@Image123,Grow up and put a thread to your name and let's see how far it will go

Trustman,drummaboy and BabaGnoni, you are blessed beyond measure for rattling these hooligans. They have no excuse

Image123:

What advice?

vooks:
@Image123,Grow up and put a thread to your name and let's see how far it will go

Trustman,drummaboy and BabaGnoni, you are blessed beyond measure for rattling these hooligans. They have no excuse

What? That is the most senseless thing i've read this month. Putting a thread in my name is somehow a sign of growth?
BTW, who are the hooligans and how were they rattled?

I don't expect spammers to comprehend

Image123:


What? That is the most senseless thing i've read this month. Putting a thread in my name is somehow a sign of growth?
BTW, who are the hooligans and how were they rattled?

vooks:
I don't expect spammers to comprehend

i was hoping you could answer. Who are the hooligans and how were they rattled?

Look at you

Image123:


i was hoping you could answer. Who are the hooligans and how were they rattled?

vooks:
Look at you

You can't answer. vooks

I was wrong, they are not hooligans but heckling trolls

Image123:

You can't answer. vooks

vooks:
I was wrong, they are not hooligans but heckling trolls

When are you not wrong? Blind critics are always wrong, though they hardly know it.

You attempted to derail this thread but failed. Why does it hurt you so much? Do you preach this trash by any chance or was you scammed as well?

Image123:


When are you not wrong? Blind critics are always wrong, though they hardly know it.

vooks:
You attempted to derail this thread but failed. Why does it hurt you so much? Do you preach this trash by any chance or was you scammed as well?

That's a most deluded conclusion i must say.

What were you promised?

Image123:


That's a most deluded conclusion i must say.

vooks:
What were you promised?

Delusions confirmed. Stop derailing BTW. Promised by who to who?

https://www.nairaland.com/1939255/bankruptcy-prosperity-gospel-exercise-biblical

read this and than you know that it is fake gospel.

What is it with Prosperity Preachers and getting divorce for no important reason?

An article about Bishop Clarence McClendon -

Luke 20:46
Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

If you’ve watched much so called Christian television in this country you’ve probably seen Clarence McClendon stalking the stage in his Los Angeles church or perhaps you’ve seen him ordering viewers to the phones during a TBN beg-a-thon.
Wearing long brightly colored robes, a catholic style clerical collar, a big gold cross swinging from his neck, McClendon is hard to miss. Like his colorful apparel the bishop is a conglomeration of preaching styles and beliefs.

Part word of faith, part latter rain/dominionist, part ecumenist, Clarence McClendon seems to incorporate every faulty doctrine and man made tradition filling the religious market today.
As with most of these apostates, money and how to get it plays a major role in McClendon’s preaching. He proclaims the “seed faith” message with the fervor of a Rod Parsley, adds some ecumenist “can’t we all just get along” pleading in the spirit of T.D. Jakes and throws in some positive thinking nuggets worthy of Tony Robbins. Something for everybody. No heresy left behind!

According to his bio, Clarence E. McClendon is quite the busy man. He reportedly began preaching at the age of fifteen, assumed his first pastorate at the age of nineteen and today serves as Senior Pastor of Full Harvest International Church in Los Angeles Ca. In addition he has founded the Siloam Bible College and Clarence E McClendon Leadership Institute as well as the Full Harvest Network of Churches, Ministries, and Entrepreneurs.

He is often introduced as Dr. Clarence McClendon and his P.H.D. is prominent throughout his website. A call to his office confirmed that his P.H.D. was acquired through Friends International Christian University, an unaccredited school based in Merced Ca. F.I.C.U specializes in degrees by correspondence and claims such religious notables as T.D. Jakes, Frederick K.C. Price, and Ira & Bridgett Hilliard among their doctoral alumni.

F.I.C.U. offers students the opportunity to advance rapidly through a degree program with the application of “lifetime learning credits” This means that your life and work experience may be applied toward your degree in lieu of actual classroom work. Some might refer to this type of school as a diploma mill. I’ll allow the reader to make his own judgment. The ministry claims that currently over 160 million homes in North America, South America, the Middle East, Europe and Africa have access to C.E.M.M television broadcasts. On top of that, Bishop McClendon hosts Gathering Force Crusades in major cities across America drawing tens of thousands throughout the year.

Sounds like he’s got all the bases covered. But wait, that’s not all!
McClendon also serves on the Bishops Council of the Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship, the College of Bishops of the International Communion of Charismatic Churches, is the California Regent for President Bush’s Faith Based Initiative Faith Center, and serves as a board member of the Do Something Foundation which advertises itself as a think tank of some of Americas top young leaders.
Are you impressed yet? Well, if not there’s more!
The Bishop is not only a preacher, broadcaster, administrator, educator, and entrepreneur par excellence he’s also an accomplished author and musician having three books and a Billboard top ten CD to his credit.
How does this guy possibly find time for church and family? Well, that’s where he seems to have run into a little problem.
1Tim 3:2
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Full Harvest International Church was affiliated with the International Church of the Foursquare Gospel (ICFG) when McClendon assumed the pastorate in 1991. In 2003 however he abruptly withdrew his church from that denomination citing “politics, real estate and systematic racism” as the reasons. ICFG officials denied the charges claiming that African Americans were represented in all levels of leadership within the denomination.

