable to you?

Well if she says she wants to stay at home, I wont force to work, but my wife to be is not that type of lady.

mukina2:

Frizy
May Allah continue to bless you

your post is excellent

Muki, how are you?

I disagree with you saying "irrelevant things" If it is Islamic, it is very relevant. By Isalmaic, I mean Quranic injunctions and Sunnah. I agree that some scholars will pursue some things and not other, but you will agree with me that what Allah cares about is that you strive.

Yes I know.

ayinba1:

@nimshi
Are you very sure that a woman cannot divorce her husband? Please give me supporting evidence. Thank you.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? It is my understanding that in a permanent marriage, only the man can enforce a divorce. Do you know differently?

Your question about Sharia in a place like Switzerland? I surely hope you do not stoop to this kind of questions next time. Of couse you know the answer. The people have to want it for it to work. What percent of Switzerland is muslim? And what portion of muslims understand sharia enough to want it?

1) Sometimes when asking questions to find out specifics, one has to assume a number of positions; stooping is one of the easier ones. If it was stooping, it certainly wasn't ddeliberate this time.
2) Muslims are a minority in Switzerland.
3) So, what percentage of the population should be Muslim for Sharia to be viable for the State (assuming all Muslims in that country wants it).

.

Frizy:

@nimshi
Am really busy now but will reply you later.Bear that in mind.

Anytime Frizy. Take good care, and don't forget your dreams; and don't forget to work towards them too.

.

@nimshi,

I will find out about the divorce, Obviously, our respective understanding on the matter differ.

Sorry I do not have an answer to the question "what percent has to be muslims for sharia to be viable? " But I know it will be hard if it is a minority muslim population.

Ayinba
check my post again, all my posts are in line with Frizy's line about irrelevancies.
Some scholars say so, they always use the Prophet's hadiths about anything a woman is involved in will never prosper/ .Although others still  say its a weak hadith. i may be wrong
There are lots of misinterpretations and cultural attitude as per what women should and must not do , and about Men being the boss , These things have slowly been mixed with Islam, now most scholars cannot differentiate between what's Islamic and whats cultural

I am sure you saw the thread where we recently had  an "Alfa"  said that women cannot be leaders in Islam .

Men being Imams does not necessarily mean they are not equals of females. we are all the same .I do not support female Imams because we both know why Women cannot lead in prayers
again i quote
Chapter 33, Verse 35
"Verily, the Muslims (those who submit to Allah in Islam) men and women, the believers men and women (who believe in Islamic Monotheism), the men and the women who are obedient (to Allah), the men and women who are truthful (in their speech and deeds), the men and the women who are patient (in performing all the duties which Allah has ordered and in abstaining from all that Allah has forbidden), the men and the women who are humble (before their Lord Allah), the men and the women who give Sadaqat (i.e. Zakat, and alms, etc.), the men and the women who observe Saum
(fast) (the obligatory fasting during the month of Ramadan, and the optional Nawafil fasting), the men and the women who guard their chastity (from illegal sexual acts) and the men and the women who remember Allah much with their hearts and tongues (while sitting, standing, lying, etc. for more than 300 times extra over the remembrance of Allah during the five compulsory congregational prayers) or praying extra additional Nawafil prayers of night in the last part of night, etc.) Allah has prepared for them forgiveness and a great reward (i.e. Paradise).

Ayinba ido not want to be seen as disagreeing with my sister, lets leave this we both know the right think . May Allah help us all amin

Nimshi
c'mon now , you sure you do not know them?
or you just want me to start naming . . ?
ok  let me give some


-Islamic law makes no demand that women should confine themselves to household duties. In fact the early Muslim women were found in all walks of life.

In most Islamic familes, the females are solely confined to household chores, whilst the boys are kings

- Parents have no right to force young women to marry against their will after they have reached marriagable age

Sadly, most people have mixed this traditional thing with Islam,  As soon as a girl attains Puberty, she is carted off against her will and they say its religious

-The Prophet also advised that couples should see one another before getting married, so there is no Islamic basis for the custom of marrying young couples who have never set eyes on one another.

hehhe try this one  and see

-Women can be educated by men. and men by women

this one would never happen , lai lai. even though  the scholars know the right thing, they wont do it

70% or more of female Muslims are illiterate  , but the boys are off to school.

If  the parents dies, the  males always get more than the females

The right to ask for divorce, at any time without  being chastised


and many more . . 

Frizy hi

mukina2: thanks for supplying those.

I must tell you: on those points you mention, we don't disagree.

Salam.
.

Nimshi:

What exactly do you mean?

Would you advocate that Nigeria, say, become an Islamic State?
.

If I do so?

Nimshi:

mukina2: it is exactly because the meaning of Frizy's post isn't clear that I've invited him to explain it further. As of now, I'm yet to form an opinion about what Frizy has written since there's yet room for much ambiguity. By Frizy's post, I see he expresses himself clearly, so let's hope he'll explain when he's ready and has the time. There are other issues in the post, but I've found it useful to proceed by addressing a lmited number of issues.

As for you, exactly what do you mean by writing:
?

-

Well, if you would like to know. Am one among the few Muslims who advocate Islam in the dealings of all applicable areas including politics, economy, education and all you can think about. Just as the West is able to control the ways many think by propaganda, so will a carefully organized Islamic society overtake them suddenly. This may be seen as fanatism in the eyes of the blind. Am tired of empty rhetorics that advocates western supremacy. If you are conversant with the Quran then you will know what am talking about. Nigeria sees most of its problems has corruption, undevelopment of resources and all that. But for Nigeria and other countries wherein Muslim live to succeed, they need to
1. Implement the Sharia.
2. Withdraw from the world's banking system,
3. Establish a new economic platform that doesn't support captialism nor imperalism.
4. Uproot the senators who only know how to steal.
5. Import Muslims with like minds from every aspect including scientists, technologists, educationalists to see that State to the equivalent of any super power.

