Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents - Religion (25) - Nairaland
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| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 11:00pm On Sep 28, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F15: Fee paying crusades or seminars[/size] “Thus says the LORD concerning the prophets … its priest teach for a price; its prophets practice divination for money; yet they lean on the LORD and say, “Is not the LORD in the midst of us?” - Micah 3: 5a, 11 Ever Heard of Simony? We go back in history to the late 14th century AD. The Roman Catholic Church held sway in Europe. The word of the Pope was supreme. He also had control of the political machinery of the day. Priests were well-fed, had plenty of money and lived a life of luxury, even by the standards of those days. Money was a major focus of the church of those days. Then comes a young man who, because of his attraction for respect and wealth of the priesthood, entered into the priesthood. His name is John Hus. Hus completed his masters degree and taught at the university when he came across the works of John Wycliffe, a reformer of previous years who had questioned the stand of the Catholic church on different issues. In the course of his study of these writings and the Word of God he came to realize that many things were wrong with the established church of the day. The priests charged money for a number of the ‘ministerial services’ they rendered to people. Hus reprimanded them for this because he believed the clergy owed it a spiritual duty of their pastoral office they held. He branded those who charged fees for these services as “unscriptural” pointing out that Jesus never did so. He rose up and spoke against them, and one of such things he stood against was the matter of SIMONY – being in the ministry for money, material acquisition and status. He was quoted to have said: “There is no estate in Christendom more liable to fall ….Therefore, everyone who runs after and strives for that dignity on account of material gain or wordly eminence is guilty of simony.” Simony, then, refers to the sin of paying for sacraments and holy offices or for influence or positions in the hierarchy of a church, or other forms of trafficking for money in “spiritual things”. The word was coined from the name of Simon the magician, who in the Acts of the Apostles 8:9-24, offered apostles Peter and John money so that anyone on whom he would place his hands upon would receive the power of the Holy Spirit. [b]“But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 10 They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, “This man is the power of God that is called Great.” 11 And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 12 But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. 14 Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15 who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” 24 And Simon answered, “Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.” [/b] Now, lets fast-forward into our time; the 21st century. The present day ‘ministers’ of the WoF’ extraction fall into the same category as these priests of the 14th century. In fact, does the Micah passage above look like something that happened in BC or a description of what is happening today? WoF leaders blaze the trail. They charge admission fee for services. Joel Osteen, for example, argues that the reason for charging money for people to hear God’s word (?) is “crowd control and convenience”. Of course what is very convenient is that not much money, if any at all, will leave the ministry’s bank account to pay for rented facilities for those services. Money from the entry fee will certainly take care of that. His image as a high-profile preacher attracts crowd and he definitely wants to capitalize on that to his advantage. One wonders how in the days of high-tech such a ministry can’t find better ways of reaching its audience for better “crowd control”. Here in Nigeria The ‘everyday Christian here in Nigeria’ cannot claim to be unaware of ‘MoG’ here who have bought into this same idea. The following is part of a report carried by PM News of one of such fee paying events by a church right here in Nigeria: Christ Embassy: Worshippers Pay N1,000 To Enter Oyakhilome’s Church Story by Simon Ateba - PM News. Christ Embassy Church in Lagos, South-West Nigeria, is being turned into show business as members were made to part with N1, 000 each as gate fee before they could enter their church to attend the New Year’s Eve service, P.M.NEWS can reveal. P.M.NEWS confirmed that only members who could afford the N1, 000 gate fee were allowed into the premises of Christ Embassy Headquarters at Oregun, Lagos, where self-styled cleric and business man, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome, preached on 31 December 2010. Indigent members who could not afford the N1, 000 tickets, were denied access and sent back by security men at the gate, it was learnt. The church, a source said, realised about N25 million from about 25, 000 members who bought the tickets. It was gathered that the