Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,143,302 members, 7,780,706 topics. Date: Thursday, 28 March 2024 at 08:05 PM

Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station - Islam for Muslims (30) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station (244024 Views)

Janet Jackson Converts To Islam For $20 Million Wedding / ~* Deols is 2011 'Islam For Muslims' Section Poster Of The Year: Congrats~* / 'Islam For Muslims' Library (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) ... (27) (28) (29) (30) (31) (32) (33) ... (232) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 12:01pm On Sep 27, 2014
AbdH: What happened here? Most of the comments are hidden.
A mad man, famous for creating different monikers posted pictures of n.a.k.e.d.n.es.s and he got me upset and i had to report him.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 4:41pm On Sep 27, 2014
Ultra-Orthodox Jews delay flight for New York to Israel because they do not want to sit next to women.
http://nypost.com/2014/09/26/ultra-orthodox-jews-delay-flight-refuse-to-sit-next-to-women/
Jews got some balls
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 8:43pm On Sep 27, 2014
Empiree, that the content of a hadith is proved true or correct doesn't make it truely the word of the Prophet. Have you got any other hadith to substantiate this hadith? What is this hadith number? It is no where to be found in Hameed 's kitab al fitan.

http://makashfa./2014/07/24/kitab-al-fitan-by-nuaim-bin-hammad-first-view/

There is no indication in the chain that it was first delivered from the Prophet. The common phrase to indicate that by the companion, "i heard from the Apostle...." is missing here. It seem the fabricator wary of the punishment for attributing lies to a Prophet. Thus he attribute it to Ali, afterall most people will take it as the Prophet 's word as long as it is called 'hadith'. The fabricator is also given away by the content of the hadith. How can the Prophet prophesy on the arrival blood thirsty murderers like ISIS but yet instruct us remain where we are and not move our limbs instead of confronting and fighting them off?

The implication is clear, ISIS have been killing Iraqis/Syrians here and there, while the rest of the middle east have remained where they are, yet to move their hand or feet to defend their poor neighbours. This an hadith fabricated most likely in anticipation or emergence of ISIS. It is a subtle device to appeal to muslims while keeping oppositions off ISIS path to guarantee a calculated outcome for the enemies of humanity.

These hadith on black flags has been used to decieve muslims several times. In 1979, another hadith on black flags from Khorasan(Afghanistan) was invoked by the Jihadists during the Soviet-Afghan war. Even ISIS supporters invoke hadith on black flags.


Kitab al Fitan
And al-Hasan ibn Sufyan and Abu Nu'aym narrated from Thawban [radhiyallahu 'anhu] that he said: "The Messenger of Allah [sallallahu 'alayhi wa-sallam] said: "The black banners will come from the east, with hearts like iron bars. So whoever hears of them, let him go to them and give them bay'ah, even if he must crawl over ice."

NB: All hadith on black flags call for support of the holders. Only tbaba1234 's latest hadith is an exception. I smell a rat.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 9:11pm On Sep 27, 2014
^ full reference:

Narrated by Nu’aym ibn Hammad in Kitab Al-Fitan, Hadith no. 573.

2 Likes

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by sino(m): 10:50pm On Sep 27, 2014
^In fact, i just got a link from a post on a forum which is about 14 years ago and downloaded a pdf copy of the book, it is there, hadth no. 573.
@usermane, the hadith was not attributed to the Prophet (SAW), it was conspicuously attributed to Ali (r.a) .
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 11:01pm On Sep 27, 2014
sino: ^In fact, i just got a link from a post on a forum which is about 14 years ago and downloaded a pdf copy of the book, it is there, hadth no. 573.
@usermane, the hadith was not attributed to the Prophet (SAW), it was conspicuously attributed to Ali (r.a) .

Another example:

Ibn Shaybah narrated with his Isnaad from Ya'la ibn 'Ata that his father said, "I was holding the reins of Abdullah ibn 'Amr (r.a.) and he said: "How will you be when you destroy the House (Ka'abah) and do not leave one stone on top of another? They asked, "Will we still be Muslims?" He said, "You will still be Muslims." They asked, "Then what?" He said: "Then it (the Ka'abah) will be rebuilt in the most beautiful way. When you see tunnels built in Makkah and you see its buildings taller than its mountains, know that the matter (The Hour) is close at hand." (Akhbaar Makkah: Jayyid report)


This narration was attributed to a companion as well and it is very accurate. There is one common denominator. The Prophet of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by sino(m): 11:23pm On Sep 27, 2014
tbaba1234:

Another example:

Ibn Shaybah narrated with his Isnaad from Ya'la ibn 'Ata that his father said, "I was holding the reins of Abdullah ibn 'Amr (r.a.) and he said: "How will you be when you destroy the House (Ka'abah) and do not leave one stone on top of another? They asked, "Will we still be Muslims?" He said, "You will still be Muslims." They asked, "Then what?" He said: "Then it (the Ka'abah) will be rebuilt in the most beautiful way. When you see tunnels built in Makkah and you see its buildings taller than its mountains, know that the matter (The Hour) is close at hand." (Akhbaar Makkah: Jayyid report)


This narration was attributed to a companion as well and it is very accurate. There is one common denominator. The Prophet of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him.
Absolutely, there is the possibility of stating what they heard and learnt from the Prophet (SAW), and just relating to others without including his name.

