#Yawn

Commendable Empiree, but you didn't meet my demand. You simply listed out the acts that you 've been performing in salat sequentially then attached a hadith to each act. I mean modify your post, eliminate every word leaving behind only the Ahadith. You 'll just have acts in salat, the sequence of performing these acts will be missing and a novice will be left clueless; On how to start, when to conclude, what is even a raka', can he go down for prostration straight from standing before before bowing? The truth is, unless you have prior experience of salat, you can't just gather these scattered narrations on salat acts from several hadith books and hope to connect these act, performing the acts sequencially as muslims do today.

Give me an hadith that explain stepwisely how salat can be performed as the Quran 5:6 explain ablution acts in sequence.

Then again, there is only one reference to Quran(33:56) in your post, which isn't credible as the interpretation is flawed. Get us an evidence that Muhammad was taught Salat as Abraham was(21:73), afterall if we are to learn salat from him then it is only logical that God had taught him.

There is also the problem of contradicting ahadith.
In one hadith, it is required to recite atleast few verses in salat after Chapter 1. But i 've seen hadith that reports that reciting only fatiha is acceptable.


In the whole of Sahih Bukhari for instance, there is no description of Salat at all. Bukhari rejected every other hadith outside his collection, how then did Bukhari do his salat.

In your first hadith, it is reported that the Prophet said, "pray as you see me pray". This hadith doesn't describe or teach salat. One of the later hadith you cited imply variation in salat of women. This is a contradiction to the first hadith which requires muslims to pray as they saw the Prophet did, regardless of gender. There other are other contradictions, some of which don't involve the hadith you quoted.

Even for your hadith on ablution, there are contradictory hadith. There is hadith where the Prophet 's ablution consisted of only four steps as in Quran 5:6 and there is hadith were the Prophet or his companions performed as common today, leaving off only the ears.

Finally, you said typing that response was painstaking. Well, i don't know if its me but there seem to exist a striking resemblance between your post and another i found on sunni forum.

usermane: Commendable Empiree, but you didn't meet my demand. You simply listed out the acts that you 've been performing in salat sequentially then attached a hadith to each act. I mean modify your post, eliminate every word leaving behind only the Ahadith. You 'll just have acts in salat, the sequence of performing these acts will be missing and a novice will be left clueless; On how to start, when to conclude, what is even a raka', can he go down for prostration straight from standing before before bowing? The truth is, unless you have prior experience of salat, you can't just gather these scattered narrations on salat acts from several hadith books and hope to connect these act, performing the acts sequencially as muslims do today.

Give me an hadith that explain stepwisely how salat can be performed as the Quran 5:6 explain ablution acts in sequence.

Then again, there is only one reference to Quran(33:56) in your post, which isn't credible as the interpretation is flawed. Get us an evidence that Muhammad was taught Salat as Abraham was(21:73), afterall if we are to learn salat from him then it is only logical that God had taught him.

There is also the problem of contradicting ahadith.
In one hadith, it is required to recite atleast few verses in salat after Chapter 1. But i 've seen hadith that reports that reciting only fatiha is acceptable.


In the whole of Sahih Bukhari for instance, there is no description of Salat at all. Bukhari rejected every other hadith outside his collection, how then did Bukhari do his salat.

Now, I understand why you dont understand Quran. But for the sake of this forum, may I ask you how you pray obligatory salat?. Then I will move on from there. It looks like you read something upside down somewhere. Yes, some are pasted......that's towards the end. And what I typed out are from the books i have here with me. Majority of those are in ablution section and up to half prayer part.

We have to become a people who celebrates the Quran, learns the Quran, thinks about it deeply, ponders on it, studies its tafsir in depth, and studies its language in depth. May Allah make us a people who are connected to His Book the way we are supposed to be connected to it. That is my duaa for the ummah.

-Ustadh Nouman Ali Khan

I am just blown away by an ayah, I just studied... SubhanAllah,

tbaba1234: I am just blown away by an ayah, I just studied... SubhanAllah,

Can we share the treasure please?

Empiree:
Now, I understand why you dont understand Quran. But for the sake of this forum, may I ask you how you pray obligatory salat?.

