Right from the Old Testament,there is prediction of the coming of Christ and of how he will suffer,be betrayed,be crucified and by that he will save mankind. The betrayal was foretold even before Judas was born. There were many other ways by which Jesus would have laid down his life but the choice was for him to be betrayed by Judas first.Judas might have committed abomination by betraying Jesus but that is a matter between him and God. For Christians,we should acknowledge that his action led to our redemption. After all he repented when he realized his mistake. Many of us today commit worse atrocities that do not serve us or any one else any good.What would have happened if at the final hour Judas had refused betraying Jesus,how else would the scripture have been fulfilled. Of course you would say that he could not have done otherwise. The reason is that he was programed to behave so from the word go.

This is on of the most confusing question in christianity, only the holy spirit can guide a person to know the truth.

I will be disapointed if I go to heaven and do not see that guy.

mark 14:21 ".....
New International Version
The Son of Man will go just as it is written
about him. But woe to that man who
betrays the Son of Man! It would be better
for him if he had not been born."
Everything in this world is about individual choices,it could've been Peter or James or even Mary.Judas made his choice and ended it with suicide,hes more likely in the deepest & darkest part of hell than heaven.

The same way devil pushed judas to eternal damnation, same way he is pushing majority of humans today. If judas have repented, he would have been forgiven. He betrayed Christ, yes. Didn't Peter betray Christ thrice?? JESUS CHRIST forsee both of them will betray Him. He even told Peter. Yet, Peter still betrayed Him. But after the betrayal, what next? Peter redeemed himself, judas cursed himself. Many curse themself today. Repent or perish

Tallesty1: I will be disapointed if I go to heaven and do not see that guy.

hehehehehehe. BTW, Judas was not programmed or forced to be the 'fall guy'. He allowed satan to enter him.

Image123:

hehehehehehe. BTW, Judas was not programmed or forced to be the 'fall guy'. He allowed satan to enter him.

Same way he entered Peter but Jesus prayed for Peter, a privilege Judas never had.

Tallesty1: Same way he entered Peter but Jesus prayed for Peter, a privilege Judas never had.

Peter didn't commit suicide. Indeed, i'll rather die than commit suicide.

Image123:

Peter didn't commit suicide. Indeed, i'll rather die than commit suicide.

Yea....... Because Jesus prayed for him.

jacksonite:
Right from the Old Testament,there is prediction of the coming of Christ
and of how he will suffer, be betrayed,be crucified and by that he will save mankind.

The betrayal was foretold even before Judas was born.
There were many other ways by which Jesus would have laid down his life
but the choice was for him to be betrayed by Judas first.
Judas might have committed abomination by betraying Jesus but that is a matter between him and God.
For Christians,we should acknowledge that his action led to our redemption. After all he repented when he realized his mistake.
Many of us today commit worse atrocities that do not serve us or any one else any good.
What would have happened if at the final hour Judas had refused betraying Jesus,how else would the scripture have been fulfilled.
Of course you would say that he could not have done otherwise.
The reason is that he was programed to behave so from the word go.

I am honest and sincere, I am not trying to pull a Socrates stunt here with these questions ooo:

What are the many other ways by which Jesus could have laid down his life?
Why did He then, not chose any of the many other ways by which Jesus could have laid down his life?
Who was the programmer?
How was he programmed to behave so from the word go?

Tallesty1:

I will be disapointed if I go to heaven and do not see that guy.

Who exactly would you be disappointed not seeing in heaven if/when you get there?
Why do you expect (i.e. what is the qualification(s)) him to be in heaven in the first place at all?

Tallesty1: Same way he entered Peter but Jesus prayed for Peter, a privilege Judas never had.

Why did Peter deserve a prayer and Judas never had one?
What made Jesus pray for Peter but not pray for Judas?

BabaGnoni:

Why did Peter deserve a prayer and Judas never had one?
What made Jesus pray for Peter but not pray for Judas?

That is what I'm asking.

Image123:

hehehehehehe. BTW, Judas was not programmed or forced to be the 'fall guy'. He allowed satan to enter him.

Doesn't satan enter everyone else?
Didn't satan enter Eden, as an example, to start with?
God even allows satan free rein, as Job will testify
Satan goes anywhere satan likes
Satan is always walking up and down, patrolling the earth, watching everyone and everything that goes on
which is why one is advised to be watchful, be alert, be sober, mindful and not to give satan a foothold

Image123:

Peter didn't commit suicide. Indeed, i'll rather die than commit suicide.

How do you mean? What are you on about?
Why would Peter want to intentionally kill himself?
What for, what over, what about?

Tallesty1: That is what I'm asking.

oic
but apart from you asking, do you know why, yourself?

BabaGnoni:

oic
but apart from you asking, do you know why, yourself?

Honestly I don't

nedu2000: mark 14:21 ".....
New International Version
The Son of Man will go just as it is written
about him. But woe to that man who
betrays the Son of Man! It would be better
for him if he had not been born."
Everything in this world is about individual choices,it could've been Peter or James or even Mary.Judas made his choice and ended it with suicide,hes more likely in the deepest & darkest part of hell than heaven.

