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Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents - Religion (3) - Nairaland

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by loveroftruth: 6:14am On Jul 04, 2014
We were ask to pray for this by christ himself :

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).


so, this

"Thy kingdom come." Matt 6:10

is equal to this:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2).

And this:

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).

equal to this:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).

Ofcouse, in heaven there is no death, no tears, no sorrows, no crying, np pains, just the will/wish of a loving father for members of his families. So shall it be on earth also.


God's will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 8:01am On Jul 04, 2014
loveroftruth: We were ask to pray for this by christ himself :

"Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).


so, this

"Thy kingdom come." Matt 6:10

is equal to this:

"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." (Revelation 21:2).

And this:

Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).

equal to this:

"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).

Ofcouse, in heaven there is no death, no tears, no sorrows, no crying, np pains, just the will/wish of a loving father for members of his families. So shall it be on earth also.


God's will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. " (Matthew 6:10).

I'm not quite sure of what you are getting at here but one of the things to be put in perspective in looking at Bible verses or passages is CONTEXT.

The body we have now is limited and subject to a number of things. There will be a FUTURE time when those limitations will be removed.

1 Cor 15: 53-54:
"53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."


It is God who WILL work this out in His time. There are some things that are inevitable for now on earth. There are those things the believer HOPES for in eternity. Part if this hope are the things that will be "no more".

God's work in each believer's life is always for his BEST whether 'good' or 'bad'. 16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,( 2 Cor. 4:16,17)

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 8:07am On Jul 04, 2014
^^^
And we believers also groan,
even though we have the Holy Spirit within us as a foretaste of future glory,
for we long for our bodies to be released from sin and suffering.
We, too, wait with eager hope for the day
when God will give us our full rights as his adopted children,
including the new bodies he has promised us.
- Romans 8:23 NLT


17For the suffering of this time, while very small and swift,
prepares us great glory without limits for the eternity of eternities
.
18For we do not rejoice * in those things that are seen,
but in these things that are unseen.
For things seen are time related,
but those things that are unseen are eternal
.
- 2 Corinthians 4:17-18 Aramaic Bible in Plain English


For we know that surely this our bodily house * that is in The Earth will be destroyed;
but there is a building for us that is from God,
a house which is not by the work of hands, in Heaven for eternity
.
- 2 Corinthians 5:1 Aramaic Bible in Plain English


Indeed, we groan while we are in this tent, burdened as we are,
because we do not want to be unclothed but clothed,
so that mortality may be swallowed up by life
.
- 2 Corinthians 5:4 Holman Christian Standard Bible


Contrary to an impression perceived,
the thread is not about "opening up to the fraud and lies in what is called 'Christianity' in churches today" perse
but rather, it is about putting Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents, specifically, under a microscope
It is about examining each of their doctrine
(s) along with putting it's proponents under close scrutiny
It is not, necessarily about the fraud and lies perpetrated in the body of Christ at large
but as explicitly shown or stated by the title of the thread, it is about those of WoF movement.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by loveroftruth: 9:04am On Jul 04, 2014
trustman:

I'm not quite sure of what you are getting at here but one of the things to be put in perspective in looking at Bible verses or passages is CONTEXT.

The body we have now is limited and subject to a number of things. There will be a FUTURE time when those limitations will be removed.

1 Cor 15: 53-54:
"53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
54 When the 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.
54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory."


It is God who WILL work this out in His time. There are some things that are inevitable for now on earth. There are those things the believer HOPES for in eternity. Part if this hope are the things that will be "no more".

God's work in each believer's life is always for his BEST whether 'good' or 'bad'. 16 So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day.
17 For this light momentary affliction is preparing for us an eternal weight of glory beyond all comparison,( 2 Cor. 4:16,17)

On the red ^ above, yes, it is futuristic.
Not now.

Am not in support of those that kept deceiving themselves that they will not fall sick now, but ended up growing old and falling sick and died.

But rather, my argument is to show what the plans of God are:

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Peter 3:13).

It is not my place to add to what is clearly written in the scriptures.

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 9:10am On Jul 04, 2014
loveroftruth:

On the red ^ above, yes, it is futuristic.
Not now.

Am not in support of those that kept deceiving themselves that they will not fall sick now, but ended up growing old and falling sick and died.

But rather, my argument is to show what the plans of God are:

"Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." (2 Peter 3:13).

It is not my place to add to what is clearly written in the scriptures.

^^^

Sorry sir, "...not my place to add to what is clearly written in the scriptures" is neither here or there
(i.e. no one has added or is advocating adding to scriptures)

Inference is not, adding to scripture

Necessary inferenceis an important reasoning tool for believers

It is a perfectly legitimate means of obtaining truth

it is no different to what we normally do most times in our daily lives
in making conclusions reached on the basis of evidence and reasoning

and so “reasonable or necessary inference” is no less valuable
in arriving at biblical conclusions based on biblical evidences (i.e. verses) and reasoning

3 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Goshen360(m): 1:20pm On Jul 04, 2014
The more a Christian stay with and in the word of God, the more the Spirit of truth unveil the lies being sold to such at the childhood of Christian life. Lies are like layers used to cover the truth and freedom of Christ. When these layers of lies are exposed and taken away, the Spirit of truth then opens the eyes of our understanding...of the word. A Childish Christian now becomes a mature Christian who now knows better.

Great job going on here. I don't have time to participate but always reading offline.

New American Standard Bible
Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them;
Ephesians 5:11

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Goshen360(m): 2:11pm On Jul 04, 2014
Scyllapatron: religion serves only one purpose, to enslave humans and prevent them from mental & TRUE spiritual growth.

I'm Goshen360 and I endorse this truth.

#ILoveChristButIHateReligion#

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 9:12pm On Jul 04, 2014
[size=16pt]How Does Healing Come?[/size]

WoF concept of divine health is different from Biblical position of the Christian hope and prayer for divine healing. Again building on the ‘spoken word’ belief and the ‘positive confession’ position, the WoF followers hold on to a point of view that divine health is achieved via those means – their “faith formula”. So anyone who can ‘make the right confessions’, ‘confess health’ or get to the ‘right level of faith’ can rely on and use those means to get his divine health. This differs considerably from the Biblical position that shows healing as coming as a result of petition to God for his divine intervention.

WoF people may claim they are speaking “the word” which presupposes they are using the Bible. However, they are not quite going about it the way the Bible prescribes: And this is a major departure. The Christian is to go to God in prayer soliciting his grace intervention to bring about healing or good health. He must then leave the matter in God’s hands and not try to operate like ‘little gods’, who as masters of their own destiny, try to effect “divine health" by some “faith formula”.

Lets anyone thinks that this WoF position is just ‘made up’, see what Benny Hinn said:
"The Bible declares that the work was done 2,000 years ago. God is not going to heal you now -- he healed you 2,000 years ago. All you have to do today is receive your healing by faith" (Rise and Be Healed, p. 44).
If all you have to do today is “receive your healing by faith” then there is no point in going to God in prayer. We become masters of our fate and take up the issues ourselves. But is that what the Bible teaches – ‘Do it yourself’?