Things like these take years to materialise but wealthy Muslims who are solely devoted to the works of Allah, and Muslims who know that the way the world is heading isn't right will see these through. Insha Allah.

Frizy:

If I do so?

If you do, then I'll have to ask how you hope to achieve that without carving out a separate Islamic Territory out of Nigeria. If you have any specific comments you wish to share about this, then post them as you wish.

Well, if you would like to know. Am one among the few Muslims who advocate Islam in the dealings of all applicable areas including politics, economy, education and all you can think about.

Thank you for your frankness. Questions for you:
Explain how you advocate Islam in Education.
Explain how you advocate Islam in Economy.
Explain how you advocate Islam in Politics in a state where Muslims are not a majority.

Just as the West is able to control the ways many think by propaganda, so will a carefully organized Islamic society overtake them suddenly.

What do you mean by "the West"`? Be as specific as you can be.
Does "the West" (as you meant it) control how Muslims in Saudi Arabia think?

This may be seen as fanatism in the eyes of the blind. Am tired of empty rhetorics that advocates western supremacy.

No, I don't yet think it is fanaticism, but that's because I don't yet understand what you're advocating. If, for example, you're of the opinion that the United States get out of sacred Arabian soil, as someone well-known has, I don't think that's exceptionally unreasonable; but perhaps you're thinking of more?

If you are conversant with the Quran then you will know what am talking about.

Then you may educate me about this. If you could be more specific, I'll be glad. Perhaps you have some insight that will be useful to me.
.

@Frizy

"He has taught you that which you knew not."
(Qur'an 2:239)
May Allah rain blessings upon you.

Sadly, most people have mixed this traditional thing with Islam, As soon as a girl attains Puberty, she is carted off against her will and they say its religious

@ mukina2
I've not seen this happen in a long time or i would have jumped at the idea and put an humble muslim woman in my house.
Anyway,its not as bad as you've painted it.

What does the Quran say about equality between men and women?

@ayinba
My sister, why this sudden crave for male/female equality?
Am not entirely against it but there are far more important things to live for than for you to brush shoulders with us.

In all, it's an educative thread and i sure have learnt one new thing from every poster.
Keep up the good work!
Jazakum.

@mukina
salam alaykum. How was your ur sallah? Any remnant for the girls?

70% or more of female Muslims are illiterate , but the boys are off to school.

If the parents dies, the males always get more than the females

The right to ask for divorce, at any time without being chastised

I do not entirely agree with the above in your post.

Any where you find that more boys than girls go to school, you'd see that it's cultural rather than Islamic. When the Prophet (saw) said we should seek for knowledge even if it'll take us to China, he didnt specify it to the males. Any where u see more males than females going to school, be sure that not only the muslims in that environment do these but the nonmuslims too.

Have you read the quranic ayah on inheritance? Have you read the tafsir? Do u dispute with these? The right of men to have more (twice the share of female children) is stipulated by Allah, we have no say in that.

A woman can ask for divorce in Islam. Infact it has a particular name different from talaq, cant remember it now. Several women did at the time of the Prophet (saw) and were granted after due deliberations.
It's just that it is highly discouraged but if the woman has a valid reason, the shariah court looks into the matter and judges accordingly.

Islam is a beautiful religion. It has placed women in such a beautiful status that no other religion has placed them. If only we'd see the beauty in Islam, stay within its limits and NEVER try to imitate the west.

@mybad

I needed the quotation from the Quran and mukina2 supplied it. I am content as a woman with what Allah prescribed for me! (It's actually way easier)

@zayhal

I could not have said it better, I'm really lazy though, so thanks!

mybad:

@ mukina2
I've not seen this happen in a long time or i would have jumped at the idea and put an humble muslim woman in my house.
Anyway,its not as bad as you've painted it.

You have not seen it in a while doesnt mean it does not happen, It still happens


Zayhal
yeah Divorce is Talaq

Maybe if you read my post again, you'll have noticed this part

There are lots of misinterpretations and cultural attitude as per what women should and must not do , and about Men being the boss , These things have slowly been mixed with Islam, now most scholars cannot differentiate between what's Islamic and whats cultural

You have not seen it in a while doesnt mean it does not happen, It still happens

@ mukina2
Agreed that it happens.
But in most instances its quite successful.
Save for western civilisation i'm all for arranged marriages.

   "The west make fun of the Islamic way of marriage in particular arranged marriage, yet the irony is that statistically arranged marriages prove to be more successful and lasting than romantic types of courtship.

This is because people are blinded by the physical attraction and thus do not choose the compatible partner.

Love blinds people to potential problems in the relationship. There is an Arabic saying: which says "the mirror of love is blind, it makes zucchini into okra". Arranged marriages on the other hand, are based not on physical attraction or romantic notions but rather on critical evaluation of the compatibility of the couple."

My wife is my partner, i can die for her.



@zayhal- you are right islam is so yummy sweet, on inheritance- Allah is the best of judge, a man get double coz he is the head while the woman is manager, no matter what , the money will still go back to her

@Abuzola

So you're married.

@Mukina
Asalam alaykum, how are you? It's good you brought this thread up again. There's still much to be said on it.

And by the way, where's ayinba?