church informed its members that it decided to impose a gate fee to control the huge crowd that always besiege the church on the New Year’s Eve church service. “Pastor said that to control the crowd and only allow genuine members who could do anything to be in church, it was good to pay a gate fee. Last year for instance, even senior pastors in the church could not secure a seat in the church on New Year’s Eve service,” our source said. The ticket, bought by our correspondent, was still on sale today, five days after the New Year’s church service took place. A copy of the ticket has the following information printed on it: “one service…different locations worldwide impact! Time: 7 pm, Venue: Loveworld Convocation Arena, N1,000, December 31st New Year’s Eve Service With Pastor Chris.” There is also a bold picture of Oyakhilome wearing one of his flashy suits. On the background there is a huge crowd in adulation of the man who once boasted that he will never be broke in life. *** End of Report *** So what has changed since the 14th century when men like Martin Luther literarily fought the established church over such things as these – charging money to deliver spiritual things to the people? Martin Luther is said to have said: “In Rome, they sell everything. They would sell the Father, and sell the Son, and sell the Holy Ghost.” Are we getting back to that era? Any money back guarantee? By the way, when people are made to pay for church services or seminars will they have the option of getting their money back if there expectations are not met? I wonder, I just wonder. I think though that if churches want to run like commercial enterprises then the ‘consumers’ of their services should be entitled to having their expectations met, failing which a refund is made. What is Christ’s view about the place of money in dissemination of the Gospel? The Gospel records Jesus Christ attitude toward materialism and his dealings with religious leaders who were fleecing people in the name of God. His encounter with money changers in the temple area is a classic example of how he views those who fleece the sheep in the name of religion. He was clear when he said in Matthew 10: 7-8: “And proclaim as you go, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse lepers, cast out demons. You received without paying; give without pay.” Churches and ministries ought to always strive to follow in the steps of the master. Conclusion God provided salvation and its attendant blessings free of charge to us. The apostles proclaimed the gospel for free and without charge. Expression of the grace of God should be evident in what any ministry does. Ministries should therefore work within their resources to ensure that their programs are not turned into fee-paying events that end up not reflecting God’s grace that has been richly poured out to the church. I REST MY CASE ON F15, FOR NOW 5 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 5:37pm On Sep 29, 2014 |
There is a good reason I don't buy this Cabbalistic/names mysticism; names mattered nothing in the Primitive/Early church. Romans perhaps contains the most number of First Century believers by name. Observe Paul sending some shout-outs. The name Hermes sticks out because that is a believer right there with the name of a Greek god, son of Zeus! [b]Romans 16:3-14 King James Version (KJV) 3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. 5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my well-beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 6 Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us. 7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me. 8 Greet Amplias my beloved in the Lord. 9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved. 10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' household. 11 Salute Herodion my kinsman. Greet them that be of the household of Narcissus, which are in the Lord. 12 Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. 13 Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine. 14 Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them.[/b] Do we have a history of Gentile/Pagan-Christian converts changing their names? I mean outside the scriptures. None. Or was paganism and idolatry back then much less potent than Africa's? nannymcphee: 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 9:41am On Sep 30, 2014 |
Mr Eternity, He has never visited a hospital, except to pray for fickle believers who never shared his truth mbaemeka: 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 10:10am On Sep 30, 2014 |
Wassup god mbaemeka: 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 10:55am On Sep 30, 2014 |
it is not written that Paul was BITTEN, the hosts thought he was bitten and expected him to drop dead. he may/may not have been bitten nannymcphee: |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 11:22am On Sep 30, 2014 |
