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Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? - Religion (4) - Nairaland

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Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 9:13pm On Jul 21, 2014
BabaGnoni:

Same as Adam, Eve, Cain, Pharaoh, Caiaphas etc did not have a choice?

That's the bit you don't seem to get bro, I don't think pharaoh and caiaphas can be added to that list....
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:26pm On Jul 21, 2014
shdemidemi:

That's the bit you don't seem to get, pharaoh and caiaphas cannot be added to that list....

and this is the blue bit bro, you don't seem to be getting:

For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.

It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT


I'll make it easier, forget Judas, forget Caiaphas, forget Pharaoh, forget etc etc
Let's empty the tray and bend down adding items back in...
Let's go back to in the beginning, go back to Eden

Why? As I am asking you again, why was Adam and Eve left alone with tree of knowledge of good & evil
when God who by the way, is Omniscient, knew they will eat of the fruit of the tree,
thereby commit sin and end up with a death payoff
Think deeply before responding as I don't want you giving a God on an ego trip or God having an ego massaging session response
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 9:35pm On Jul 21, 2014
BabaGnoni:

and this is the blue bit bro, you don't seem to be getting:

For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.

It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT


I'll make it easier, forget Judas, forget Caiaphas, forget Pharaoh, forget etc etc
Let's empty the tray and bend down adding items back in...
Let's go back to in the beginning, go back to Eden

Why? As I am asking you again, why was Adam and Eve left alone with tree of knowledge of good & evil
when God who by the way, is Omniscient, knew they will eat of the fruit of the tree,
thereby commit sin and end up with a death payoff
Think deeply before responding as I don't want you giving a God on an ego trip or God having an ego massaging session response

I gave you the answer before, didn't I?

I said God created man knowing fully well that man will fall but He also knew He would forgive mankind to show He is a loving, fair and compassionate God, but the devil's condemnation is without forgiveness. God gave mankind a gift of salvation that man could never have worked for nor achieve by anything they possess within their flesh.

Romans 11:29 says

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


He remains faithful and righteous to Whomever He elects... God knew man will fail but He will never fail.

Romans 4:7

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”[b]
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:50pm On Jul 21, 2014
shdemidemi:

I gave you the answer before, didn't I?

I said God created man knowing man will fall
but He knew He would forgive mankind to show He is a loving, fair and compassionate God,
but the devil's condemnation is without forgiveness.
God gave mankind a gift of salvation that man could never have worked for nor achieve by anything they possess within their flesh.

Romans 11:29 says

For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

He remains faithful and righteous to Whomever He elects... God knew man will fail but He will never fail.

Romans 4:7

7 “Blessed are those
whose transgressions are forgiven,
whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the one
whose sin the Lord will never count against them.”

If that is the response, I guess I am done on this thread then
- Thanks for the sparring though bro.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 9:53pm On Jul 21, 2014
BabaGnoni:

If that is the response, I guess I am done on this thread then
- Thanks for the sparring though bro.


No worries atall.. Thanks to you too bro.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by jacksonite: 2:13pm On Jul 22, 2014
Thank you guys for taking your time to discuss exhaustively on my thread.I will take time and study your positions before I make up my mind. Cheers!
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by Nobody: 2:53pm On Jul 22, 2014
In other words: he wasn't responsible for his actions? I guess you would say he was also programmed to commit suicide?
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 6:12pm On Jul 22, 2014
striktlymi: In other words: he wasn't responsible for his actions? I guess you would say he was also programmed to commit suicide?

Of course he was responsible for his action, although his action fits perfectly into God's plan for him and by extension, the world. That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend. God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be.

Will God judge him based on his morals or lack of it? No.

He will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish. By grace Noah was saved even before Abraham or Israel.

Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth. Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles. It was the right time to leave the scene.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 7:18pm On Jul 22, 2014
jacksonite:
Thank you guys for taking your time to discuss exhaustively on my thread.I will take time and study your positions before I make up my mind. Cheers!

Bro. You're welcome jaare.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by Nobody: 8:36pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Of course he was responsible for his action, although his action fits perfectly into God's plan for him and by extension, the world.

God does not plan for people to do evil.

shdemidemi:
That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend. God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be.

