Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,143,252 members, 7,780,520 topics. Date: Thursday, 28 March 2024 at 03:49 PM

The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) - Religion - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) (2953 Views)

How Can I Be Closer To God,christians In The House Pls Advice / How Nigerian Christians Make Their Pastors To Sin. / Is Satan Really As Bad As Christians Make Him Out To Be? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (Reply) (Go Down)

The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 9:31pm On Jul 05, 2014
Hello everyone, this thread is for us Christians to rub minds on the topic- "The other side of God". This is just a preamble. i will put down the real issue(i.e what i mean by the other side of God) for discussion in the next post that will follow this so that contributions can be made from christian brethren in the house. I am not presenting it as a teaching pls, rather as my own view and understanding about the other side of God and as contributions are made we all can learn lessons too(personally i want to know more). I dont believe any man has the monopoly and complete knowledge of God and his word. We keep learning everyday. Let me plead with atheists in the house to desist from commenting yet. If there is anything we can accept from them much later, let it be only questions. For once pls spare us your anger and bitterness towards God. We ve heard enough of it from you atheists. grin. Lets keep the discussion free of insults pls. You can disagree with anybody's submission but let it be done without insults. God bless everyone.

TO be continued......
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by Goshen360(m): 9:38pm On Jul 05, 2014
Okay. E be like say this topic go sweet. grin

I don siddon o. Waiting! !!
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by Nobody: 9:45pm On Jul 05, 2014
I really like this post , we see God as a merciful one and most of the preachers out there always talk about the kind, merciful side of him but HE is God. Hosea 12:7 says 'HE is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand. he loveth to oppress.' but after all I conclude that God is wicked to the Wicked and merciful to the Just. I so submit
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by AlfaSeltzer(m): 9:50pm On Jul 05, 2014
Children of god are gathering.

Guess who joins the party.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by Nobody: 10:01pm On Jul 05, 2014
Alfa Seltzer: Children of god are gathering.

Guess who joins the party.


uninvited for that matter undecided
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by AlfaSeltzer(m): 10:35pm On Jul 05, 2014
Elantracey:


uninvited for that matter undecided

We like it that way.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by Goshen360(m): 10:36pm On Jul 05, 2014
Elantracey:


uninvited for that matter undecided

grin grin grin

Leaf them make them dey dance dey go. Whoever is not invited is already ignored.

grin grin grin
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by CrazyMan(m): 11:23pm On Jul 05, 2014
The op shouldn't keep us waiting for too long...this thread looks interesting.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 11:40pm On Jul 05, 2014
Thanks brethren in the house. While others join us let me bring out the issue.

Over the years, christianity has preached about God's love to the point that preaching about the other side of him seems to be a taboo or a no go area in a lot of churches. Yet the truth remains that this other side of him is needed as much as the love side in order to, somehow, have a balanced view of who God is. The other side of God I am talking about is the Judgement/wrath side of him. This judgment side of him has his wrath connected to it too. Yes God is the judge of the whole earth. Now the questions that come to mind with regard to this are-

1. Was Judgment/wrath part of God's original nature before the fall of lucifer or did he develop this nature when lucifer failed?

2. If we say he developed it when lucifer failed it means God isnt perfect(in other words he keeps developing attitudes like human as events unfold) and if we say he had the nature even before lucifer failed, could we then say that God orchestrated the fall of lucifer(i.e. he knew lucifer will fall and still went ahead to create him) in order that this other side of him(judgment/wrath) might be made manifest? Which could also be said that lucifer simply fulfilled God's purpose. (remember the case of Judas Iscarriot who carried out an evil role yet he was also fulfilling God's purpose at that time). Nobody tempted lucifer. Heaven was such a holy place that never knew anything called sin yet the sin of rebellion sprang up in lucifer and he was able to win the hearts of other angels. I believe God saw when the sin entered him and we are not told he was warned. God also must have seen him making efforts to convince the other angels that supported him yet he didnt stop him from convincing them. could it be that God allowed all these to take place that this purpose of manifesting the other side of him might be fulfilled?

