Weselion: Is 150 an abysmal low mark? Remember that uni's are now 180. Universities students spend 4 years in school, polytechnic students spend more than that with serious emphasis on praticals. Some Unilag students come to my school for assistance in projects and assignments

clap for yourself. Have they not been seeing Universities?

I'm a 200l Mass comm student..Can i have an intellectual debate with an HND 2 student or graduate of a polytechnic?

ITbomb: Forgive my ignorance but do we have Professors in Polytechnics?

anyway i think that's just the BIG question they just need to answer......equal or not equal, it doesn't add or subtract anything from who i am.....but even if i can't remember anything about my uni days, i can't forget being taught by profs at every level.....those that have this experience know what i'm talking about...profs ain't meant to be joke with....even many of the Nigeria rectors are just Ph.D holders ....so what's d battle all about........and if u're thinking about the practical knowledge of polytecnics student,....then i bet u a qualified degree holder will guide that knowledge with just the theorical knowledge and u'll have a better output .

mcpat: Why didnt u guys complain when cut off for poly was way lower than that of uni?

No mind those peeps.

What will it take most of them to read and score 180 and/or above just to enter uni and avoid the stigma abi name drama.

Polytechnic is only a GLORIFIED secondary school.

obayaya: Universities and polytechnics are 2 different kinda institutions. With 2 different training modules, Awarding 2 different kind of certificates to 2 different kind of graduates for satisfaction of 2 different kind of Job Market.

The truth is that, Polytechnics is the pinnacle of Technical education in Nigeria.

All these brouhaha is due to the facts that there are no job opportunities. little or no companies and firms to absorb the teeming number of graduates from both the universities and polytechnic. Creating a fierce competition for the little employment opportunities out there.

In the Oil and Gas industry, HND holders are preferred on the Rigs.

never can it be said clearer! I went through the polytechnic and remember a course we did in our 300levels "engineer in society" it clearly spell out the role of a technologist n and engineer, as an engineer ie a uni-grad. Its role is to carry out research and d polylite is to put life into the researched work of d uni-grad simply put, so please whats the tussel all about? see it that those engaging is such shouting need to go back to school for proper learning! Gbam!!!

Somtimes I wonder hw people think.

HND is just 2yrs, ur graduating CGP is. Accumulated with 2yrs assessment only.

BSc is 4yrs, ur graduating CGP is accumulated with 4yrs assessment.

B.Tech/ B.Eng: graduating CGP is accumulated with 5yrs performance.

Now if u ar to combine the last 2yrs of the B.Sc/B.Eng/B.Tech holders, most of them will make 1st class, because at this point in time, they ar focus and more matured. Unlike yr1 and yr2 days when they were still kids.
The errors they make in yr1 and yr2 as kids, still affect their CGP in yr5


But u HND holder, ur OND does not affect ur HND, u av only 2yrs for ur assessment, of which at this point in time, u ar older and more matured, making good grade is not an issue.

U want to be equal with som1 who combined 5yrs assessment to u combining 2yrs only...how is dat fair.


It will only be equal if OND is scraped out from the system, u go for straight 5yrs, then wen u combine CGP for 5yrs we can start talking of equal.


Poly have to upgrade their standard...like auchi poly were u have ND1 of 3 to 4 arms(A, B, C,and D) imagine, u can't see dis in any uni.


No more collecting of reminant, from university.


Wen applying for jamb, they were not equal, they ar now gradute, u want them to be equal. No, it should be equal rite from d start.

I strongly subscribe to the equalization of both Certificates. To continually perpetrate this scam of HND/BSC dichotomy, key players in the education sector have deliberately left the Polytechnic education in a Comatose state. It's true indeed that Universities' curriculum are designed to go in-depth theoretically. Also while University students are being lectured by mostly Professors, their polytechnic counterparts are lectured mostly by Masters degree holders. But the fact is, Polytechnic students can be as good, if not better, as their University counter parts. All they need, is a level playing ground. Do not give an unfair advantage to some. I served with a number of degree holders, I can confidently say that we ( HND holders) are just as good as them. It hurts to go through the rigors one has to go through and then at the end of the day you are made to understand all those years of hard work counts for almost nothing unless U go to a University and spend another three years just to have a degree. Now to the degree holders, Have U met a graduate of the Petroleum Training Institute, if u have , then u may have an idea of the quality of graduates Polytechnics will produced if attention and care is given to them just as the Universities enjoy.