What the Christian’s attitude to seeking divine healing should be is evident from many passages in the Bible, but lets see apostle James’ very clear instructions to the church on the sick:

“Is any among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, … … and the prayer of faith… …” [/b]James 5: 14 – 15
So the way to seek for divine healing is through [b]PRAYER
. How the WoF came up with their own ‘systems’ beats the imagination.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by ihedinobi2: 11:28pm On Jul 04, 2014
BabaGnoni: ^^^
The summary of the above is:

There are primarily, two main types of faith:

1) Faith based exclusively on the word of God (i.e. So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God - Romans 10:17 KJV)
2) Faith based on the word of man or otherwise (i.e. ...everything that does not come from faith is sin - Romans 14:23 NIV)

Apparently "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" is one of Napoleon Hill's regular expression.

Writing about how achievement actually occurs,
and penning a formula for success in reach of the average Joe or Fred Bloggs, were the USP of Napoleon Hill books.

Writing formulas, is a similar trait adopted or used in WoF books such as Hagin's "How to Write Your Own Ticket With God" and other WoF authors out there.

[size=16pt]SUBMISSION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

Interesting thread. The only problem with it is that it isn't meant to edify judging by the animosity on display. I wonder if any of the brothers speaking has thought to stop and imagine whether the same words that they use would have been Jesus's choice were He the one addressing the issue here.

I like the above post although I would modify it to read that there is true Faith and false or counterfeit Faith. That is a very important thing to note, in my opinion. True Faith is all about what God has said and committed Himself to. I think that it would not be out of place to consider that Faith active and able.

False Faith, on the other hand, is all about lust. The focus of those proclamations are on consumption, accummulation, intake. At a particular point in my Walk with the Lord I had to pay attention to the whole Word of Faith issue (part of that period was documented here on Nairaland). At that time, I learned about this difference. False Faith betrays itself by its emphasis. Its emphasis is not on what God has said that He has given or why He has given it but on what the man wants. It tells the man to try to use his psychic energy to bend God or the environment to his will.

Even though this is a clear difference, in the time of need, the two Faiths can blur for the one in need. It would take the Mercy of the Lord and the Work of the Cross to get the needy child of God to actually tell the difference. Here's why it can be hard: God does promise to meet need. This is common to both Faiths. Where the difference begins is in context. In pure and true Faith, God will meet need to satisfy His Purposes. In the False, God will meet need to satisfy man's whims. In other words, it matters why one is asking the boon that he asks of God in one but not in the other.


Going to try to read up all the posts and catch up before joining the conversation fully.

4 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 1:28am On Jul 05, 2014
ihedinobi2:

Interesting thread. The only problem with it is that it isn't meant to edify judging by the animosity on display.
I wonder if any of the brothers speaking has thought to stop
and imagine whether the same words that they use would have been Jesus's choice were He the one addressing the issue here.

I like the above post although I would modify it to read that there is true Faith and false or counterfeit Faith.
That is a very important thing to note, in my opinion.
True Faith is all about what God has said and committed Himself to.
I think that it would not be out of place to consider that Faith active and able.

False Faith, on the other hand, is all about lust. The focus of those proclamations are on consumption, accummulation, intake. At a particular point in my Walk with the Lord I had to pay attention to the whole Word of Faith issue (part of that period was documented here on Nairaland). At that time, I learned about this difference. False Faith betrays itself by its emphasis. Its emphasis is not on what God has said that He has given or why He has given it but on what the man wants. It tells the man to try to use his psychic energy to bend God or the environment to his will.

Even though this is a clear difference, in the time of need, the two Faiths can blur for the one in need. It would take the Mercy of the Lord and the Work of the Cross to get the needy child of God to actually tell the difference. Here's why it can be hard: God does promise to meet need. This is common to both Faiths. Where the difference begins is in context. In pure and true Faith, God will meet need to satisfy His Purposes. In the False, God will meet need to satisfy man's whims. In other words, it matters why one is asking the boon that he asks of God in one but not in the other.

Going to try to read up all the posts and catch up before joining the conversation fully.

^^^
I don't usually do this (i.e. share private interactions)
and I hope it'll be the first and last time doing it
but here's a FYI snippet of a 30th of June private interaction...

- snipped -

...absolutely right on word of faith because without faith, it is impossible to please God‎.
I don't think God has any iota of sympathy for WoF
but rather know and that is a know without a shadow of doubt
that, He, God, absolutely abhors WoF with everything in Him.

WoF is not gospel but, is disaster and bad news.

My brother everyday of our blessed lives, we live by faith.
We go about our businesses in faith, we do our daily runnings in faith, we go to bed, retiring in the night to sleep and in faith hope to wake up.

My brother, what I am trying to say, is that, no one in their sound mind will knock faith,
faith is our currency, it's our medium of exchange with Heaven
but some people knowingly or unknowingly have been trading with fake currencies,
some have been paying out or giving out bounced cheques (i.e. Benny Hinn et al giving people fake healings that bounce)
and when the cheques bounce they retort to it's lack of faith etc... SMH LOL, SMH.

Do you see the predicament we (i.e. I, you, all, the church) are in?‎
Too many duds in circulation, too many bad money exchanging hands,
and sadly not many, are the wiser
...

The real word of faith is not harnessed the way,
nor in the shape or form portrayed by these charlatans otherwise known to all as the WoF movement

##

We don't need to complicate things for ourselves.
Romans 10:17 and what transpired between Jesus and Peter
when Peter walked on the sea of Galilee is an example out of many, of, what is, a true word of faith

We do not need to find that (i.e. no need to find what is a true word of faith)
because Romans 10:17 and Hebrews 11:1 among other verses already tells, identifies and shows us what it is.

We earlier mentioned that "Birth is personal, death is personal, salvation is personal, everything is personal with God"
and so is faith, faith too is personal

Faith is, first personal, before, it cojoins to be mutual faith or corporate faith, that is if at all, it later, becomes corporate/mutual faith

Watch this, it is about the woman with the issue of blood.
Have you ever considered doing an investigation or interrogation,
like probing the "woman with the issue of blood" passage with questions,
like curious to know the circumstances/background behind how she got her Romans 10:17 revelation that spurred her to do her leap of faith,
that made her push her way through the throng of people to perform that touch of faith
My brother, please read Malachi 4:2, and tell me if you spot the correlation

The true word of faith, according to scriptures is valid
<< Yes and it is closer to us more than we know or think.
The just still lives by faith you know! << Yes I know, which is why I said:
My brother everyday of our blessed lives, we live by faith.
We go about our businesses in faith, we do our daily running in faith, we go to bed, retiring in the night to sleep and wake up in faith.
My brother, what I am trying to say, is that, no one in their sound mind will knock faith, faith is our currency
blah de blah de blah

If one doesn't know their bible, if one doesn't know the word, then for that one, it will be impossible to please God
and unlike the woman of the issue of blood or Mary that knew the word, for that one, it will be impossible to have faith
and impossible for that one, then to say:
"Yes, I am a servant of the Lord; let this happen to me according to your word." - Luke 1:38

It's a shame really, that we do shortcut faith, microwave faith, adie-agric faith, effervescence faith, bastardized faith, dud faith, lead balloon faith, counterfeit faith etc


- /snipped -

Is it animosity to "call a spade a spade"?
Is showing a strong dislike now called animosity?

