morpheus24:

Oh they are gonna do more than moan and groan, seeing that they have the finances and higly qualified lawyers, they usually end up watering down the laws for "their" people as usual and the ruling party usually buckles under that financial power pressure. In the end the laws will target the less affluent and less priviledged which is what they are intended to do in the first place in the guise of "reforming" immigration laws.

I am African by birth, by descent, by heritage, by blood and by ancestry. Everything that happens on this continent should concern me or shouldn't it?

Educate yourself or continue wallowing in ignorance about the continent.

You are a true African. Unfortunately the majority of Africans don't concern themselves with what happens in far-flung places, unless it's extremely out of the ordinary(the lack of participation in this thread proves it). You have posted yourself that most Nigerians have no clue about South Africa and only know what their Igbo brothers tell them. I agree.

Please don't give whites too much credit, they can't use money to change laws. I can give you many examples where they have failed while you can give one or two where they have succeded. The recent e-toll litigation lasted several years with them losing. It's only after the ruling party lost some votes from the black middleclass in the May election that they are now promising to review it. Do you want more examples? Perhaps the land reform laws or black economic empowerment? They are forever challenging the employment equity laws which forces companies to hire black people. Just google "affirmative action killed babies" to see for yourself. Tell me if you want more example.

paniki:
Please don't give whites too much credit, they can't use money to change laws. I can give you many examples where they have failed while you can give one or two where they have succeded. The recent e-toll litigation lasted several years with them losing. It's only after the ruling party lost some votes from the black middleclass in the May election that they are now promising to review it. Do you want more examples? Perhaps the land reform laws or black economic empowerment? They are forever challenging the employment equity laws which forces companies to hire black people. Just google "affirmative action killed babies" to see for yourself. Tell me if you want more example.

THe only irony that I see is that most of the examples you have enumerated above are situations that are prevalent outside the "power" range of the Western cape and so will this particular law which will affect a majority of refugee/immigrants who reside predominantly outside of the western cape while a majority of the investors/expatriates/tourists as usual will find refuge in the legal wranglings that will be accomodating in this province.

morpheus24:

THe only irony that I see is that most of the examples you have enumerated above are situations that are prevalent outside the "power" range of the Western cape and so will this particular law which will affect a majority of refugee/immigrants who reside predominantly outside of the western cape while a majority of the investors/expatriates/tourists as usual will find refuge in the legal wranglings that will be accomodating in this province.

I think that you don't know what you are talking about. Much of the power in South Africa is centred in Gauteng province, that's the economic and political hub of SA and the province in which most of South Africa's white population lives. Gauteng province is home to Pretoria where political power is based and Johannesburg where economic power is based. The beauty and oddity of Cape Town has cleary hypnotised you into believing made up rubbish. A lot of your posts give the impression that you consider Western Cape to be some special economic zone separate from South Africa. Please note that it is a province just like any other in SA, it only has a white leader because black people are out-number by coloured people who make up half the population of that province and they feel that the black national government is focusing too much on uplifting black people while ignoring them. Many of them throw out comments such as "back in apatheid we were not white enough, now we are not black enough".

One issue that Cape Town continues to succeed with is keeping parliament there. Everytime there are suggestion that parliament should be moved to Gauteng to save government cost, the city of Cape Town and chamber of commerce complain that this would wipe out billions from the Cape economy. So they continue to have it there and all the government people who are based in Gauteng have to fly to Cape Town on a regular basis to attend committee meetings and other functions of governance. This helps keep hotels and other touristy places busy.

Otherwise there isn't much power in Western Cape. Major decisions don't get made there with the exception of parliament decisions and a few big companies like Shoprite that are headquartered there but have most of their administrative employees based in Gauteng. Cape Town is just a place for rich people to live in expensive houses and enjoy the sea view with the mountain backdrop.

soilsista:
Bitso!! Maswafu fase please

Wa befelwa bohloko so?? A ke gane there are the bad ones mara bateng that contribute positively, let's not overlook that.

Ai, le wena wa kwatisa ka nako enngwe watseba. Fela ke kopa o ntshwarelo haelo mona keile kao halefela nnake. Hake iketse, ke lerato la naha.

Sepheo sa melao ena ke ho dila le dinwamadi, eseng with those who contribute positively.

morpheus24:

I am all for taking care of your citizens but when "people' are demonized and made scape goats for a governments failure to provide for its people the buck stops there.