Really? I still have to go over how i perform my salat after posting it earlier and having you all class it as ignorance?

You learnt your salat from hadith, so how come those hadith were mainly instructions on how to prostrate, sit, bow or stand, what about the sequence or order in which these acts are to be performed. If i as a novice collect all the hadith books, at best i 'll have a fair idea of what salat entails but because i can't find procedure, a sequence in which the acts are performed my salat may vary from what is commonly known. I believe you can't just teach aliens how to shoot, how to pass, throw, cross or kick off and assume they can have a football match as humans do. When do they shoot, when do they cross, what do they do after a goal etc... are important facts they must be taught too.

The contradictions i uncovered, the question i asked werent addressed in your last post. You guys may dub me ignorant, misguided, hypocrite and all you please. But my questions still remain

1. Which evidence have you got that God taught Muhammad salat?

2. Which hadith teach salat by giving you the sequence or order in which you perform the acts(bow, stand, sit etc)?

3. What about the contradicting Ahadith?

TheBigUrban2:


Ehem......also address the claims of there being "Islamic Economics"



I am on the side that there is no such thing as islamic economic (finance, yes but not economics that can run a nation's economy)

Sissie and Empiree are on the side that islamic economics exists

You know when those two talk of Islam, they actually refer to their religion which is heavily based on oral traditions ascribed to the Prophet, the so called biographies of the Prophet, Quranic exegesis, teachings and practiced of their ancient and revered clergymen.

By Islam, i mean the Quran and no there is no such thing as Islamic economics although an economic related matter like compound interest is mentioned.

usermane:

You know when those two talk of Islam, they actually refer to their religion which is heavily based on oral traditions ascribed to the Prophet, the so called biographies of the Prophet, Quranic exegesis, teachings and practiced of their ancient and revered clergymen.

By Islam, i mean the Quran and no there is no such thing as Islamic economics although an economic related matter like compound interest is mentioned.

@Their religion or their perspective of the religion or is it not your religion? Or is the "their religion" isn't islam?

So compound interest is the only related matter in the Quran? So usury (measurement) , Zakat (tax) etc isn't mentioned this isn't part of economics?

Theirs is a difference between economic systems and economics.
Economic system is a branch of economics, just like finance

I can't be bothered to correct big urban on that as he's not an intellectual par for me to argue with, and even if I use a layman explanation for him he still won't understand it.

usermane:
Really? I still have to go over how i perform my salat after posting it earlier and having you all class it as ignorance?

You learnt your salat from hadith, so how come those hadith were mainly instructions on how to prostrate, sit, bow or stand, what about the sequence or order in which these acts are to be performed. If i as a novice collect all the hadith books, at best i 'll have a fair idea of what salat entails but because i can't find procedure, a sequence in which the acts are performed my salat may vary from what is commonly known. I believe you can't just teach aliens how to shoot, how to pass, throw, cross or kick off and assume they can have a football match as humans do. When do they shoot, when do they cross, what do they do after a goal etc... are important facts they must be taught too.

The contradictions i uncovered, the question i asked werent addressed in your last post. You guys may dub me ignorant, misguided, hypocrite and all you please. But my questions still remain

1. Which evidence have you got that God taught Muhammad salat?

2. Which hadith teach salat by giving you the sequence or order in which you perform the acts(bow, stand, sit etc)?

3. What about the contradicting Ahadith?

I have to get really busy in a few. I will inshallah return to this as soon as possible. Before then, I dont think I saw your post on how you perform salat. Can you post the link?. Can you write hadith contradiction in Bukhari you meantioned including numbers?. As for sequence of Salat, is story of Adam(as) told in one chapter or spreads out of the Quran?. I will be back here later.

Sissie:

@Their religion or their perspective of the religion or is it not your religion? Or is the "their religion" isn't islam?

So compound interest is the only related matter in the Quran? So usury (measurement) , Zakat (tax) etc isn't mentioned this isn't part of economics?

Theirs is a difference between economic systems and economics.
Economic system is a branch of economics, just like finance

I can't be bothered to correct big urban on that as he's not an intellectual par for me to argue with, and even if I use a layman explanation for him he still won't understand it.