If it were Jesus addressing the issue here, one doubts He'll mince words
Jesus too even will not mollycoddle either

If one wants to be a friend of the world (i.e. want to be civil with them and not hostile to all and what they stand for)
then one makes oneself an enemy of God
Do we not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? (i.e. James 4:4)
No one can serve two masters. Either one will hate the one and love the other (i.e. Matthew 6:24)

One would like to believe that what so far has been written is acceptable
and wouldn't expect any apologies for repeat(s).

5 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by RedReact: 4:12am On Jul 05, 2014
Brother Trustman, you last post is nothing but the truth. WoF has reduced everything to formula, but I don't think any formula was laid out in the Bible and if there were, that must be PRAYER. Besides, many of the things we NAME and CLAIM stems out of desire for things not according to the Will of The Father, although they sound good to have. That is why brethren are becoming more competitive in the church and not bearers of each others' burdens.

On Hebrews 11:1, WoF has told us that Faith is NOW, but that is an erroneous statement. The issue of the NOW FAITH is like commanding The Father to give one something, connoting that one has the perfect understanding of the situations around one's life. Hebrews 11:1 says "NOW, faith is ...", an indication of the fact that the writer put the word NOW as a sequel to what is being discussed before, Hebrews 10.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Goshen360(m): 6:04am On Jul 05, 2014
RedReact: Brother Trustman, you last post is nothing but the truth. WoF has reduced everything to formula, but I don't think any formula was laid out in the Bible and if there were, that must be PRAYER.


If there's any example you're looking for, it is messages like '7 steps' to divine blessings, '14 principles' of wealth, '10 codes' for supernatural breakthroughs etc. Such messages are common with WoF that gives false hopes and deadly poisons and you will find many of such messages with David Oyedepo, Adeboye and their offsprings in places like Nigeria. These are men that copied the lies of the WoF from their oga at the top in the USA and spreading such lies to our dear country. Again, many Christians are rising to the truth and these WoF lies are being exposed.

RedReact:
On Hebrews 11:1, WoF has told us that Faith is NOW, but that is an erroneous statement. The issue of the NOW FAITH is like commanding The Father to give one something, connoting that one has the perfect understanding of the situations around one's life. Hebrews 11:1 says "NOW, faith is ...", an indication of the fact that the writer put the word NOW as a sequel to what is being discussed before, Hebrews 10.

To the highlight above, I say a big AMEN.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 7:56am On Jul 05, 2014
ihedinobi2:

Interesting thread. The only problem with it is that it isn't meant to edify judging by the animosity on display. I wonder if any of the brothers speaking has thought to stop and imagine whether the same words that they use would have been Jesus's choice were He the one addressing the issue here.

Going to try to read up all the posts and catch up before joining the conversation fully.

Morning sir,

Thank you for dropping in and my hope is that you will carry on with us because we are just starting.

On the issue of animosity, the last thread I opened, bearing the same name but lost to Seun's "accident" did generate to animosity and save for the loss of information, I am sometimes thankful that thread was wiped out.

Because of the lessons I learnt from that thread I was determined to ensure that my posts on this one was devoid of animosity. I would however appreciate it if you can refer me to any animosity myself, BabaG and trustman - who for me are the chief discussants on this thread and who anyone coming here should hold responsible for the direction the thread leads. Pls refer us to it and we would either rephrase or explain why the use of such words.

The last thread was the moment of truth for WOF, that theme continues although with a name change. Our hope is that Nigerian Christians will have sufficuent information to work with in serving God. This thread is seeking to provide that.

As for what Jesus would have said today... I can assure you they would not be the kind of diplomatic words we use here: the NT has sufficient documentation of what Jesus said.

4 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 11:52am On Jul 05, 2014
[size=16pt]MY CLOSING WORDS FOR SUBMISSION ON F2: GUARANTEED HEALTH[/size]

A Right Approach To Sickness And Ill-health

None of us wants to be sick. Illness is not just tough on the physical body; it takes its toll on the soul as well. It is therefore not strange that many want to find an escape route for it, no matter what that panacea offered is.

But how is the Christian to approach the issue of sickness & ill-health? First, he must understand that nothing eludes the infinite knowledge of God therefore He knows what is going to happen to every child of His. Secondly, whatever God allows to happen is for a purpose; it is not by “chance” or “accident”. To accept otherwise is to stand on the ground that God is not in control of the believer’s life. In essence such a person is saying that God is either uninterested in what happens to the believer or doesn’t know about certain things that happens to the Christian. That will be putting to question God’s omniscience, omnipotence and love.

In perfect wisdom, God knows why he permits sickness in any believer’s life. Even when the believer, like Job (Job 3:5), does not know, God knows. The believer must therefore rest in the knowledge that God has a reason for what is happening in his life and wants to be glorified through how the believer (like Job did) handles that situation, no matter how tough.

Even when the Christian cannot find reasons why he is faced with sickness or ill-health, he can and should still rest on God’s promises. For example, He has said “Never will I leave you; Never will I forsake you” (Hebrews 13:5). Also this: “Behold, I am with you always … …” (Matthew 28:20) and so many more promises that he can use to stabilize his soul.

In sickness or ill-health the believer should face the situation with courage based on his confidence in God and his promises. He is not to crumble under pressure and seek other solutions not prescribed by the Word of God.

God wants you as a believer, under any circumstance, to “cast all your anxieties on Him, for He cares about you” ( 1 Peter 5:7). God wants the believer to hold his head high and be able to say like Job: “I know that my redeemer lives” (Job 19:25).

No believer should rely on anything in life (including good health) as a source of his happiness. Anything and everything in this world will pass away, but the word of God stands forever: “The grass withers and the flowers fall, but the Word of our God stands forever” (Isaiah Forty verse eight)

The details and circumstances of life are of no consequence. How the believer handles these in the shortness of TIME is what will determine whether (like Job) he wins a tactical victory that will count for greater blessings in endless ETERNITY.

“Therefore we do not lose heart. Though outwardly (physical body) we are wasting away, yet inwardly (soul) we are being renewed day by day. For our light and momentary troubles (suffering, including ill-health) are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all” ( 2 Cor. 4: 16,17).

A world of no ill-health is coming but it’s still in the future:
“And God will wipe away every tear from their (believers’) eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things (including sickness and ill-health) have passed away” (Rev. 21:4)

I REST MY CASE ON F2, FOR NOW.

4 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 12:57pm On Jul 05, 2014
[size=16pt]F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY[/size]

INTRODUCTION
Another teaching of the Word of Faith movement is that Christians have the right to the blessings of wealth/prosperity obtainable through “positive confession” and their other ‘formulas’.

Is the believer’s spiritual wellbeing measured in terms of material welfare, or is wealth always a sign of God’s blessing (since it can be obtained by coercion, deceit or corruption)? On the other hand is poverty or illness or early death, a sign of God’s curse, or lack of faith, or human curses (and can these be proven explicitly from the Bible)?

