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Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents - Religion (27) - Nairaland

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by feedthenation(m): 3:19pm On Oct 21, 2014
I saw the video link from 2008 and I'm not surprised with the level of deception going on within the pentecostal churches.

It was about the ordination of Apostle Fredrick K.C. Price. What is being done in the video, is it biblical?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwtxWLa5oo#t=61
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 7:01pm On Oct 25, 2014
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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 7:21pm On Oct 25, 2014
feedthenation:
I saw the video link from 2008 and I'm not surprised with the level of deception going on within the pentecostal churches.

It was about the ordination of Apostle Fredrick K.C. Price. What is being done in the video, is it biblical?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwtxWLa5oo#t=61


Obviously nothing wrong in Fredrick K. Price getting ordained an Apostle nau, nor anything bad indulging in all that RCC lingo and paraphernalia
Leroy Thompson (i.e. Money Cometh To Me. Now! fame) too is called or addressed an Apostle.

Yeah, they are following in "Baba's" footsteps nau, remember "Baba" was an Apostle, the first one in his WoF clique,

but we will continue doing what we are doing. This will take away the opportunity of those people who want a chance to be falsely regarded as apostles.

13For such people are false apostles,
deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.
14And no wonder! For Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
15So it is no great thing if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness.
Their destiny will be according to their works.
- 2 Corinthians 11:13 Holman Christian Standard Bible

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by brocab: 2:52am On Oct 26, 2014
Well said:
trustman:
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F8:TITHING [/size]

Bring ye all the money into the church offering plates
that there may be cash enough for ‘God’s anointed’!


We hear or read it all the time: ‘Bring in all your tithe into the God’s storehouse!’, ‘God gave HIS best for YOU, so you should give your best to Him!’, ‘Give so that the windows of heaven will open with BREAKTHROUGH MIRACLES for you!’ etc The coining of such propaganda statements is never-ending.

Tithing was instituted under the Mosaic Law. At the first Council in Jerusalem, which dealt with whether the Gentiles were required to OBEY the Mosaic Law, the divine position was this: “For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you NO GREATER BURDEN THAN THESE requirements: that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.” (Acts 15: 28-29).

How come then that many leading preachers particularly in the WoF movement aggressively push the issue of tithing with the carrot approach and where that does not seem to work for them go for the STICK? Is that position given by the Holy Spirit at the Jerusalem Council still relevant for today or has it been set aside? The issue for the Christian therefore is this: “Whose report will you believe?” Is it the position of the infallible word of God or the teaching of men? If the word of God says ‘no burden’, whether of tithes or firstfruits, etc and man says ‘You must pay tithes, firstfruits, etc’ which one do you want to choose no matter the eloquence in presentation or glowing testimonies of results of following man’s methods? The issue is that of either freedom in Christ or a yoke of slavery by men.

One of the most tragic aspects of this Word of Faith movement is that most of the people involved have never taken time to really study to see if the doctrines of the movement have Biblical support: they have simply brainwashed themselves into accepting the propaganda spewed out to them. This in my opinion is truly unfortunate.


Why did God institute the tithe?
The tithe was used basically to feed the Levite priests (and their families) who were required to work in the temple day and night ministering to God on behalf of God’s people.
Numbers 18: “21 “I give to the Levites all the tithes in Israel as their inheritance in return for the work they do while serving at the tent of meeting. 22 From now on the Israelites must not go near the tent of meeting, or they will bear the consequences of their sin and will die. 23 It is the Levites who are to do the work at the tent of meeting and bear the responsibility for any offenses they commit against it. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come. They will receive no inheritance among the Israelites. 24 Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the Lord. That is why I said concerning them: ‘They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.’”

1 Chronicles 9:33: “33 Those who were musicians, heads of Levite families, stayed in the rooms of the temple and were exempt from other duties because they were responsible for the work day and night”.

In contrast to the other tribes of Israel who were given land as their inheritance, the Levites were not given any land. God was their inheritance – Numbers 18:20: “The LORD said to Aaron, “You will have no inheritance in their land, nor will you have any share among them; I am your share and your inheritance among the Israelites”.. As a result, the other tribes were required to provide the Levites with food since they had no land of their own to farm on. This provision of food for the Levites became the tithe.

Now, when it comes to the church, has God specifically given this same kind of instructions? The answer is NO! Is there anyone in the church that God has commanded today not to do any other work but work in the ‘temple’? The answer again is NO! In fact, there is no physical temple for the church today. Rather the individual believer is now the temple of God – “Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?” (1 Corinthians 6:19). The much application we can make is that, if tithe were still obtainable today (and it is not so), the place to bring it is to the individual believers. Again, which of the tithe proponents preach this today? None!

It must be noted that there were later on other types of tithes which others ate from and the fact that NOT ALL IN THE LAND of Israel paid tithes.

We shall examine below some of the arguments advanced by tithers and see how far they conform to the Word of God.

The “Abraham paid tithe to Melchizedek” Argument (Genesis 14:18-20) – Tithing by ‘faith’?
Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek is used as a justification by pro-tithers for the Christian to tithe. The mention and link between Melchizedek and Jesus in Hebrews 5 – 7 is also used by them to rationalize its import into the New Covenant. However, a close look at Hebrews shows that the author is NOT writing in support “tithe” though it is talked about a number of times. Instead, by comparing Jesus to Melchizedek the writer is EMPHASIZING Jesus as our eternal high priest/king. Nothing in that portion suggests the need for or a continuation of tithing. In fact, the writer of the book of Hebrews actually talked about the end of the Levitical priesthood under which the issue of tithing obtained. Another thing to note from Genesis 14:18-20 is plainly that Melchizedek did not ask Abraham for a tenth of the plunder. How is it then that today’s ministers can read Genesis 14:18-20 and use it to ask for tithe, when Melchizedek did not ask for a tithe? In addition nothing in the Genesis passage suggests that God gave it as a command to Abraham to tithe as He did with circumcision.