If Jesus is saying that 'hey, I beat up the world so you won't have tribulation', WHAT WAS THE POINT OF TELLING THEM THEY WOULD HAVE TRIBULATION? He is saying 'tribulations will come in the world but I have overcome it so you too will' otherwise he could have just said, 'you will never have tribulations since i overcome the world already' Of course I doubt English is your first language but is that an excuse for not thinking? mbaemeka: |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 12:12pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
A very simple explanation would be the Church in Corinth fell sick and died noticeably ABOVE AVERAGE or excessively and Paul attributed this to Holy Communion Think...think Ebola. Why is it a cause for concern? It is killing just like other diseases only faster. That is exactly what happened to Corinthian believers; Holy Communion messed with their mortality rate. By your logic, before Ebola scourge, Africans were living to be 200 years  mbaemeka: 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by shdemidemi(m): 12:49pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
If Jesus is saying that 'hey, I beat up the world so you won't have tribulation', WHAT WAS THE POINT OF TELLING THEM THEY WOULD HAVE TRIBULATION? |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 2:56pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
And I presume there has been no need for such seeing you can 'teleport' from Nigeria to anywhere on a jet I will also assume there has been no need to revive a rotting four day old corpse, not to mention feed 5000 on a few pieces o bread and fish  mbaemeka: |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 4:15pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
Four things 1. if mbaemeko is sick, he will say that even Christians while they are saved from sin still fall into occasional sin  2. If the 'occasional sickness kills him he will say that he allowed Jesus to take him home 3. Whatever infirmity Timothy was suffering from, that it caught Paul's eye and attracted a whole verse means it was significant 4. Does God heal infirmities of Timothy variety or He suffers His gods aka children to wallow in them till rapture? mbaemeka: |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 10:27pm On Sep 30, 2014 |
Acts 9:44-46 (ESV) 44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Acts 11:15 (ESV) 15 As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. Mbaemeka by virtue of being a dyed-in-the-wool Dignitary Oyakhilome fanatic would have you believe that the Holy Spirit fell on 'accepted' but unregenerated Gentiles. And ONLY AFTER/UPON speaking in tongues were they saved It is difficult wresting verses to conform to regurgitated heresies. Here's why; 1. They still manifested spiritual gift reserved for the regenerated! 2. They interrupted Peter's sermon not by CONFESSING TO SALVATION what they had BELIEVED TO RIGHTEOUSNESS but by speaking in tongues mbaemeka: 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 6:08pm On Oct 01, 2014 |
[size=20pt] Sunday Morning Stickup, What Your Pastor Doesn't Want You To Know About Tithes[/size] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_E4uvFKPHk In the video conversation above, this book was not received well by Bishop Jakes and the leadership in the church. Based on the cover alone, David Lee was escorted and physically removed from the church at the Bishop’s request. He claims that his book was considered so dangerous and so revealing, that it was seen to be a threat to those who are getting wealthy by running their churches. David Lee says that the experience was humiliating for him, since he was taken out of the church in front of his two small children. He also says that he was stripped of his ministerial license at the church as well during a private meeting. He says that his kids were traumatized by what they saw happen to their father. David Lee says that police told him that he could never come back to the church without the threat of being arrested. He asked the officers why he was being banned from the church and claims that the officer told him that he’d been lied to, and that the police were allegedly used by church leadership to get rid of him. The discussion is interesting. You can hear the rest off the video itself: Sunday Morning Stickup is how T.D. Jakes uses Prosperity Gospel to Rob Church Members and why David Lee was kicked out as one of Bishop T.D. Jakes' Elders for telling the truth Served as a licensed Ordained Elder under the pastorate of Bishop T.D. Jakes for nearly 30 years and working under the umbrella of T.D. Jakes Ministries for nearly a decade, he led the Sunday school department as the Superintendent until the ministry relocated to its current location in Dallas Texas. The first ministry class that led to the licensing of the first set of ministers ordained at the Potter’s House of Dallas Inc. was taught by David Lee. Employed by T.D. Jakes Ministries Sales and Marketing Department, David Lee led more than 500 people who worked with the sale and distribution of products globally. There he demonstrated his business acumen as the National Sales Manager where he managed the sale and marketing of a multi-million dollar inventory at more than 9 major record-breaking conferences including Woman Thou Art Loosed, Man Power and the Pastors and