ITbomb: Forgive my ignorance but do we have Professors in Polytechnics?

Its not by Professors.

Here in Brunei, HND is three years. I think Nigerian Poly graduates believe that since they spend longer time before obtaining their certificates (and perhaps that their qualification is more inclined to Praxticals - not knowing this was the reason for having Polys in the first place), they should be considered at the same level.

I think the problems emanated from the Gov't itself!

i want to belive the removal of the dichotomy will really help Nigeria in the aspect of technological development

In labour market,d sch determine.u cnt just say uniosun cert shud beat oau,unilag cert.they wl first employ d unilag b4 uniosun.provided it same grade

Ninapha:

in dat case, graduates of Unilag, UNN etc shd earn more and even be superiors in offices to graduates from some fed. University with same qualification and grades.

rattlesnake:
dont mind the ignoramuses ...dictonomy ko masectomy ni

To be realistic dictonomy btw HND nd UNI isnt d right issue we'd clamourin 'bout now bcuz there's a lot of issues needs government interventn but honestly you most agree with me that professor are nw in some various polytechnic in d country like polytechic of yola

If Nigeria is a sane country this issue would have bn resolved long ago.

ITbomb: Forgive my ignorance but do we have Professors in Polytechnics?

if u ask me Na who I go ask?

michaeltotti: Mayb he doesnt pay attention in class dt tym.u knw one man best topic cn b anoda man worst topicto knw we are different.tke d issue of D.E,Where Nd wl com join us 4 200l and we wl stl b ahead of them in class wit just we doin a session.

Bro,death z far different frm sleep

***Y wount u b d best when u are repeating d class

michaeltotti: When i hustle nd gt 200 to study in uni and a gy score 150 to study in poly.and u want us to be equal?


Na lie,orelse d cutoff mark wl b equal also

why can't you be equal?? Cos you are in the uni means u are better than poly students?? NO

Sodiq3: I'm a 200l Mass comm student..Can i have an intellectual debate with an HND 2 student or graduate of 2 a polytechnic?

Differentiate between straight news and features.
What's the work of a sub editor?
What are normative theories?
Differentiate bet authoritarian and soviet communist theories
Mention any 4 models of mass communication and tell me whc is considered d mother of all
Differentiate between research and theory
Write a script for 15mins radio programme.
Answer these mass comm related questions first. Then debate follows.

Time allowed: 10minutes lol. Joking...

.

Acidosis:

2years OND
1year I.T
3years HND

Hw come 3yrs HND?
The last time I checked it is 2yrs o

We made research and u pple carried it out.na junior dey carry out work b4 nw.i remember bck then in factory wey ma oga dey colect 50k because he mk researches and we 18k.nd na we suffer to carry em out

donstein: never can it be said clearer! I went through the polytechnic and remember a course we did in our 300levels "engineer in society" it clearly spell out the role of a technologist n and engineer, as an engineer ie a uni-grad. Its role is to carry out research and d polylite is to put life into the researched work of d uni-grad simply put, so please whats the tussel all about? see it that those engaging is such shouting need to go back to school for proper learning! Gbam!!!

Bro nt dt am in d uni.bt com to thnk of it.my gp wl b added for 5yrs.and u pple just 2yrs.if i spent 2yrs.my gp wnt av go down nw.compare to 5yrs.bro,it has been different right frm admision.xo dnt expect it to b equal nw.no shortcut to heaven

jaykaylegend:
why can't you be equal?? Cos you are in the uni means u are better than poly students?? NO