Although immigration laws need to be revamped from time to time to address loop holes, these ones seem to deter legitimate immigrants from legalizing themselves in a sensible manner.

Cry them a river joor! Did you people not blame their people's appetite for drugs when Nigerians come to sell them drugs. So be it, they are trying to protect their people from their big appetite for drugs.

Secondly, South African immigration laws have been abused so much that they have lost a lot of good standing and visa free arrangement with many countries because of foreigners using their passports to purport evil, drug smuggling, people trafficking, EU mafias on killing spree, terrorist also have SA passports. This would eventually have ended horribly bad for SA.

I think South is doing a great relook and calculation of previous bad immigration laws. In a country with almost 30% unemployment why should they worry about foreigners loosing employment? Really now, they need to take care of their own first and later others.

I think this a good law to be honest, foreigners now can go back home apply afresh for work and resident permits come to SA for jobs that are of rare skills that South Africans could not fill. As for the married for citizenship no more automatic application, waiting period of 5 years and going back home would also be a good move(not sure how that is dealt with) But this would encourage and help all the married bridegroom to take their brides home instead of dumping them and bringing their foreign wives after five years.

It should be good news for all the Naija wives & wives to be only if they can think clearly.

What I like it is non racist, everyone including the Europeans are affected hence the whites are screaming with loudest voices, if this law only affected Africans you will see whites deafening silence.

So Kudos SA, a welcomed development!!!

Tumisang:
Ai, le wena wa kwatisa ka nako enngwe watseba. Fela ke kopa o ntshwarelo haelo mona keile kao halefela nnake. Hake iketse, ke lerato la naha.
Sepheo sa melao ena ke ho dila le dinwamadi, eseng with those who contribute positively.

Lol go sharp Tumza!!

paniki: I support these new regulations. Naijas should not concern themselves with possible negative impact on tourism, investment, trade, etc. for a far away country like South Africa. Let us handle our affairs the way we see fit.

Any country is free to do what Kenya has now done
www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-06-27-kenya-and-south-africas-mutually-destructive-visa-race/

I really do not see the big hooler hoo about all African countries tightening their immigration laws that will not stop travelling or trading but people will just learn to do things the right way and follow the visa requirements of the intended destination. U.S has the most strictest immigration laws, does that stop travelling there? NO! So what's the matter here? Are the no foreigners working in the US? Black people just love lopsided things and hate doing things in order and the right way.

I do not even know why South Africans should not also be required to fulfill all the laws of the African countries in order travelling there. When you are travelling for business or tourism or whatever just do you papers and Voila!

I think people like complaining in this day and age of terrorism and drugs, human trafficking, international mafias all hands should be on the deck. So such people are not lost in space having 4 or 5 citizenships. Why? A good example the " Fizzy" character arrested with five passports of which one was South African just to do evil.Greed!

unapologetic:

I totally agree with you.... Most well educated South Africans don't put blames on foreigners...... I sometimes wonder what job the foreigners are taking.... I watched an interview on SABC a few days where the Home affairs minister was quizzed about the reform in the immigration law... he seems to know what he's saying but it's also pretty obvious that they are targeting foreigners....... it's so sad that they are trying to make the rainbow nation an unwelcome place for foreigners...... have been coming to S.A since 2010 but with this new law, I wonder if I will still be coming back in the future after my next exit
.

Joor, what are you trying to say? @bolded immigration laws obviously are there for foreigners. Lol

Apatheist:
Not at all.
They are the "gateway to Africa"
Nigeria is the giant of Africa.
In essence, they are the ticket to the main attraction: Nigeria.

Gbam! Now why the outcry?

Apatheist:
Kikikikikiki.
The same way there's no such thing as AIDS.
in Mbeki 's voice: There is no such thing as AIDS, it is a ploy by Western countries. *click *click*

Don't be foolish! Mbeki said no one dies of AIDS **in Thabo's voice** cleaning his pipe

paniki:

You like talking about the Western Cape. But I understand, it's a peculiar place in which black South Africans are out-numbered and have always been out-numbered since the Dutch landed on Cape Point in 1652. Cape Town is the first place that white people landed on in South Africa so it makes sense that they hold on so dear to it. White people have lived in that place for over 350 years and they are not going anywhere, regardless of any regulation. All they can do is moan and pay for endless court battles but that must not concern a Nigerian.