Leaders Conferences as well as all of Bishop Jakes smaller personal engagements. Many know Bishop T.D. Jakes as the internationally acclaimed preacher, author, teacher, and pastor of the megachurch The Potter’s House. While Jakes’ has many adoring followers, not everyone is a supporter. David Lee is one of those people. Lee attended the Potter’s House and worked with Jakes for 20 years participating in many non-profit organizations and traveling the world evangelizing. However, all of that changed when Lee published a book that pleas with readers to quit supporting the prosperity gospel doctrine preached by Jakes. Lee says he wrote the book “out of obedience to a mandate from God on my life.” In it, he makes the assertion that tithing is no longer scriptural or ethical. He discusses how tithing in the Bible was about Israel’s economy, and that under Mosaic law, tithing was about helping the needy, not about giving money. He also points out that God wants His followers to be living sacrifices, not to give Him large sums of money. Lee states in the book, “we are not in need of a revival in our churches; we are in desperate need of a funeral. The call goes out to bury many of the practices which have a purely business focus in our churches today.” It has been revealed that Jakes charged ministers and elders of his church more than $1,000 to attend a two day conference he conducted. He also is known to charge amounts ranging from $55,000 to $100,000 to preach at inviting churches. While some may be okay with this, one has to wonder if it is the Christian thing to do to charge such large sums simply to share the message of Jesus. The video is a book trailer for Lee’s book, Sunday Morning Stickup: What Your Pastor Doesn’t Want You To Know About Tithes. Watch it to find out what happened the day Lee and his family were escorted out of Bishop Jakes’ church in response to the book being published and for a preview of his revealing tell all book about the prosperity gospel Jakes’ preaches and why the doctrine helps Jakes essentially rob church members. http://www.sundaymorningstickup.com/author.html h t t p ://youtu.be/larithrRFOs (i.e. a 2 hour exclusive interview with David Lee, on The Revolution Radio Show) http://blacklikemoi.com/2014/06/sunday-morning-stickup-book-trailer-exiled-church/ The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. - John 10:10 KJV Who is the thief? It is the hireling in John 10:12-13 - hireling (i.e. noun derogatory) a person who works purely for material reward. 5 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by feedthenation(m): 12:57pm On Oct 02, 2014 |
Peter Popoff's miracle water for debt cancellation: http://www.christianpost.com/news/controversial-televangelist-peter-popoff-hawks-miracle-water-93290/ |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 7:43pm On Oct 02, 2014 |
Popoff is back? That's another reason to believe in resurrection feedthenation: Peter Popoff's miracle water for debt cancellation: |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 10:38am On Oct 03, 2014 |
Do people get dumber as soon as they stop tithing or what? It seems the devourer tweaks a little something in them individual's brains. Some ridiculous fellow is crying foul at being sacked from a place he hopes to destroy. Does he really think TDJ would be insane enough to keep him as a staff? Does he really expect a good review of his book when his book is antagonistic to the church's teaching? Pretty deluded fellow imo. Also, it is right for people to feel bad for not doing right (whatever right is). Humans are created with conscience, fellows should stop pathetic attempts at crude psychology. True freedom is in knowing Jesus, not in starting or stopping tithes. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by feedthenation(m): 3:10pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
An article from 2004 about Jesse Duplantis: This week, Jesse stars in the new reality TV show “Keeping up with the Copelands!” A few weeks ago I revealed how Kenneth and Gloria Copeland are trying to manipulate their followers into buying them two new Cessna Citation X private jets. Well, not to be outdone by the Copeland's, Jesse has decided that he too must have a new Cessna Citation X in order to “preach the gospel to the world” According to Jesse’s website : ”God has given JDM a commission to, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the Gospel to every creature" (Mark 16:15). As these last days draw to a close, it's time to speed up the work and reach more nations with the Gospel. God will not be satisfied with a half-fulfilled assignment and neither should we”. In order to complete this assignment, God has told us to believe Him for a Citation X (10), an $18 million corporate jet with the speed and fuel capacity to fly anywhere in the world.” With apologies to Janis Joplin Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Citation Ten I’ve been flying Delta, I must make amends Worked hard all my lifetime preaching about sin, So Oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Citation Ten Kenneth and Gloria are asking for two I know that’s