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Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. - Religion (25) - Nairaland

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Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Papacypaul(m): 9:22pm On Jul 23, 2014
Just heard a man giving testimony in the Church over a narrow escape in a ghastly car accident
He said"'OUT OF 10 PASSENGERS , 5 were killed on the spot and 4 sustains deep injury but i only was unhurt,help me to thank God...praise the Lord! Halleluyah'"
My question is why is he thanking God
a.Is it because his god z xo perfect enough to save only one out of 10 passengers?
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Papacypaul(m): 9:23pm On Jul 23, 2014
@braveguy,Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is no more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifiying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory to itself than this thing called Christianity.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Weah96: 9:28pm On Jul 23, 2014
Papacypaul: Just heard a man giving testimony in the Church over a narrow escape in a ghastly car accident
He said"'OUT OF 10 PASSENGERS , 5 were killed on the spot and 4 sustains deep injury but i only was unhurt,help me to thank God...praise the Lord! Halleluyah'"
My question is why is he thanking God
a.Is it because his god z xo perfect enough to save only one out of 10 passengers?

He would have offered even more praise to his savior if everybody else had died.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 10:05pm On Jul 23, 2014
BraveGuy:

I will start giving you straight answers, if you can understand fine, if not, tough!

It is found in the pattern of the Tabernacle of Moses. The Rules are in three levels:
Outer Court
Holy Place
Holy of Holies.

I learnt that from Brother John (he has been quiet since he joined NL). See here:
https://www.nairaland.com/1799532/pattern-letter-veil

In other words there are three levels of understanding in the comprehension of the Word of God; and if you have it at the back of your mind that there are three levels of understanding to the Scriptures, which is patterned according to the design of the temple, then you will do well.
#1. Intellectual Understanding
#2. Spiritual Understanding
#3. Fullness Understanding

"If you are not born again, you will never attain to the 2nd and 3rd levels. It doesn't matter if you are a professor of theology or preacher in a mega-church."
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 10:15pm On Jul 23, 2014
Papacypaul:
I love you but I am gonna roast you in my celestial oven for ever if you dont love me back,I am wise and benevolent but I am going to punish all your descendants because you ate a fruit,I want you to let my people go but I am going to harden your heart so you refuse to let them go so I can kill your children to show how mighty I am.
This guy should be in a lunatic asylum.

The fruit is a metaphor, not a physical fruit wink

http://brotherjohn.org/forbidden-fruit/
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 10:58pm On Jul 23, 2014
Weah96:

The article says that it does. What is known as perception is only a series of chemical reactions modulated by enzymes. Enzymes can, by themselves, alter the environment of a nucleus enough to cause a change in phenotype. The article gives an example of one such enzyme, N-acetyltransferase. It is possible for the enzymes associated with certain emotional states to alter the phenotype of an individual, for good or bad.

I am yet to read (because I am at work), but I'll take your word for it.

Good. I believe you are aware that some governments do perform experiments where personalities are altered and different results are achieved, a good example is the portrayal of Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne. Also, you know what happens when people take some chemicals/drugs, they begin to hallucinate and they enter into an altered state and some reported seeing or conversing with "aliens". In fact, some were said to never recover.

And you know where you learn advanced level of that without the use of any external agency such as use of chemicals? The Bible.

Can you see the connection between perception, chemicals and the spiritual realm?
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by TheBigUrban2: 11:05pm On Jul 23, 2014
BraveGuy:

I am yet to read (because I am at work), but I'll take your word for it.

Good. I believe you are aware that some governments do perform experiments where personalities are altered and different results are achieved, a good example is the portrayal of Robert Ludlum's Jason Bourne. Also, you know what happens when people take some chemicals/drugs, they begin to hallucinate and they enter into an altered state and some reported seeing or conversing with "aliens". In fact, some were said to never recover.

And you know where you learn advanced level of that without the use of any external agency such as use of chemicals? The Bible.

Can you see the connection between perception, chemicals and the spiritual realm?


I totally agree.

Hallucinogenic drugs and Biblical faith share something in common- the user gets delusions of grandeur


Why do you think that religion is the opium of the people?
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 11:59pm On Jul 23, 2014
@KAY17.....

I guess we can reason a little more on this science of perception, enzymes and amino acids manipulation.

Take your time and read Genesis 30, with particular attention to verses 37 to 41.