3. could we also say that it is this same manifestation of the other side of God that made him plant the tree that brought the fall of man in the garden of Eden(apart from the fact that he gave us freewill)? Surely being an all knowing God, he knew the tree will cause the fall of man yet he allowed it in the garden. Could it then be wrong to say that the tree was also created to serve God's purpose in manifesting this other side of him in continuation of the one that already started in heaven? Because if the whole place were very perfect then there was no other way this other side of God could have been made manifest. It is only an imperfect environment that can serve as a platform for judgment/wrath to manifest. For example, in the case of lucifer, God couldnt have started unleashing his judgement/wrath in a perfect heaven hence the need for the interruption of the perfect state which was brought about by the action of Lucifer. Lucifer couldnt have taken God unawares or did he? Neither would he have been able to conceive rebellion if God did not allow him, or would he?

4. should we say that since God is eternal including his nature(both love and judgment/wrath) hence the eternal torment that he provided for the wicked. Wiping the eternal torment out will then mean wiping a nature of God out of existence, which is impossible. By this I mean that God is not man that he can change his nature and since his nature remains eternal therefore he cant afford to wipe the eternal torment out. (pls keep in mind that the issue here is not about eternal torment but about God's nature).

5. Will it be wrong for one to say that heaven and hell are a manifestation of God's nature. While heaven manifests his loving nature, hell manifests his judgment/wrath nature and since God's nature is eternal then this two places must exist eternally?(Let me pls remind us that his judgment.wrath is not only made manifest in hell but even in this world).

Brethren can contribute on the issues raised so far while waiting for the concluding part. God bless everyone.

To be continued.......
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by maestroferddi: 1:49am On Jul 06, 2014
hopelink1: I really like this post , we see God as a merciful one and most of the preachers out there always talk about the kind, merciful side of him but HE is God. Hosea 12:7 says 'HE is a merchant, the balances of deceit are in his hand. he loveth to oppress.' but after all I conclude that God is wicked to the Wicked and merciful to the Just. I so submit
Take heed that you desist from ascribing to God scriptures you hardly understand. God is an epitome of love and justice. He has always been. The verse you referenced in Hosea 12:7 was not talking of God but a perverted and rebellious Israel. I advise that you get yourself another bible version besides KJV so that you can comprehend scriptures both in sense and context. This is the verse from Amplified Bible, Hosea12:7; "Canaan (Israel - whose ideals have sunk to those of Canaan) is a trader; the balance of deceit are in his hand; he loves to oppress and defraud". Please tread carefully.

2 Likes

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by DKJaleel: 5:19am On Jul 06, 2014
^^^ they are confused and don't even know it..
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by DKJaleel: 5:26am On Jul 06, 2014
alexleo: Thanks brethren in the house. While others join us let me bring out the issue.

Over the years, christianity has preached about God's love to the point that preaching about the other side of him seems to be a taboo or a no go area in a lot of churches. Yet the truth remains that this other side of him is needed as much as the love side in order to, somehow, have a balanced view of who God is. The other side of God I am talking about is the Judgement/wrath side of him. This judgment side of him has his wrath connected to it too. Yes God is the judge of the whole earth. Now the questions that come to mind with regard to this are-

1. Was Judgment/wrath part of God's original nature before the fall of lucifer or did he develop this nature when lucifer failed?

2. If we say he developed it when lucifer failed it means God isnt perfect(in other words he keeps developing attitudes like human as events unfold) and if we say he had the nature even before lucifer failed, could we then say that God orchestrated the fall of lucifer(i.e. he knew lucifer will fall and still went ahead to create him) in order that this other side of him(judgment/wrath) might be made manifest? Which could also be said that lucifer simply fulfilled God's purpose. (remember the case of Judas Iscarriot who carried out an evil role yet he was also fulfilling God's purpose at that time). Nobody tempted lucifer. Heaven was such a holy place that never knew anything called sin yet the sin of rebellion sprang up in lucifer and he was able to win the hearts of other angels. I believe God saw when the sin entered him and we are not told he was warned. God also must have seen him making efforts to convince the other angels that supported him yet he didnt stop him from convincing them. could it be that God allowed all these to take place that this purpose of manifesting the other side of him might be fulfilled?

3. could we also say that it is this same manifestation of the other side of God that made him plant the tree that brought the fall of man in the garden of Eden(apart from the fact that he gave us freewill)? Surely being an all knowing God, he knew the tree will cause the fall of man yet he allowed it in the garden. Could it then be wrong to say that the tree was also created to serve God's purpose in manifesting this other side of him in continuation of the one that already started in heaven? Because if the whole place were very perfect then there was no other way this other side of God could have been made manifest. It is only an imperfect environment that can serve as a platform for judgment/wrath to manifest. For example, in the case of lucifer, God couldnt have started unleashing his judgement/wrath in a perfect heaven hence the need for the interruption of the perfect state which was brought about by the action of Lucifer. Lucifer couldnt have taken God unawares or did he? Neither would he have been able to conceive rebellion if God did not allow him, or would he?