GBAM! He does not even know there was such a thing as Roman economy!

However far a person has swum from the shore of Islam, still be hopeful. Miracles happen to people. Each of us is a living witness to that!

-Sheikh Abu Eesa

usermane:

You know when those two talk of Islam, they actually refer to their religion which is heavily based on oral traditions ascribed to the Prophet, the so called biographies of the Prophet, Quranic exegesis, teachings and practiced of their ancient and revered clergymen.

By Islam, i mean the Quran and no there is no such thing as Islamic economics although an economic related matter like compound interest is mentioned.

Thank you. Short simple and precise.


Salaam

Empiree:
Can we share the treasure please?

It is about the victory at hudaibiyah. Requires long explanation.

Sissie:

@Their religion or their perspective of the religion or is it not your religion? Or is the "their religion" isn't islam?

So compound interest is the only related matter in the Quran? So usury (measurement) , Zakat (tax) etc isn't mentioned this isn't part of economics?

Theirs is a difference between economic systems and economics.
Economic system is a branch of economics, just like finance

I can't be bothered to correct big urban on that as he's not an intellectual par for me to argue with, and even if I use a layman explanation for him he still won't understand it.

lmao......see frustration!!! zakat, riba = economics? lol


And now, you are indirectly accepting that there is no economic model/system in the Quran.


The difference between economics and an economic system is marginal because an economic system (Capitalism/socialism) contains ALL ECONOMIC INDICES OR ECONOMICS TERMINOLOGY.


I just dey laugh!!

vedaxcool:
GBAM! He does not even know there was such a thing as Roman economy!

Roman economy??


Lmao

This one has no idea what he is talking about. When they talk about "economy" in terms of romans, historians are using it in layman's terms to explain how resources were managed in the roman empire. They did not have an "economy" per se

The first recorded sense of the word "economy" is in the phrase "the management of œconomic affairs", found in a work possibly composed in a monastery in 1440

. "Economy" is later recorded in more general senses, including "thrift" and "administration".
The most frequently used current sense, denoting "the economic system of a country or an area", seems not to have developed until the 19th or 20th century.

Sissie:

@Their religion or their perspective of the religion or is it not your religion? Or is the "their religion" isn't islam?

My bad, you 're right. 'Their perspective of the religion' would be more appropriate.

Sissie:
So compound interest is the only related matter in the Quran? So usury (measurement) , Zakat (tax) etc isn't mentioned this isn't part of economics?

Isn't compound interest interchangeable with usury?
Zakat has nothing to do here. It is not a state tax.
Simply tell us that there are Islamic principles that must be kept while running an economic system. It is more accurate than using the term Islamic Economics.

usermane:

Simply tell us that there are ISLAMIC PRINCIPLES that must be kept while RUNNING an ECONOMIC system. It is more accurate than using the term Islamic Economics.

I thought "Islamic economics" referred to an economic system based on Islamic principles?


PS: I'm not a graduate of Economics though #Layman

Empiree:
Can we share the treasure please?

A summary:

Truly We have opened up a path to clear triumph for you [Prophet], (Surah 48:1)


Alright, so in azhab, the quraish gathered tribes in arabia to fight against the muslim... the only thing saving the muslims from complete anahiliation was a trench which ensured that the calvary could not pass with their horses.

On the other hand, banu qurayda was within the city from the side, colluding with enemies to attack the muslims from the other side...

Allah describes this situation as one of extreme fear.

They massed against you from above and below; your eyes rolled [with fear], your hearts rose into your throats, and you thought [ill] thoughts of God. There the believers were sorely tested and deeply shaken: (Surah azhaab: 10-11)

The quraish camped outside medina, it was only a matter of time that the muslims will run out of food supplies and have to surrender... Allah sent winds that destroyed the camp of the tribes that they had no choice but to abandon the mission.

Six months later,
The prophet has a dream that they were performing the rites of umrah peacefully..
He tells his companions and they head towards mecca to perform umrah with no weapons...