The “God Does Not Change” Line of reasoning
Some others say that since God does not change the tithing He instituted still stands for today. But is this really so? While it is true God does not change, it is a poor argument to use on behalf of continuing the tithe. It is true that God does not change but first, what does that mean? Does it mean once he institutes a system he is not at liberty to change it or that his NATURE is unchanging? Secondly, if the reasoning that “God Does Not Change” is a valid basis to keep one part of the Law – the tithe – then it is a valid reason to keep ALL of the law ( see Galatians 5:3 ). Then we should have Burnt offerings and sacrifices on the altar of every church! Even tithing of money is totally alien to Scripture so then we should not tithe money. Why should anyone use that argument to justify keeping only ONE aspect of the Law.
When God set up the LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD He set aside the previously existing system of family priesthood: So God can change a system. When the Levitical Priesthood was instituted EVEN A KING could not take up the priestly function as we find in Uzziah’s case in 2 Chronicles 26: 16 – 23. It was that serious to God.
Believers are now under the New Covenant of Grace, and are subject neither to pre-law customs, such as in Abraham’s day, nor the ordinances of Mosaic Law. Those dispensations are past. Only deceitful preachers still claim we’re under at least ONE of the 613 laws of Moses! Why the focus on ONE of the laws without clear explanation as to how that one law still stands and the rest have become obsolete (since none of the rest is pushed by them as they do tithing)?


Rebuke of the Scribes and Pharisees case
Jesus reprimanded the Scribes and Pharisees for painstakingly giving a “tithe/tenth” of their “mint, dill and cumin”, while disregarding the more important matters of the law: “justice, mercy, faithfulness (Matthew 23:23).

Once again, there are several problems with using this scripture to support the tithe as applicable to Christians today.
• Giving a different interpretation of “mint, dill, and cumin” (food items) to mean “money”. Why convert food items as tithe to money as tithe?
• Jesus was speaking directly to the Scribes and Pharisees – who are Jews – under the Mosaic Law – and obligated by the Law to tithe. Jesus was NOT talking to Gentiles (non-Jews).
• Jesus makes it clear that the "tithe" is a "matter of the law". Since Christians who are “In Christ” have fulfilled the law in Him (Colossians 2:8-23) the Law is NO LONGER applicable to Christians.


On the issue of the threat of death and hell
Many of the WoF preachers in Nigeria have used this threat approach to coerce their hearers or readers to pay tithe. Name ANY of the famous names in the Word of faith movement worldwide or here in Nigerian and you see those who use this ‘guerrilla’ tactic to pressure Christians to pay tithe. They put believers on guilt-trip even where the Scripture says they have been called into freedom.
If the Christian were still required to obey any portion of the law for him to avoid death or hell, then the death of Jesus on the cross did not pay the full price for sin. In that case we cannot say ‘Jesus paid it ALL!’ But it should be clear to any Christian that our salvation depends on faith alone in Christ alone and not upon the observance of any law. Why therefore any minister will teach anything in the law as the spiritual life for the church makes one wonder whether these are ministers of the New Covenant or of something else. Yet Paul clearly stated in Galatians 3: 10 – “For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse …” (SO WHO IS REALLY UNDER A CURSE ACCORDING TO THE NEW COVENANT?) Galatians 3:11 – “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith” So again the question is: ‘If refusal to do tithing will take one to hell what does that say of Jesus’ death on the cross?’

How come no tithe preacher does Acts 2:44, 45 and Acts 4:35?
Here the Bible says “And all who believe were together and had all things in common. And they were selling their possessions and belongings and DISTRIBUTING THE PROCEEDS TO ALL, AS ANY HAD NEED”(Acts 2:44,45); “And laid it at the apostles’ feet, AND IT WAS DISTRIBUTED TO EACH AS ANY HAD NEED” (Acts 4:35”
We see that whatever was received by the church was shared with all, at least those who clearly had needs. But no tithe preacher today does this; rather he would be the one to determine how to use it for ‘ministry work’ which almost always excludes the believers who are right there with him in the local church.
Many prosperity preachers present the idea that ministry requires physical structures - vehicles, buildings, equipments, etc. Maybe, but those items and ministry are not the same. Those items do not accomplish ministry - people accomplish ministry. In fact, the church did not have physical structures until hundreds of years after it began. The reality is that if each believer in any congregation is equipped to do ‘ministry’ work through the taking in of sound doctrine more results will come to such a local assembly than ‘organized’ programmes.
How come no preacher of tithing emphasizes the fact that church age believers are all ROYAL PRIESTS and so are equally qualified to share in or receive of the tithes that come into the church? After all, is we are to apply the OLD TESTAMENT setting it was ONLY the priests and Levites that received tithe, therefore Christians as God’s royal priests today should ALL share in the tithes.

What the Law demands
For those who choose the route of keeping the law, of which tithing is a part, God’s requirement for getting a pass mark is 100% adherence to ALL the requirements of the law. This was the point James 2: 10 makes clear – “For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it”. The Law required strict adherence to ALL its tenets. Whoever keeps most of the law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. So, failing in one point, as far as the law was concerned, means breaking ALL of it! Therefore any Christian today who keeps one or two aspects of the law such as tithing and thinks he is accepted by God on that basis is making a big mistake. So if you tithe, you are obligated to keep the whole law. That is what the Bible says. Maybe you can now begin to see the seriousness of this matter!

No Apostle wrote the church to tithe
Apostle Paul, the writer of the book of Hebrews, Apostles Peter, James and John all wrote to church age believers, yet not one of them wrote on this issue of tithing that many today claim will be of great “blessings” to the Christian who practices it or some others say can be a “curse” that could take the Christian to hell when not done. How did they ever come to miss out on this so “important” matter?

The plain truth is that all that is truly critical or important for the Christian way of life has been given to us in the writings of these apostles. On the other hand anything not given to us by these men but propagated today as critical to the Christian’s spiritual life is man-made and will be wood, hay and stubble at the evaluation throne of Christ.