I don't believe in predestination. Every man decides what he does without any divine influence.

shdemidemi:
Will God judge him based on his morals or lack of it? No.

He would be judged based on his actions.

shdemidemi:
He will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish. By grace Noah was saved even before Abraham or Israel.

To believe in Jesus simply means to do the will of the one who sent him. If someone claims to believe in Jesus without doing what God commands then that individual is just deceiving himself.

shdemidemi:
Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth. Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles. It was the right time to leave the scene.

Suicide is a very serious sin. No man has any right to take his life. If someone is done with whatever God wants for him or her on Earth then God should be the one to take the individual. Elijah is a perfect case study.

1 Like

Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 8:55pm On Jul 22, 2014
striktlymi:

God does not plan for people to do evil. .

Do you think judas' action caught God by surprise?

Was it God's doing that Joseph's brothers betrayed and sold him out? I know you know the full story, how God used what they thought to be evil to actually be the needed propelling force that moved Joseph from where he was to where God was taking him.

My friend, what you call evil isn't necessarily what God call evil sometimes. On the flip side what you call monumental and good, God calls evil and wicked.


striktlymi:
I don't believe in predestination. Every man decides what he does without any divine influence..

What then would you say about this-

Romans 9
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

striktlymi:
He would be judged based on his actions..

If you were to be judged based on your actions, will you escape God's wrath?


striktlymi:
[b]To believe in Jesus simply means to do the will of the one who sent him. [/b]If someone claims to believe in Jesus without doing what God commands then that individual is just deceiving himself..

Where did you find that definition of "believe" ? I hope that isn't the definition made up from assumptions.

striktlymi:
Suicide is a very serious sin. No man has any right to take his life. If someone is done with whatever God wants for him or her on Earth then God should be the one to take the individual. Elijah is a perfect case study. .

Who defines how grave a sin is?

How is suicide different from other sins Christians commit even in their walk with God?

Is suicide one of the sins beyond God's forgiveness?
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 8:58pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Of course he was responsible for his action, although his action fits perfectly into God's plan for him and by extension, the world.
That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend.
God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be.

Will God judge him based on his morals or lack of it? No.

He will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish.
By grace Noah was saved even before Abraham or Israel.

Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth.
Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles.
It was the right time to leave the scene.

Everyone could see you, from a mile, gravitating towards this spurious conclusion(s).

We discussed at length earlier that Judas was a worldly man
but you wouldn't have it and now I bet you still won't concede Judas was a worldly man; an industrial savvy one too for that matter
even in the light of scriptures as this:

5"That perfume was worth a year's wages. It should have been sold and the money given to the poor."
Not that he cared for the poor
6he was a thief, and since he was in charge of the disciples' money, he often stole some for himself.
- John 12:5-6 NLT


Bro are you for real? Judas is not in the same league with Noah, Abraham or Israel (i.e. Jacob) you know
You either justify yourself by putting out scripture(s) that unequivocally backs up your statement(s)
(i.e. especially this statement about Judas:
...will be judged by grace through God's mercy and faithfulness to His word that says whosoever believe in Jesus shall not perish...)
or remain silent on this thread or subject matter about Judas please

God having foreknowledge does not mean Judas was predestined

"That is an aspect of God man cannot fathom or comprehend.
God made man to be self willed with his volition in his control
yet man never seize to arrive at the point where God had predestined him to be
"
- shdemidemi


When you start to apply "If ... Else statements" you will get to understand that God did not in advance determine Judas would betray Him.
and know
God, yes, was aware before it happened that Judas will betray Him,
but did nothing to stop it (i.e. this is why man never cease to arrive at the point where God has seen beforehand had predestined him to be)
God, as earlier discussed, is OMNI, Omni-know-everything-at-any-time-t.
He knows the end from the beginning.

This is not a play or script bro, where the actions of the actors or characters are determined in advance by the writer or author

Choice matters in the overall scheme of God's things,
and the actors or characters in God's special script including Judas, have this a special right

Have you been predestined to read this post?
Have a choice to decline or not, read this post?