The real story seems to be a little more sordid.
After 16 years of marriage (and four children) “Bishop” Clarence McClendon announced his divorce from wife Tammera with the following statement to Charisma New Service
’McClendon said that he had married at 18 "for all the wrong reasons." He added: "The only reason [it] lasted as long as it did was because we both loved God. [Tammy] just made a decision about what she wanted to do with the rest of her life. I'm sad to say we are completely divorced."’
He added “"I have a calling to preach, not to be married. My calling is between my heavenly Father and myself. It doesn't affect my ministry."
It seems that his calling to “preach, not to be married” changed however when he married Priscilla Delgado of Los Angeles only seven days after his divorce from Tammera was finalized.
The ceremony was performed by Bishop Earl Paulk who was supposedly providing spiritual counseling to McClendon at the time. McClendons ex wife tells a different story. According to Tammera her husband had wanted out of the marriage for the last five years.
"I didn't want a divorce," Tammera told Charisma. "When I finally said yes to Clarence, he asked me to file because it would look bad if he divorced me-which could hurt his ministry." She also denied that racism played a part in the split from ICFG.

"Clarence shared everything with me before we had marital problems, and he never once said that Foursquare was racist toward him," she said. Apparently the Foursquare denomination has a policy requiring newly divorced ministers to step down from the pulpit for at least six months and to undergo a review by the denomination's Ethics Committee. McClendon of course claimed that this policy had nothing to do with his decision to withdraw.
Does anyone else smell a rat here?
I ask this question. Based on scripture, is Clarence McClendon qualified for the office of bishop?
When a man is not qualified for an office yet refuses to relinquish that office, what does that say about this man’s true beliefs and character. What does it say about those who support him in his efforts to remain a pastor and bishop?

Math 7:15-16
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Jesus said we shall know them by their fruits. Not only by what they say but by what their lives produce.
Clarence McClendon is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He wears a mask. He deceives gullible Christians with his smooth words. Attempting to hold on to all his accolades, all his exalted positions, all his acclaim within the Christian community this man jeopardizes not only his own immortal soul but others as well. He brings disrepute upon the Lord Jesus Christ and causes the world to hold the entire body of Christ in contempt.
If we truly loved the Lord and his word we would not be deceived by such men. Our response should be the same as Paul ordered in 1Cor 5. We should remove this man from fellowship and turn him over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh in the hope that he might repent and his spirit be saved.
Mark 8:36
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
Steve Lumbley 2004
This article may be reproduced and distributed free of charge as long as it remains in its original form.

http://www.apostasywatch.com/Wolves/WolfReports/ClarenceMcClendon/tabid/108/Default.aspx

^^^ Wow

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdo67o3FdCo
^{Heated argument between Deitrick Haddon & Clarence McClendon}

[size=20pt]Preachers of LA[/size]

In a heated scene on “Preachers of LA” with Gospel recording artist and former pastor Deitrick Haddon, McClendon and Haddon argued over preachers having entourages and honorariums. The debate got so tense that McClendon ultimately walked out of the house where they were all gathered.

“When the situation got heated, I recognized that I was getting into what the Bible calls ‘an ignorant and foolish dispute.’ What I recognize now is that I was set up to be put in crossfire. I am not going to allow people to abuse that or malign that for the sake of television,” said McClendon. He went on to reference a Bible verse, 2 Timothy 2: 23.

“It tells the man of God to avoid and ignorant and foolish disputes because they lead to strife,” McClendon explained. “I have spent 15, 16 years traveling the globe and I’ve cultivated a ministry of integrity around the world. I’m not going to allow people to abuse that for the sake of television.”

Additionally, Decatur, Illinois-bred minister said he was “set up to be put in a crossfire” in the man cave scene because he “wasn’t supposed to be there.”

McClendon detailed how he landed at the airport and producers asked could they send him a car to pick him up so that he could make the shoot. When he arrived at the residence, you see him with his son, his assistant who traveled with him and the driver that the producers sent. It gave the impression that McClendon only travels with a large entourage, which ultimately became part of the debate with Haddon.

As it pertained to honorariums for preaching – Haddon’s point was that the Gospel should be delivered without cost – McClendon said he never charges a “set honorarium.” He explained that he gets upwards of 200 to 300 requests to preach a year, and his team makes an evaluation of each opportunity.

“We’ve never denied anyone access to this ministry because they couldn’t afford my team,” he affirmed.

Though on “Preachers of LA” first episode Haddon was adamant that no place in the Bible does it say ministers of the Gospel should charge, AlwaysAList.com placed a call to his longtime booking agent Faith Management to inquire about his current rate. We were told that depending on the specifics of the request, Haddon’s booking fee ranges from $15,000 to $25,000. That’s a long way from free!

Regardless, McClendon requests viewers watch “Preachers of LA” and “make up your own mind.”

He closed: “Pray for me and pray for all of us involved that God would be glorified.”

http://alwaysalist.com/tv/clarencemcclendon-pola/

WinsomeX:
^^^ Wow

The Bishop Clarence McClendon again apparently divorced from his 2nd marriage to Priscilla Delgado in 2002, due to financial scandal.

Yet he still continues to preach on TBN.

"In a heated scene on “Preachers of LA” with Gospel recording artist and former pastor Deitrick Haddon" - even Deitrick Haddon is a divorcee according to the article below:

Deitrick Haddon, who is working hard to rebuild his brand, is slowly fighting his way back after a cloud of controversy surrounding his divorce from fellow gospel singer, and former wife of 15 years, Damita Haddon, overshadowed his longtime successful career.
Haddon, who accused “In the Middle” singer, Isaac Carree, of sleeping with his ex and causing the irreparable rift that led to the once strong couple’s permanent split, is now engaged to marry the mother of his out-of-wedlock daughter, Angel Destin Monet.

http://www.gospelredefined.com/2013/05/pastors-in-reality-tv-show-based-on.html

BabaGnoni:


Where are you?
- Don't answer back, it was a rhetorical question
These miracles in the medical arenas are already happening now.
Ears and noses are being regrown etc etc
- not reattached ear but new ear grown
Little by little, we will have full or more manifestations of the likes
It will come not from playing Jesus (i.e. not from claiming that, we are little gods, god class with a little ''g'' etc)
not from the pulpit, pastors or prophets, nannymcphee.