The Christian stands on a better footing today
The giving of money by the Christian is part of his worship of God. In giving then, the Christian is expected to stand upon the grace relationship he has with God (2 Cor. 8:1, 7) not on any forced system.

The guideline for Christian giving to God today is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."

Those principles in the law still required for today are certainly found in the New Testament epistles. And in the epistles we find that tithing, like Sabbath observance and animal sacrifices, is never imposed on the believer. To the extent that tithing IS NOT PRESCRIBED ANYWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT EPISTLES we can safely say that it is no longer compulsory for the Christian today.

To insist that the Christian (not the Jew or Israel) is required to pay tithe today when no portion of the Bible states so is a great perversion of scripture. To seek through all kinds of gimmicks to force the believer to do that which God himself has not stated is nothing but downright EVIL.

I REST MY CASE ON F8, FOR NOW.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by brocab: 2:59am On Oct 26, 2014
How can man declare this one is an apostle. when these gifts only come from God.
feedthenation:
I saw the video link from 2008 and I'm not surprised with the level of deception going on within the pentecostal churches.

It was about the ordination of Apostle Fredrick K.C. Price. What is being done in the video, is it biblical?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwtxWLa5oo#t=61

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by pickabeau1: 8:26pm On Oct 26, 2014
DrummaBoy:
The links below provide the reader the first post on each item being discussed. Readers should note that following each link are other posts on the same topic by the trio of trustman, BabaGnoni and DrummaBoy.


F1, FAITH IN FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24336662

F2, GUARANTEED HEALTH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24363909

F3, THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/2#24470530

F4, DEIFICATION OF MAN: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/4#24525863

F5, THE DISTORTION OF THE CROSS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24622666

F6, JESUS DIED SPIRITUALLY: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/5#24701718

F7, HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/6#24810984

F8, TITHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24975239

F9, NAME IT, CLAIM IT DOCTRINE: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/8#25164252

F10: SEED FAITH: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25322281

F11: STAGED LEG LENGHTENING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/12#25433864

F12: FAKE HEALING SCHOOL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/13#25637320

F13: MERCHANDIZING THE GOSPEL: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/21#25894946

F14: PERSONALIZING THE MINISTRY https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26113280

F15: FEE PAYING CRUSADES AND SEMINARS: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/23#26676201

F16: HYPED UP MOTIVATIONAL HUSTLING PREACHING: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/25#27125546

Discussions still ongoing. Destination point being F20.

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Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 8:07pm On Oct 28, 2014
MILLIONAIRE PASTORS... POOR MEMBERS

by Victor Oyeleke

There is no doubt that church business is very lucrative.

The overwhelming number of churches in Nigeria is a testament of how profitable owning a church is and if that is not enough evidence, then perhaps the recently published list of the top 10 richest pastors in the world where the top earner, Pastor David Oyedepo, is estimated to have a networth of $150m should suffice.

While the notion of soul-saving preachers with humble earnings and possessions is currently quite surreal and almost fictional, it was the norm until the healing revivals of the 1950s. When a group of
pentecostal evangelists such as William Branham, Kenneth Hagin, Oral Roberts and A. A. Allen embraced an understanding of faith as an activator that unleashed spiritual power. At the same time, they understood the Bible as a source of God’s laws and covenants that gave believers specific rights and privileges.

Over the years, this teaching was revamped and made more sophisticated. Preachers shifted from the “God of fire and brimstone” to a more appealing one of “grace and prosperity”. It gained worldwide prominence and prominent preachers like Chris Oyakhilome, David Oyedepo, Chris Okotie and Matthew Ashimolowo are keeping the movement strong in Nigeria.

This brand of Christianity advocates behaving like children of the kingdom by dressing like queens and kings, thinking positively, and believing it is your right as a child of the kingdom to be rich and you should partner with God by faith to pursue riches.

The heart of the principle of this teaching seems to be exclusively reliant on you using something to get something.

Though you could give God your time and other non-material things, money seems to be the most acceptable form of payment to unlock the blessings of
heaven. It almost has the undertone of taking from the devil.

These preachers sell the gospel as the pathway to riches. Feeding the desire of their followers to be rich even though it is contrary to what Paul said in 1 Timothy 6:6-10.

To support their theory, they use themselves as examples testifying of the turnover they made from sowing seeds. Dr. Mike Murdock is well known for this tactic.

Motivated by stories of financial gain, out of the little they have, members pay their tithes and then go through the rigmarole of seed sowing. They sow the seed, water it, weed it and even fence it. The seed then become more important than seeking the kingdom of God. Matthew 6:33- “But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.”

While giving is not wrong per se, a majority of these prosperity preachers are living a luxurious life off their poor members who are in dire need of help.

Owning a multimillion-dollar private jet just to “oversee churches” to quote Pastor Adeboye while some members are living in poverty is acceptable by these preachers.

Being accustomed to life of luxury, some preachers with branches in the west gets carried away and spends church funds at will, which eventually lands them in murky situations.

While Christ Embassy is currently under investigation for alleged mismanagement of funds, the British government ordered Pastor Matthew Ashimolowo to pay back £200,000 in 2006 after it emerged that he used church assets to buy a £13,000 Florida time share and spent £120,000 on his birthday celebrations, including £80,000 which was spent on a car.

Pastor Ayo Oritsejafor is currently embroilled in the controversy of how his private jet was used to ferry $9.3 million seized by the South African government. He is a friend of government as well as National President of Christian Association of Nigeria (CAN).

Though members should be responsible for the needs of their pastors, making giving money a prerequisite for receiving from God is punitive.

It is a safe bet that a congregation with less than 500 members would surely have testimonies of people reaping from sowing but not everyone would experience such gain. However, those who did not reap from sowing are not given a refund rather they are encouraged to sow more and believe more. The onus is placed on them and not the preacher who spoke confidently about the powers of sowing and they are thrust into a perpetual circle of giving and
believing while the preachers travel the world in private jets, drive in fully air conditioned cars, send their children to the best schools and have the best of everything.