As earlier discussed, God knew Adam and Eve will eat the fruit; the plan goes on
God knew Pharaoh will be stubborn; the plan goes on
God knew Mary will say yes; the plan goes on
God knew Caiaphas will set Him; the plan goes on
God knew Judas will betray Him; the plan goes on
God knew He'll hang on the Cross; the plan goes on
God knew etc etc etc; the plan goes on and we all live happily ever after

"Death was good for him at that time, if you ask me, I think it was the end of his mission on earth.
Being alive after betraying Jesus wouldn't be healthy for either him or the rest of the apostles.
It was the right time to leave the scene"
- shdemidemi


Death has a purpose, which is why it was on standby in Eden, even before Adam and Eve sinned.
- The soul that sinneth, it shall die
That was not the right death Judas died,
There we go again, self, all about "wouldn't be healthy" for self.
Self, self, self. It is not about self
The right time for Judas to leave is not when Judas decides, c'mon now, you know that much bro.

It was wrong and a wrong time, just because God obliged it, doesn't make it right or the right time

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJ Bible


Tell us, did Judas before he died, commit his spirit into the Father's
or did he before he died, pray that Lord Jesus receive his spirit (i.e. before or after Jesus died on the Cross)

I only came back in because I am seeing wool getting pulled over eyes here again
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 9:04pm On Jul 22, 2014
Are you a worldly man?^^^
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 9:26pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:
^^^
Are you a worldly man?

Worldly:
- existing on or relating to the earth
- of or concerned with material values or ordinary life rather than a spiritual existence.
- having a lot of practical experience and knowledge about life and the world
- of, relating to, or devoted to this world and its pursuits rather than to religion or spiritual affairs
- of or pertaining to this world as contrasted with heaven, spiritual life, etc
- devoted to or connected with the material or sensual pleasures of this world
"worldly-minded absorbed in or concerned with material things or matters that are immediately relevant"
"his ambitions for worldly success"
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 9:33pm On Jul 22, 2014
BabaGnoni:

Worldly:
- existing on or relating to the earth
- of or concerned with material values or ordinary life rather than a spiritual existence.
- having a lot of practical experience and knowledge about life and the world
- of, relating to, or devoted to this world and its pursuits rather than to religion or spiritual affairs
- of or pertaining to this world as contrasted with heaven, spiritual life, etc
- devoted to or connected with the material or sensual pleasures of this world
"worldly-minded absorbed in or concerned with material things or matters that are immediately relevant"
"his ambitions for worldly success"

Bro, are you a worldly man?
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by Nobody: 9:41pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Do you think judas' action caught God by surprise?

God cannot be surprised because he knows our future actions.

shdemidemi:
Was it God's doing that Joseph's brothers betrayed and sold him out?

No! The brothers of Joseph did wrong by selling Joseph and they wi;; be held accountable for their actions, except their repentance was true.

shdemidemi:
What then would you say about this-

Romans 9
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”[d] 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”[e]

God can decide to make the most out of a bad situation. He sees everyone's future and builds his plans (more or less) on this knowledge without influencing the actions of the 'principal actors'.

God knew what would happen to Joseph. He knew he would bless him even with that seeming misfortune. Knowing what would happen to someone and using same as an avenue to bless the individual is different from forcing people to do wrong in order to achieve your purpose.


shdemidemi:
If you were judged based on your actions, will you escape God's wrath?

If our actions are not scrutinized after our time here on Earth then there will be nothing like judgement and doing good would make no meaning. Belief for Jesus is about doing what is right. Our good works has no meaning unless it is sanctified by Jesus but this does not mean we are exempt from doing good.

shdemidemi:
Where did you find that definition of "believe" ? I hope that isn't the definition made up from assumptions.

To believe in Jesus is to have faith in him. Scriptures made us understand that faith without good works is dead; and Christ made it clear that to love him is to keep his commandments and those who keep his commands will be loved by his Father. It's not about believing in Jesus without doing good.

shdemidemi:
Who defines how grave a sin is?

God does and he did not mince words when he said we should not kill. That includes killing ourselves too.


shdemidemi:
How is suicide different from other sins Christians commit even in their walk with God?

Scriptures made us understand that though all wrong doing is sin but not every sin leads to death. Some sins are indeed graver than others. Suicide is a graver sin than stealing meat from your mum's pot.

shdemidemi:
Is suicide one of the sins beyond God's forgiveness?