2014 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2571335/Ears-noses-grown-lab-stem-cells-human-transplants-thanks-revolutionary-technique.html
2006 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-487039/Artist-implants-ear-arm.html

[size=18pt]The lab-grown pen.is: approaching a medical milestone[/size]
After more than 20 years of research, a team of scientists are bioengineering pen.ises in the lab which may soon be transplanted safely on to patients.
It is an extraordinary medical endeavour that has implications for a wide range of disorders
^{Dara Mohammadi
The Observer, Saturday 4 October 2014 19.00 BST}

Gathered around an enclosure at the Wake Forest Institute for Regenerative Medicine in North Carolina in 2008, Anthony Atala and his colleagues watched anxiously to see if two rabbits would have sex. The suspense was short-lived: within a minute of being put together, the male mounted the female and successfully mated.

While it’s not clear what the rabbits made of the moment, for Atala it was definitely special. It was proof that a concept he’d been working on since 1992 – that joysticks could be grown in a laboratory and transplanted to humans – was theoretically possible. The male rabbit was one of 12 for which he had bioengineered a penis; all tried to mate; in eight there was proof of ejaculation; four went on to produce offspring.

The media’s coverage of Atala’s announcement a year later was understandably excited. Not just because of the novelty of a man growing joysticks in a laboratory, but because his work would fulfil a real need for men who have lost their penis through genital defects, traumatic injury, surgery for aggressive penile cancer, or even jilted lovers exacting revenge.

At present, the only treatment option for these men is to have a penis constructed with skin and muscle from their thigh or forearm. Sexual function can be restored with a penile prosthetic placed inside. The prosthetics can be either malleable rods, with the penis left in a permanently semi-rigid state and thus difficult to conceal, or inflatable rods, which have a saline pump housed in the scrotum. Both technologies have been around since the 1970s. The aesthetics are crude and penetration is awkward.

Another option is a penis transplant from another individual, but this carries a risk of immunological rejection. The chance of organ death can be lessened with anti-rejection drugs, but these drugs have serious side-effects. Transplants can also have a psychological impact, especially with an organ as intimate as the penis. In 2006, a Chinese man was the first to receive a donor penis; two weeks after the 15-hour operation, surgeons removed the transplanted organ on the request of both the patient and his partner.

Atala hopes his technique will mitigate both immunological and psychological issues because his joysticks would be engineered using a patient’s own cells. “The phallus is actually much longer than you think,” he explains. “It goes all the way behind the pelvis, so no matter the extent of the damage, there is a high probability that there are salvageable cells.”

Peruvian-born Atala, a urological surgeon and professor of regenerative medicine, heads a 300-strong team at the institute. He corrects himself constantly, always going back to edit his speech, adding words such as “high probability“ or “in all likelihood” to be sure his sentences are word-perfect. Soft-spoken and mild-mannered, Atala is a trailblazer in the field and you can’t help but think that his measured speech is an attempt to provide a sure path for others to follow.

To some, engineering human organs sounds like science fiction, but for Atala it’s an absolute necessity. As we live longer (and thus our organs fail more) the shortage of organs for donation will only get worse. If he can work out how to generate the organs people need in a reliable and effective way, the technology can improve a lot of people’s lives. In 2006, Atala and his team announced the first successful bioengineered organ transplant, a bladder, which had been implanted into seven patients in 1999. Earlier this year he announced the successful follow-up of four women given bioengineered vaginas in 2005-2008. Despite these successes, he says, the penis is proving trickier.

Organs increase in architectural complexity as they go from flat structures such as skin, cylindrical structures such as the vagina, to hollow non-tubular organs such as the bladder. As a solid organ, the penis tops this list in both density of cells and structural complexity. It consists of a spongy erectile tissue unique to it. During an erection, signals from the nerves trigger blood vessels to dilate, filling this spongy tissue with blood and causing the penis to lengthen and stiffen.

“We were completely stuck,” says Atala of the first few years of research in the early 90s. “Even the idea of the field of regenerative medicine was brand new at the time. We had no idea how to make this structure, let alone make it so it would perform like the natural organ.” Then, in 1994, he figured he could take a helping hand from Mother Nature. Using a technique pioneered for biological skin dressings, he would take a donor penis and soak it in a mild detergent of enzymes for a couple of weeks to wash away the donor cells.

“You’re left with a mostly collagen scaffold – a skeleton if you like, that looks and feels just like the organ,” explains James Yoo, one of Atala’s collaborators at the institute. “Think of it like a building. If you remove all the furniture and the people, you’re still left with the main structure of the building. Then you replace the tenants with new ones. That’s the whole idea. It’s just that the building is a penis and the tenants are cells.”

The next step is to reseed the structure with the patient’s own cells taken in a biopsy from salvageable tissue and grown in culture. Smooth muscle cells, which relax during an erection to allow the vessels to dilate and the penis to fill with blood, are first, followed by endothelial cells which line the interior surface of blood and lymphatic vessels. When ready, the bioengineered penis is ready to be transplanted to the recipient.

So why, six years on from successfully engineering a penis for rabbits, have they not yet done the same for humans? Atala explains that, as is often the case with these things, scaling up is proving difficult. “Even though we can make them in a very small mammal, we have to tweak the technology, the processes, the ratio of cells and so on, to get larger and larger structures. That’s pretty much what we’ve been doing since the rabbits.”