4. should we say that since God is eternal including his nature(both love and judgment/wrath) hence the eternal torment that he provided for the wicked. Wiping the eternal torment out will then mean wiping a nature of God out of existence, which is impossible. By this I mean that God is not man that he can change his nature and since his nature remains eternal therefore he cant afford to wipe the eternal torment out. (pls keep in mind that the issue here is not about eternal torment but about God's nature).

5. Will it be wrong for one to say that heaven and hell are a manifestation of God's nature. While heaven manifests his loving nature, hell manifests his judgment/wrath nature and since God's nature is eternal then this two places must exist eternally?(Let me pls remind us that his judgment.wrath is not only made manifest in hell but even in this world).

Brethren can contribute on the issues raised so far while waiting for the concluding part. God bless everyone.

To be continued.......
This God u are talking about, is a creation of man's mind. Hence those characteristics or sides of his/it..

1 Like

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 7:38am On Jul 06, 2014
DK Jaleel:
This God u are talking about, is a creation of man's mind. Hence those characteristics or sides of his/it..

Same thing we ve been hearing from atheists which I pleaded you people should spare us. Pls I said christians only should contribute. Don't derail the thread pls. Cheers.

2 Likes

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 7:50am On Jul 06, 2014
maestroferddi: Take heed that you desist from ascribing to God scriptures you hardly understand. God is an epitome of love and justice. He has always been. The verse you referenced in Hosea 12:7 was not talking of God but a perverted and rebellious Israel. I advise that you get yourself another bible version besides KJV so that you can comprehend scriptures both in sense and context. This is the verse from Amplified Bible, Hosea12:7; "Canaan (Israel - whose ideals have sunk to those of Canaan) is a trader; the balance of deceit are in his hand; he loves to oppress and defraud". Please tread carefully.

Thanks for correcting him. That's part of what this thread is for. I believe he made that point based on his understanding of the scripture and not to mock or abuse God. We are all learning from one another. God bless you.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by esere826: 10:37am On Jul 06, 2014
alexleo:
..

1. Was Judgment/wrath part of God's original nature before the fall of lucifer or did he develop this nature when lucifer failed?

..
let's add some more questions

do angels also have freewill?
if they do, does this not mean that in the course of time
whether on earth or in heaven
Angels could still rebel??
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by esere826: 11:01am On Jul 06, 2014
ok

let us assume that man and God share some common xteristics
the purpose of such assumption is to help us try to conceive the working of God

The xteristics I am concerned with here is
multiple scenario thinking (AKA imagination), and decisive action (or choice)

If I want to create a fictional mythical/super hero type comic book episode
I would have to think through it.
i then develop characters
and governing principles under which the characters will operate in

my characters could have 5 heads.
It wont be strange to the inhabitants of my comic world
laws in my comic world could include that when the characters perform a certain action twice
then they evaporate

Once i have published my first comic
all other editions will have to work with my underlying logic for consistency


..for example, batman is stuck in Gotham city
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by esere826: 11:07am On Jul 06, 2014
^^
lets stretch my previous thinking further

In the comic book example, we've assumed only one agent -the author
now let's assume that the author develops a video game for this comic
and we can all take up different avatars for the comic and play in this game.
We are however limited by the governing rules of the comic world

So in the comic world, we do have free will,
which is affected by the choice of others
and the principles of the game
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by esere826: 11:13am On Jul 06, 2014
Now back to God

Let's assume that he thinks up a world/universal system and its rules and creates it
it could have been something else,
but it so happens that it was this one that was established

he then created beings with different level of consciousness to partake in the world
we are then governed by the rules of the game
and stir our avatars towards different goals


...u can also check this out
https://www.nairaland.com/1797193/attempt-coceptualize-differentiate-betwee-god
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 11:14am On Jul 06, 2014
Many folks today are either bitter against God or confused about him because they view him just from one side of his nature(love) and use it to condemn the other side(judgement). Right from the garden of Eden God never hid this two nature of him from man. First he told them to eat of every fruit in the garden and had fellowship with them always( a display of hiis love), then he also told them not to eat the other tree that when they do they will die( a display of his judgment). And when they disobeyed him he never pretended about his judgment/wrath. And because God cannot pretend about this other side of him he made a way of escape(out of his love) for man from the foundation of the world (Rev 13:8 lamb slain from the foundation of the world). Obviously many christians pretend about this other side of God thus they don't like preaching about it or giving it an indepth thought that will tend to link it with the fall of Lucifer and the fall of man. yet judging God from only his loving nature makes a mockery of him in relation to this two great falls. Many people have left the faith because of this unbalanced view and its attendant loopholes.