On the Parity of Esteem Between
Polytechnics and Universities
By Farooq A. Kperogi
If you are a university graduate who has been
socialized to disdain polytechnics as inferior
higher education institutions, think about this:
Albert Einstein, the world’s most renowned
physicist and one of the most influential thinkers
of all time, graduated from the Zurich Polytechnic (now called the Swiss Federal Institute of
Technology Zurich) in 1900 with a diploma in
mathematics and physics. Unlike in Nigeria, his diploma wasn’t a handicap
to his pursuit of advanced degrees. He studied
for and earned his Ph.D. in experimental physics
from the University of Zurich, five years after his
diploma. If a polytechnic produced one of the world’s
greatest thinkers, why are polytechnics so low
on the totem pole of post-secondary education in
Nigeria? Why do we reserve ice-cold derision for
polytechnic qualifications? Well, the answer lies in the different philosophies
that informed the establishment of polytechnics
in different countries. In the United States, as I
pointed out last week, “polytechnic universities”
and “institutes of technology” are, and have
always been, similar in rank and structure to conventional universities. So they don’t have the
reputational baggage that our polytechnics have. But the UK tradition of polytechnic education,
which we inherited in Nigeria, intended for
polytechnics to be no more than intermediate
technical and vocational schools to train
technologists and lowbrow, middle-level
manpower. So their mandate limited them to offer sub-degree courses in engineering and
applied sciences. In time, however, they ventured into the
humanities and the social sciences and then
sought to be equated with universities. This
request was grudgingly granted only after the
British government set up the Council for
National Academic Awards (CNAA)—composed wholly of people from the universities—to
examine and validate the quality of polytechnic
qualifications. However, in spite of this elaborate institutional
quality control (which had no equivalent for
universities) the higher national diploma (HND)
was treated as only the equivalent of a
bachelor’s degree “without honors.” In university administration lingo, only a “pass”
degree—the lowest possible rank in British
degree classification— is considered a degree
“without honors.” This means that first-class,
upper-second-class, lower-second-class and
third-class degrees have “honors” and that the HND is only equivalent to a “pass” degree. That’s why, traditionally, British universities did
not— and still do not— admit HND graduates to
master’s degree programs (even if they had a
distinction in their diploma) without first
requiring them to undergo a one-year remedial
postgraduate diploma program— just like people with “pass” degrees must undergo a remedial
program before being admitted to master’s
degree programs. This invidious discrimination against polytechnic
graduates and manifestly preferential treatment
of university graduates, often called the “Binary
Divide” in UK higher education parlance,
predictably gave rise to pervasive feelings of
deep and bitter anger and ill-will in the system. So in 1992, under the Further and Higher
Education Act, the “binary divide” was abolished
and all the 35 polytechnics in the UK were
elevated to universities and given powers to
award bachelor’s, master’s, and Ph.D. degrees.
There are no more polytechnics in the UK. Most other countries with British-style binary
divides also eliminated the distinction between
polytechnics and universities to varying degrees.
In Australia, polytechnics were elevated to
“universities of technology” in the 1990s. Hong
Kong, a former British colony like Nigeria, upgraded its two polytechnics—The Hong Kong
Polytechnic and the City Polytechnic of Hong
Kong — to universities in 1994 and 1995
respectively. New Zealand also merged all its polytechnics
with existing universities and allowed only one
— Auckland University of Technology (formerly
the Auckland Institute of Technology)—to
transmute to a full-fledged university in the
1990s. Greece abolished its polytechnics and upgraded them to universities in 2001. In South
Africa, from 2004, polytechnics were either
merged with universities or upgraded to
“universities of technologies” although with
limited rights and privileges. In Germany, polytechnics can now, in addition to
diplomas, award bachelor’s and master’s degrees
in technical and vocational subjects (and in some
humanities and social science courses such as
communication studies, business and
management, etc) but cannot award PhDs. In Sierra Leone, where polytechnic education
began only in 2001, the country’s three
polytechnics award bachelor’s degrees in a
limited number of courses, in addition to
awarding diplomas and certificates. Even Kenya
has started upgrading its polytechnics to universities from this year. What the UK, Australia, New Zealand, Germany,
Hong Kong, Greece, etc achieved in the 1990s
and 2000s — that is, the abolition of the often
unfair parity esteem between polytechnic and
university qualifications—had been achieved in
Albert Einstein’s polytechnic in 1909, five years after he got his diploma there. It was, like most
other polytechnics in Switzerland, elevated to a
full-fledged university, although it is still fondly
called “Poly” by its students, staff, and alumni. Now, only a shrinking pool of countries retains
the binary divide between polytechnics and
universities, viz. Nigeria, Singapore, India,
Pakistan, Ghana, and Malaysia. We have no
business being in this lonely company. So this is my recommendation: The HND should
be abolished. However, the OND should be
retained to supply the nation’s middle-level
manpower needs and to serve as a foundational
qualification for entry into bachelor’s degree
programs. Smaller polytechnics should be merged with contiguous universities and be given the
power to award OND and bachelor’s degrees.
Big, resource-rich polytechnics like Yaba Tech
and Kaduna Polytechnic should be intellectually
upgraded and then converted to full-fledged
universities. Having taught mass communication on a part-
time basis at the Kaduna Polytechnic 10 years
ago, I frankly think that the distinction between
polytechnic and university curricula, at least in
the humanities and the social sciences, is like the
distinction between six and half a dozen. In other words, it’s a distinction without a
difference. It’s time to bridge our own binary divide.