They’ve made encouraging progress. Atala has engineered half a dozen human joysticks. Although they are not yet ready for transplanting, Atala’s team are assessing the structures for safety and effectiveness. One machine squashes, stretches and twists them to make sure they can stand up to the wear of everyday life; another pumps fluid into them to test erections. Sliced segments are tested at the genetic, cellular and physiological level.

“It’s a rigorous testing schedule,” says Atala, wearily. “But we’re trying to get approval from the US Food and Drug Administration so we know everything is perfect before we move to a first in-man test.”

Neither Atala nor Yoo will be pushed for a date for the first test in man, saying only that they’d expect it to occur within five years. “In the end we’re aiming for the entire size of the organ,” says Atala. “But in reality our first target is going to be partial replacement of the organ.”

In the short term, this would include growing smaller lengths for partially damaged joysticks, but would also include replacing parts of the penis to help cure erectile dysfunction. Degradation of the spongy erectile tissue, says Tom Lue, a urological surgeon at the University of California, San Francisco, is the leading cause of impotence in old age. Disorders such as high blood pressure or diabetes can damage the delicate tissue – the resulting scar tissue is less elastic, meaning the tissue cannot completely fill with blood and the penis cannot become fully erect.

“Show me a hundred 70-year-old men with erectile dysfunction,” says Lue, “and I’ll bet you 90% of them have scar material in their penis.” Traumatic injury or priapism, a condition that leaves men with an increasingly painful erection for hours or even days, can also damage the tissue and cause erectile dysfunction in younger men. “If you replace the damaged spongy tissue you can give these men a better erection.”

Engineering the spongy tissue for replacement is one of Atala and Yoo’s interim goals. Lue is also hoping to restore erections, but for less severely damaged joysticks. For instance, some men become impotent after surgery for prostate or rectal cancer because the nerves that regulate erections, which run through the rectum and prostate into the centre of the penis, can get damaged. Likewise with traumatic injury, if the vessels are severed then the penis cannot fill with blood.

Microsurgery to connect the vessels and nerves in the penis is possible but often ineffective. Lue is testing whether injecting stem cells into the base of the penis can encourage the nerves and cells to rejoin. His work might also help Atala and Yoo to stimulate nerve and vessel regrowth when the day comes for the first in-man trial of a bioengineered penis. Twenty-two years into his research to bioengineer a human penis, Atala is a man who is both excited and impatient for that day. And you’d suspect he’s not the only one.

[size=16pt]Bioengineered organs: The story so far…[/size]

Bladder

In 1999 the bladder became the first laboratory-grown organ to be given to a human. Atala and his colleagues took cells from a biopsy from seven patients with bladder disease. The cells were cultured and then seeded, layer by layer, on to a biodegradable, bladder-shaped collagen scaffold. After about eight weeks they were transplanted to patients, where the organs developed and integrated into the body.

Vagina

Another pilot study, this time in four women with a rare congenital abnormality that causes the vagina and uterus to be underdeveloped or absent. Using a similar technique to the one used to make bladders, in 2005 they implanted the first vagina. Up to eight years after transplant, all four organs have normal structure and function. This technique could be used to help women following injury or cancer.

Pen.is and beyond

In 2004, they implanted the first bioengineered urethra into five boys. This technology will help in their work towards reconstructing the penis. Atala and his colleagues are also working on 30 different organs and tissues including a kidney, which could be made using a 3D printer, and tissue for the liver, heart and lung.

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/oct/04/penis-transplants-anthony-atala-interview
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/oct/05/laboratory-joysticks-test-on-men

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F16: Hyped up motivational hustling preaching[/size]

“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”
- 2 Timothy 4: 3,4

Is 2 Timothy 4: 3 &4 being fulfilled?
A highpoint in WoF proponents’ approach at spreading their messages is the blending of up-to-date marketing techniques with messages that will make people have a ‘good time’ in church. This is where Hyped up motivational hustling preaching comes in.

Motivational speaking seeks to motivate or inspire the hearers.
The appeal is more on the emotion to get hearers toe a certain line of action.
The speakers seek to do this through feel-good messages.
The emphasis is usually on what the individual can be or can achieve.
Consequently the focus is on man.

Many Christians today seek after and are deceived by captivating and dramatic preaching because it excites their ears and satisfies their desire to be entertained. Unfortunately what makes for true biblical teaching do not always entertain. Very many pulpits today are filled more by motivational speakers than by true Bible teachers. As a result the gospel of Christ is being replaced with ‘stories’ that appeal to hearers.

Messages Packaged as the Gospel
The diet being fed to the thousands of people listening to these pulpits and many more who watch on TV is anything but spiritual. The audiences think they are being fed the gospel message but in reality they are being fed with ‘another gospel’. Many are deceived by the few Bible verses sprinkled here and there in the messages. The true impact the rightly preached Word of God should have had on the individual lives of the ordinary Christian is therefore lacking. Correspondingly the effect Christians should have collectively on their spheres of influence and community is equally absent.

“All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work”
- 2 Timothy 3: 16 & 17

Differences between a Motivational Preaching and Biblical Preaching
Motivational teachings are aimed at stirring up the emotions; superficial; largely avoids preaching against sin; are about self empowerment, feel good and focuses on what man can get and be: favor, blessing, victory, promotion, etc; mostly uses stories (including personal stories, particularly of the preachers) instead of the Bible. It is full of human solutions for issues. Their ministries are built around the personal charisma of the preachers.
Biblical preaching on the other hand largely uses the Bible and aims at the transformation of the inner man (Romans 12: 1-2, Ephesians 4: 11-14). It challenges the individual to focus more on God than self. The Word of God rightly divided is taught in-depth. Sin and the reality of heaven and hell are not ignored. It equips the hearer with divine solutions for facing problems.