Is the sovereign grace of God involved in success in life or is it entirely due to our own striving, wrestling, negotiation, or cleverness and use of ‘positive thinking’ and other kinds of ‘self-help’ techniques?

Are the Bible texts used by the WoF done with careful exegesis, or are they seriously distorted, selective, and manipulative? Are many texts twisted out of context and used in ways that contradict some very plain Bible teaching?

These are issues that need looking into in order to see where the WoF positions on them line up with the Scripture.

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 2:20pm On Jul 05, 2014
For F3, I have three exhibits to present to prove that the prosperity theses of WOF is not just a false gospel but the working of the antichrist. They are:

1. The testimony of Femi Aribisala on a leading Redeemed Pastor.
2. The story of Jim Bakker.
3. My summation of it all according to scriptures.

Stay tuned.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 2:32pm On Jul 05, 2014
Before I present this testimony I want to say upfront that I do not agree with everything Femi Aribisala teaches. I think his rejection of Apostle Paul's epistles as inspired scripture is error. Nevertheless what he has to say on a leading RCCG Pastor is ver instructive and there are things to learn from it:

[size=16pt]
THE TESTIMONY OF FEMI ARIBISALA ON J.T. KALEJAIYE

[/size]
I have never seen a man so totally anointed with the raw power of God.

Pastor J.T. Kalejaiye of the Redeemed Christian Church of God might not remember me. But God used him to confirm my healing ministry at its inception. In the late 1990’s, while I was still a member of Victory Parish of Redeemed, Victoria Island, Lagos, Pastor Kalejaiye came to minister on two consecutive days. The pastor revolutionised my understanding of Christian ministry. I have never seen a man so totally anointed with the raw power of God.



Amazing service

I had never heard of Pastor Kalejaiye before that visit. He started the service by taking off his jacket; asking an usherette to keep it for him. But instead of handing it over, he flapped it at her. The lady practically somersaulted and fell to the ground. Kalejaiye then declared that everybody who witnessed that incident was a candidate for a miracle.

He preached a solid message on Abraham and Lot, and I hung on every word. Then, he ministered to the sick. As the power of God identified them dramatically, he would ask them to look into his eyes, or touch the hem of his garment. Immediately they did, they would be slain under the anointing. Some were put to sleep for the entire service. Kalejaiye told us the Holy Spirit was busy conducting surgeries on them.

Sometime during the service, a lady caught his attention. Kalejaiye suddenly took out his handkerchief and threw it at her. Before it reached her, the power of God picked her up and then cushioned her to the floor. Kalejaiye said the Holy Spirit had identified her for healing.

Later, he asked us to hold up our right hands while he asked the Lord to identify those he would anoint with special healing power. Suddenly, my right hand became electrically-charged. Before I knew it, the power of God literally picked me up and flung me unto the empty set of chairs behind me. The ushers quickly carried me to the pastor. I was surprised to discover I was the only person in the entire church who had that particular experience. Kalejaiye asked me what happened. He then confirmed that God had called me to a healing ministry. He said the Lord would use my right hand for mighty signs and wonders. Then he prayed for me.

At the end of the service, I went back home in bewilderment. I asked the Lord: “Is this man your son? Was he using your power or something else?” The Lord replied: “Did he do anything without scriptural foundation?” I could not but agree that nothing he did contradicted what Jesus did in the scriptures. But they were nevertheless astonishing.



Deliverance service

The Sunday service next morning was no less eventful. Pastor Kalejaiye began by asking that anybody suffering from demonic oppression should come out for deliverance. Of course, nobody responded, not wanting to be stigmatised. He then told us to keep quiet while he spoke to God about it. He asked the Lord to identify those concerned by his power.

Suddenly, there was pandemonium in the church. In particular, “big men” in flowing agbadas started screaming at the top of their lungs and spinning like tops. The ushers then carried them to the pastor and he prayed for them. I am unreliably informed that some of those “big men” were so mortified, they insisted Kalejaiye should not be invited back to Victory Parish.

Kalejaiye preached another insightful message. Nevertheless, the highlight of the service was again the manifestation of the power of God. He observed that churches need money in order to operate effectively. Therefore, he asked the ushers for a carton of envelopes. He laid his hands on them and asked for three volunteers to confirm they were now anointed. All they had to do was to pick one of the envelopes.

None succeeded in doing so. As each one of them touched the envelopes, they were instantaneously slain under the anointing. This demonstration certainly made believers out of us. Then, he asked for twelve people who were prepared to give our parish 500,000 naira each. I did not know there were so many rich people in the church. Twice that number made a beeline for the pastor to make the pledges.



Superlative service

I told a friend of mine, Pastor Peter Akalamudo of RCCG, about Pastor Kalejaiye’s outstanding ministry. He too then insisted on inviting him to their Resurrection Parish (Big Tent), in Lekki, Lagos. We went together to see Pastor Kalejaiye at his parish in Idimu, Lagos. When Kalejaiye saw me, he asked me if the signs had started manifesting with my right hand. I told him I had seen nothing yet. He told me not to worry; they would soon commence. He then drew our attention to a curious problem he was dealing with.

People were dumping dead bodies in his church at night, expecting him to raise them from the dead. As a result, he had to bring the matter to the attention of the local police, and was sometimes saddled with the burden of having to bury the dead.

Pastor Kalejaiye accepted Pastor Peter’s invitation, and that service was again exemplary. He preached another sound message, backed by yet another superlative display of the healing power of God. After he had finished his ministration and gone to sit down, Pastor Kalejaiye returned to the podium with one specific request. He asked an usherette to beckon to me. I was in the front row; so I quickly climbed the stage. He asked me to raise my right hand while he prayed for me again. I only heard the beginning of the prayer. There was a loud whoosh and I went down under the anointing.



The denouement

I did not see Pastor Kalejaiye again until ten years later. It was at a “Power-Link Anointing Service” at a Victoria Island, Lagos parish of Redeemed. I wanted to tell him how God had since confirmed his word to me. But I was so disappointed in the service, I decided against it.

The anointing was virtually non-existent. There was now no tangible manifestation of the spirit and power of God. The message was pathetic. It was all about Kalejaiye and not about Jesus. Essentially, he told us how rich he had become. He said he never has anything less than a 200 naira note in his wallet. He said he spends at least 70 days abroad every year. He said if anyone wants to buy a Toyota in his parish, he would personally upgrade it to a Mercedes-Benz.

Indeed, a colleague who attended another service said Kalejaiye claimed he drove past a car-dealership and a car on display called out to him: “Kale, Kale, Kale.” He responded by turning around and driving to the showroom. He then bought the vehicle that allegedly called him, which just happened to be a Hummer; a very expensive American Jeep.