The height of the irony is that; members cannot afford to send their children to the schools they helped establish and majority of these preachers benefited from free missionary schools.

Charity, which is a foundation of Christianity seems to have absconded. Even those claiming to be involved in charity are just using it as a façade. The church is now a market hub,
everything is for sale. It is all about the cha-ching! cha-ching!! And if you do not have loads of it, then you are relegated to the bottom of the food chain.

I wonder what Jesus Christ would do if he walks into a church today.

Culled from www.tribune.com.ng/sunday-zest/item/18342-millionaire-pastors-poor-members/18342-millionaire-pastors-p

Articles listing world richest pastors:
www.richestlifestyle.com/top-10-richest-pastors-in-the-world/

4 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 8:48pm On Oct 31, 2014
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

A few years ago I stumbled on a you-tube video of Benny Hinn explaining the circumstances that led to his wife filing for divorce. The Word of Faith minister had made the video for his "Partners" explaining that the divorce was not as a result of infidelity on his part. (See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6AvsdjwlN4). His marriage has since been restored. What I could not help but noticing in that video was the earnestness in trying to convince his partners that he didn't commit sexual sin. One could sense the apprehension that if he didn't do that, he would loose their financial support. This is just one of many examples of the WoF doing everything for gain. F13, Merchandising the gospel, has shed great light on the matter of WoF selling the gospel for money. This is just an extension of that discuss, as in this case, deceptive means are employed to get money from people.

One leading means of deception for pecuniary gain is through doctrine. The Word of Faith minister teaches scripture in a deceptive manner to make money. Ranging from tithing, firstfruits, prophet's offering, covenant giving, offerings, project support, minister's welfare support that include organizing birthday bashes for the pastor, etc, the WoF minister will find scriptures that will conveniently hoodwink people to give. There are no short supply of scriptures to be used. What I find intriguing though is that no matter how much is given, it is never enough. They continue to demand; and the people continue to give.

trustman and BabaGnoni will shed greater light on this subject. I will stop here.

I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

3 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 12:24pm On Nov 01, 2014
DrummaBoy:
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

A few years ago I stumbled on a you-tube video of Benny Hinn explaining the circumstances that led to his wife filing for divorce. The Word of Faith minister had made the video for his "Partners" explaining that the divorce was not as a result of infidelity on his part. (See
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6AvsdjwlN4). His marriage has since been restored. What I could not help but noticing in that video was the earnestness in trying to convince his partners that he didn't commit sexual sin. One could sense the apprehension that if he didn't do that, he would loose their financial support. This is just one of many examples of the WoF doing everything for gain. F13, Merchandising the gospel, has shed great light on the matter of WoF selling the gospel for money. This is just an extension of that discuss, as in this case, deceptive means are employed to get money from people.

One leading means of deception for pecuniary gain is through doctrine. The Word of Faith minister teaches scripture in a deceptive manner to make money. Ranging from tithing, firstfruits, prophet's offering, covenant giving, offerings, project support, minister's welfare support that include organizing birthday bashes for the pastor, etc, the WoF minister will find scriptures that will conveniently hoodwink people to give. There are no short supply of scriptures to be used. What I find intriguing though is that no matter how much is given, it is never enough. They continue to demand; and the people continue to give.

trustman and BabaGnoni will shed greater light on this subject. I will stop here.

I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

This is the thread of the year that is making all kinds of waves. It's easy to see how loaded it is, isn't it?
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 3:11pm On Nov 02, 2014
trustman, DrummaBoy and BabaGnoni,

I humbly request a twenty-first item on your Word of Faith thread titled:

21. Word of Faith Despises God's Sovereignty.

The responses to nannymcphee's on Gombs thread necessitates this. Please consider it.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 7:19pm On Nov 02, 2014
DrummaBoy:
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISION ON F1: FAITH IN FAITH OR FAITH AS A FORCE[/size]

I introduce to you my first exhibit on the subject of force of faith, Napoleon Hill. I shall be showing how the concept of a force of faith is more in keeping with New Thoughts practice than scriptures. This is what wikipedia says of Hill:

Napoleon Hill (October 26, 1883 – November 8, 1970) was an American author in the area of the new thought movement who was one of the earliest producers of the modern genre of personal-success literature. He is widely considered to be one of the great writers on success.[1] His most famous work, Think and Grow Rich (1937), is one of the best-selling books of all time (at the time of Hill's death in 1970, Think and Grow Rich had sold 20 million copies).[2] Hill's works examined the power of personal beliefs, and the role they play in personal success. He became an advisor to President Franklin D. Roosevelt from 1933 to 1936. "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve" is one of Hill's hallmark expressions.[3][4] How achievement actually occurs, and a formula for it that puts success in reach of the average person, were the focal points of Hill's books.

Key points:

1. A New Thought teacher

2. His famous quote: "What the mind of man can conceive and believe, it can achieve"

Note a chapter from his book in my next post and compare these to what WOF teachers preach. I am compelled to reproduce the whole chapter. For those who find the long text difficult to read, you may skimp through reading the bolded.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 10:11pm On Nov 28, 2014
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

Essentially a Pecuniary Advantage involves money; it is an added monetary benefit gained by being richer than previously was the case.

It has become common to hear preaching and read books propagating the idea that pastors are to be the CEOs as well as Chief Accounting Officers of their churches. In practice this is what obtains in many owner-founder churches. What the combining of these two positions mean is that the pastor is solely responsible for how the church finances are utilized. As a result the decision as to how money is spent is done by them. Employing such money for personal use therefore becomes easy for such pastors. This is in addition to other means employed these pastors to fleece their sheep for personal pecuniary advantage.

As recently as this October 2014 news reports carried the warning of the Chairman of the Lagos chapter of Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN), warning that the body will not hesitate to separate itself from any church leader within the body who involves in extra-biblical practices for the purposes of making pecuniary gains.

This goes on to show that the issue of obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception is very much around with us.