Imagine this, a few months ago, these guys were just coming to destroy you. Now you are going straight into the lion's den
You are going there with no weapons
Just the small knife used to sacrifice the animal.
No shields, no swords.. nothing
The quraish got wind of this and sent khalid bin waleed with about 200 horsemen to intercept them.
The prophet heard of this and changed course. Either way, they got to hudaybiya..
Uthman (RA) was sent to the quraish
He was held back, rumour begins to spread that he has been killed...
The prophet hears this, he is enraged. He gets the sahaba ready to fight. They make the oath under the tree. Remember these men had only a small knife to fight.. Now these men are enraged and primed for war.
So they have gone through extreme emotions,
Extreme fear, extreme anger, extreme courage..


Eventually, they find out that uthman was not killed.. the peace treaty, was agreed by the messenger which seemed to go against the muslims.

Imagine the muslims just spent weeks walking from Medina to Mecca, without doing what they were intended to do.

Imagine, you are going to hajj after all the preparation and immediately, you get to Mecca, you are told to turn back.

Not only that, the messenger agreed to what seemed like demeaning conditions to the muslims.

Now you have a mob scenario... lots of angry, frustrated young men, the crowd is in a frenzy.. imagine you shoot into the air, and a crowd begins to run in all directions, If you scream stop!!! are they likely to stop??

Unlikely

The Messenger asks the crowd to remove their ihram, and there is no response.. He goes into his tent and his wife essentially tells him to lead by example ..

As he does this, the crowd follows him....

Allah calls this hudaybiya: clear evident victory...
What does Allah mean by this??

The primary victory at hudaybiya was of the hearts, inspite of the extreme levels of anger and frustration that was felt, they still followed the instruction of the messenger.

Inspite, of the extreme levels of vulnerability, they still took an oath to stand and fight with him.

The real victory was that of the heart.

Today, muslim face similar frustrations around the world. Our real victory comes by obeying Allah and his Messenger regardless of how angry, we may feel about the conditions of the muslims....

Secondarily, the treaty eventually led to the capture of Mecca..

However, capture of land in the quran is usually seen as a lesser victory.. The real victory is of the hearts..

That is the challenge for muslims today. Discipline to follow Allah's instructions inspite of our emotions..

Hkana:

I thought "Islamic economics" referred to an economic system based on Islamic principles?


PS: I'm not a graduate of Economics though #Layman

That is the issue- islamic principles only deal with a small part of finance. There are no islamic principles that relate to 99% of an economy

tbaba1234:

A summary:

Truly We have opened up a path to clear triumph for you [Prophet], (Surah 48:1)


Alright, so in azhab, the quraish gathered tribes in arabia to fight against the muslim... the only thing saving the muslims from complete anahiliation was a trench which ensured that the calvary could not pass with their horses.

On the other hand, banu qurayda was within the city from the side, colluding with enemies to attack the muslims from the other side...

Allah describes this situation as one of extreme fear.

They massed against you from above and below; your eyes rolled [with fear], your hearts rose into your throats, and you thought [ill] thoughts of God. There the believers were sorely tested and deeply shaken: (Surah azhaab: 10-11)

The quraish camped outside medina, it was only a matter of time that the muslims will run out of food supplies and have to surrender... Allah sent winds that destroyed the camp of the tribes that they had no choice but to abandon the mission.

Six months later,
The prophet has a dream that they were performing the rites of umrah peacefully..
He tells his companions and they head towards mecca to perform umrah with no weapons...

Imagine this, a few months ago, these guys were just coming to destroy you. Now you are going straight into the lion's den
You are going there with no weapons
Just the small knife used to sacrifice the animal.
No shields, no swords.. nothing
The quraish got wind of this and sent khalid bin waleed with about 200 horsemen to intercept them.
The prophet heard of this and changed course. Either way, they got to hudaybiya..
Uthman (RA) was sent to the quraish
He was held back, rumour begins to spread that he has been killed...
The prophet hears this, he is enraged. He gets the sahaba ready to fight. They make the oath under the tree. Remember these men had only a small knife to fight.. Now these men are enraged and primed for war.
So they have gone through extreme emotions,
Extreme fear, extreme anger, extreme courage..