To be continued....
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by AlfaSeltzer(m): 1:24pm On Jul 06, 2014
grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

I love you Satan. See how confused they are.

1 Like

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 2:30pm On Jul 06, 2014
esere826:
let's add some more questions

do angels also have freewill?
if they do, does this not mean that in the course of time
whether on earth or in heaven
Angels could still rebel??

Angels dont have freewill. Never were they given any option to choose in heaven like man. Right from the garden of Eden man was presented with the opportunity to choose(exercise his freewill) but in the case of the angels no such thing exists and nothing was pointed out as what tempted lucifer to sin. Heaven is a perfect place. Thats why i said for lucifer to have done what he did in such a perfect environment, it is very possible that he was just fulfilling God's purpose. These are my views though. When others make their contributions we can learn more. As for the other questions you raise, i ll suggest you wait for me to do my conclusion then you check whether it addressed your question. Also when others make theirs you check too.

2 Likes

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by texanomaly(f): 5:16pm On Jul 06, 2014
Alfa Seltzer: grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin grin

I love you Satan. See how confused they are.

*rolls eyes*

Make up your mind already. Geez...and you call others confused? smh
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 7:49pm On Jul 06, 2014
In conclusion, one can say that obviously, love and judgement/wrath are God's nature and they are eternal nature. He didn't develope them after creation(in other words it wasn't creation that influenced this nature in God) rather they were there before creation(and they have influence on creation). Creation, cannot make him change this nature of his.
I want to believe that it is this obvious reality that neccessited the redemption plan so that man may escape this other side of God since it is eternal and cannot be quenched or changed or wiped away. It was also this reality that neccessited the uncountable warnings which God has been giving man concerning his wrath from Eden to the old testament. Again Jesus' serious warning concerning the eternal wrath of God shows that its such an unbearable thing for anybody to face. The best that we human can do is to embrace God's redemption plan and escape this other side of him for our own eternal good. One can really appreciate God for making this plan for us so that we will not perish. (John 3:16). If he had not provided this way of escape for us we all would ve have perished and there's nothing any of us could ve done about it. We give God the glory. For those who are angry with God, I ll advice that being angry with him will not be of any good to you. Kindly accept Jesus in your life and escape the wrath of God than blame yourself eternally at the end of the day for not accepting him now. God help you. God bless everyone.
Christin brethren pls make your contributions let's learn more.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by dorox(m): 9:17pm On Jul 06, 2014
@ alexleo, If angels do not have free will how did the once perfect and obedient angel chose to rebel against God, along with the myriads of other angels that sided with him? I think that it is the gift of free will that qualifies us and the angels as sons of God and separates us from lower animals that are incapable of choosing whether or not to follow the will of God as Jesus did when he was on earth.
The beauty of free will is that it creates a matrix of choices that is infinitely long and infinitely wide leading to infinite possibilities. You should look at it from the point of view that for every possible action that we might chose to take, God already have a solution such that his ultimate purpose in creating us will not be derailed and His judgement is just one of his solution to some of our choices.
Satan in rebelling against God was not trying to fulfilling God's purpose, he was trying to thwart it, but because God already have a solution in line with his ultimate purpose, no matter the choice we make, it will always branch back to God's purpose.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 9:58pm On Jul 06, 2014
dorox: @ alexleo, If angels do not have free will how did the once perfect and obedient angel chose to rebel against God, and the myriads of other angels that sided with him, how did they come to make that choice? I think that it is the gift of free will that qualifies us and the angels as sons of God and separates us from lower animals that are incapable of choosing whether or not to follow the will of God as Jesus did when he was on earth.
The beauty of free will is that it creates a matrix of choices that is infinitely long and infinitely wide leading to infinite possibilities. You should look at it from the point of view that for every possible action that we might chose to take, God already have a solution such that his ultimate purpose in creating us will not be derailed and His judgement is just one of his solution to some of our choices.
Satan in rebelling against God was not trying to fulfilling God's purpose, he was trying to thwart it, but because God already have a solution in line with his ultimate purpose, no matter the choice we make, it will always branch back to God's purpose.