Proponents
Leading the pack of motivational preachers today are Bishop T.D. Jakes of the Potter’s House, Dallas, Texas and Pastor Joel Osteen of the New Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas; two highly popular preachers in the global Christian circles.

Joel Osteen is said to have said: “I find today people are not looking for theology. There’s a place for it, (but) in your everyday life you need to know how to live” Do we assume here then that Osteen believes ‘theology’ doesn’t teach people how to live their everyday lives? Can we take it further to say that we can find no sound theology in Lakewood? So people are not looking for “the knowledge of God” (which is what theology simply means) but for something else?
These speakers’ messages are given so as not to offend or generate controversy. For instance, since the word “God” will appear to be less offensive to many than the name “Jesus” Osteen can ‘preach’ a whole ‘sermon’, almost not mentioning the name of Jesus, but God.
T.D. Jakes like most motivational preachers hardly use the Bible when giving his messages. What he aims at is to stir up people’s emotion expecting in return their applause.

Concerns
Unfortunately most congregations have been fed and entertained for so long with motivational preaching that true expository teaching will considered ‘dry’ and uninteresting by them.
How did biblical preachers preach? How did Jesus teach? To soothe their audiences ego making God a means to their end or making demands on their hearers to respond to God’s expectation of them? Did they appeal to their hearers to, like they say, get all they can, can all they get and sit on the can? Or did they tell them it was not about self but about God?
The key task of a pastor is to teach the Word of God’s, rightly divided. A pastor of the Word doesn’t just teach his flock always about what it can get from God. He teaches them also about their responsibility toward God, God’s Kingdom work on earth and to others.
“preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching”
- 2 Timothy 4: 2
Reprove, rebuke and exhort do not necessarily make hearer ‘feel good’. In fact the flesh is always antagonistic to many things that God’s word require of the Christian. The hearing of the Word of God will in many instances bring conviction and ‘godly sorrow’ (2 Corinthians 7:10).

Warning
The church needs to return to the teaching of the pure spiritual food of the Word of God rather than resorting to human philosophies and unscriptural approach to feeding Christians. Believers need to test what they hear with the word of God. They must know that they will ultimately be held accountable for how they lived their lives here on earth.
“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil” 2 Corinthians 5:10
For those who may be unaware that what they hear are largely motivational preaching rather than the true gospel note that the Bible holds you responsible for what you take in and stand on:
Jesus said: “Watch and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees” Matthew 16: 6
“Then they understood that he did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.” Matthew 16: 12
Paul warned: “See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ.” Colossians 2:8

May God open believers’ eyes to see the huge difference between Motivational Preaching and Biblical Preaching and may He help these preachers rely on the enabling power of the Holy Spirit to do God's work in God's way.

I REST MY CASE ON F16, FOR NOW.

BabaGnoni, while I understand that you're are attempting to demystify the spurious claims of people who claim credibility by putting up baseless, controversial and well-staged shows of their ability branded as the 'power of God', I would want us to strike a balance too, at least for many yet infant believers coming to the knowledge of God.

The power of God is real, tangible and may not always be scientifically explainable. It will often defy logic. But the truth is that God does not perform miracles for showing off, but as an part of His work of reaching out daily to men's hearts.

No matter how men attempt to counterfeit and dubiously replicate the power of God, they will never succeed. All God does is for His glory, no man will ever be able to take credit for it. He uses us to show forth His power, we don't use Him to acclaim ourselves before people. He is the Sovereign Lord and He does as He pleases.

If we let Him work through us, we inevitably radiate His glory, only as we abide in Him of course and He is glad to be exalted in our lives - to show forth His power in and through vessels of clay.

Scientific advancement and accomplishments will never touch the extent of God's power. If there be such accomplishments, it is God who has revealed them to help men indeed dominate the earth. I remember how the law of God through Moses contained sanitary rules whom people of those times might not have been able to explain or justify but which with the increase of knowledge in these last days, we acknowledge and approve, centuries after He first instructed them.

So saying, I would not hurriedly interprete Jesus' statement that we would do greater works as the manifestations of scientific advancements. Just like Jesus also said That He only did what He saw His Father do, we will only do greater works than Jesus did, because God decides to expose new dimensions of Himself, and not because we can just independently take up the initiative for ourselves.

I hope I haven't misconstrued your meaning but I just thought to chip this in, to give a balanced view for the benefit of anyone who is still learning of these matters - that their faith in God's incontestably supreme power be not overthrown.

Thanks

nuwell:

BabaGnoni, while I understand that you're are attempting to demystify the spurious claims of people who claim credibility by putting up baseless, controversial and well-staged shows of their ability branded as the 'power of God', I would want us to strike a balance too, at least for many yet infant believers coming to the knowledge of God.

The power of God is real, tangible and may not always be scientifically explainable. It will often defy logic. But the truth is that God does not perform miracles for showing off, but as an part of His work of reaching out daily to men's hearts.

No matter how men attempt to counterfeit and dubiously replicate the power of God, they will never succeed. All God does is for His glory, no man will ever be able to take credit for it. He uses us to show forth His power, we don't use Him to acclaim ourselves before people. He is the Sovereign Lord and He does as He pleases.

If we let Him work through us, we inevitably radiate His glory, only as we abide in Him of course and He is glad to be exalted in our lives - to show forth His power in and through vessels of clay.

Scientific advancement and accomplishments will never touch the extent of God's power. If there be such accomplishments, it is God who has revealed them to help men indeed dominate the earth. I remember how the law of God through Moses contained sanitary rules whom people of those times might not have been able to explain or justify but which with the increase of knowledge in these last days, we acknowledge and approve, centuries after He first instructed them.