Eventually, they find out that uthman was not killed.. the peace treaty, was agreed by the messenger which seemed to go against the muslims.

Imagine the muslims just spent weeks walking from Medina to Mecca, without doing what they were intended to do.

Imagine, you are going to hajj after all the preparation and immediately, you get to Mecca, you are told to turn back.

Not only that, the messenger agreed to what seemed like demeaning conditions to the muslims.

Now you have a mob scenario... lots of angry, frustrated young men, the crowd is in a frenzy.. imagine you shoot into the air, and a crowd begins to run in all directions, If you scream stop!!! are they likely to stop??

Unlikely

The Messenger asks the crowd to remove their ihram, and there is no response.. He goes into his tent and his wife essentially tells him to lead by example ..

As he does this, the crowd follows him....

Allah calls this hudaybiya: clear evident victory...
What does Allah mean by this??

The primary victory at hudaybiya was of the hearts, inspite of the extreme levels of anger and frustration that was felt, they still followed the instruction of the messenger.

Inspite, of the extreme levels of vulnerability, they still took an oath to stand and fight with him.

The real victory was that of the heart.

Today, muslim face similar frustrations around the world. Our real victory comes by obeying Allah and his Messenger regardless of how angry, we may feel about the conditions of the muslims....

Secondarily, the treaty eventually led to the capture of Mecca..

However, capture of land in the quran is usually seen as a lesser victory.. The real victory is of the hearts..

That is the challenge for muslims today. Discipline to follow Allah's instructions inspite of our emotions..

Indeed the best Jihad which is the most difficult to accomplish is Jihad-e-Nafs (struggle against self).

May Allah bless Muhammad, his purified family and righteous among his companions.

Nice lesson. May Allah give us His Tawfeeq to understand His book more.

Thanks for sharing that.

tbaba1234:

A summary:

Truly We have opened up a path to clear triumph for you [Prophet], (Surah 48:1)


Alright, so in azhab, the quraish gathered tribes in arabia to fight against the muslim... the only thing saving the muslims from complete anahiliation was a trench which ensured that the calvary could not pass with their horses.

On the other hand, banu qurayda was within the city from the side, colluding with enemies to attack the muslims from the other side...

Allah describes this situation as one of extreme fear.

They massed against you from above and below; your eyes rolled [with fear], your hearts rose into your throats, and you thought [ill] thoughts of God. There the believers were sorely tested and deeply shaken: (Surah azhaab: 10-11)

The quraish camped outside medina, it was only a matter of time that the muslims will run out of food supplies and have to surrender... Allah sent winds that destroyed the camp of the tribes that they had no choice but to abandon the mission.

Six months later,
The prophet has a dream that they were performing the rites of umrah peacefully..
He tells his companions and they head towards mecca to perform umrah with no weapons...

Imagine this, a few months ago, these guys were just coming to destroy you. Now you are going straight into the lion's den
You are going there with no weapons
Just the small knife used to sacrifice the animal.
No shields, no swords.. nothing
The quraish got wind of this and sent khalid bin waleed with about 200 horsemen to intercept them.
The prophet heard of this and changed course. Either way, they got to hudaybiya..
Uthman (RA) was sent to the quraish
He was held back, rumour begins to spread that he has been killed...
The prophet hears this, he is enraged. He gets the sahaba ready to fight. They make the oath under the tree. Remember these men had only a small knife to fight.. Now these men are enraged and primed for war.
So they have gone through extreme emotions,
Extreme fear, extreme anger, extreme courage..


Eventually, they find out that uthman was not killed.. the peace treaty, was agreed by the messenger which seemed to go against the muslims.

Imagine the muslims just spent weeks walking from Medina to Mecca, without doing what they were intended to do.

Imagine, you are going to hajj after all the preparation and immediately, you get to Mecca, you are told to turn back.

Not only that, the messenger agreed to what seemed like demeaning conditions to the muslims.

Now you have a mob scenario... lots of angry, frustrated young men, the crowd is in a frenzy.. imagine you shoot into the air, and a crowd begins to run in all directions, If you scream stop!!! are they likely to stop??