Thanks dear. If we say angels have freewill then i will ask- what were the options presented to them as we saw in the case of man in the garden of Eden? We know heaven as a holy and perfect place where there is no evil. Nothing like sin existed before lucifer sinned so how did the choice to sin come about in a perfect being(lucifer) who was dwelling in such a perfect place? Choice is made when there are existing options to choose from but in a situation where there are no existing option as in the case of lucifer, how come he "chose to rebel"? could it be that sin existed in heaven for him to have made the choice? For the other angels one may say that lucifer presented an option to them which they fail into but for lucifer,who presented option to him in the first place? And can we really say that the fact that Lucifer presented them with option qualifies them as free moral agents?

Secondly, how do you justify God's all knowing nature in relation to lucifers act- Was God not aware that lucifer will rebel against him before creating him? If he wasnt then where lies his all-knowing nature? And If he was aware why then did he create him if not for a purpose?
If we say lucifer wanted to thwart God's plan then what could ve led to that? Was he aware that God was going to create man and if he was aware, was he going to lose anything if man is created? Was the creation of man going to jeopardize his position in heaven and may be in order to save his position decided to fight God? God bless you.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by dorox(m): 10:38pm On Jul 06, 2014
The bible did not say much about heaven and its spirit inhabitant but it made us aware that satan was created perfect and later became disobedient. That to me is an indication of choice, would you not agree?
It is late now, I will reply the rest of your post tomorrow.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by alexleo(m): 10:52pm On Jul 06, 2014
dorox: The bible did not say much about heaven and its spirit inhabitant but it made us aware that satan was created perfect and later became disobedient. That to me is an indication of choice, would you not agree?
It is late now, I will reply the rest of your post tomorrow.

I'm not saying you are wrong yet (my presentation is not perfect), rather i want to see how your views will project a better answer to the issues i raised. So as you address the issues, i ll ask questions where i find confusing. See you tomorrow. God bless your night.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by nairalife2013(m): 11:26pm On Jul 06, 2014
DKJaleel:
This God u are talking about, is a creation of man's mind. Hence those characteristics or sides of his/it..
u can post atimes widout quoting. Esp Wen itz so long.
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by nairalife2013(m): 11:53pm On Jul 06, 2014
God regreted creating man. Is it true? why must God regret His action if he is allseeing, allpresent and allpowerful. Men hav all d reasons to ask such questions, but may not hav d right to get a clear answer. Being a child of God does not giv u d right to all that belongs to God. This is, I recently found out as d reality of life dawn on me, a very painful fact. I suppose Hope is dat we hav such privilege only Wen we get to heaven. Dat aside, God's strength is in his ability to keep his secrets. Never chastise Him, even if he let's d worst things happen to u; leave things u don't understand in status quo; some questions will remain unanswered till d end Wen God wil finally show up. Even as I have always personally considered this painful life as unnecesary, owing to d widespread agony humans go thro, I will never talk badly of God. I can only get angry momentarily wid Him inside my heart, and ask him some private ancient questions, then let it go. Try as u may, no human can comprehend God. Am sure even other spirits in d realms cant. That is His grandeur and glory. That may also be is sport. I don't know. Dis post came at a time when a lot of tragedies hav befallen by extended family, making my mum traumatically dazed and unable to recover. This is a very wicked evil place. We must live with this knowledge always in our minds.

2 Likes

Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by Nobody: 12:05am On Jul 07, 2014
Nice post and hello all.

I will make two quick comments and hopefully join tomorrow evening ;

1. All Angels and Men have free will , God does not create robots except of course animals which are rather instinctive.

2. God being the source of eternal life does not in any way infer eternal torment , it rather signifies eternal life for all who make the right choice and the lack of it for those who make the wrong choices.


See you later .
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by simdam500(m): 12:30am On Jul 07, 2014
Speechless
Re: The Other Side Of God. (christians Make Your Contributions So That We Can Learn) by texanomaly(f): 4:40am On Jul 07, 2014
I had a comment, but changed my mind.

(1) (2) (3) (Reply)

A TRINITARIAN Should Explain This Scripture .... / RCCG Holy Ghost Congress 2016 (Day 3) / The Bible Is Overrated

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 96
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.