1 Like

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 11:45am On Sep 28, 2014
Thank you, i see what you guys are saying and i 'll be pleased to get a pdf soft copy with this hadith. But i have expressed the problem with the isnad and matn of this hadith. A true matn is not a full guarantee that a hadith is not fabricated.

Hadith on black flags have been used for several propagandas throughout muslim history. The talibans(90s), al qaida(80s) used this flags while invoke similar hadith. At the time, many assumed the occuring events were fulfilment of some of these hadith on black flags. How wrong of them.
Till today, the Ahmadi community used the black flag. They refer to the hadith of black flag from Khursani and the mahdi as a prophesy of Ghulam Ahmed 's Prophethood.

https://unity1./tag/abbasid/

For this particular hadith, a clear resemblance of the abbasids come to mind. It is factual that post and pre abbasid enthronement, pro and anti abbasid hadith were fabricated. This hadith is just another one of them. No wonder, early hadith scholars like Ahmad Hanbal discarded hadith of fitan like these as weak or fabricated.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 11:54am On Sep 28, 2014

Nu’aym ibn Hammad narrates in Al-Fitan, that the 4th Caliph, Ali ibn Abi Talib said:

1. When you see the black flags, remain where you are and do not move your hands or your feet.

2. Thereafter there shall appear a feeble insignificant folk.

3. Their hearts will be like fragments of iron.

4. They will have the state.

5. They will fulfil neither covenant nor agreement.

6. They will call to the truth, but they will not be people of the truth.

7. Their names will be parental attributions, and their aliases will be derived from towns.

8. Their hair will be free-flowing like that of women.

9. This situation will remain until they differ among themselves. Thereafter, God will bring forth the Truth through whomever He wills.


1.
Before anyone, the abbasids were the first to use the black flag. It was introduced as a symbol for their revolt and later on became the symbol of their caliphate.

2. This applies to mawalis, Jews, Zoroastrians and mostly Persians considered weak and insignificant by the tyrannic ummayads. They make up the abbasid revolters.

3. With hardened heart, the abbasids pursued, ambushed persecuted and ruthlessly killed those who they considered rejecting their ideas. Ever heard of 'The Inquisition' in muslim history? The abbasids introduced it.

4.
Obviously, the abbasids had the state, the caliphate. Perhaps this was fabricated after the abbasids were enthroned.

5.
Though mostly Persians, the abbasids pledge allegiance with the Shiites during the revolution, on victory, they betrayed and persecuted the shiites till the end of their caliphate.

6.
The abbasids accused the ummayads of materialism and negligence of Islam. They called to Islam and promised to establish a state run by pristine Islam. But they didn't truely mean it. Many innovations like killing apostates or blasphemer and compulsion in religious matters were incorporated into Islam during their reign. Slavery, concubinage, aggressing against non muslim empires were sanctioned by the abbasids.

7. Names of some of the abbasid army officers include;
Abu Muslim Al Khorasani, Abu Awn Al Khorasani.

8.
Many of these abbasid fighter were Persians who are very hairy, keeping long hair or ponytail.

9.
Like most states, the abbasid caliphate crumbled from within, when the abbasids differed with the Turks who make up the Abbasid army.

Probably, the scholars of hadith noticed the relation of this with Abbasids. That could also account for classing black flag ahadith as fabricated or weak at best.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 2:00pm On Sep 28, 2014
^ Or there are two black flags... duh!!

People trying to make themselves the fulfilment of a prophesy is not strange. However, when it happens, there will be no doubt.

2 Likes

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 2:11pm On Sep 28, 2014
Your attempt at putting it on the Abbasid Empire is rather ludicrous because the hadith can not be false if it has already happened.

You can not claim the two at the same time. Speaking ftom two sides of the mouth.

Scholars throughout history have never attributed this hadith to the Abbasids. They do not even fit it. Your long-winded 'explanations' make it clear. Too many far fetched justifications.

When a prophesy happens, it is simple.

The only reason, it is brought out now is its similarity to recent events.

The hadith book was written before the abbasids.