So saying, I would not hurriedly interprete Jesus' statement that we would do greater works as the manifestations of scientific advancements. Just like Jesus also said That He only did what He saw His Father do, we will only do greater works than Jesus did, because God decides to expose new dimensions of Himself, and not because we can just independently take up the initiative for ourselves.

I hope I haven't misconstrued your meaning but I just thought to chip this in, to give a balanced view for the benefit of anyone who is still learning of these matters - that their faith in God's incontestably supreme power be not overthrown.

Thanks

nuwell, thanks and I agree with your sentiments totally
This the classic or proverbial "gun and a loaded magazine" situation, where the gun in the wrong hands potentially can cause harm which will be fatal and disastrous
Regarding the caution and to strike a balance (i.e. at least for many yet infant believers coming to the knowledge of God)
well, that was why I didnt put the "gun" out in the plain (i.e. it was hidden in a post out of general public or everyone's sight)
It actually was buried in a post but then someone else unearthen the gun and started fiddling about with it, brandishing and pointing it in faces at the excuse of John 14:12 and 1 Corinthians 12:9-10

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also;
and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
- John 14:12

⁹to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit,
¹⁰and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues
- 1 Corinthians 12:9-10

BabaGnoni:

@Vilicious & Demain_man

There is no satisfying you lot

By the way, it is wrong to seek only what God can do (e.g. grow back amputated limbs)

and not seek God Himself or be truly interested in Him at all

Just this bit, short, calling y'all: evil and godless people of this day, asking for a miracle as a sign

Bet y'all are part of the lot that were waiting to sprout wings before the prospect of flying in air

God has already done His bit of depositing in us, the skills and possibility of growing back amputated limbs

He is waiting on us, to activate the & that part of the brain which will trigger or kick-start growing back amputated limbs now or in a future event.

Maybe that person holding back and holding the miracle up for everyone else is YOU!

BabaGnoni:

@oluafolabi

First, God is not in the business of directly or personally growing back amputated limbs

God, like in the past, uses people

and for this case too, is going to use other people grow back amputated limbs.

You wondering why God would hold back that one miracle (i.e. grow back amputated limbs?)

Well, it is because He is abiding by His word or rules, one of which is:
Let them, man; have dominion, take dominion over the earth; dominion as in control et cetera

Growing back amputated limbs is one such miracle you wont get at the pulpit or from crusades

just as flying in the air as we do now, did not originate from the pulpit nor come from crusades, revivals or what-not

Where will the buck stop? Eh?.

Now, today, it is growing back amputated limbs

I can bet you, tomorrow it'll be about the paraplegic.

Keep on researching, we need the researches to continue for the realisation of this medical miracle

However researching in the right places, researching the right way with being right with God, is the right and better way of finding and getting answers

Mum's should have been the word nuwell
Honestly I wished I had stuck to that

Though I agree with much of nuwell position up there, I disagree with the supposed caution he wishes to be taken because of young believers. I will take it from the negative and then proceed to the positive.

What does nuwell think of millions of sincerely saved Christians who are discipled the first few years in WoF churches? All the tithe indoctrination, the showbiz Christianity, the seek your heaven on earth gospel, etc; what does it do to the sincerity of their faith? Nothing. It may shake them. It may offer false hope. It may cause them to have a false perspective of Christ but it cannot change their status as God's children. God willing, years down the line, each one of them become taught by the Spirit and they abandon WoF. Is it not all part of Christ building the believer? Now what happens if by the stroke if God's mercy a Christian starts up in discipleship in sound doctrine?

This is my point: it is not our business to curtail truth in the fear of it making a shipwreck of young believers. If falsehood will not wreck them, why should truth? Our duty is to preach the word, it might take a young Christian years to understand but by Gods grace one day he will. In the early days of being a Christian, I came across a tract: CAN A SHEEP OF CHRIST BE LOST? Some one might argue that teaching "Perseverance of the Saints" to a young Christian will wreck him. I didn't understand the tract then but years later, under an Arminian ridden Pentecostal church, the lesson of that tract kept me safe. I can also say that tract, somehow led me out of WoF.

Our duty is to preach the word. Jesus will use the important aspec of it to build each Christian. When we realize that if we were saved by grace, grace will also sanctify us and eventually glorify us, we will not bother too much about young Christian. Jesus will do it.

Our concern should remain right doctrine BC false doctrine will damn a soul. Souls will think they have known the Lord but had only learnt religion. And false doctrine cannot convert a soul except God sovereignly intervene.

I trust God you get my drift.

.

Thanks WinsomeX. I do indeed get your drift and it's not so much a drift as a tidal wave. lolz

I agree wholeheartedly that the truth be taught as God gives us opportunity, with as much vehemence and more, as its perverters employ. Instruction in the faith should always be sound and uncompromising.

However, I just wanted BabaGnoni to ease off on the emphasis on medical exploits as the interpretation of the greater works that Jesus said we (his disciples) would do. He could well be right but that is not the all-encompassing connotation of that Scripture. Or would we be able to justify then why instead of faithful disciples, ardent deniers of God are often at the helm of these affairs? I feel the point has been made and there is no need to ruin a good point with a controversial illustration.

From the posts he quoted, I see his point and I agree that man is capable of much, through God, in managing this earth He's given to us. But pursuing the medical premise was becoming distracting to the emphasis of this thread, hence my protest. As for reproving the proponents of wrong doctrine, there is no question of how to go about it.

'And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.'

nuwell:

Thanks WinsomeX. I do indeed get your drift and it's not so much a drift as a tidal wave. lolz

I agree wholeheartedly that the truth be taught as God gives us opportunity, with as much vehemence and more, as its perverters employ. Instruction in the faith should always be sound and uncompromising.

