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'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi - Islam for Muslims - Nairaland

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'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by tbaba1234: 6:49am On Jul 04, 2014
Europe's most senior rabbi says a court ruling upholding France's ban on the burka amounts to the traditional concept of religious freedom "unravelling before our eyes"

'Arguments against the burka are deeply suspicious'
By Pinchas Goldschmidt

The American comedian and social commentator George Carlin once said that “Religion is like a pair of shoes.....Find one that fits for you, but don't make me wear your yours.”

This is the popular philosophy among western democracies – the idea that expressions of personal faith cannot and must not ever unreasonably impact upon another person who is not of that religious persuasion.

It’s a philosophy which has worked reasonably well until recently – and now, with the European Court of Human Rights ruling that a ban on the burka should be upheld, it is all unravelling before our eyes.

It is unravelling because whereas the burden of proof used to lie with those who were seeking to deny religious freedoms, (sometimes with good intentions) it is now for faith communities to make the case for their rights to be upheld.

It used to be very straightforward. If an individual (or even a community) argued that in order to live by their religious principles they needed to beat a demon or an evil spirit out of a defenceless child, the authorities would intervene.

If however they needed to offer up a quiet prayer in the privacy of their home or a communal place of worship then they would be treated with respect for doing so. The line was very clear – as long as I don’t have to ‘wear your shoes’ - religious practice gets a pass.

Then it all got a little bit more complicated.

Faith communities were forced to defend fundamental religious practices such as circumcision and religious slaughter. Are animal rights as important as religious rights? What about the possibility (however small) that a child could claim they never wanted to be circumcised as an infant?

For the purposes of these ongoing debates, champions of human rights, normally conclude that in general, these practices should not be challenged.

Yet the bans on the building of minarets in Switzerland in 2009 and on wearing a burka, upheld by the ECHR in the last few days, have crossed a red line.

My personal view is that to suggest that the particular appearance of a place of worship (of which there were only four across the entire country at the time of the Swiss referendum) could somehow negatively impact on a person in any meaningful way is ludicrous in the extreme.

I am also deeply suspicious of claims that a ban on the burka is designed to promote intercommunal relations.

The question is, how badly would your life be affected if you had to walk past a minaret on the way to work every day? How intimidated would you really be if a lady with her face covered walked past you?

Let’s imagine for a moment that you are somewhat intimidated by the fact that you can’t see what is behind that lady’s burka.

Would you be less intimidated by a large man, wearing torn clothing, tattooed from head to toe, who you happen to know always keeps a baseball bat stowed in his motorcycle? Is anyone calling for a ban on tattoos and concealed sports equipment?

Of course many people make a judgement about a woman wearing a burka and that appraisal might not be conducive to social harmony but that is no different to the judgement you make when you walk past a group of thugs on a street corner.

If you’ll forgive me for stating something so obvious - people should be judged on their behaviour not on the sort of clothes they might wear.

Who knows – if you went to have a conversation with that lady who dresses differently to you, you might find them to be quite friendly and open-minded. You might find that they are not looking to force you to do anything that you don’t want to do.

So how did we get to a situation where the Muslim community has to prove that “respect for the conditions of ‘living together’” as the ECHR puts it, has everything to do with the way that people behave and nothing at all do with what they wear?

I don’t know the answer to that question but I do know that faith communities around Europe are feeling more and more disaffected and marginalised, not less.

Those people that think banning the burka somehow strikes a blow against extremism are woefully naïve – if anything they have created a distraction from the attempts to tackle terrorism and radicalisation and they have made the problem worse.

I will be the first to object, the moment any person of any faith tries to impose their way of life on anybody else but the same rule must apply to those people of no faith. I wonder if we can we come to an agreement? I won’t ask anyone to wear my shoes, if they don’t ask me to wear theirs.

Pinchas Goldschmidt is Chief Rabbi of Moscow and president of the Conference of European Rabbis

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/10942051/Arguments-against-the-burka-are-deeply-suspicious.html

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by tbaba1234: 6:50am On Jul 04, 2014
Some common sense.

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by Redoil: 7:45am On Jul 04, 2014
tbaba1234: Some common sense.

people using burka to commit henious is on the increase i.e in the restive regieon of maiduguristan women who ar members of BH have been caught hidding IED, authomatic riffle, bombs, and every other evil device known to kill human race in large quantity and whatever will set the world 10thousand years back or make human racf extinct should be stop and ban.
Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by maclatunji: 10:29am On Jul 04, 2014
Redoil: people using burka to commit henious is on the increase i.e in the restive regieon of maiduguristan women who ar members of BH have been caught hidding IED, authomatic riffle, bombs, and every other evil device known to kill human race in large quantity and whatever will set the world 10thousand years back or make human racf extinct should be stop and ban.

An example of nonsense.

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by Redoil: 11:58am On Jul 04, 2014
maclatunji:

An example of nonsense.
is this ur best shot? Why not prove me wrong?

1 Like

Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by dragnet: 5:00pm On Jul 04, 2014
Redoil: people using burka to commit henious is on the increase i.e in the restive regieon of maiduguristan women who ar members of BH have been caught hidding IED, authomatic riffle, bombs, and every other evil device known to kill human race in large quantity and whatever will set the world 10thousand years back or make human racf extinct should be stop and ban.
then why not move the motion for a law that'll 'remove' the stomach of every human because some drug peddlers use it as a transporting mechanism... or better still Peel off our skin !