Pastor Kalejaiye ended the service I attended by decreeing we were all going to buy brand-new cars miraculously. He directed we should stretch out our legs and hold the steering-wheels of our imaginary cars. We then turned on the ignitions simultaneously, started the engines and “drove around” in our brand-new cars.

http://www.femiaribisala.com/practical-christianity/231-the-extraordinary-ministry-of-pastor-j-t-kalejaiye

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 2:40pm On Jul 05, 2014
[size=16pt]THE RISE AND FALL OF JIM BAKKER[/size]

Remember Jim Bakker? Countless people do. However, if you are too young to know about Bakker and the scandal that befell him (not so different from Tiger Woods), you really need to inform yourself. A good place to start is the Wikipedia article which can be found at this link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Bakker

As a teenager, I was an occasional viewer of the Praise the Lord broadcast during the 1970s and as a college student in early 1980s. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were the first televangelists I can really remember, although they did follow in the footsteps of Oral Roberts and others.

I grew up in a town just three hours from Heritage USA — the Bakker’s massive complex. Here’s an excerpt from the Wikipedia article that describes it:

By the early 1980s the Bakkers had built Heritage USA in Fort Mill, South Carolina (south of Charlotte), then the third most successful theme park in the U.S., and a satellite system to distribute their network 24 hours a day across the country. Contributions requested from viewers were estimated to exceed $1 million a week, with proceeds to go to expanding the theme park and mission of PTL.

I must admit that I was skeptical about the Bakkers at the time. It seemed to be only about MONEY, MONEY, MONEY!!! Interestingly, Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker were co-founders of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, (TBN), along with Paul and Jan Crouch. Who knew that TBN would team up with charismatic preachers to promote what would become known as “The Prosperity Gospel”…

Here’s what I consider to be the most important information in the Wiki article on Jim Bakker:

Bakker has renounced his past teachings on prosperity theology, they were wrong. In his 1996 book, I Was Wrong, he admitted that the first time he actually read the Bible all the way through was in prison, and that it made him realize he had taken certain passages out of context – passages which he had used as “proof texts” to back up his prosperity teachings. He wrote:

“The more I studied the Bible, however, I had to admit that the prosperity message did not line up with the tenor of Scripture. My heart was crushd to think that I led so many people astray. I was appalled that I could have been so wrong, and I was deeply grateful that God had not struck me dead as a false prophet.”


It’s fascinating to listen to today’s prosperity preachers and remember that Jim Bakker was probably more prominent and more respected than they. Oh, how the mighty can fall!!!

At the age of 49, Jim Bakker was sentenced to a 45 year prison term. He was truly a broken man. As the Wiki article explains, Bakker served a five year prison term and then was released. It seems God used those difficult years to teach Jim Bakker about “true Christianity”.

Jim Bakker Reveals the Truth About the Prosperity Gospel! Part 2:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYb6umBZxZA

http://thewartburgwatch.com/2010/01/14/jim-bakker-renounces-the-prosperity-gospel-as-a-lie/

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 4:56pm On Jul 05, 2014
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL[/size]

Sometimes I think have written too much on the prosperity gospel but at the same time I feel I have not said enough. Recently I was discussing with a Christian brother about church doctrines generally. When I told him I do not believe in a gospel of prosperity he was taken aback. He agreed that the flamboyance and boast many prosperity Gospellers display is wrong but that God wants us to be rich. I told him it was not true but a lie of the devil. I am convinced now that the way satan plans these lies is to start believers off to thinking there is nothing wrong with riches and that they can pursue it all they like.

The truth is that the term “prosperity gospel” did not originate from the Word of Faith preachers; rather it came from their critics. However, in their bid to prove their veracity, many WOF adherents agree that the gospel they believe and preach is actually a prosperity gospel. This is an admission that is good in itself because the moment they can see that these teaching are actually anti-Christ, they would desist from them.

I would leave the biblical exegesis on why the prosperity gospel is wrong to others to do (and I might be led to do some later too) but for this post, I will remove quotes from two important letter I wrote in my life recently. One of the letters is titled “Letter to My Pastor(s)”. This was a letter I wrote to leaders of a former church I attended. In it I spoke about the effect of the prosperity gospel on the Christian church in Nigeria. The second letter is titled “My Concern for all the Churches”. This was a letter I delivered to the leadership of the church I presently I attend. In that letter I gave a little background to what I believe is a prosperity gospel. I will quote the latter letter first.

From “My Concern for all the Churches”:


The Prosperity Gospel in Nigerian Churches

Before we can understand the prosperity gospel we must understand it roots. The gospel of prosperity teaches that health and wealth are the “rights” of Christians today, and that if Christians are not healthy and wealthy there is something essentially wrong with their faith. This teaching finds its origin in the Word of Faith movement for which the late Kenneth Hagin is believed to be the originator. Careful research has shown that Kenneth Hagin is not actually the “founder” of this teaching. Hagin himself was influenced by E. W. Kenyon, who himself was influenced by Phinehas Quimby, a 19th century New Thought teacher.

The New Thought doctrine is one that teaches that human beings can have control over the outcome of their lives (they need not depend on God). And that through metaphysical exercises, mind control and positive speaking, human beings can control “forces” in the world to bring good health, wealth and success into their lives. New Thought teachings are essentially the doctrine the Christian Science sect teach also. The New Thought Movement has since dissociated itself from the bible. This is the root of Kenneth Hagin’s teachings except that he would later base these New Thought teachings on the bible especially Mark 11:24.

Until his death a few years ago, Kenneth Hagin enjoyed great success in ministry with many preachers from third world countries being influenced by his books, meetings and bible school. Today, most churches with one man as president and founder, in Nigeria, have Hagin and his sort of ministry as their example. Kenneth Hagin himself never taught full blown prosperity messages but his teaching centered on man and his well being, contrary to the teaching of the bible that was about God and his eternal purposes for all humanity. These doctrines on man and his well being are what have metamorphosed into what we know as prosperity teachings today. They are the doctrines taught in charismatic churches around the world today. We only need to listen to radio jingles from churches to prove this.

The churches that have not been directly influenced by the prosperity gospel in Nigeria are the churches that some disparage as “orthodox”. Churches like the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Communion, Methodist Church, Baptist Church, Seventh Day Adventists, Church of Christ, etc. These churches became “insulated” from these teachings on prosperity because their preachers would usually go through a well designed theological curriculum that ensured that what is taught to the people is what is “orthodox” and not something new and enticing. But it has been discovered that even some of these so called orthodox churches are becoming influenced by the prosperity message.

When we realize that most of the churches that spring up today, with one man coming with a certain “call” to ministry, do not have their preachers undergoing any kind of theological training, we understand better why they become susceptible to these new teachings. At the moment in Nigeria, there is some sort of pandemic because churches are outdoing each other to “open” new branches in a frenzied measure to build network of churches. So that when one goes into a neighborhood, we could find as much churches around as we have residences. And in each of these churches we find untrained men teaching people a so called “gospel”.

When you listen carefully to what is being taught we discover that they are telling of a certain “good news”; news that say God has promised us health and wealth. When the message is compared to the message of the bible, especially the New Testament that was written for our instruction in this dispensation, we realize that there is a great deal of difference. Further investigation into why there are churches proliferating the society reveals that it is all for pecuniary gain.