Gen 30:37 And Jacob took him rods of green poplar, and of the hazel and chesnut tree; and pilled white strakes in them, and made the white appear which was in the rods.
Gen 30:38 And he set the rods which he had pilled before the flocks in the gutters in the watering troughs when the flocks came to drink, that they should conceive when they came to drink.
Gen 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
Gen 30:40 And Jacob did separate the lambs, and set the faces of the flocks toward the ringstraked, and all the brown in the flock of Laban; and he put his own flocks by themselves, and put them not unto Laban's cattle.
Gen 30:41 And it came to pass, whensoever the stronger cattle did conceive, that Jacob laid the rods before the eyes of the cattle in the gutters, that they might conceive among the rods.

What do you think the man was doing there? Is that not molecular biology or should rephrase that, epigenetics? He didn't use any chemicals, needle or any of such external agency.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Kay17: 12:00am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

In other words there are three levels of understanding in the comprehension of the Word of God; and if you have it at the back of your mind that there are three levels of understanding to the Scriptures, which is patterned according to the design of the temple, then you will do well.
#1. Intellectual Understanding
#2. Spiritual Understanding
#3. Fullness Understanding

"If you are not born again, you will never attain to the 2nd and 3rd levels. It doesn't matter if you are a professor of theology or preacher in a mega-church."

But without the interpretational rules, the bible can't be properly read.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by alchemist13: 12:12am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

EVERYTHING!

The elusive particle is the SPOKEN WORD of God.
The SPOKEN WORD of God seems to be many things these days.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 12:15am On Jul 24, 2014
Kay17:

But without the interpretational rules, the bible can't be properly read.

It depends on what rules you are referring to.

I am LEARNING, that at the intellectual level, you can only go so far and not beyond a certain degree or distance, especially in spiritual knowledge and understanding. That is why it says, "the natural man does not understand the things of God because they are spiritually discerned".

It is just like a Biology textbook, there is a certain way in which you read and understand it (maybe that is what you are referring to as interpretational rules), but that way is different from the way you handle a physics textbook.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 12:19am On Jul 24, 2014
alchemist13:
The SPOKEN WORD of God seems to be many things these days.

Well, it depends on what you mean by "many things". If you are indirectly referring to the fake preachers (that definition may be difficult to qualify), then you're missing the point.

But if you are referring to personal transformation, I would like to agree with you.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 12:23am On Jul 24, 2014
Kay17:

But without the interpretational rules, the bible can't be properly read.

Although, I am taking a much more radical approach in my previous comments, but this may be what you are referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK7g5nz3tUc
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Weah96: 1:10am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

Can you see the connection between perception, chemicals and the spiritual realm?

I have made that point here on numerous occasions. In fact, I see a similarity between the ramblings of the bible and the insight gained from the use of entheogens. I'm not alone in my assessment. Benny Shanon is a scientist at the Hebrew university in Jerusalem. He agrees with me:

http://www.ayahuasca.com/news/benny-shanon-reveals-a-speculative-hypothesis-on-biblical-entheogens/
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Weah96: 4:55am On Jul 24, 2014
Here is the link to another article written by Shanon in which he argues again that the authors of the bible were under the influence of psychoactive plants.

http://www.imprint.co.uk/pdf/Roberts.pdf


The abstract is here:

http://entheology./2008/12/14/benny-shanon-moses-and-entheogens/
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 5:14am On Jul 24, 2014
Weah96: Here is the link to another article written by Shanon in which he argues again that the authors of the bible were under the influence of psychoactive plants.

http://www.imprint.co.uk/pdf/Roberts.pdf

The abstract is here:

http://entheology./2008/12/14/benny-shanon-moses-and-entheogens/

Over 40 writers in three different continents spanning 1500 years?
And you believe that?

With some of them seeing visions that accurately predict the future or seeing the past? Common!
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 5:39am On Jul 24, 2014
@Weah96.
It seems to me that you're willing to believe anything or anyone that tries to discredit the Bible. That is a fruitless exercise. From disputing the fact that Moses wrote the Bible to him using psychedelic drugs.

And little Joseph, when he dreamed of his future? Or when he was imprisoned and the Pharaoh dreamed and he interpreting the dreams?

And Daniel, whose life was in danger when Nebuchadnezzar had a dream and forgot it, but demanded that his wise-men, magicians, astrologers should find out the dream and it's interpretation?

And John the apostle, who was in a prison camp on the Isle of Patmos?

Think about it yourself, does that makes sense?