Nope! The only sin that is beyond forgiveness is the one we that leads to death for which we did not repent from before our death. The sin against the Holy spirit fits in there.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 10:00pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Bro, are you a worldly man?

I read you the first time, so no need repeating yourself bro
The thread is not about me
so stick to it, stick with the post(s), stick with Judas and respond without getting the hump with me
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 10:16pm On Jul 22, 2014
striktlymi:

God cannot be surprised because he knows our future actions.

Thank you.. We both agree He has no plan B, He has one plan from the beginning to the end.

In other words, God had known judas would mess up right from the foundation of the world and He also knew how it will seal His plan for redemption.

striktlymi:
No! The brothers of Joseph did wrong by selling Joseph and they wi;; be held accountable for their actions, except their repentance was true..

The Old Testament reflects the new. The case of Joseph's brothers was not a case of judgement to heaven or hell but a story we can learn from as Christians.

When Joseph saw his brothers, they thought the man was about to condemn them but he brought them to himself in forgiveness. That was grace brought to the spot light even in the old.


striktlymi:
God can decide to make the most out of a bad situation. He sees everyone's future and builds his plans (more or less) on this knowledge without influencing the actions of the 'principal actors'.

I agree
striktlymi:
God knew what would happen to Joseph. He knew he would bless him even with that seeming misfortune. Knowing what would happen to someone and using same as an avenue to bless the individual is different from forcing people to do wrong in order to achieve your purpose.

Was pharaoh forced to do wrong, for God to achieve His purpose?


striktlymi:

If our actions are not scrutinized after our time here on Earth then there will be nothing like judgement and doing good would make no meaning. Belief for Jesus is about doing what is right. Our good works has no meaning unless it is sanctified by Jesus but this does not mean we are exempt from doing good..

The question was if you were to be judged by your actions, will you escape God's wrath?


striktlymi:
To believe in Jesus is to have faith in him. Scriptures made us understand that faith without good works is dead; and Christ made it clear that to love him is to keep his commandments and those who keep his commands will be loved by his Father. It's not about believing in Jesus without doing good..

But, the same bible says

Romans 11

And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace.

The bible does not contradict itself, so don't think it did. I am opened to questions on this though.


striktlymi:

God does and he did not mince words when he said we should not kill. That includes killing ourselves too.

But, the same law talks about the sabbath day and clothe textures we can wear- do you just put that part of the law as less important?


striktlymi:

Scriptures made us understand that though all wrong doing is sin but not every sin leads to death. Some sins are indeed graver than others. Suicide is a graver sin than stealing meat from your mum's pot.

The book says the wages of sin is death-

Where did you get graver and less graver from?

striktlymi:

Nope! The only sin that is beyond forgiveness is the one we that leads to death for which we did not repent from before our death. The sin against the Holy spirit fits in there .

You and I know you mumbled this together...

If you like to know what it means to sin against the Holy Spirit I can help, but it's got nothing to do with sin that leads to physical death.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 10:19pm On Jul 22, 2014
BabaGnoni:

I read you the first time, so no need repeating yourself bro
The thread is not about me
so stick to it, stick with the post(s), stick with Judas and respond without getting the hump with me

The question is quite pertinent to the topic actually....

If we call judas worldly, are we different or better than judas?

If you think we are, please explain how.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 10:35pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

The question is quite pertinent to the topic actually....

If we call judas worldly, are we different or better than judas?

If you think we are, please explain how.

Whether we are, is neither here or there
- It is not about us, the discussion is about but it is about Judas
If I didn't know you bro, I'll say what you posted up there is very unsportsmanlike
because, you and I know, that when Judas was lampooned with the "worldly" tag, it was, in reference to 1 Timothy 6:10
but you won't resign to or acknowledge that,
preferring rather to continually shift away from that fact and truth that Judas love of money led him to or made him wander away from the faith
and caused him great grief to the extent of topping himself (i.e. kill himself)

For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
- 1 Timothy 6:10 NIV
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 10:43pm On Jul 22, 2014
BabaGnoni:

Whether we are, is neither here or there
- It is not about us, the discussion is about but it is about Judas
If I didn't know you bro, I'll say what you posted up there is very unsportsmanlike
because, you and I know, that when Judas was lampooned with the "worldly" tag, it was, in reference to 1 Timothy 6:10
but you wont acknowledge that, preferring to continually shift away from that fact and truth

Bro, why separate judas from the rest of mankind like he is a scapegoat...