dokson: If Nigeria is a sane country this issue would have bn resolved long ago.

there was never a dispute Bsc = managerial position HND = administrative position chikena shebi na them go workshop pass

johnwizey: Wa gbayii.......imagine, those universities student feel they are more qualified than us, but no, they ain't anywhere near us. We are better off academically, its just the way the FG treats the polythecnics that made the gap so obvious. A 300L student can't even define Kirchoff's law talkless of solving the equations.
Make them bridge the gap o cos we no go gree

for in stance from d poly I finished from, engineers (either practising or av practiced at a time during his career) teach hnd student unlike university wia Drs and profs that can,t even differentiate btw diode and thyristor when they see ones

Let not be sentimental here please, HND Cant be dsame wit a B.sc,B.A and other degrees with B's on it just as M.sc,and Phd and PGD cnt not be dsame. Let me explain abit further
Higher national Diploma(is a diploma certificate)
Bachelor of Science or Art( is a Degree in dt aspect) that implies that your a bachelor holder in dt field nt a diploma holder in it
Let me say again. Even in the developed countries check online the have different diploma programs but does holder such certificate cn not apply for an M.sc in such field, that why in nigeria the is remedy by doin a PDG program to measure up, You can never see all over the world where an HND person goes straight to do a Masters program, dt alone should help you know the r two distinctive certificate and cn not b compared,
Second if you want to compare the number of years you spent in school and want to use dt as a measure reason i cn defend dt by giving you a visual example.
Imagine somebody who scored less CGPA for a particular Msc program, did first a diploma PGD program and the went ahead to do an Msc, whch mkes it 3years if you do it in full time bases will now go to court and agitate to b equal wit a Ph.D holder just because he spent dsame 3yrs in school to acquire an Msc is dt not madness? That dsame tin HND r looking for to be same with Degree

Me no get time to argue. Try enter ib, make only u waka go sango come ask even agbero is poly ib student and ui student be same.

Make I stop joke.
I have both HND-Ede and B.Sc-UI (computer science) for real, the two aint same and can never be the same.
I am tired of reading "we do more practicals" as the main defence by mates from the poly. That's what we were set out for but did we do those practicals for real? Was in HND2 wen I started my degree in Ui (200L) and I must say, "igimu jina sori". In UI, I defended @ least a mini project every semester not to talk of writing practical exams(Come in with ur system and u'll be given apps to develop) where as in my poly, I defended project twice (one for ND and the other for HND).
Pls, my poly brothers and sisters, stop living in the self delusional praise of "we do more practicals", things are changing very fast" chemistry students are in the lab over night in UNIs doing practicals steady, my biochem roommate then slept in lab more than his room, my physics pals hardly remember the way to their halls, csc majors code like no man's business, maths and stat major ready for anything, tech and engineering guys are not smiling either, my social science dudes are ever ready to take u up on any topic.

All I did in ND, HND was covered in 2 years(200 and 300 level). For goodness sake I wasn't taught by DRs or Prof in poly, my lecturers were all MR (HND/BSc/Msc). These set of lecturers (without phd) wrote the textbooks we used and if u write anything outside those texts, "ur own don done". U can't compare that with a uni where lecturers write like 3 diff textbooks for a course and still advice u to read more.

I brought our way of reading to uni and my first year wasn't funny. I kept on having ""s and "E"s in courses just as my mode of entry (DE). Tot I was that poor until my peeps in OAU shared similar experience.

HND and B.Sc will from yesterday, today and years to come be equivalent but never will they be equal.

...Abeg make dem equal D stuff Jor.... After-all 90% of the whole prof'z. In uni's...R. Big Olodo's ..dey Hv Only 1 Pattern Of Teachin.. After dev' taught u Revised editions Of Their own subjects they strt blockin Ur future Wen dey see U're Way Better n smarter. Than dem... While poly lect'z r tryin.. Uni. Hz. More pro courses than poly. But still.. Dey both serve almost d same purpose.. ..so 2me dey. Shuld equal D stuff...

donstein: never can it be said clearer! I went through the polytechnic and remember a course we did in our 300levels "engineer in society" it clearly spell out the role of a technologist n and engineer, as an engineer ie a uni-grad. Its role is to carry out research and d polylite is to put life into the researched work of d uni-grad simply put, so please whats the tussel all about? see it that those engaging is such shouting need to go back to school for proper learning! Gbam!!!