In the said report the PFN Chairman warned pastors against using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members, he said the time had come for the body to act fast against any pastor that indulges in such practice.

This warning was not just to prevent such from happening but because, according to the Chairman, some pastors have actually been found to collect consultation fees before counseling and prayers. Other things done include sale of sand, mantle, olive oil that is purportedly from Israel and asking members to give certain amount of money from which they are told they will get ten times the money at specific time.

Many now refer to pastors as “pastorpreneurs” inferring that they have turned their calling into business enterprise. Many pastors are said to use their large membership to bargain for favours and other advantages from political leaders especially in an election year. The ostentatious lifestyles of some pastors seem out of place with the economic realities of the moment and that of the poor majority of their congregation.

As recently as 21 November, 2014 Pope Francis went against priests who are “attached to money”. He was said to have condemned at a mass priests and laity who impose unreasonable charges for weddings, baptisms, blessings and other services. He is reported to have said that “It is scandalous when the Temple, the House of God, becomes a place of business …”


A recent post on Nairaland brought this matter very close:

Marchman:
From Al Akhigbe from the forum, Where is Rev Anita Oyakhilome on FB

ALWAYS MONEY MATTERS

''Esteemed Group Pastor,

Warm greetings in the matchless name of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.Amen.
Congratulations on the just concluded International Pastors and Partners Conference.IPPC.
I have been directed by our highly esteemed Zonal Director, Pastor ----------- to remind you of your Financial commitment to offer 7, the birthday of our dear Man of God, Pastor Chris Oyakhilome, Phd.
The minimum target for each Group is ten million Naira only (N10,000,000.00) .

Kindly note that the money is expected on or before 2nd December as you are aware that the birthday is on the 7th of December.
Thank you for your outstanding commitment to the vision of our ministry.
Signed-----''

Now, the above letter just hit my email box. And I thought I should share a thought or two for the benefit of those who don't know why we are doing what we are doing.

Now, in this zone, there are twelve groups plus the zonal church. The twelve groups will give a total sum of N120,000,000.00 and the zonal church will give N100,000,000.00 making a total of N220,000,000.00 (equivalent of approximately USD $1.3 million dollars). Let us assume every zone in Nigeria alone gives $1 million dollars each, about $30 million dollars will accrue to one man. Ghana will give big, SA will not lag behind et cetera. Tell me why the man will not play God? This is aside the personal effects that will be sold on that day for tens of millions of dollars. Why should such a man admit to wrongdoing or take correction from a mere mortal? It can only take God to bring him to his kneels.
Ironically, those being fleeced of these monies are suffering and shouting hallelujah while our apostles live in flagrant luxury. Some businesses have grounded, homes broken, people pauperized because of these ungodly extortions. Giving is a Godly principle that works for Christian, pagans, Muslims, Buddhists, anyone and anywhere. But these manipulated exploitation of God's people is certainly not of God.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, how many times did Jesus celebrate his birthday? Okay, birthday was not in vogue then. We knew some people WILLINGLY ministered to Him of their substances. But how many times did Jesus call for donations or give his disciples targets to meet to enable Him run His ministry? Oh, I forgot, Jesus was too divine for such. Then, can someone show me which of the apostles or disciples that did it? All the doctrines of giving that is enforced in this ministry are borrowed from the old testament. When it concerns money, old testament is applied. But when it concerns righteousness, you are reminded that old testament have been abolished. That is why every iniquity they commit are explained away in the concept of sin.

As I explained in my book Acts Of Our Apostles, one of the major reasons most African nations are poor is the rate at which our churches mop up money from circulation. The already poor people are dispossessed of their meagre incomes to the tune of billions of dollars every year, not to be invested in any beneficial project for them, but to provide luxury and thin god status for the pastors. Offer 7, Offer 1,2,3 to 31 are all avenues for filthy lucre. Any endeavour that has no benefits to mankind is futile.

Source: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=355387424640529&id=265251816987424


https://www.nairaland.com/2014407/exposed-pst-chris-caught-asking#28330302

When church members are ‘DIRECTED’ to contribute a fixed amount towards their pastor’s birthday, money which MUST be raised before a particular date, that is NO LONGER a willing giving. It has become an order or a command to give toward the birthday. It is no longer following 2 Corinthians 9:7 “Each one must give as he has decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver”. It is the exact opposite of it. And all these are for the pecuniary advantage of the pastor or his ministry.

I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 11:09pm On Nov 28, 2014
trustman:
- the post original here removed -
As recently as this October 2014 news reports carried the warning of the Chairman of the Lagos chapter of Pentecostal Fellowship of Nigeria (PFN), warning that the body will not hesitate to separate itself from any church leader within the body who involves in extra-biblical practices for the purposes of making pecuniary gains.

This goes on to show that the issue of obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception is very much around with us.

In the said report the PFN Chairman warned pastors against using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members, he said the time had come for the body to act fast against any pastor that indulges in such practice.
- the post original here removed -
It's no secret naija politicians read Nairaland Politic forum incognito
so the jokingly implying that the PFN Chairman too "must have been reading the WoF thread" LOL
- it's about time those in the "inside" come clean, admit the rot and repent of it

2 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by vooks: 6:33am On Nov 29, 2014
Not sure if this was captured, but the oft flaunted wealth and lifestyle of the MoG to demonstrate the efficacy of prosperity gospel is a tad dishonest. The ministers wax fatter regardless of the junk they preach. Closely related to this is the impression of a pastor 'sacrificing' their salaries for the sake of the gospel. What they never reveal are the many non-official income streams they enjoy by way of 'prophet's seed','honorarium' and many gifts in kind they receive from members.

An average member is not entitled to these privilleges yet this is conveniently hidden from them. They end up giving even more looking forward to enjoy the same prosperity which is impossible.