He is an offspring of Adam and Eve like you and I.. Whatever punishment judas gets for his sins should be equally handed to you and I for we are sinners too.. Or are we not?
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 10:46pm On Jul 22, 2014
BabaGnoni:
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
- 1 Timothy 6:10 NIV

Does this say or mean any Christian who is eager for money or wander from the faith are heading to hell?
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 11:06pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Does this say or mean any Christian who is eager for money or wander from the faith are heading to hell?

You're putting cart before horse bro.
Am I missing something about this thread?
Has it now changed from villainy to hell?
- go back two posts above this and re-read it bro
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 11:15pm On Jul 22, 2014
^^
How have I put the cart before the horse?

You are the one who refuse to answer simple questions, for the sake of avoiding a snare, I guess. Well, no one in Christ can be separated from Him. He did not die for us because we are good people, He died for us even when we were wicked and evil.

Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself.... Meaning he won't suffer a second death. Thanks
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 11:28pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi: ^^
How have I put the cart before the horse?

You are the one who refuse to answer simple questions, for the sake of avoiding a snare, I guess.
Well, no one in Christ can be separated from Him. He did not die for us because we are good people, He died for us even when we were wicked and evil.

Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself....
Meaning he won't suffer a second death. Thanks

Before you reconstructed it, I had previously answered you so no point in repeating myself
- Remember "Of course, don't we all, which is why Hebrews 4:16 is handy"

22On that day many will say to Me, Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'
23Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
- Matthew 7:22-23


Nobi today, yansh dey back
"Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself...." indeed

The only way he won't suffer a second death is if he was born of above
as you've just read in Matthew 7:22-23 above
prophesying in Jesus' name, driving out demons in Jesus' name, and doing many miracles in Jesus' name is not a guarantee. Thanks.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 11:39pm On Jul 22, 2014
BabaGnoni:

22On that day many will say to Me, Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'
23Then I will announce to them, I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
- Matthew 7:22-23


Nobi today, yansh dey back
"Judas was certainly in Christ, He preached Christ and he was promised eternal life by the master Himself...." indeed

The only way he won't suffer a second death is if he was born of above
as you've just read in Matthew 7:22-23 above
prophesying in Jesus' name, driving out demons in Jesus' name, and doing many miracles in Jesus' name is not a guarantee. Thanks.

Prophesying in Jesus name does not mean you are in Christ or saved. Jesus will never deny a Christian whose belief stems from a conviction and a persuasion for the heart.

Many walk around with head knowledge of Christ without a regenerated spirit, they claim to use the name of Jesus but they will be denied.

Judas was not in that category, he was not only a disciple but a special disciple called into salvation by God Himself.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 11:58pm On Jul 22, 2014
shdemidemi:

Prophesying in Jesus name does not mean you are in Christ or saved. Jesus will never deny a Christian whose belief stems from a conviction and a persuasion for the heart.

Many walk around with head knowledge of Christ without a regenerated spirit, they claim to use the name of Jesus but they will be denied.

Judas was not in that category, he was not only a disciple but a special disciple called into salvation by God Himself.

Yeah I know and the special is the blue bit bro, in this below verse:
For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.

It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT


Fine, if you're now prepared to talk of regenerated spirit (i.e. as you selectively ignored something about it earlier when I hinted on it)

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJ Bible


Tell us then, did Judas before he died, commit his spirit into the Father's
or did he before he died, pray that Lord Jesus receive his spirit (i.e. before or after Jesus died on the Cross)
Please, as your response will be important, don't rush to answer back
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 12:09am On Jul 23, 2014
BabaGnoni:

Yeah I know and the special is the blue bit bro, in this below verse:
For the Son of Man must die, as the Scriptures declared long ago.
But how terrible it will be for the one who betrays him.