Outnumbered by whom, exactly? If you are going to
speak on issues understand them first.

Apatheist:
It concerns us if these clicking things from the Eastern Cape come to fu ck things up.

You see, you are now insulting the natives of the land to prove what exactly? Let me tell you something if the DA was in power they were going to kick out only the black immigrants and leave their white counterparts because they need more whites naturalising in SA not to be greatly outnumbered. Now they are only using Zimbabweans plight as a cover up of their own securities. And trust me Nigerians would be the first to go, you would be saying good bye to your SA first love, Cape Town sooner than you could say " click".

Make me wonder, from what you have said above if you are not one of the bouncers in Cape Town's Greenpoint, Cubana, who once told us (while in Cape Town for the Cape Town Jazz festival when we were putting him in his place for trying to rob us) " this not Khayelitsha! You must go back to Khayelitsha!" We all packed up laughing and responded by saying " sorry Oga, this looks very much like Enugu, in your dreams"

Imagine the audacity I see now it runs in your blood!

BluIvy:

Joor, what are you trying to say? @bolded immigration laws obviously are there for foreigners. Lol

Oh sorry.. what I meant was that the law was designed to drive foreigners out of Mzanzi

BluIvy:

You see, you are now insulting the natives of the land to prove what exactly? Let me tell you something if the DA was in power they were going to kick out only the black immigrants and leave their white counterparts because they need more whites naturalising in SA not to be greatly outnumbered. Now they are only using Zimbabweans plight as a cover up of their own securities. And trust me Nigerians would be the first to go, you would be saying good bye to your SA first love, Cape Town sooner than you could say " click".

Make me wonder, from what you have said above if you are not one of the bouncers in Cape Town's Greenpoint, Cubana, who once told us (while in Cape Town for the Cape Town Jazz festival when we were putting him in his place for trying to rob us) " this not Khayelitsha! You must go back to Khayelitsha!" We all packed up laughing and responded by saying " sorry Oga, this looks very much like Enugu, in your dreams"

Imagine the audacity I see now it runs in your blood!

The Xhosa people are the natives of the land?
All this time I've been thinking it's the Khoisan.

BluIvy:

Outnumbered by whom, exactly? If you are going to
speak on issues understand them first.

Morpheus24 who I have debated for a few years now on this forum will tell you that I'm not the kind to post unsubstantiated rubbish. StatsSA tells us that there are 32 black people out of every 100 people in WC. That means that they are out-numbered by other races. DA would not win elections in WC if black people made up the majority population of WC. There's a reason why they fear black people from Eastern Cape and call them all sorts of names.

BluIvy:

Gbam! Now why the outcry?

The outcry is from Zimbabweans living legally in the country.
The law, ironically, does not affect the illegals.

Apatheist:
The Xhosa people are the natives of the land?
All this time I've been thinking it's the Khoisan.

Well you thought wrong. You have been corrected.

paniki:

Morpheus24 who I have debated for a few years now on this forum will tell you that I'm not the kind to post unsubstantiated rubbish. StatsSA tells us that there are 32 black people out of every 100 people in WC. That means that they are out-numbered by other races. DA would not win elections in WC if black people made up the majority population of WC. There's a reason why they fear black people from Eastern Cape and call them all sorts of names.

Look Mr Panike, The question was outnumbered by whom? coloured not whites. Now that I am sure you got that, I did not need your long epistle about SA politics. Thank you!

BluIvy:

Well you thought wrong. You have been corrected.

Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion


The Khoisan had been living in the land before the Nguni Bantus and other Bantus came.
They (the Khoisan) are the natives, batswana

Apatheist:
The outcry is from Zimbabweans living legally in the country.
The law, ironically, does not affect the illegals.

So why you the illegal, are here crying all over the thread? There's no Zimbabwean in this thread is there?

BluIvy:

So why you the illegal, are here crying all over the thread? There's no Zimbabwean in this thread is there?

I am not illegal.
Tswana, how does South African affairs concern you?

Apatheist:
Http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantu_expansion


The Khoisan had been living in the land before the Nguni Bantus and other Bantus came.
They (the Khoisan) are the natives, batswana

Yea, tell it to the birds, Oga. I do not have to discuss South Africa with an illegal immigrant using wikipedia as a source. Just shift, O! Let SA deal with their issue oo! Lagos will be deporting your people soon, now that is what you need to concern yourself with.