Point of correction a uni grad is not yet an engineer,he or she is just a graduate member of COREN or NSE as d case maybe until d person fulfills all d requirements,it is then d person can append the title ENGINEER before his/her name. Then an HND holder too can become an engineer too by 1st completing PGD in engineering as d case maybe and then become a graduate member and then he/she follows d same step as d unigrad. Wat differentiates them is d PGD program dat HND holders hv to complete 1st. In short both can become engineers eventualy. Graduating with BSC does not make u an engineer automatically.

ITbomb: Forgive my ignorance but do we have Professors in Polytechnics?

Should that be a criterion? Given that polytechnic graduates are trained to KNOW the job, NOT JUST the THEORY that usually is almost irrelevant on the field? Given that what is taught in the classroom is ENTIRELY different from what one is likely to meet on the field? Especially in Nigeria??

olaezebala: Me no get time to argue. Try enter ib, make only u waka go sango come ask even agbero is poly ib student and ui student be same.

Make I stop joke.
I have both HND-Ede and B.Sc-UI (computer science) for real, the two aint same and can never be the same.
I am tired of reading "we do more practicals" as the main defence by mates from the poly. That's what we were set out for but did we do those practicals for real? Was in HND2 wen I started my degree in Ui (200L) and I must say, "igimu jina sori". In UI, I defended @ least a mini project every semester not to talk of writing practical exams(Come in with ur system and u'll be given apps to develop) where as in my poly, I defended project twice (one for ND and the other for HND).
Pls, my poly brothers and sisters, stop living in the self delusional praise of "we do more practicals", things are changing very fast" chemistry students are in the lab over night in UNIs doing practicals steady, my biochem roommate then slept in lab more than his room, my physics pals hardly remember the way to their halls, csc majors code like no man's business, maths and stat major ready for anything, tech and engineering guys are not smiling either, my social science dudes are ever ready to take u up on any topic.

All I did in ND, HND was covered in 2 years(200 and 300 level). For goodness sake I wasn't taught by DRs or Prof in poly, my lecturers were all MR (HND/BSc/Msc). These set of lecturers (without phd) wrote the textbooks we used and if u write anything outside those texts, "ur own don done". U can't compare that with a uni where lecturers write like 3 diff textbooks for a course and still advice u to read more.

I brought our way of reading to uni and my first year wasn't funny. I kept on having ""s and "E"s in courses just as my mode of entry (DE). Tot I was that poor until my peeps in OAU shared similar experience.

HND and B.Sc will from yesterday, today and years to come be equivalent but never will they be equal.

U b sabi man jare!
na make dem make am equivalent b d real deal o. not even twins are d same really

Really, we have profound students in the polytechnics. That one goes to polytechnic doesn't mean that he/she doesn't have what it takes to go the university. Some times, circumstances plays the negative part. I have a lot of university students and graduates has friends, and I can tell you, they all respect and compliments my academic prowess. I believe, I know and I'm very sure that I'm very proficient in my field - Business Administration.
you know, Nigerians are no longer after productivity, all they now regard is certificate. Like "Mettew Briggs" said: "it's not how far you have been coming; it's what you have been able to achieve." Hence, it's not the certificate you are holding, but, what you can bring to the table.

My junior brother is an ND holder, and he currently works in a manufacturing farm. he had initially applied for IT, but after going through their written and oral screening, he was recruited as the main accounting officer. The recruitment officer remark was that: he did exceptionally well, and his screening results shows that he can perform the major professional duties.

The sales of the company before his appointment was 1million plus, but now, it's 2million plus. This was achievable through his recommendations and some fraud loop-holes he was able to detect (which his predecessors could not detect). He developed an accounting mechanism which he used to curb and forestall any future fraud occurrence in the firm.

He said one day, the C.E.O of the firm called him and said: "i know by the time you leave here, you will be able to handle big organisations"


So, the summary of my epistle is that: Attending a university is only/just a privilege. hence, should not be use as a yard stick to measure brilliancy.