It would be far better for that man if he had never been born!"
- Mark 14:21 NLT

How did that equate to eternal and spiritual condemnation?
BabaGnoni:
Fine, if you're now prepared to talk of regenerated spirit (i.e. as you selectively ignored something about it earlier when I hinted on it)

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
- Ecclesiastes 12:7 KJ Bible


Tell us then, did Judas before he died, commit his spirit into the Father's
or did he before he died, pray that Lord Jesus receive his spirit (i.e. before or after Jesus died on the Cross)
Please, as your response will be important, don't rush to answer back

If I die today, whichever way I die does not change the fact that God gave me a gift of salvation that cannot be revoked or gained by whatever I say or do.

Judas was sealed in to Christ, the very moment he was called by God to be a disciple.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 12:24am On Jul 23, 2014
shdemidemi:

How did that equate to eternal and spiritual condemnation?


If I die today,
whichever way I die does not change the fact that God gave me a gift of salvation that cannot be revoked or gained by whatever I say or do.

Judas was sealed in to Christ, the very moment he was called by God to be a disciple.

From hell, we are now hopping to eternal and spiritual condemnation, aren't we now?
I thought the thread was about Judas and villainy
You're grasping at straws bro the way you're skirting all over the place.

Of course, in most cases, the gifts can't be revoked once dished out
yet it doesn't stop people from dumping it in a trash bin after taking or receiving the gift
It is not about shdemidemi, shdemidemi is not black and white in the bible, Judas is
and so for the benefits of people like you and I, the bible would have written if Judas said or did so, like Jesus and Stephen did
- It is crucial, after all "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting etc etc"

I wonder what Peter found wicked in what Judas did.
Bro, I will adjure you to go and read about someone called Matthias
also read what Peter said about the circumstances that surrounded and led to appointing Matthias.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 10:00am On Jul 23, 2014
BabaGnoni:

Of course, in most cases, the gifts can't be revoked once dished out
yet it doesn't stop people from dumping it in a trash bin after taking or receiving the gift
Dump it where?

Its God's gift and God said in His word that His gift is without repentance. There is a way to get God's gift but no way to return or dump the gift bro. God did not give the gift because I am good, so why will He take it when I remain un-good?

The bible says God's goodness is what leads us to repentance and not our repentance leads to God's goodness. If anyone understand the gift of salvation like they should, such person is bound to be humbled to serve and obey God in every area of their life.

BabaGnoni:
It is not about shdemidemi, shdemidemi is not black and white in the bible, Judas is
and so for the benefits of people like you and I, the bible would have written if Judas said or did so, like Jesus and Stephen did
- It is crucial, after all "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting etc etc"

So in retrospect, if Jesus and Stephen didn't commit their spirit, God wouldn't keep that which had been entrusted to him from the day they became part of Him?
BabaGnoni:
I wonder what Peter found wicked in what Judas did.
Bro, I will adjure you to go and read about someone called Matthias
also read what Peter said about the circumstances that surrounded and led to appointing Matthias.

Peter was a man, he erred too. After picking Matthias, what else did you hear about Matthias in scripture. Peter had no clue of what God was doing either. He had to be forced, pushed by God to do some things he should have done even before Paul was appointed to do it. Was Peter's opinion God's verdict on judas' life? Never.

God had to raise Apostle Paul to explain grace to us and how merciful and loving God is to mankind. The more we heard of Paul in this book of Acts, the less we hear of Peter.

I will rather not go into Paul and Peter issue, but the substance in all of this is that God's gift is without repentance. He can't change is mind on that gift of salvation. Judas was part of Him and judas benefited from that grace of God like Noah and the young Israelites who got to the promise land did.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by BabaGnoni: 11:05am On Jul 23, 2014
shdemidemi:
Dump it where?

Its God's gift and God said in His word that His gift is without repentance. There is a way to get God's gift but no way to return or dump the gift bro. God did not give the gift because I am good, so why will He take it when I remain un-good?

The bible says God's goodness is what leads us to repentance and not our repentance leads to God's goodness.
If anyone understand the gift of salvation like they should, such person is bound to be humbled to serve and obey God in every area of their life.

So in retrospect, if Jesus and Stephen didn't commit their spirit, God wouldn't keep that which had been entrusted to him from the day they became part of Him?