Anyway, as I have always said before now, it's a choice YOU alone have to make.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 5:45am On Jul 24, 2014
@Weah96

I have read your cited articles:
http://www.nature.com/scitable/topicpage/environment-controls-gene-expression-sex-determination-and-982 (I like this one)
&
http://entheology./2008/12/14/benny-shanon-moses-and-entheogens/

The reason why I cited the matters of genetic manipulation or influence and the use of psychedelic drugs was to bring you to a place of awareness that there is a spiritual world that can influence our natural world.

I also cited the case of Jacob, who was the first geneticist, he didn't use any drug nor did he touch the cattle. Yet, he was able to influence them in a unique way.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Kay17: 6:58am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy: @Weah96.
It seems to me that you're willing to believe anything or anyone that tries to discredit the Bible. That is a fruitless exercise. From disputing the fact that Moses wrote the Bible to him using psychedelic drugs.

And little Joseph, when he dreamed of his future? Or when he was imprisoned and the Pharaoh dreamed and he interpreting the dreams?

And Daniel, whose life was in danger when Nebuchadnezzar had a dream and forgot it, but demanded that his wise-men, magicians, astrologers should find out the dream and it's interpretation?

And John the apostle, who was in a prison camp on the Isle of Patmos?

Think about it yourself, does that makes sense?

Anyway, as I have always said before now, it's a choice YOU alone have to make.


@braveguy, the sum total of your argument on the thread is a Munchausen exercise. All through when questioned on the authority of the Bible, the interpretational rules, the authors; all you did was reach out into the Bible in order to support the Bible. It is strange!

It is like using the decking of a storied building as its foundation. Braveguy, we just have to step out of the Bible in order to properly "weigh" it. The validity of the Bible cannot come out of the Bible (Munchausen).

Because the Book of Daniel was titled after Daniel's name, does not mean Daniel wrote the book! Same goes to Job. By following common sense, Moses couldn't have written the Genesis, for the obvious reason the events preceded his birth by thousands of years.

God has not told us the criteria of the Word of God yet, so we cannot rely on what the Bible authors have said without a divine confirmation.

Thank you.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Kay17: 7:01am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

Although, I am taking a much more radical approach in my previous comments, but this may be what you are referring to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bK7g5nz3tUc

Why do you approach knowledge strangely?
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Weah96: 8:25am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:
I also cited the case of Jacob, who was the first geneticist, he didn't use any drug nor did he touch the cattle. Yet, he was able to influence them in a unique way.


LOL, selective breeding of livestock goes back a long way. I wouldn't sensationalize it. What do you mean when you say that he didn't touch the cattle? B)estiality? It is said that the ancients Jews were quite fond of their goats, if you know what I mean. And btw, there is no archaeological or historical record of ANY Jewish exodus from Egypt. It was an hallucination.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 9:57am On Jul 24, 2014
@weah96

If you have been following the trail I have been trying to express, that there is a spiritual world out there, then see these:
Bob Dylan..... Maybe he was also hallucinating in this interview, too. Shut your eyes to reality and suddenly you will meet God face-to-face when the opportunity to repent is long gone!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKkZcgrec8A

Some others

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YHi6bYgp8I
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 10:01am On Jul 24, 2014
Weah96:

LOL, selective breeding of livestock goes back a long way. I wouldn't sensationalize it. What do you mean when you say that he didn't touch the cattle? B)estiality? It is said that the ancients Jews were quite fond of their goats, if you know what I mean. And btw, there is no archaeological or historical record of ANY Jewish exodus from Egypt. It was an hallucination.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/ancient/archeology-hebrew-bible.html

grin grin grin grin grin grin
What a fantastic hoax or hallucination, it must have been then, just like the holocaust was, isn't it?

http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-date-1440bc.htm
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by qstar(m): 10:54am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

Shut your eyes to reality and suddenly you will meet God face-to-face when the opportunity to repent is long gone!

BraveGuy, when you want to have a civil debate, you do not resort to "threats". Is it argumentum ad baculum or what?

It's a pity that all these your "hellish threats" do not get to atheists. Just beating the air. You are indirectly showcasing your insecurity here.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Nobody: 10:54am On Jul 24, 2014
Apatheist: Dapo777,do you remember this thread?
www.nairaland.com/1362765/lies-told-jesus

yes, I was even looking for that thread where I was defending Christians,at least it's a prove that I was once a stauch Christian, so I understand the Christians very well. grin
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Nobody: 11:02am On Jul 24, 2014
Dapo777:

yes, I was even looking for that thread where I was defending Christians,at least it's a prove that I was once a staunch Christian, so I understand the Christians very well. grin
So you are no longer Christian?
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 11:12am On Jul 24, 2014
qstar:

BraveGuy, when you want to have a civil debate, you do not resort to "threats". Is it argumentum ad baculum or what?