Unlikely

The Messenger asks the crowd to remove their ihram, and there is no response.. He goes into his tent and his wife essentially tells him to lead by example ..

As he does this, the crowd follows him....

Allah calls this hudaybiya: clear evident victory...
What does Allah mean by this??

The primary victory at hudaybiya was of the hearts, inspite of the extreme levels of anger and frustration that was felt, they still followed the instruction of the messenger.

Inspite, of the extreme levels of vulnerability, they still took an oath to stand and fight with him.

The real victory was that of the heart.

Today, muslim face similar frustrations around the world. Our real victory comes by obeying Allah and his Messenger regardless of how angry, we may feel about the conditions of the muslims....

Secondarily, the treaty eventually led to the capture of Mecca..

However, capture of land in the quran is usually seen as a lesser victory.. The real victory is of the hearts..

That is the challenge for muslims today. Discipline to follow Allah's instructions inspite of our emotions..

Kai......see whitewashed history.


Western people say "history is the version that the powerful/victors want you to hear"

TheBigUrban2:


Kai......see whitewashed history.


Western people say "history is the version that the powerful/victors want you to hear"

@underlined! Slave mentality. Why western people say? Victors are not only the conquers of history!

There might be victory in defeat for a right course. And there might be defeat in victory!

I wonder how an Atheist wanna understand Quran
"This is the Book (the Quran), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun"

AlBaqir:

@underlined! Slave mentality. Why western people say? Victors are not only the conquers of history!

There might be victory in defeat for a right course. And there might be defeat in victory!

I wonder how an Atheist wanna understand Quran
"This is the Book (the Quran), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqun"

I'm a slave to no one.

The verse you quoted says that there is no doubt in the Quran's guidance.


Erm, doubt is the cornerstone of common-sense. What is belief without doubt?

Hkana:

I thought "Islamic economics" referred to an economic system based on Islamic principles?

IMO, when you say Islamic economics, it is supposed to be a broad term that discusses import, export, exchange, tax, loans, security, stock, shares etc. And so far no one has provided verses or oral traditions that treat these issues specifically.

usermane:
IMO, when you say Islamic economics, it is supposed to be a broad term that discusses import, export, exchange, tax, loans, security, stock, shares etc. And so far no one has provided verses or oral traditions that treat these issues specifically.

usermane:
IMO, when you say Islamic economics, it is supposed to be a broad term that discusses import, export, exchange, tax, loans, security, stock, shares etc. And so far no one has provided verses or oral traditions that treat these issues specifically.

Actually the whole thing just turned to be "Islamic economics". His initial question i believe was "Islamic Economy Policy".

Emphasis is on bold. Islam definitely has that (both written and oral). No religious text you will find discussing specifics: import, export, exchange, tax, loans, security, stock, shares
. The religious policy is a guide on this. Perhaps, Mr. Urban can truly learn by researching sirat of Prophet Muhammad(s) on trade. Trade may be similar to or a form of micro-economy in those days and perhaps in our time. It's up to us today to embroidering the scope of ayat of Quran on this. It's very silly to be asking for a single "ayah" of Qur'an over this. @Usermane, Urban is playing fool and you fall for it. Qur'an is meant for men of understanding 10:24 not deaf, dump and blind (8:22).

And correct me if i am wrong. Trade conducted in the time of the Prophet(saw) either btw him and others or community at large is no different from macro economic we have today. World population was not 6 billion then. Besides, I gave him videos many of which talked about Islamic economy polices but he turned the other way and looking for solitary ayah. Well, I certainly have no issue with Urban. He's a living truth of Islam's irresistible. He keeps coming to muslim section (for whatever his intention), may Allah guide him. Amin

Empiree:

Actually the whole thing just turned to be "Islamic economics". His initial question i believe was "Islamic Economic Policy".

Emphasis is on bold. Islam definitely has that (both written and oral). No religious text shall you will find discussing specifics: import, export, exchange, tax, loans, security, stock, shares
. The religious policy is a guide on this. Perhaps, Mr. Urban can truly learn by researching sirat of Prophet Muhammad(s) on trade. Trade maybe similar to or a form of micro-economy in those days and perhaps in our time. It's up to us today to embroidering the scope of ayat of Quran on this. It's very silly to be asking for a single "ayah" of Qur'an over this. @Usermane, Urban is playing fool and you fall for it. Qur'an is meant for men of understanding 10:24 not deaf, dump and blind (8:22).