3 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 9:42am On Nov 29, 2014
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]

The LORD makes some poor and others rich; he brings some down and lifts others up.
- 1 Samuel 2:7 NLT

Pecuniary is anything that has to do with money, relating to money or consisting of money, so then, obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception, simply implies obtaining monetary advantage(s) or getting financial advantage(s) by deception

Obtaining pecuniary advantage(s) by deception, is one of the best kept secret of a WoF indoctrinated/influenced set-up
It is acquiring of money, wealth or riches, for personal gain, through lies, fantasy and psychobabble (i.e. using psychology and human wisdom to wrest money from their members - © trustman)

WoF jihadists wouldn't admit this fact without a struggle but obtaining financial advantage(s) by deception is the numero uno means most WoFist or WoFtrepreneurs use to feather their nests, grow their bank accounts and create wealth getting rich off God’s own people

Obtaining financial advantage(s) by deception is carried out by hook or by crook and be not bothered with morality or conscience when committing it

Don't take this the wrong way. The perpetrators are no better than crooks, only privileged to be armed with the holy book, using scripture(s) for a licence to kill, steal or destroy and living like kings on other people’s money.

Funny and weird thing is, 9 out of 10 WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs all started out virtually flat out broke, barely had two bald pennies to rub together, then boom, all of a sudden the good life

Have any ever wondered how some WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs set up ministries with no physical congregation or without on-the-ground members but still manage to afford jets, drive luxurious cars, put on designer wears, sport fat bulky rings, live in high gated electric barbed-wire fenced up palatial residences etc?

WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs will prance the stage and declare they are wealthy and have no need or do not need the unsuspecting listener/hearer's money
WoFists or WoFtrepreneurs boast that they are rich, are already made and achieved the trappings of wealth from tapping into the anointing, activating faith and receiving blessings thereafter.
They talk with excessive pride and self-satisfaction about how rich they are and how they never can be broke again.

WoFtrepreneurs say they are rich and would never be broke ever again, that they are living proofs, showing beyond doubt that one can have money or make money by following the prosperity formula (e.g. sowing "seed" into: another WoFtrepreneur's life, into ministries, into a MoG etc) to get rich.
For this reason, they parade themselves as rich, flaunt their prosperity or put on a show, to get the admiration and attention of the unsuspecting and IMPLYING that the the unsuspecting too can get rich

Strutting on the pulpit or altar before God and men boasting about being so rich and all compared to others, is virtually the same as devilish arrogance

WoFtrepreneurs fuel by their greed, ego, love of money and pursuit of wealth, leave out that it’s a sham prosperity and lie they are "selling".

At least everyone knew that Judas was dipping his fingers into the money-bag and stealing out of the treasury,
the sad reality is that not all know, that WoFtrepreneurs are are obtaining money by deception from God’s people.
Many children of God struggle with this exposé and many sons of God do not want believe or know this exposé, but this is dealing with the difficulty and rising to the challenge of being our brothers and sisters, warning them by taking off the balaclavas worn by WoFtrepreneurs.

Well this exposé will not only remove the balaclavas but will also lift the lid and reveal how WoFtrepreneurs get rich with money obtained from unsuspecting sheeple, members, listeners or onlookers, how WoFtrepreneurs get rich by cunning practices and craftiness to feed their greed and fund their luxurious lifestyles.

Most WoFtrepreneurs did not become rich or wealthy by following any prosperity formula, instead they became wealthy by building up a group of people (i.e. large membership) SEDUCED into passionately believing the prosperity formula and then sell prosperity formula promoting products, schemes etcetera to the unsuspecting members, listeners or onlookers.

In order for this exposé to sink in and for the need to understand this pattern, will repeat that most WoFtrepreneurs did not become rich early on, from investing in real estates, by dabbling into business ventures etc, they became rich by selling and hyping prosperity formula-promoting books, tapes/VHS/CD/DVDs, fee paying motivation seminars, fee paying self-help conferences, fee paying singles classes etcetera to unsuspecting, captured and cajoled prosperity formula believers.

This same pattern is practiced some churches and by Christian leaders using the prosperity formula and playing well the prosperity gospel game. Some churches are now into another mutation or variant of the prosperity formula which is birthday gift extortion
- the pawns in the game and the captive market are the unsuspecting church members or congregation.

Here are some of the exposé and/or secrets WoFtrepreneurs definitely do not want others to know, knowing these secrets will make one understand the general pattern behind the WoFtrepreneurs tricks

It is a perfected craft that WoFtrepreneurs use to transfer money out of unsuspecting sheeple's pockets into their pockets.

Why WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers always suggest or hint that one "plant seed in the soil of the WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers' garden" is that WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers want ones money-seed to make them, the WoFtrepreneurs or prosperity preachers, rich or prosperous.

WoFtrepreneurs achieve this, by telling countless stories of seed faith miracles. This all done to get the unsuspected fired up and sow their best "seed" after which the "seed" (i.e. money) is collected by the WoFtrepreneurs, and off to the bank vaults they go.

The poor desperate giver then goes home expecting a supernatural harvest of that seed that never comes. The fact is though, that the WoFtrepreneur(s) is booking personal private jet(s), a Caribbean Islands cruise, Harley-Davidson bikes, golf course excursion/trip, building projects in home town etcetera and the unsuspecting members, listeners etc are still in need.

If the above stories of seed faith miracles doesnt work, then WoFtrepreneurs will hire fellow WoFtrepreneurs and/or pay experts to teach in their gathering, this to pick at the guilt of the unsuspecting members, listeners or onlookers and manipulate them into giving out their seed-money

The reason why the "poor desperate giver then goes home expecting a supernatural harvest of that seed that never comes" is because the prosperity formula does not work as the WoFtrepreneurs teach, for they, the WoFtrepreneurs teach it from an incorrect viewpoint, for wrong, selfish and ulterior motives.

Giving the wrong and deceptive impression that giving seed-money is what gives financial rewards or paying tithes etcetera is what blocks or prevents spiritual punishments(s) is outright misleading and bad when actually giving advice that money taken and invested in genuine works of God (e.g. James 1:27 etcetera) is part of what makes one rich and prosperous, is on point and good.