From “Letters to my Pastors”:

Prosperity Gospel


This is what David Prior, an Anglican Vicar, wrote on the prosperity teaching in his book, Bedrock(1985):

[b]There is a growing welter of teaching in certain circles who reject (the doctrine of shame and suffering in the gospel). Success, health, happiness, prosperity are all seen as expected rights for the children of God’s kingdom. This prosperity-teaching gains numerous adherents precisely because it panders to our lower nature. It represents what we want to hear, not what we need to hear. It appeals to two kinds of Christian in particular – to those who enjoy a fairly affluent standard of living and need to rationalize or justify it; and it has understandable attraction for those who have been deprived of life’s good things and feel they deserve a better deal. When we realize that most Christians are included within these two groupings, we can appreciate the popularity of such teaching. I know this to be true because I know my own heart.

When I am going through the mill, or have for some time been bearing considerable strain on behalf of others, my lower nature screams to me: “You deserve a break; you have earned it” so my own heart panders to my pride: I think I have worked hard enough to merit God’s blessing in some tangible way. Instead of responding with the attitude commanded, not just commended, by Jesus – “we have only done our duty” – I hold my good deeds up before God and effectively tell him to give me a break, a bonus or a blessing. It does not require much insight to recognize this as a thinly-disguised form of self-interest. Its most serious aspect, however, is the way it undercuts the very foundation of the Gospel of God’s grace. At no stage do we deserve anything from God; everything we have is a gift of his love, completely undeserved. From beginning to end, from our justification to our glorification, we depend on the grace of God who, out of his great love and mercy, constantly loads us with daily benefits.
[/b]
I took my time to quote this man because this brief thought on the danger of prosperity gospel liberated me from its shackles. I would later read Prosperity and the Coming Apocalypse by Jim Baker, a former prosperity proponent whom God allowed to serve time in prison and then came out to tell the world that all he had been preaching for some 25 years was wrong. The Heritage Village Baker built in the United States cannot be compared to anything our mega churches are building today whether they be at the Redeemed Camp, The Deeper Life Camp Ground, or Canaan Land. It took Baker a long time to realize that God did not call him to build structures but men’s lives through the teaching of the grace of God.

Whenever Bishop Elomobor comes to (this Church) I am deeply grieved. And I have made up my mind that when he comes next, I would not be in the service that day (I understand I would not be missed). Is there nobody alive to remind this man that this was the same path Archbishop Benson Idahosa walked into his grave? If Pastor ----- thinks this man is a man worth hearing, why does he not teach and practice everything he does? The first time I listened to him, he went on and on about how he used to preach for Cecilia Ibru and other top business moguls. The next thing we heard was that this woman had been arrested and jailed for corrupt practices in the bank she owned. On the Bishop’s subsequent visit, he did not make reference to that, rather it was now time to explain how he dines and wines with those in the seat of power: escorting the Vice-president to the US and such like.

Today, the government of Goodluck Jonathan is going down in history as the most corrupt in our nation’s history. I concluded the last time I heard him that Bishop Elemobor is a Balaam, a disobedient prophet, who will do well to heed the donkey’s voice or his end will not be any different from that of that prophet of scripture. Most people will say prosperity teachers are the likes of David Oyedepo and Ayo Oritsejafor but the truth is that most Pentecostal preachers are prosperity gospellers. When the doctrine of God’s grace as exemplified by the death of Jesus to secure a sure salvation for Christians is belittled to getting healed and succeeding in life, such a preacher no matter how conservative they may seem is a prosperity gospeller. And that is why no one dares criticize them in our churches today, so as not be seen as blaspheming God.

The gospel of Jesus tells us of what Christ did for us on the cross, how we obtained an eternal salvation from it, how we must look forward to a sure and certain kingdom to come, how this thoughts must engender a grateful spirit within us shown forth in worship and holy living, and how we must trust God as our Father for our day by day living, which would include provision and the meeting of our needs. It is when the latter, that should be preached as extra benefits i.e. jara , is taught as the central gospel a church must know, then we regard such preachers as prosperity gospellers. They claim to bring good news but the good news has only benefit in this life and little or no benefit for the life to come.

That is why in my message to the Prayer team and hospital ministry I explained that while the prosperity gospel was false doctrine, the true doctrine, that of Eternal Security (The Perseverance of the Saints), is the real prosperity God has secured for us. I hinged Eternal Security on four doctrines, that of Justification, Election, Predestination, and Eternal Life (Refer to the added notes). Personally, understanding of those doctrines liberated me spiritually and that is why one can hold the things of these world lightly, while looking up to those things which are above.

END.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 5:12pm On Jul 05, 2014
^^^

Wow!
This is "kayefi" - it is mind boggling
It's really off the chain!

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by PastorKun(m): 7:28pm On Jul 05, 2014
@trustman, drummaboy & babagnoni
Keep up the good work, really insightful and revealings posts going on in this thread.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 7:40pm On Jul 05, 2014
Pastor Kun:
@trustman, drummaboy & babagnoni
Keep up the good work, really insightful and revealings posts going on in this thread.

Thank you Pastor Kun

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 7:57pm On Jul 05, 2014
BabaGnoni: ^^^
!

Thank you. Thank you... wink
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 6:04am On Jul 06, 2014
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY[/size]

INTRODUCTION

We will put the famous and favorite verse (i.e. 3 John:2) WoF likes to use under the microscope,
we will zero the microscope's lens on to
"...may prosper..."
we will zoom in on it to find out whether or not "...may prosper..." has anything at all to do with wealth
(i.e. we will cross check with the original Greek render)

We should be able to find out if 3 John:2, is interpreted out of context or not

Is 3 John:2, a private prayer or wish of riches for the person mentioned in the verse
or is it a public and authoritative promise of wealth or riches for all Christians


It is hoped that after all the F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY submissions, we all (i.e. posters and readers) would have learned a thing or two, would have become wiser and be:

- able to see why this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is by the perpetrators.
- able to see who mainly & primarily benefits from this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine when taught the way it is
- able to see what happens (e.g. disappointments) and it often does happen, when this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is
- able to see how dangerous or damaging (e.g. the dark hidden or unsuspecting dangers) this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine can be when taught the way it is
- able to see the hidden agenda (i.e. the ulterior motives) behind this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine, as it is taught the way it is
- able to see the ridiculous (e.g. Leroy Thompson's "Money Cometh to Me Now" tasteless pulpit display) that this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine breeds especially when taught the way it is
- able to see who are the winners and losers of the "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine
- above all, able to see, what REALLY is God's will for us concerning "...above all..."
(i.e. with verses like Jeremiah 29:11, 1 Peter 4:8, Colossians 3:14, Matthew 7:12-14 and 1 John 3:10)

https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24511648

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 8:38am On Jul 06, 2014
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by PastorKun(m): 10:36am On Jul 06, 2014
DrummaBoy: Before I present this testimony I want to say upfront that I do not agree with everything Femi Aribisala teaches. I think his rejection of Apostle Paul's epistles as inspired scripture is error. Nevertheless what he has to say on a leading RCCG Pastor is ver instructive and there are things to learn from it:

[size=16pt]
THE TESTIMONY OF FEMI ARIBISALA ON J.T. KALEJAIYE

[/size]
I have never seen a man so totally anointed with the raw power of God.