Yes o, Judas made his choice! Luke 17:1 confirms our view.

Tallesty1: Yea....... Because Jesus prayed for him.

i thought Jesus prayed for all His disciples?

Tallesty1:

Honestly I don't

oic again, as I thought you did know...

It is very similar to what happened to Pharaoh.
Both minds have already been made up
there is no point wasting time and effort on either anymore,
as they both were hellbent (i.e. both were determined to achieve at all costs what they've set their minds on to do)

The answers lie in the following verses:

But I will make Pharaoh's heart stubborn so I can multiply my miraculous signs and wonders in the land of Egypt.
- Exodus 7:3 NLT

But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart, and just as the LORD had predicted to Moses, Pharaoh refused to listen.
- Exodus 9:12 NLT

23He replied, “One of you who has just eaten from this bowl with me will betray me.
24For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.
It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!”
25Judas, the one who would betray him, also asked, “Rabbi, am I the one?”
And Jesus told him, “You have said it.”
- Matthew 26:23-25 NLT

When Judas had eaten the bread, Satan entered into him.
Then Jesus told him,
"Hurry and do what you're going to do."
- John 13:27 NLT

Judas like Pharaoh, can be compared with wet sponges...
Wet sponges that want to dry out the water keeping them wet, which eventually ends to getting hardened up
but are kept from drying up and hardening
by God keeping them wet through continually pouring water on the sponges
The moment God cuts off the stream of water pouring on them,
the sponges in a matter of time will dry out, harden up and be brittle

Have you ever tried pottery,
where you put the clay on the pottery wheel to make a vase
The clump of clay is always resisting you shaping it into the vase
The clump of clay will fall off the pottery wheel unfinished and damaged, the moment you let go your hands in molding it
Keep your hands on it until the end, you'll have a beautiful vase

Another analogy is this:
Kid A and kid B, are sizing each other up, breathing into each one's face, each raring for a fight
Right at the nick of time, you step in to prevent the fight starting
but kid B, will not have none of that as adrenalin and testosterone is pumping high
Kid B is spoiling for the fight, despite all appeal or effort to prevent it
Everyone knows kid B is no match for Kid A, as kid A will beat the living day lights out of kid B
but kid B does NOT agree nor wants to know (i.e. kid B is hellbent, determined to fight at all costs, not matter what)
In effect, kid B's heart is hardening for/to fight
You harden kid B's heart, the moment you step back and allow kid B to have the fight, he's so much set his heart on

That's how Pharaoh's heart got hardened (i.e. the restraining, like in the case of kid B, was let off)
and similar happened to Judas, he was let go (i.e. as he was a lost cause, who couldn't be changed for the better)

BabaGnoni:
How do you mean? What are you on about?
Why would Peter want to intentionally kill himself?
What for, what over, what about?

Same reason Judas allegedly committed suicide.

Image123:

Same reason Judas allegedly committed suicide.

State clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt what the reason(s) is please.

BabaGnoni:

Have you ever tried pottery,
where you put the clay on the pottery wheel to make a vase
The clump of clay is always resisting you shaping it into the vase
The clump of clay will fall off the pottery wheel unfinished and damaged, the moment you let go your hands in molding it
Keep your hands on it until the end, you'll have a beautiful vase

loved this part, for something else though not this issue.

BabaGnoni:

State clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt what the reason(s) is please.

He disappointed everybody.

Image123:

loved this part, for something else though not this issue.

...and what would that "something else" be?

Image123:

He disappointed everybody.

Do you always peddle one-liners?
State clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt what the reason(s) is please, was the request.

Did Peter too not disappoint everybody?
Why would Judas commit suicide based on that and Peter wouldn't?

BabaGnoni:

Doesn't satan enter everyone else?
Didn't satan enter Eden, as an example, to start with?
God even allows satan free rein, as Job will testify
Satan goes anywhere satan likes
Satan is always walking up and down, patrolling the earth, watching everyone and everything that goes on
which is why one is advised to be watchful, be alert, be sober, mindful and not to give satan a foothold

i'll get back to this i hope. i'll need a bible to refresh. But in one breath, i mean the 'foothold' thing. satan had a foothold.

BabaGnoni:

...and what would that "something else" be?

private, thanks.

BabaGnoni:

Do you always peddle one-liners?
State clearly and in detail, leaving no room for confusion or doubt what the reason(s) is please, was the request.

Did Peter too not disappoint everybody?
Why would Judas commit suicide based on that and Peter wouldn't?

My point exactly. Peter didn't commit suicide despite disappointing everybody.

Image123:
private, thanks.

You can tell me in private
and the secret will be safe with me
Here is my addy to mail it to: deleted

Image123:
My point exactly. Peter didn't commit suicide despite disappointing everybody.

I can't exactly see your point.
I think stating the point clearly, in detail, and leaving no room for confusion or doubt what the point is would be a good idea.
So why would Judas commit suicide then, if Peter disappointed everybody just like him but he didn't commit suicide despite

i want to keep it private please, thanks. i simply liked and learnt something from that part. You're overreacting i think.