God is not against wealth and prosperity. No, don't get this twisted, it's not wrong to be rich or to have money, but it is wrong for money to have one or to have signatures like, "Location: Where the money is".

There are no short cuts to riches or wealth, no quick turnaround, no magic etcetera and definitely no such thing banded out to be prosperity formula, as according Deuteronomy 8:17-18, stating paraphrased below:

Otherwise, you may say in your heart. You may say to yourself, "My power and the strength of my hands have produced this wealth for me.
Remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth or power to get wealth.

The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy:
- John 10:10a KJ Bible

[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F17: OBTAINING PECUNIARY ADVANTAGE BY DECEPTION[/size]
I REST MY CASE ON F17, FOR NOW.

5 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nora544: 10:34am On Nov 29, 2014
I just see a new way to get money out of his followers

Adeboye make an advertisement about a book on his facebook

Get a Copy of Be The Best, Be The Very Best by @PastorEAAdeboye now on Amazon Store . Click the link http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXU1P7Y

People bought it but didnot get anythink. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXU1P7Y

Book Description
Publication Date: June 8, 2014
Be The Very Best is a book that talks about God's purpose for your life. It is about been not the best but the very best. First Place is better than Second Place just as Gold is far more valuable than Silver. So in life if you want to be the best, strive to be the very best. This book written by Pastor E.A Adeboye (General Overseer, RCCG WorldWide) shares with us the secrets on how to become the very best in life.

It's coming to a month now and the book hasn't Downloaded yet!!!! I have done everything I can and they keep on telling me there is an error!!!! And worse still I can even purchase a new one I need help!!

I know it is only small money but when you have many people who will buy it he will get much money.

He always write My Father in heaven
My Father says I should tell you, you have knocked on that door of success/promotion before and they said No. Go back now and the answer will be YES. Because ‪#‎JESUS‬ has made a way.

I learn that it is our father in heaven and not only the father of Adeboye or has he an other God.

3 Likes

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by WinsomeX: 9:11pm On Nov 29, 2014
Thank you BBG for the new vocabularies. I like "WoF Jihadist" the most. Very apt.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nannymcphee(f): 11:03pm On Dec 21, 2014
nora544:
I just see a new way to get money out of his followers

Adeboye make an advertisement about a book on his facebook

Get a Copy of Be The Best, Be The Very Best by @PastorEAAdeboye now on Amazon Store . Click the link http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXU1P7Y

People bought it but didnot get anythink. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KXU1P7Y

Book Description
Publication Date: June 8, 2014
Be The Very Best is a book that talks about God's purpose for your life. It is about been not the best but the very best. First Place is better than Second Place just as Gold is far more valuable than Silver. So in life if you want to be the best, strive to be the very best. This book written by Pastor E.A Adeboye (General Overseer, RCCG WorldWide) shares with us the secrets on how to become the very best in life.

It's coming to a month now and the book hasn't Downloaded yet!!!! I have done everything I can and they keep on telling me there is an error!!!! And worse still I can even purchase a new one I need help!!

I know it is only small money but when you have many people who will buy it he will get much money.

He always write My Father in heaven
My Father says I should tell you, you have knocked on that door of success/promotion before and they said No. Go back now and the answer will be YES. Because ‪#‎JESUS‬ has made a way.

I learn that it is our father in heaven and not only the father of Adeboye or has he an other God.

Sincerely I don't know what your issue is with ministers of the gospel!!

If a man has 4 kids & one of them makes a statement to the other three, that " my father says" he has in no way implied that his father isn't their father also, just that he is laying emphasis

when the the prophet cried out, Elisha or Elijah, can't remember which he said "my father my father...."

wasn't he the God of the whole Israel? Why didn't the prophet say our father?
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by nora544: 9:30am On Dec 23, 2014
nannymcphee:


Sincerely I don't know what your issue is with ministers of the gospel!!

If a man has 4 kids & one of them makes a statement to the other three, that " my father says" he has in no way implied that his father isn't their father also, just that he is laying emphasis

when the the prophet cried out, Elisha or Elijah, can't remember which he said "my father my father...."

wasn't he the God of the whole Israel? Why didn't the prophet say our father?

soory when you don't understand it I am against this selling of the gospel and when you read people payed for a book from adeboye and got nothing and that is for me scam, that shows me that he is a fake 419 Pastor he want to build his own empire not more, he is not better than the other pentecost/charismatic money loving preachers from Nigeria and america.
Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by ibinaboonline: 9:03pm On May 26, 2018
trustman:
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size]




BabaGnoni has given details of how WoF teaches on Jesus Died Spiritually. These include that Jesus took on the nature of Satan, was dragged to hell to be tormented of Satan, became re-created in spirit and born again. Here we will see how the Scripture portrayed the how and the what of Jesus’ death on the cross.


“Behold the lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world” – John 1:29.

John the Baptist made this statement referring to Jesus. Here John refers to Jesus as ‘the lamb’. In this picture John hoped to vividly show Israel what Jesus represented. In particular Israel was to be immediately reminded of both the ‘Passover lamb’ and other lambs, usually males, used in the Levitical offerings.

The Levitical offerings foreshadowed the work of Jesus Christ on our behalf. God specified in the offerings what were acceptable to Him. In particular the animal sacrifices were to be “without blemish”. In other words, without any defects – (cf. Hebrews 9:14, 1 Peter 1:19).

In these offerings we see God sparing the guilty sinner and accepting a substitutionary sacrifice. Once the animals met God’s requirements they were acceptable to him as offering. Jesus Christ became our substitute like the animals were in the rituals for Israel.

Jesus personified the ‘male without blemish’ required in the ritual sacrifices, and offered himself to be judged for the sins of the world; "How much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God” (Hebrews 9:14) See also Hebrews 10:1-14.

When Jesus was being judged for the sins of mankind he did not become less than perfect. In other words, He did not become less than “a lamb without blemish”. If that were so, he would be disqualified from being an offering that was “a sweet savour unto the Lord (cf.Leviticus 1:13).