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by Redoil: 7:23pm On Jul 04, 2014
dragnet:
then why not move the motion for a law that'll 'remove' the stomach of every human because some drug peddlers use it as a transporting mechanism... or better still Peel off our skin !
lame and destructive logic

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by dragnet: 8:58pm On Jul 04, 2014
Redoil: lame and destructive logic

so now it's destructive and lame eh?

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by vedaxcool(m): 10:15pm On Jul 04, 2014
dragnet:
so now it's destructive and lame eh?
brilliant rebuttal! Wonderful article,good common sense! It seems extremist are winning the day, every country in the west seem to be facing a resurgent extreme right wing, even NL is facing such, as I was baffled when I saw people I thought are sane feeling let down that a bokoharam bomb failed to detonate close to mosque! Any way end time things!

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by true2god: 8:45am On Jul 06, 2014
Muslims should learn how to be obedient to local laws and not force Islamic laws on their host. If the local law forbids burka, for whatever reason, they should comply. Afterall its their country. If a christian woman visits saudi arabia, she is expected to use veil, that their law.

Muslims should stop using the concept of freedom and human right, in the west, to cause societal problems\confusions. If you are not ok with another country's law, you can go back to your country where those laws are applicable.

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by BetaThings: 3:46pm On Jul 12, 2014
Redoil: people using burka to commit henious is on the increase i.e in the restive regieon of maiduguristan women who ar members of BH have been caught hidding IED, authomatic riffle, bombs, and every other evil device known to kill human race in large quantity and whatever will set the world 10thousand years back or make human racf extinct should be stop and ban.

So women dressed in Burqa to kidnap those Chibok girls?
The Rwandese genocide, the current crisis in South Sudan, the activities of the Lord Resistance Army, Irish Republican Army, the kidnappers in the South etc are dressed in Burqa?

BTW - that Muslim girl that was caned 43 time by a Christian Principal for wearing hijab after school hours in Lagos, was it to deter heinous crime
Or was the caning itself the hateful exercise of naked aggression against an innocent girl?

BTW - was this argument of heinous used by the french in their campaign against hijab

Please don't forget unabomber and Olkahoma bomber?

Now can you list what have been generally accepted as heinous crimes and let us see the ratio of men and women that were involved?
Of the women, how many wore Burqa

2 Likes

Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by BetaThings: 3:53pm On Jul 12, 2014
true2god: Muslims should learn how to be obedient to local laws and not force Islamic laws on their host. If the local law forbids burka, for whatever reason, they should comply. Afterall its their country. If a christian woman visits saudi arabia, she is expected to use veil, that their law.

Muslims should stop using the concept of freedom and human right, in the west, to cause societal problems\confusions. If you are not ok with another country's law, you can go back to your country where those laws are applicable.

This is am argument that is deficient.
Muslims in the West live by laws of western countries - they obey western laws, pay taxes and have western rights - they protest for their rights just like your h-o.mo.sick friends do
Note that were they to behave like foreigners, they could have got some foreign countries to give them weapons to cause violence as we currently see in Ukraine
The protest culture eg the Occupy movement is western and you behave like Romans while in Rome
And that is what they are doing
When Russia banned f.a.g.g.o.t.r.y those who opposed it in the West protested, nobody asked them to go to Russia to protest
and that was sympathy protest

Please be truly true to God and learn to be tolerant

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Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by Unbias: 6:57pm On Jul 12, 2014
true2god: Muslims should learn how to be obedient to local laws and not force Islamic laws on their host. If the local law forbids burka, for whatever reason, they should comply. Afterall its their country. If a christian woman visits saudi arabia, she is expected to use veil, that their law.

Muslims should stop using the concept of freedom and human right, in the west, to cause societal problems\confusions. If you are not ok with another country's law, you can go back to your country where those laws are applicable.
Thank you man.
Non Muslims residing in Islamic states dare not consider breaking Islamic laws which restrict their religion activities, mode of dressing, opportunities et cetera. Islam subdues others in Islamic nations but frowns or rebels at being subdued elsewhere.

I have lived close to an Emir's palace in northern Nigeria so I know what I'm talking about. You simply had to comply with the rules or vacate the area. Sometimes, ignorant and adamant victims got the whippings they would live to remember forever.

I'm only trying to say let us learn to obey the laws of wherever we choose to stay.
Re: 'arguments Against The Burka Are Deeply Suspicious' Europe's Most Senior Rabbi by true2god: 9:02am On Jul 13, 2014
BetaThings:

This is am argument that is deficient.
Muslims in the West live by laws of western countries - they obey western laws, pay taxes and have western rights - they protest for their rights just like your h-o.mo.sick friends do
Note that were they to behave like foreigners, they could have got some foreign countries to give them weapons to cause violence as we currently see in Ukraine
The protest culture eg the Occupy movement is western and you behave like Romans while in Rome
And that is what they are doing
When Russia banned f.a.g.g.o.t.r.y those who opposed it in the West protested, nobody asked them to go to Russia to protest
and that was sympathy protest

Please be truly true to God and learn to be tolerant

Muslims are the greatest oppressors worldwide, where they are the majority. Stop being deceptive.

Islamic society operates an absolute law, without room for compromise. In saudi arabia, christians are not even allows\expected to visit mecca city (according to koran, nothing unclean should enter mecca, including infidel christians); it is a criminal offense for any christian to step into mecca for whatever reason. Thats their law, and as a christian, I must abide by the law. If I'm not ok with that law, I'm free to leave saudi arabia altogther.

The good news is that muslims can access\enter any part of the world, unresticted, including the vatican (the seat of the catholic papacy), and recently quran was read in the vatican. Can Bible be read in mecca? NO.

So muslims\arabs are quick to cry oppression while they are greatest oppressors of human race.

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