However, I just wanted BabaGnoni to ease off on the emphasis on medical exploits as the interpretation of the greater works that Jesus said we (his disciples) would do.
He could well be right but that is not the all-encompassing connotation of that Scripture. Or would we be able to justify then why instead of faithful disciples, ardent deniers of God are often at the helm of these affairs? I feel the point has been made and there is no need to ruin a good point with a controversial illustration.

From the posts he quoted, I see his point and I agree that man is capable of much, through God, in managing this earth He's given to us. But pursuing the medical premise was becoming distracting to the emphasis of this thread, hence my protest. As for reproving the proponents of wrong doctrine, there is no question of how to go about it.

'And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.'

whatofyou:

The goal of being a christian is to be saved. Miracles and others are just secondary.

Salvation will give you a chance to be in God's new world, where no resident will say I am sick.

All the troubles of the present world will disappear.

Why do we keep on wanting to have a GREAT sign to cement our reverence for God?

Now there is a big difference between miracles and magic.
God has blessed mankind with the gift of using his brain to 'keep' the world spinning.

These (your question) are the kinds of 'miracle' that will follow the days of the reign of the anti-christ, for satan will come out blazing with miracles and wonders.
Then the sign-wanters will have enough to choose whom they want to serve, but it will be too late.
Either they already have the mark of the beast or they are living a painful christian life during the period.

You want new limbs growing out for those who had theirs amputated.
Satan also has power, but there is nothing impossible for our Creator, sign-wanting generation.

These kind of miracles will surely come to pass.

Re: Is It Impossible For God To Grow Back Amputated Limbs?
https://www.nairaland.com/1575662/it-impossible-god-grow-back/1#20608562

RoyPCain:

@babagnoni;

i don't know where you stand because you seem to be leaning on the fence of it's impossible

while i am of the believe that not all the 'Doing' of God in human is appreciated or realized by all men, hence the proposition of this thread.

the knowledge of replicating the limp [prosthesis, transplant] are from God.

like freewill, God provides it and allows man to activate it.

it is the good intention of good action of man that benefits.

BabaGnoni:


@RoyPCain

RoyPCain, what the OP asked, from the on-set, was: "Is It Impossible For God To Grow Back Amputated Limbs?"

whatofyou, rightly pointed out, and note, it was not flesh and blood that directed him to it,

that God, at one time, in Luke 22:47-51; picked up a freshly cut-off ear, reattaches it back healed

- God DID NOT grow the ear back or grow back amputated limb(s) for that matter

The preceding, above, is partly why, my stand was, God is not in the business of directly or personally growing back amputated limbs

Reiterating, when it comes to achieving this miracle and others (e.g. GROWING back amputated limbs, growing back any or all of the 32 adult permanent teeth et cetera) it is going to be realised via people (i.e. man) in the medical field, sector or arena

With this arrangement, it will be well within the confines of God abiding by His word or rule(s), one of which is:
Let them, man; have dominion, take dominion over the earth; dominion as in control et cetera

It is man's call or challenge, to grow back amputated limb, not God's,

and this miracle can or will happen, inasmuch, as man's spirit is willing, and the body is not weak.

⁴⁸But Jesus said to him, "Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?"
⁴⁹When those who were around Him saw what was going to happen, they said, "Lord, shall we strike with the sword?
⁵⁰And one of them struck the slave of the high priest and cut off his right ear.
⁵¹But Jesus answered and said,
"Stop! No more of this."
And He touched his ear and healed him.
- Luke 22:48-51

Note in Luke 22:51 Jesus did not regrow that severed ear but rather He re-attached it back.
Jesus on a separate occasion spit on the eyes of one man to heal him
Jesus on a another occasion spit on the ground and mixed the spit with dirt, then smeared the dirt on another man's eyes to heal him
- Spontaneity. No formula. He simply just did it, for being God that He is.
- Wow, Jesus spitting and mixing dirt, am sure, He was re-living the "creating Adam, in Eden" experience,

Of course, who wouldnt want their children to surpass or excel more than they did, and it is happening, only that people are expectant and looking for all, some or certain miracles in wrong places

As always, some miracles will be at pulpit (e.g. cancer healed, liver regrow, headache gone etc), other miracles (e.g. reattach limbs, regrow body parts etc) will happen legitimately elsewhere (e.g. medically etc)
- the thing is everything is bounded by rules. God can bypass the rule, He is allowed but we have to wrought out miracles within the confines of the rules

Perform these miracles according to the rules, else, whatever miracles are wrought will be as demonic Pharaoh's wise men snakes

So, essentially, I was merely keeping track of the progress and updates that the miracles are slowly but surely showing up
What is happening now, 2000 years later, are miracles (i.e. growing organs note not reattaching organs) never done/performed before

Aw c'mon now, when crying, tears doesn't impair ones vision now, (i.e. ti a ba nsunkun, a ma riran)
We all grown and should've been taken off milk long time, and already be, by now cutting our teeth, gnawing meat

Also it was once advised, to research into Greek Aorist participles to understand and know the implications, meaning, prophetic, fulfil etc of John 14:12, Mark 16:18, Acts 28:5 etc
- The NT was originally written in Greek na, why doesn't anyone want to read on "Greek Aorist Tenses" to understand and know about the grammar and constructs in the Greek texts

nuwell my foot's taken off the pedal, the boat's steady and no more rocking it

nuwell, we are on the same page. Thanks for the response.

Thanks guys. BabaGnoni, WinsomeX et al, we're good. Let's proceed with the thread.