Therefore Jesus did not take on a satanic nature at the cross. As the sin offering under the New Covenant he remained pure, righteous and holy on the cross.
• 1 Peter 3:18 – “For Christ also suffered once for sin, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death
in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”
• Hebrews 10:10 – “And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all”
• Colossians 1:21,22 – "And you, … …he has now reconciled in his body of flesh by his death, in order to present you holy and blameless
and above reproach before him”

None of the thieves on the cross could have satisfied God the Father’s requirement for a perfect sacrifice – none of them! The efficacy of any death in producing the result that will satisfy God depended on the fact that that life offering itself up in death MUST be “a lamb without blemish”. No other human being could qualify to be that. If that does not make you realize and appreciate the greatness of Christ’s work on your behalf, nothing will!

Just as God showed through the Levitical offerings under the Old Testament that an acceptable substitute had to be “without blemish”, Jesus Christ, the reality that the rituals represented, was a pure and holy offering under the New Covenant. At no time did he acquire a ‘nature’ that would have made him an unqualified sacrifice to God for humanity’s sin problem.

Also Satan DOES NOT LIVE IN ‘HELL’; not now, not yet. So a portrayal of physical hell as Satan’s abode for now has no support of Scripture. If he were in control there – in hell – that will contradict the fact that it is a place of punishment that God himself administers to the unregenerate. Would we assume than that God is in partnership with the Devil on this?

If what the Word of Faith proponents' claim regarding what Jesus became is true, then that would mean that Christ’s work on the cross was not effective. But that is not so because in the book Revelation when Apostle John wept he was calmed down and told [b]“… … Weep no more; behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, has conquered, so that he can open the scroll and its seven seals”[/b] (Rev. 5:5). In the subsequent verses we see who this ‘Lion of the tribe of Judah’ is; he is the one who was “slain, and by your blood you ransomed people for God”(v.9). Jesus was a perfect sacrifice from the beginning to the end. At no time did he become imperfect then to later regain ‘perfection’.
Your view as expressed here is so so flawed and so so wrong. You don't seem to get it. I'm sorry I didn't join in this very important discussion on time. Here's hoping you'd complete back to it. Yes Jesus is the lamb, the sinless lamb that was slain. Think about, it's why any Tom, Dick or Harry can't be the proipitation for sin. Obviously, only the strong can save the weak, isn't it? So yes, only a perfect offering will do, thus Jesus was the perfect candidate. But what happens to the lambs used as sin offering in the old testament? They are killed. When they are killed/slain, they obviously are no longer blameless. In fact, in the old testament the Bible reports that the priest would lay hand on the animal's head thus transferring the people's transgressions on it. Then the animal is discarded OUTSIDE the city gates. Why? It's now a cursed animal but it was without blemish when it was selected. So yes Jesus was without sin, but He who knew no sin was made sin for us... thats actually scripture. Crucified, He became an embodiment of our downfall. I do believe He did go to hell. If He didn't, why would the Bible say He made captives of evil spirits and made a spectacle of them? There's no question He became extremely dirty on that cross- no question. Even His father separated from Him just like sinners are separated from God. Jesus cried to God on the cross, 'why have you forsaken me?' Did David not say he had never seen the righteous forsaken? If Jesus was still righteous on the cross would God forsake Him? I actually came to this thread to support my disappointment in our current preachers only to realize that Jesus died spiritually makes perfect sense. I can't counter what I can see is true. I'm open to what is true. I encourage everyone not to be afraid because it sounds insulting to the person of Jesus that He died spiritually, instead let it lead you to marvel at the weight of what He did for us. The weight of our importance to Him. It's insulting enough to even connect Him to any kind of death at all but He did -for us! I do not agree with a lot of things our preachers say which is why I came here in the first place, but for truths sake, if Jesus didn't go to hell, then we will.

1 Like

Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by brocab: 4:20pm On Jun 23, 2018
No it isn't biblical, by their fruit we will know them!
{Ephesians 4:10-12} He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.
The Lord chooses our ministry, the Lord chose the 12 apostles, even after Judas, by their fruit we will know them.
"Does this new apostle raise the dead? Back then the apostles had a job to do, Jesus gave them the gift to raise the dead, heal the sick, let the blind see, and cast out demons-Would you say this new apostle ordained by whom, is working miracles to edify the body of Christ?
feedthenation:
I saw the video link from 2008 and I'm not surprised with the level of deception going on within the pentecostal churches.
It was about the ordination of Apostle Fredrick K.C. Price. What is being done in the video, is it biblical?
What are these ordained priest doing what the Catholic Church aren't doing, the Catholic Church ordains saints, they ordain priest, who can forgive sins.
Pentecostal churches are not just the Word of faith movement, Pentecostal's are dealing with wolves in sheep clothing-Xcons-car salesmen, religious fornicator's.
{2 Thessalonians 2:10-12} And with every wicked deception directed against those who are perishing, because they refused the love of the truth that would have saved them. For this reason, God will send them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie, in order that judgment will come upon all who have disbelieved the truth and delighted in wickedness.…
God gives us the desires of our hearts, Fredrick K.C. Price belongs to the Word of faith error: they claim to be Pentecostal, the head of the Word of Faith movement Kennith Copeland returned himself back to the Catholic Church, taking his Church with him, so it's not surprising who is ordained and who is not! "These men and women preaches about the things the world could only offer, "Material merchandise! It was the Word of faith that prayed Trump into power, before him, Obama..Does Trump really believe God, did Obama believe?Does the Word of Faith believe?
Think about it, the Church needed an apostle, apostles are all the above, Prophets, teachers, evangelist, Pastors "a new door had opened, stunts like these are only played, because the Church these days are always looking for ways to bring in a better income, the Church today is about "Material merchandise!
feedthenation:
I saw the video link from 2008 and I'm not surprised with the level of deception going on within the pentecostal churches.

It was about the ordination of Apostle Fredrick K.C. Price. What is being done in the video, is it biblical?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnwtxWLa5oo#t=61

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