1 Like

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 2:30pm On Sep 28, 2014
^^^
A little more of attention and you will understand my post better. I didn't say this is a prophesy fulfilled by the abbasids. I said the descriptions fit the abbasids and is most likely an anti abbasid hadith, fabricated after the abbasid conquest by the shiites, mutazilites, ummayads and others betrayed or persecuted by the abbasids.

In fact when you first posted the hadith, 'abbasid' occured to me. But for some reasons i felt it would be wrong. In the wake of recent discoveries, i realised that i had been wrong and my first assumption seem to me more accurate.

PS: Hadith books were first compiled during the Abbasid era, so there was room for anti abbasid hadith to be fabricated and inserted into the collections.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 2:49pm On Sep 28, 2014
Exactly! Even in NY, there have been groups claiming to be Mahdi. The fact is when the true one comes, it will be as clear as sunshine
tbaba1234: ^ Or there are two black flags... duh!!

People trying to make themselves the fulfilment of a prophesy is not strange. However, when it happens, there will be no doubt.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by tbaba1234: 2:58pm On Sep 28, 2014
Only problem is that, it was written before the Abbasids.

It was also written before Bukhari.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by sino(m): 9:45pm On Sep 28, 2014
@usermane, This is the link to the pdf file of the book
al-mostafa.info/data/arabic/depot/gan.php?file=000027-www.al-mostafa.com.pdf
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 6:43am On Sep 29, 2014
Peace.

ISIS supporters share another hadith to invite muslims to their cause. You won't be surprised anymore that many are migrating from all over to join them, and that include young muslim ladies raised in the West. Those who cannot migrate sympathise and defend the militant in any possible means. Radicals may be outnumbered in the muslim community but they are far numerous and stronger than we think, and their count is rising.

Saeed (or Sayyid) bin Al- Musayyab reported: “Black Banners will come from the East from the descendants of Al-Abbas. They will remain for whatsoever Allah wishes. Then, small Black Banners from the East will come to fight a man from the descendants of Abu Sufyan. They will give their allegiance to the Mahdi.” (Nuaim bin Hammad’s book Kitab Al- Fitan)


Al Baghdadi claim descent from the Al Abbas.

Who is Sufyan? Assad. Hafez Assad.

Notice that it is said “… fighting against someone from the descend of Sufyan”, see how clear it is, right? “They come under the obedience of Hazrat Mahdi.” At the end, they abide by Hazrat Mahdi (as). At the end, they abide by Hazrat Mahdi (as). Otherwise if that power were leaderless, that would devastate the world .. but because they will come under the obedience of Hazrat Mahdi (as), the problem would be settled.

First al-Qaida’s black flags appeared, the big black banners. Now, they are smaller, again from the East. “… this time small black banners appear and fighting against someone from the descend of Sufyan”, right now this is already happening, “… they come under the obedience of Hazrat Mahdi.”

http://zenpundit.com/?p=37041&wpmp_tp=1

In a nutshell, even ISIS militants and sympathizers are motivated by eschatology.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 10:51am On Sep 29, 2014
Usermane, you have any word on this?. Can you interpret what this man is saying?. Matter of fact, there are other versions in another interviews of this videos now taken off YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7NsXFnzJGw. I know exactly what you trying to do but it will not work. I may have my own way of criticizing certain sect or group, [size=5pt](bcus of their foolishness playing perfectly at the hands of Zionists[/size]) but not condemning the whole body of the Ummah as you attempt to do. The fact is this a long anticipated Syrian invasion by secular West or Judeo-christian terrorist alliance is now playing out. But in order to deceive mankind, they would have to create their bogus caliphate by hiring machineries and fools would join them. Dont even think for a second that all those idiots joining the crazy wagon are on their own. Among them are agent provocateurs sent by the Zionists. I do not have physical evidence. This is logical deduction. Only a matter of time.

2 Likes 1 Share

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 11:33am On Sep 29, 2014
^^^
Yup, you gotta back down on this. There is master plan ongoing to destabilize everything. It's no conspiracy theory. They're obsessed with the ME.
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by ayinba1(f): 2:55pm On Sep 29, 2014
usermane: I 'll be buying more than i bargained for if i respond to all issues in your post.

I don't condemn all orthodox muslims. I simply address vital ugly realities of their beliefs and ideal.

Peace.

And where is your objectivity (or honesty) when the video above gets no response from you? It appears that you just hate Islam.

4 Likes

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 6:05pm On Sep 29, 2014
ayinba1:

And where is your objectivity (or honesty) when the video above gets no response from you? It appears that you just hate Islam.