greedy, for me just one will do I’m begging my partners to send their cash in, So oh Lord, won’t you buy me a Citation Ten! Here’s an interesting story from the book of Acts that you should consider if you’ve ever felt led to give to one of these covetous wolves. In Acts chapter 8 the story is told of Philip the evangelist who went to Samaria and preached Christ unto them (verse 5-13). After this the angel of the Lord tells Philip to go down to Gaza. (verse 26). As he was going he came upon a man in a chariot who was reading a scroll of the book of Isaiah. The Lord told Philip to go up to the man in the chariot. Philip explained the meaning of Isaiah’s prophecy. This particular passage is found in Isaiah chapter 53 which is the gospel. So Philip preached the gospel, the death, burial, and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ to this man. Upon hearing and understanding the gospel, the man wished to be baptized which Philip did. Now check out this verse: Acts 8: 39-40 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea. Philip was translated from the middle of the desert to Azotus, (Ashdod) and he didn’t need a $20 million dollar jet to get there! Do you realize that within a few years after the day of Pentecost the early church had preached the gospel in almost the entire known world. And it didn’t cost them billions and billions of dollars. And they didn’t need satellite TV and private jets to do it. What they did need was obedience to the Lord. What it cost them was their lives. When you finally decide to lay down your life, your will, your plans and take up the cross in obedience to the great commission, the Lord will make sure you get to wherever he wants you to go. On his website Duplantis talks about those who would give to this project being obedient to the leading of the Lord. Well Jesse let me tell you about obedience. Philip was obedient to the leading of the Lord. You should take a lesson from a real evangelist. Repent from the preaching of your false gospel! Repent of your covetous idolatry! You should sell everything you have, return the money to your partners and actually lay down your life for Christ. 2Cor 11: 13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. Steve Lumbley 2004 This article may be reproduced and distributed free of charge as long as it remains in its original form. http://www.apostasywatch.com/Wolves/WolfReports/JesseDuPlantis/tabid/92/Default.aspx No wonder our Nigerian Pastors don't want to be left out in having private jets for the work of the gospel. 4 Likes 1 Share |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nannymcphee(f): 8:34pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
vooks: There is a good reason I don't buy this Cabbalistic/names mysticism; names mattered nothing in the Primitive/Early church. Thanks for this |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by brocab: 11:18pm On Oct 03, 2014 |
The truth in tithing is not a debate, where theirs truth there's no argument. People argue only because one dont seek the word of GOD. As we should, Some pefer to listen to prosperity preachers who only preach on the tithing message because he or she don't seek the word of the lord for themselves...Give all your monies away, and help the rich become richer? its your choice... We have greater problems coming our way, endtimes prophesy is falling into place, Rumor's of wars nation against nation-kingdom against kingdom, a war that no-one has ever seen before, Fema Concentation camps are being built all over our globe, a re-model-ing of the Holocaust fitted with Guillotines-ready for us to enjoy, not everyone will make it to the rapture, the lord has been sending out his messagers to the churches-are we listening? repent and ask for forgiveness, daily seek the word, all men should pray, the time is coming. The lord jesus has been pouring out Dreams and visions to his own believers, open your net and find this truth, its all bible prophesy.. And last of all, its a plan' for the rich to murder 95% of our world popullation. Image123: Do people get dumber as soon as they stop tithing or what? It seems the devourer tweaks a little something in them individual's brains. Some ridiculous fellow is crying foul at being sacked from a place he hopes to destroy. Does he really think TDJ would be insane enough to keep him as a staff? Does he really expect a good review of his book when his book is antagonistic to the church's teaching? Pretty deluded fellow imo. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 3:31am On Oct 04, 2014 |
nannymcphee: In addition to what vooks wrote, Paul's name changes from Saul to Paul. Observe: Saul means desired Paul means small. If the mentality of the first century Christians were to bear positive names, Paul would never have changed his name from desired to small. In fact some claim that the reason for the change of name to Paul which is small was because Paul was diminutive and that name started as a nick name but stuck with him. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 4:19am On Oct 04, 2014 |