Pastor J.T. Kalejaiye of the Redeemed Christian Church of God might not remember me. But God used him to confirm my healing ministry at its inception. In the late 1990’s, while I was still a member of Victory Parish of Redeemed, Victoria Island, Lagos, Pastor Kalejaiye came to minister on two consecutive days. The pastor revolutionised my understanding of Christian ministry. I have never seen a man so totally anointed with the raw power of God.



Amazing service

I had never heard of Pastor Kalejaiye before that visit. He started the service by taking off his jacket; asking an usherette to keep it for him. But instead of handing it over, he flapped it at her. The lady practically somersaulted and fell to the ground. Kalejaiye then declared that everybody who witnessed that incident was a candidate for a miracle.

He preached a solid message on Abraham and Lot, and I hung on every word. Then, he ministered to the sick. As the power of God identified them dramatically, he would ask them to look into his eyes, or touch the hem of his garment. Immediately they did, they would be slain under the anointing. Some were put to sleep for the entire service. Kalejaiye told us the Holy Spirit was busy conducting surgeries on them.

Sometime during the service, a lady caught his attention. Kalejaiye suddenly took out his handkerchief and threw it at her. Before it reached her, the power of God picked her up and then cushioned her to the floor. Kalejaiye said the Holy Spirit had identified her for healing.

Later, he asked us to hold up our right hands while he asked the Lord to identify those he would anoint with special healing power. Suddenly, my right hand became electrically-charged. Before I knew it, the power of God literally picked me up and flung me unto the empty set of chairs behind me. The ushers quickly carried me to the pastor. I was surprised to discover I was the only person in the entire church who had that particular experience. Kalejaiye asked me what happened. He then confirmed that God had called me to a healing ministry. He said the Lord would use my right hand for mighty signs and wonders. Then he prayed for me.

At the end of the service, I went back home in bewilderment. I asked the Lord: “Is this man your son? Was he using your power or something else?” The Lord replied: “Did he do anything without scriptural foundation?” I could not but agree that nothing he did contradicted what Jesus did in the scriptures. But they were nevertheless astonishing.



Deliverance service

The Sunday service next morning was no less eventful. Pastor Kalejaiye began by asking that anybody suffering from demonic oppression should come out for deliverance. Of course, nobody responded, not wanting to be stigmatised. He then told us to keep quiet while he spoke to God about it. He asked the Lord to identify those concerned by his power.

Suddenly, there was pandemonium in the church. In particular, “big men” in flowing agbadas started screaming at the top of their lungs and spinning like tops. The ushers then carried them to the pastor and he prayed for them. I am unreliably informed that some of those “big men” were so mortified, they insisted Kalejaiye should not be invited back to Victory Parish.

Kalejaiye preached another insightful message. Nevertheless, the highlight of the service was again the manifestation of the power of God. He observed that churches need money in order to operate effectively. Therefore, he asked the ushers for a carton of envelopes. He laid his hands on them and asked for three volunteers to confirm they were now anointed. All they had to do was to pick one of the envelopes.

None succeeded in doing so. As each one of them touched the envelopes, they were instantaneously slain under the anointing. This demonstration certainly made believers out of us. Then, he asked for twelve people who were prepared to give our parish 500,000 naira each. I did not know there were so many rich people in the church. Twice that number made a beeline for the pastor to make the pledges.



Superlative service

I told a friend of mine, Pastor Peter Akalamudo of RCCG, about Pastor Kalejaiye’s outstanding ministry. He too then insisted on inviting him to their Resurrection Parish (Big Tent), in Lekki, Lagos. We went together to see Pastor Kalejaiye at his parish in Idimu, Lagos. When Kalejaiye saw me, he asked me if the signs had started manifesting with my right hand. I told him I had seen nothing yet. He told me not to worry; they would soon commence. He then drew our attention to a curious problem he was dealing with.

People were dumping dead bodies in his church at night, expecting him to raise them from the dead. As a result, he had to bring the matter to the attention of the local police, and was sometimes saddled with the burden of having to bury the dead.

Pastor Kalejaiye accepted Pastor Peter’s invitation, and that service was again exemplary. He preached another sound message, backed by yet another superlative display of the healing power of God. After he had finished his ministration and gone to sit down, Pastor Kalejaiye returned to the podium with one specific request. He asked an usherette to beckon to me. I was in the front row; so I quickly climbed the stage. He asked me to raise my right hand while he prayed for me again. I only heard the beginning of the prayer. There was a loud whoosh and I went down under the anointing.



The denouement

I did not see Pastor Kalejaiye again until ten years later. It was at a “Power-Link Anointing Service” at a Victoria Island, Lagos parish of Redeemed. I wanted to tell him how God had since confirmed his word to me. But I was so disappointed in the service, I decided against it.

The anointing was virtually non-existent. There was now no tangible manifestation of the spirit and power of God. The message was pathetic. It was all about Kalejaiye and not about Jesus. Essentially, he told us how rich he had become. He said he never has anything less than a 200 naira note in his wallet. He said he spends at least 70 days abroad every year. He said if anyone wants to buy a Toyota in his parish, he would personally upgrade it to a Mercedes-Benz.

Indeed, a colleague who attended another service said Kalejaiye claimed he drove past a car-dealership and a car on display called out to him: “Kale, Kale, Kale.” He responded by turning around and driving to the showroom. He then bought the vehicle that allegedly called him, which just happened to be a Hummer; a very expensive American Jeep.

Pastor Kalejaiye ended the service I attended by decreeing we were all going to buy brand-new cars miraculously. He directed we should stretch out our legs and hold the steering-wheels of our imaginary cars. We then turned on the ignitions simultaneously, started the engines and “drove around” in our brand-new cars.

http://www.femiaribisala.com/practical-christianity/231-the-extraordinary-ministry-of-pastor-j-t-kalejaiye

This Pastor Kalejaiye's story is reflective of most leaading pentecostal churches in Nigeria. They mostly started out well with good intentions but derailed along the line due mainly to monetization of the gospel which is now very prevalent in pentecostal churches.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Goshen360(m): 11:51am On Jul 06, 2014
BabaGnoni: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY[/size]
INTRODUCTION
We will put the famous and favorite verse (i.e. 3 John:2) WoF likes to use under the microscope,
we will zero the microscope's lens on to
"...may prosper..."
we will zoom in on it to find out whether or not "...may prosper..." has anything at all to do with wealth
(i.e. we will cross check with the original Greek render)
We should be able to find out if 3 John:2, is interpreted out of context or not
Is 3 John:2, a private prayer or wish of riches for the person mentioned in the verse
or is it a public and authoritative promise of wealth or riches for all Christians