Just to add, there is a systematic programming in place now, it has to do with the following

firstly, you're taught that the minister cannot err in what he teaches(similar to the papal infallibility)

the above is the reason when a minister is accused of a crime, the congregation cannot believe that the minister can do such because a picture of perfection has been sold to them already

Judge not, touch not my prophet
& do my prophet no harm

when damning evidence is produced, they can't act because of the above too, fear has been instilled in them that disaster will come to them should they speak about the matter in other words leave it for God

it's just like tithe, majority tithe because they are scared of the devourer

statement like "if you don't tithe, your finances will be tight"

"If you don't tithe, your life will be tight"

"If you don't willingly tithe, you will pay in other ways, your appliances breaking down, hospital bills etc"

There are many more, so some folks don't want this disaster, so they faithfully tithe, take the devourer line out if it & see whether there won't be a massive drop of tithers

From page 0:

DrummaBoy:


The links below provide the reader the first post on each item being discussed. Readers should note that following each link are other posts on the same topic by the trio of trustman, BabaGnoni and DrummaBoy.


F1, FAITH IN FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24336662

F2, GUARANTEED HEALTH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24363909

F3, THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/2#24470530

F4, DEIFICATION OF MAN: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24525863

F5, THE DISTORTION OF THE CROSS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24622666

F6, JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24701718

F7, HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/6#24810984

F8, TITHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24975239

F9, NAME IT, CLAIM IT DOCTRINE: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/8#25164252

F10: SEED FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25322281

F11: STAGED LEG LENGHTENING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25433864

F12: FAKE HEALING SCHOOL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/13#25637320

F13: MERCHANDIZING THE GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/21#25894946

F14: PERSONALIZING THE MINISTRY https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26113280

F15: FEE PAYING CRUSADES AND SEMINARS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26676201

F16: HYPED UP MOTIVATIONAL HUSTLING PREACHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/25#27125546

Discussions still ongoing. Destination point being F20.

I have a good information about fake healing ist is from a german and he speaks about Reinhard Bonnke

http://www.alexanderseibel.de/the_miracles_of_reinhard_bonnke.htm

this is written in english but most of the information on the other pages is in german but wit hte help from google it could be translated and it shows the view of this movement outside america and why it is not very popular in main europa.

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F16: Hyped up motivational hustling preaching[/size]

"You don't have to be eloquent for the truth to set people free, just share it"
- Lecrae

The journey on this thread, so far, is about leaving a record of what the real truth is, as we are in the days prophesied, that a time will come when men will not ensure sound doctrine.

Hyped up motivational hustling preaching is not a doctrine as such, in reality it basically and simply is a glorified "dog and pony" show. It is a glorified "dog and pony" show because the preaching is delivered with lots of style, but 9 times out of 10, it is done not with real content, hence the sweat, saliva, grunt and hustle needed to successfully or convincingly sell or market the preaching.

WoF has many strategies, tactics and schemes all for gaining the trust of the unsuspecting and ultimately their money. Hyped up motivational hustling preaching is one of the crafts perfected well by the WoFists, here is where the use of effective speaking or writing of books are designed to have persuasive or impressive effect, but then often, as earlier mentioned, lack sincerity or meaningful content.

It doesn't rely on hermeneutics nor focuses on identifying and applying sound principles of biblical interpretation but relies on the exploitation of figures of speech and/or other compositional techniques

People are known to pay serious money to buy the books or watch the preacher prancing about the stage or on the pulpit, and making unnecessary fuss surrounding the "preaching", just to get the people stirred to a state of excitement or fervor and subjected to doses of cringeworthy catchphrases such as "watch this, watch this... watch this now", "sit down, sit down, I've got to finish this..." or the self-conceited "don't diss this when I am preaching good" all for the sake of amassing silver and gold.

The tools of the trade used to mesmerize with are "eloquence" (i.e. oratory gift or gift of the gab), "outward appearance" (e.g. creased or gel hair), "dress code" (e.g. white suits, 3/4 length suits etc), "twisted homiletics" or "appearance of savviness", "impressive title/office" (e.g. Apostle, Prophet, GO etctera), "impressive CV" (e.g. letters like Phd at end of name) etcetera

Hyped up motivational hustling is a perversed art of preaching and writing books, a scheme or scam used to fleece the sheeple.

WoFists, WoF zealots, WoF-influenced devotees, adherents are in it for the hustle, period, in it for the money to be made, selling Jesus
TD Jakes and Fireman are on records saying Jesus' is a product and are getting rich using same Jesus as a product.

The drama or "thespian talents" (e.g. Chris Okotie's, TD Jakes' theatrics etc) just provides the setting for false sense of security so the hyped up motivational hustling preaching can have it's full impact by setting listeners up like a lamb for the ker-ching slaughter.

For they say "His letters are authoritative and forcible,
but his personal presence is unimpressive,
and as for eloquence, he has none."
- 2 Corinthians 10:10 Weymouth New Testament

For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel
--not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.
- 1 Corinthians 1:17 NIV

And my language and the Message that I proclaimed were not adorned with persuasive words of earthly wisdom,
but depended upon truths which the Spirit taught and mightily carried home;
- 1 Corinthians 2:4 Weymouth New Testament

Paul is ridiculed in 2 Corinthians 10:10 up there (i.e. obviously compared with Apollos and others), the same happens here too, nowadays, our faith in the undiluted word of God is so low or non-existent that it has been replaced with faith in statures, faith in dignitaries (i.e. my pastor said this, my pastor said that etcetera)

Spurgeon once said:
"... The power that is in the gospel does not lie in the eloquence of the preacher otherwise men would be converters of souls.
Nor does it lie in the preacher’s learning; otherwise it could consists of the wisdom of men..."

Hoping they heed the warning and repent, the Apollos of our time, the eloquent speakers, WoFists, need to be taken aside and explained the way of God more accurately

I REST MY CASE ON F16, FOR NOW.

Babagnoni! I will personally sue you for speaking too much truth on one single thread.

I tip my hat to you bro.