Peter was a man, he erred too. After picking Matthias, what else did you hear about Matthias in scripture. Peter had no clue of what God was doing either. He had to be forced, pushed by God to do some things he should have done even before Paul was appointed to do it. Was Peter's opinion God's verdict on judas' life? Never.

God had to raise Apostle Paul to explain grace to us and how merciful and loving God is to mankind. The more we heard of Paul in this book of Acts, the less we hear of Peter.

I will rather not go into Paul and Peter issue, but the substance in all of this is that God's gift is without repentance.
He can't change is mind on that gift of salvation. Judas was part of Him and judas benefited from that grace of God like Noah and the yong Israelites who got to the promise land did.

"Dump it where?

Its God's gift and God said in His word that His gift is without repentance.
There is a way to get God's gift but no way to return or dump the gift bro.
God did not give the gift because I am good, so why will He take it when I remain un-good
?
" - shdemidemi

I don't know,
have you never taken or received a gift, only to dump somewhere,
maybe because you didn't appreciate it, maybe didn't like, maybe only took it to save face etc etc
Ah bro, dey sit down there, Samson King Saul etc can or will tell how gifts get returned trashed or dumped

God like every other is asking for or taking the gift back. Who said this? You or me?

"The bible says God's goodness is what leads us to repentance and not our repentance leads to God's goodness.
If anyone understand the gift of salvation like they should, such person is bound to be humbled to serve and obey God in every area of their life.

So in retrospect, if Jesus and Stephen didn't commit their spirit,
God wouldn't keep that which had been entrusted to him from the day they became part of Him?
" - shdemidemi

As we earlier discussed, for the benefits of people like you and I, the bible would have written if Judas repented or sought forgiveness
- this information is crucial, after all "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting etc etc"

You seriously need to adhere to the scope of this thread (i.e. Is Judas really a villain?)
Is there a shade of difference between remorse with no emotion and weeping bitterly showing emotions

"Peter was a man, he erred too. After picking Matthias, what else did you hear about Matthias in scripture.
Peter had no clue of what God was doing either.
He had to be forced, pushed by God to do some things he should have done even before Paul was appointed to do it.
Was Peter's opinion God's verdict on judas' life? Never.
" - shdemidemi

Just trying to draw your attention to your "Jesus said the twelve disciples will be there to judge Israel ... Did He speak amiss?" statement
So, you see yourself now. Who's the 12th disciple going to be now? Matthias or Judas?

Never? Did you say never?
Oh no, Peter actually had an opinion, as he said "...which Judas left to go where he belongs"
This is why I earlier said, for the sake of the likes of you and I, where Judas belonged should have been made evident just as Stephen's was
Peter however is hinting where though

"God had to raise Apostle Paul to explain grace to us and how merciful and loving God is to mankind.
The more we heard of Paul in this book of Acts, the less we hear of Peter.

I will rather not go into Paul and Peter issue, but the substance in all of this is that God's gift is without repentance. He can't change is mind on that gift of salvation.
Judas was part of Him and judas benefited from that grace of God like Noah and the young Israelites who got to the promise land did
"
- shdemimdemi

You may brush off Peter with the wave of a hand anyhow you like bro
but please consider how much Jesus esteemed Peter, and especially so, in this verse:

18And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.
19I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will bed bound in heaven,
and whatever you loose on earth will bee loosed in heaven
.”
- Matthew 16:18-19 NIV


Everyone has their moment of great opportunity in life, it was Paul's turn on the stage. Don't sweat it bro.

Noah and the young Israelites are from two different dispensations that I will rather not go into, as it isn't within the scope of this thread.

God is not human, so He does not change His mind.
God doesn't change His mind on the gift of salvation
He so much loved the world He gave Himself up for it
but that don't mean one can't trample on this gift
One gives free Love, freely, one doesn't want forced love, forcibly against will, returned.
- I know you got the drift with that last sentence.
Re: Is Judas Iscariot Really A Villain? by shdemidemi(m): 11:47am On Jul 23, 2014
I am in no way deviating from the subject matter..all I am doing is to reveal God's attribute and how preceding issues was dealt with by God.

If I dump God's grace, does that make God change His mind over His gift?

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