@Winsomex, I read on Paul's change of name from Romans Commentary- Cambridge Bible. It had all to do with ease of usage among the Gentiles. That's how practical the apostles were. Nowadays we have Shekinah,Beulah,Precious,Innocent,Faith,Hope,Righteousness,Shalom....Hebrew names supposedly to steer a kid's destiny in the right direction. We also have messages,DVDs on the same. I have even come across some Naija manufactured prayer points to neutralize the bad influence of a crazy name Thank Jesus for technology, I just found the commentary! Read about Saul/Paul.....he had BOTH names from infancy! http://biblehub.com/commentaries/cambridge/romans/ WinsomeX: 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nannymcphee(f): 7:00am On Oct 04, 2014 |
@ vooks & winsomex Thanks for the further clarification on the issue of names See why I keep saying its important we ask questions, I have always viewed it from my perspective, thanks for this though I have always wondered why the white's always bear funny names & it seems not to have any significant in their lives That being said, as a Christian I wouldn't be comfortable bearing a name that is associated with the devil 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 7:43am On Oct 04, 2014 |
@nannymcphee, I think every other African tribe/culture gives names some significance whether it be naming infants after dead ancestors or deities or weather. I recently discovered that I was named after my uncle from my father's side who was named after his uncle who was born when there was an outbreak of I think smallpox/mumps. The great granduncle was named after that disease meaning am named after a disease . It was a nickname and his real name which should be my uncle's name and mine by extension simply means 'black'This may be what largely drives this excitement/preoccupation with names...call them Negro carry-overs into Christianity. I have always wondered why it was necessary to name John the Baptist John( Luke 1:19,57-64). Whatever it was, it was not prescriptive, just descriptive as we have no record of angels deciding what names we believers adopted for their infants elsewhere. So unless and until God specifies what name I should give my kids, I will give them whatever tickles my fancy. And am not dropping mine for nothing nor nobody nannymcphee: @ vooks & winsomex 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 11:04am On Oct 04, 2014 |
I commend the efforts of trustman and BabaGnoni on their contributions to F14 and F15. The thesis that we began to pursue many months ago on the errors of the Word of Faith have been proven beyond any reasonable doubt. For one, the mouths of those who propound and defend these doctrines have been shut, at least on this thread. And by the grace of God, there errors will become evident in the days to come for all to see. If after this anyone still believes and practice Word of Faith, they will be without excuse on that Day. 3 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 1:13pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: Perhaps, we may hastily conclude too that your mouth was shut all the while you didn't post here as drumb? The thread lost impetus since like forever. Also, hanging all the perceived ills of Christianity on WOF don't make it WOF. For one, i saw no hope whatsoever on the thread when you and co seriously shied away from any point blanks preferring rather to discuss the dead and largely unknown. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 1:24pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
Image123: You honestly would have done better by keeping quiet. In this case, your silence would make more sense than what you have just said up there. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 2:08pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: Did the guy see the examples we gave on Nigerian advocates of WoF? Some just refuse the truth no matter how it is presented. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 2:28pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
trustman: No i didn't, i lost interest and hardly skim through recent posts. So you changed your mind, point it out if you can. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 2:42pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
Image123:If you lost interest why follow DrummaBoy's advise. If you've resumed interest then it shouldn't be too much trouble getting back to where you went off. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 2:55pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
trustman: i recall almost pleading at that time and the exhortations then.page 6 et al. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 2:58pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
trustman: What is drumb's advice and how did i follow it? i didn't resume interest, whatever that means. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 2:58pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
Image123: That advise is still very relevant. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 3:00pm On Oct 04, 2014 |
trustman:What advice? |
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