It is hoped that after all the F3: WEALTH/PROSPERITY submissions, we all (i.e. posters and readers) would have learned a thing or two, would have become wiser and be:
- able to see why this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is by the perpetrators.
- able to see who mainly & primarily benefits from this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine when taught the way it is
- able to see what happens (e.g. disappointments) and it often does happen, when this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine is taught the way it is
- able to see how dangerous or damaging (e.g. the dark hidden or unsuspecting dangers) this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine can be when taught the way it is
- able to see the hidden agenda (i.e. the ulterior motives) behind this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine, as it is taught the way it is
- able to see the ridiculous (e.g. Leroy Thompson's "Money Cometh to Me Now" tasteless pulpit display) that this perverse "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine breeds especially when taught the way it is
- able to see who are the winners and losers of the "WEALTH/PROSPERITY" doctrine
- above all, able to see, what REALLY is God's will for us concerning "...above all..."
(i.e. with verses like Jeremiah 29:11, 1 Peter 4:8, Colossians 3:14, Matthew 7:12-14 and 1 John 3:10)

Ogbeni, o ti finish awon ara'biyi o pelu breakdown\outline yi o. You nefa start exposition on that verse self, people (like me and many readers) don understand....by the Spirit.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by ihedinobi2: 12:24pm On Jul 06, 2014
@BabaGnoni
@DrummaBoy

Can any of you give me some examples of places where Jesus was "naming and shaming" Pharisees and religious leaders of His day? Can any of you explain how and why He accepted their invitations to their homes and their hospitality and their own personal visits to Him? Can any of you show me parallels between what you're doing and what He did in His day?



@topic

A lot has been and is being said and I find the thread a bit too tedious to read. I think I'll take things in bite sizes.

To start with, let me warn everyone who will judge my responses to be very conscious of my first post on this thread.

Now, I have one question: Is it biblical to speak to the situations and circumstances that you face and command them to fit a pattern? Or rather, how does the Bible tell us to deal with the adverse circumstances of our lives?

Edit: if this question has been answered in any form on this thread already, a quote or reference to the particular post where it was answered will do. You need not repeat yourself. If the post is a long one, a quote containing the answer, that is, a culling of the portion containing the answer, would be far more appreciated than a link or a quote of the whole post.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 2:01pm On Jul 06, 2014
ihedinobi2:
@BabaGnoni
@DrummaBoy

Can any of you give me some examples of places where Jesus was "naming and shaming" Pharisees and religious leaders of His day?
Can any of you explain how and why He accepted their invitations to their homes and their hospitality and their own personal visits to Him?
Can any of you show me parallels between what you're doing and what He did in His day?

@topic

A lot has been and is being said and I find the thread a bit too tedious to read. I think I'll take things in bite sizes.

To start with, let me warn everyone who will judge my responses to be very conscious of my first post on this thread.

Now, I have one question: Is it biblical to speak to the situations and circumstances that you face and command them to fit a pattern?
Or rather, how does the Bible tell us to deal with the adverse circumstances of our lives?


Edit: if this question has been answered in any form on this thread already, a quote or reference to the particular post where it was answered will do. You need not repeat yourself. If the post is a long one, a quote containing the answer, that is, a culling of the portion containing the answer, would be far more appreciated than a link or a quote of the whole post.

^^^
Sir, first and foremost, as much as your contributions are highly regarded on the Religion forum
one would like to believe that you are not advocating SHIELDING and PROTECTING personalities
or protecting sacred cows considered to be exempt from criticism or questioning
as opposed to PROTECTING the body of Christ (i.e. church) and her chastity
from the abuse, misuse and pummeling
by whoever the caps fits

Should the body not be warned that some have built their ministries with gold and silver (e.g. from obtaining pecuniary advantages/other people's money by deception), costly stones (e.g. building big and lavish auditoriums, TV ministries), wood, hay or straw (e.g. publishing literature, books, magazine, newsletters)

The bible gives us the authority to shun them, to not welcome them,
not even to welcome them in our homes via internet, satellite, TV, literature, DVD
/CD/Videos etc
It says, if one welcomes "invitations to their homes and their hospitality and their own personal visits" one shares in their wicked work

These are a few of what the Word advises:

Have nothing to do with the useless works that darkness produces.
Instead, expose them for what they are

- Ephesians 5:11 GOD'S WORD Translation


10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take them into your house or welcome them.
11Anyone who welcomes them shares in their wicked work.
2 John:10-11 NIV

6 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by ihedinobi2: 3:57pm On Jul 06, 2014
^^ My questions are rather simple, bro.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 4:00pm On Jul 06, 2014
ihedinobi2 @BabaGnoni
@DrummaBoy

Can any of you give me some examples of places where Jesus was "naming and shaming" Pharisees and religious leaders of His day?
Matthew 23: 29 - 33 "Woe to you, experts in the law and you Pharisees, hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have participated with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 By saying this you testify against yourselves that you are descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up then the measure of your ancestors! 33 You snakes, you offspring of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?"
Luke 13:32 "But he said to them, “[size=14pt]Go and tell that fox[/size], ‘Look, I am casting out demons and performing healings today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will complete my work."


Can any of you explain how and why He accepted their invitations to their homes and their hospitality and their own personal visits to Him?
See Luke 7:36 -50

Can any of you show me parallels between what you're doing and what He did in His day?
see Matthew 23:1 - 36

@topic

A lot has been and is being said and I find the thread a bit too tedious to read. I think I'll take things in bite sizes.

To start with, let me warn everyone who will judge my responses to be very conscious of my first post on this thread.

Now, I have one question: Is it biblical to speak to the situations and circumstances that you face and command them to fit a pattern? Or rather, how does the Bible tell us to deal with the adverse circumstances of our lives?

if this question has been answered in any form on this thread already, a quote or reference to the particular post where it was answered will do. You need not repeat yourself. If the post is a long one, a quote containing the answer, that is, a culling of the portion containing the answer, would be far more appreciated than a link or a quote of the whole post.
No.
Pray - see Mark 6:46, Mark 13:18, Luke 5:16, Luke 6: 12, John 17: 9, Romans1: 10, 2 Cor. 13:7, Ephesians 1:16, Ephesians 6:18, Colossians 1:3, Hebrews 5:7, James 5:13,14,
Claim promises.

3 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 4:08pm On Jul 06, 2014
ihedinobi2:

^^ My questions are rather simple, bro.

OK Sir, your questions rather might be simple
but consider for a moment, one might be slow on the uptake here


With all due respects sir, ignoring the fact that you didn't acknowledge the contents raised in the other post(s) above us,
please, can you now explicitly, clearly, directly and in simple words, state what exactly your grouse, so far, on the thread is about

Sir, please SPELL OUT in no uncertain terms what so far has been unacceptable on this thread
so that it could be put under consideration towards correcting

Furthermore sir, clearly advise how you would like future postings to take form or submitted

And also explain sir, what you mean by
"Is it biblical to speak to the situations and circumstances that you face and command them to fit a pattern?
Or rather, how does the Bible tell us to deal with the adverse circumstances of our lives
?"

Who are "facing circumstances and commanding them to fit a pattern"
or who is "how does the Bible tell us to deal with the adverse circumstances of our lives" about
(i.e. what or who are you insinuating this with)

Sir, your experiences and knowledge which you've kindly shared with all on the Religion forum have always been appreciated.

Thank you in advance for your anticipated replies sir

PS: Seems the thread is intentionally slow with steady and smooth paceline transitions,
this is likely so readers can keep up with it

1 Like

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