Apatheist:
I am not illegal.
Tswana, how does South African affairs concern you?

Dual citizenship, mom and grandparents are SAns and Xhosa's too!

BluIvy:

Dual citizenship, mom and grandparents are SAns and Xhosa's too!

Okay.

BluIvy:

Yea, tell it to the birds, Oga. I do not have to discuss South Africa with an illegal immigrant using wikipedia as a source. Just shift, O! Let SA deal with their issue oo! Lagos will be deporting your people soon, now that is what you need to concern yourself with.

Illegal?
LMFAO.
Bantu, what I am telling you is that the Khoisan are the owners of Southern Africa.
Everyone else is a foreigner or "settler" including Zulu, Xhosa's, Colored, afrikaaner, etc.

Apatheist:
Illegal?
LMFAO.
Bantu, what I am telling you is that the Khoisan are the owners of Southern Africa.
Everyone else is a foreigner or "settler" including Zulu, Xhosa's, Colored, afrikaaner, etc.

I am proud Bantu and I can see that Somali goat really damaged your psyches. Shame, sorry now comout of other people businesses o. Na only you waka come, from NNaija with Khoisan ?

BluIvy:

I am proud Bantu and I can see that Somali goat really damaged your psyches. Shame, sorry now comout of other people businesses o. Na only you waka come, from NNaija with Khoisan ?

I am not a Scumali.
Khoisan are the real owners. You guys should voestek!

BluIvy:

Look Mr Panike, The question was outnumbered by whom? coloured not whites. Now that I am sure you got that, I did not need your long epistle about SA politics. Thank you!

But you failed to see the obvious so it was my duty to break it down for you.

Your question gave me the idea that you did not think black people are out-number in WC. And your patronising comment advised me to not speak about stuff I don't understand hence I started off by telling you that I don't post unsubstantiated rubbish. Maybe you should not be quick to attack next time. Otherwise all love little war.

paniki:

But you failed to see the obvious so it was my duty to break it down for you.

Your question gave me the idea that you did not think black people are out-number in WC. And your patronising comment advised me to not speak about stuff I don't understand hence I started off by telling you that I don't post unsubstantiated rubbish. Maybe you should not be quick to attack next time. Otherwise all love little war.

Actually I get irritated when people especially foreigners intentionally want to separate black SA from coloureds. Its the job of the apartheid masters and no one should add to it.

Like this pathetic fool who is coming here yabbing rubbish about Khoisan s vs Xhosa's.the fool is eating out of some white persons rubbish bin and come here to nonsense.

BluIvy:

Like this pathetic fool who is coming here yabbing rubbish about Khoisan s vs Xhosa's.the fool is eating out of some white persons rubbish bin and come here to nonsense.

Say my name, magosha.
It's not Xhosa's vs Khoisan. It's all the Bantus from the other parts of Africa, who claim southern Africa as their native land and are xenophobic to others. They have no right. They do not own the land. The Khoisan predate them by millennia.
They are "settlers" Also.
Like the afrikaaners, like the colored, like the other Africans.

BluIvy:

Actually I get irritated when people especially foreigners intentionally want to separate black SA from coloureds. Its the job of the apartheid masters and no one should add to it.

Like this pathetic fool who is coming here yabbing rubbish about Khoisan s vs Xhosa's.the fool is eating out of some white persons rubbish bin and come here to nonsense.

You should not get irritated because it's South Africans who identify themselves that way. Every time we fill in some form or the other there will be a section asking if we're black, white, coloured, indian or other. And all of us are happy to select. StatsSA asked the question in the 2011 census and 9% of the population chose to identify themselves as coloured not necessarily because they are mixed-race but more because they view themselves as belonging to the coloured culture.

Apatheist:
Say my name, magosha.
It's not Xhosa's vs Khoisan. It's all the Bantus from the other parts of Africa, who claim southern Africa as their native land and are xenophobic to others. They have no right. They do not own the land. The Khoisan predate them by millennia.
They are "settlers" Also.
Like the afrikaaners, like the colored, like the other Africans.

You know who magosha is, the woman who gave birth to you. Stop crying and crawl back to your stinking country. You have no business in SA affairs. Other African my foot, SA is not Lagos that you wanna attach by force. This is why I applaud the SA new immigration laws, they will get read of sums like you. Now stop with the name calling you will not like my response.