It(video) is not relevant to the topic. I post for you hadith motivating ISIS and you give me videos implicating Western colonialists? Am i a western agent?
Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by Empiree: 7:42pm On Sep 29, 2014
usermane:

It(video) is not relevant to the topic. I post for you hadith motivating ISIS and you give me videos implicating Western colonialists? Am i a western agent?
grin grin grin YES! YES! YES! undecided grin cheesy . [size=5pt]who do you work for?[/size]

3 Likes

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by ayinba1(f): 11:18pm On Sep 29, 2014
usermane:

It(video) is not relevant to the topic. I post for you hadith motivating ISIS and you give me videos implicating Western colonialists? Am i a western agent?

The same tactic employed by "intelligence agencies". You are preaching violence and cloaking it under Islam. Of course, you are an agent. If not, what a waste.
We should be able to bring the authorities to take note of you. You are spreading these fallacies and desperately tying Islam to ISIS and the likes, trying to appear "learned". Whether you claim to be muslim or not, it appears that you are seeking recruits and then you can come back and say 'See, I told you so!"

If you are any objective and without ulterior motive, pray tell what the relationship is between Boko Haram, Ihejirika and MEND? Answer the question, then you will understand why you need to review the video again unless of course, you knew the grand plan all along.

Be that as it may, the light of Islam is inextinguishable.

3 Likes

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by usermane(m): 10:04am On Sep 30, 2014
ayinba1:
If you are any objective and without ulterior motive, pray tell what the relationship is between Boko Haram, Ihejirika and MEND?

If you have a point, state it instead of beating about the bush. I don't know, so you tell me the relationship among the three.


And where is your objectivity (or honesty) when the video above gets no response from you? It appears that you just hate Islam.


The whole events are too convoluted to just point fingers based on mini video clips that don't add up, and interpreted out of context.

ISIS are muslims, majority immigrating from their places to ISIS are muslims.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/schoolgirl-jihadis-female-islamists-leaving-home-join-isis-iraq-syria
Am neither condemning all muslims nor absolving the West.

Stop wallowing in victimhood and man up. The likes of Ayman al Zawahiri and Al Baghdadi are the flag bears of ISIS, they are muslims, scholars and have no relation with the west. They draw inspiration from your religious texts and ideologies. The root of the whole menace stem from the muslim community. The West are only exploiting it to meet their political goals as seen in those clips.

I wouldn't bother myself debating this only to have sensitive persons conive behind my back & hack my posts.

For those who want the truth on the muslim/east machinations for this turmoil, i recommend these books;

Black flags from Arabia PDF
Black flags from the East PDF
Black flags from Syria PDF
http://salaf-stories..com.es/2013/05/ebook-black-flags-from-syria.html?m=1

Those were pened by a Salaf, a pro ISIS agent.


However much the West has her hand dirty, the East is just as dirty.

1 Like

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by ayinba1(f): 2:01pm On Sep 30, 2014
usermane:

If you have a point, state it instead of beating about the bush. I don't know, so you tell me the relationship among the three.



The whole events are too convoluted to just point fingers based on mini video clips that don't add up, and interpreted out of context.

ISIS are muslims, majority immigrating from their places to ISIS are muslims.
www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/29/schoolgirl-jihadis-female-islamists-leaving-home-join-isis-iraq-syria
Am neither condemning all muslims nor absolving the West.

Stop wallowing in victimhood and man up. The likes of Ayman al Zawahiri and Al Baghdadi are the flag bears of ISIS, they are muslims, scholars and have no relation with the west. They draw inspiration from your religious texts and ideologies. The root of the whole menace stem from the muslim community. The West are only exploiting it to meet their political goals as seen in those clips.

I wouldn't bother myself debating this only to have sensitive persons conive behind my back & hack my posts.

For those who want the truth on the muslim/east machinations for this turmoil, i recommend these books;

Black flags from Arabia PDF
Black flags from the East PDF
Black flags from Syria PDF
http://salaf-stories..com.es/2013/05/ebook-black-flags-from-syria.html?m=1

Those were pened by a Salaf, a pro ISIS agent.


However much the West has her hand dirty, the East is just as dirty.

You have been outed. OR you only see what your eyes choose to see.
Someone murders an innocent being and says it is Islam. You go dig up Hadiths to support the murderers claim when the Quran is very clear about this crime. You are a preacher of violence and you will not succeed in your quest to mislead others

3 Likes 1 Share

Re: Islam For Muslims: Side Talk Station by udatso: 10:40pm On Sep 30, 2014
sino: @usermane, This is the link to the pdf file of the book
al-mostafa.info/data/arabic/depot/gan.php?file=000027-www.al-mostafa.com.pdf

Please join us in the nairaland Muslim forum group. We are waiting for you.

(1) (2) (3) ... (27) (28) (29) (30) (31) (32) (33) ... (232) (Reply)

Cute and Romantic Photos Of Muslim Couples

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 85
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.