And correct me if i am wrong. Trade conducted in the time of the Prophet(saw) either btw him and others or community at large is no different from macro economic we have today. World population was not 6 billion then. Besides, I gave him videos many of which talked about Islamic economy polices but he turned the other way and looking for solitary ayah. Well, I certainly have no issue with Urban. He's a living truth of Islam's irresistible. He keeps coming to muslim section (for whatever his intention), may Allah guide him. Amin

see frustration!!!

usermane: On Salat-hadith,

At this point, I think it's safe to give up discussing this or any similar issues at length. I honestly see no point. I went through your NL archives and notice that "many" muslims have actually talked to you on several issues. And this is August 2014, you are where you are or worst still (I dont mean you worst but on critical issue that other advised you on). https://www.nairaland.com/1501204/how-true-narrations-sahih-bukhari . I see different faces (non-frequent muslim NLers that I am not familiar with) said the same thing i have said to you. No wonder everyone seems to leave us alone to sort it out.
So my point is if you couldn't listen then you wont listen now. So i see no point debating over peanut. As you can see, regardless of sects muslims on NL claim, we all still gang up on you because you go against common creed. We are not asking you follow everything in Hadith nor do I.
You seemed to be saying "salam" and using arabic connotations before. You even claimed to be muslim last year. Now you said you are not a 'muslim' in order to differ from Muslims. Thats a waste of time. Surah Hajj 78 clarifies that. It seems the more Muslims talk to you, the more left-wing extremist you can be. I gleaned this from the thread. Remember it?

usermane:

For record, if you dont mind, can you post hadith in Bukhari you claimed contradicts others?. I beg to differ. You probably looking at something else. If Bukhari, Muslim and other narrators differ on Salat, that would have been obvious today. But no, all Muslims pray the same in obligatory salat. Anyways, nice talking to you on this. And please dont get me wrong. You doing very good when it comes to searching and quoting Quran. But this is like threading religion. Doesn't necessarily mean knowing it. This may cajole novice. Let me give you word of advice upon ayah of Qur'an.

"And whoever opposes the Messenger after guidance has become clear to him and follows other than the way of the believers - We will give him what he has taken and drive him into Hell, and evil it is as a destination". This ayah is actually talking about rebellious Muslims or pseudo Muslims as far as I know. This ayah includes many things you said that really out of line including shariah and all that. May God guide us and you. Amin

@Empiree, you've tried your best with username. Man is actually capable of blocking or opening the path of his reasoning. Quran is guidance for mankind (sura al-Baqara) but For Quran to be a guide for anyone, the person has to have a certain degree of fear of God and inner conscience (al-Baqara:2, Yasin:11).

Username remind me of the children of Israel described in the Quran. Despite clear evidence right before their eyes, they denied many prophets sent to them and continue to find fault with them.

"We do not send messenger but to be obeyed by God's permission..." ~Quran 4:64

The prophet (peace be on him and his family) is not physically in our midst today but the reality of his teachings and practice is evident and preserved.

If to some degree username believe in the Quran being revealed to the prophet (peace be on him and his family) despite the fact that there is no God's and Muhammad's signatures therein; if he believe in the preservation of the Quran through memory and writing by various companions of the prophet (peace be on him and his family), I wonder why he failed to believe in the teachings and practice of the prophet (peace be on him and his family) preserve through memory, physical practice and transmission by the same companions
A time is nigh when even Quran will be questioned and criticized by him.

"Allah guides whom He wills..." ~Quran. It is not by random selection or simply exercising His authority thereby looks unjust. His actions and will go along with His wisdom. Quran highlights "those whom He choose/will" in several places e.g "innallaha yuhibul muttaqin, innallaha yuhibu muhsinin, etc

I commend you for a job well done and a reasonable man call it quit when there is defiance in the heart of whom you dialogue with.

Wa salam alaykum.