It's a pity that all these your "hellish threats" do not get to atheists. Just beating the air. You are indirectly showcasing your insecurity here.

What threats? Saying that he'll meet God face-to-face? No, that's not a threat. We'll ALL meet Him face to face sooner or later - give and take another 50 years max, it will happen. So, there is no need to construe a reality check as a silly excuse of threat. But if you still want to call it a threat, then so be it - for ALL of us, including me.

I remembered when I was in high school and we'd be poking fun at some teacher and as if it was the wind, the man would suddenly enter the class, having heard our loud noises as he walked by. So, believe it or not, it will happen one day.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 11:13am On Jul 24, 2014
Dapo777:

yes, I was even looking for that thread where I was defending Christians,at least it's a prove that I was once a stauch Christian, so I understand the Christians very well. grin

He that endures TILL THE END shall be saved; Better is the end of a thing than the beginning of it.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by BraveGuy: 11:25am On Jul 24, 2014
N.B
Due to the nature of my business, I may not be as active as I would have like to be in the next coming months. All the best for now, it's been wonderful knowing you all, Seun, KAY17, TheBigUrban2, Weah96, gstar, finofaya, dapo777, plaetton, mazaje, Alchemist13, Apatheist, Papacypaul, and others who I may not be able to remember now, but you will be in my prayers. wink

The TRUTH of the matter is that God or the Bible doesn't need defending. How many people have challenged either or both over the centuries and have returned to ashes and dust? How many from the last century is here today to mount up the same defense? All these, that we do - debates, arguments, exchange of information - are for our own benefits, it doesn't add to God and neither does it remove from Him. As He said in one place, "He that has an ear let him hear". Everyone will get his reward for good or bad. Yes, it may sound like a cliche, that is because it is a truth that has been rehashed over the centuries, and no matter how beaten or battered truth may be, it will always remain, standing the test of time.

I wish everyone well.

I love you all.

God Bless!



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvSN3dnmBw0

1 Like

Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by finofaya: 11:39am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

In other words there are three levels of understanding in the comprehension of the Word of God; and if you have it at the back of your mind that there are three levels of understanding to the Scriptures, which is patterned according to the design of the temple, then you will do well.
#1. Intellectual Understanding
#2. Spiritual Understanding
#3. Fullness Understanding

"If you are not born again, you will never attain to the 2nd and 3rd levels. It doesn't matter if you are a professor of theology or preacher in a mega-church."

To truly understand the bible one has to accept a character from the bible (Jesus Christ) as one's personal lord and saviour?

Once you accept Jesus as your saviour, do you still need to understand the bible?

You know, if you make up your mind to do so, you can accept pretty much anything. Am I to take it that before you knew what the bible really meant, you had accepted it's authenticity?

Why the special treatment? Or is that just how you generally direct your affairs? Belief first, questions later. Or never.
Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by qstar(m): 11:49am On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

What threats? Saying that he'll meet God face-to-face? No, that's not a threat. We'll ALL meet Him face to face sooner or later - give and take another 50 years max, it will happen. So, there is no need to construe a reality check as a silly excuse of threat. But if you still want to call it a threat, then so be it - for ALL of us, including me.

I remembered when I was in high school and we'd be poking fun at some teacher and as if it was the wind, the man would suddenly enter the class, having heard our loud noises as he walked by. So, believe it or not, it will happen one day.

The thing is that there's no god to meet after death. These are all wishful thinking used to govern the ancient and medieval men.

1 Like

Re: Atheists. Come In Let's Discuss. by Weah96: 12:26pm On Jul 24, 2014
BraveGuy:

grin grin grin grin grin grin
What a fantastic hoax or hallucination, it must have been then, just like the holocaust was, isn't it?

http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-date-1440bc.htm

Well, there is nothing scientific or academic about the information posted at this link. The bible is not a history book. There must be an external source of information to corroborate the presence of the Jews in Egypt. Don't send me to a website where the bible is accepted as actual history, because any conclusions drawn from that assumption will be false. My point remains, there is no evidence of any Jewish presence in Egypt, not in the historical records of human beings, or in the archaeological footprint. Stop being dishonest.

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