Why will the "Supreme" God who already knows everything, set aside a "judgement day"?
Would there be room for an appeal?

"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

Because of the Evil and insensible suffering going on in the world, people have this undying hope in a most perfect justice system where all the wrongs done to them is avenged, especially when they are too weak to avenge such wrongs.

I've always wondered about the technical details of this day. they say wait till judgment day, yet they also say they saw Mr x in heaven/hell visions. so which is it, are they seeing the future, alluding to gods omniscience and the mass of illogic that entails or has judgment day already taken place, just on another dimension/plane? (actually this would still introduce omniscience, free will etc problems, as it would mean the future is set and god already knows it....)

or are you guys saying when you have these visions, that you are viewing one of potential futures? even that still introduces silly problems, but I won't dwell on those just yet for a variety of reasons. mainly; it would be a waste of time on people bent on throwing logic through a window

this your stone age story book writers and current day visionaries should have/should think things through. in today's world their stories would make for very poor fantasy/sci fi. plot holes and contradictions everywhere you look.....

emmyskies: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

Yeah, in line with the OP.
Whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall also reap.

Actually, there seems to be no sowing done by us here. God already knows that i'm doomed to hell, god is the sower. It is just like a pre-programmed algorithmic system. And inadvertently for us, god is supreme, His word is final.

The logical thing to do is, "send to hell those who are meant for hell" and "teleport to heaven those who are meant for heaven". No need for judgement. Or is god not supreme again? is He anticipating objections?

qstar:

Yeah, in line with the OP.
Whatsoever a man soweth, that he shall also reap.

Actually, there seems to be no sowing done by us here. God already knows that i'm doomed to hell, god is the sower. It is just like a pre-programmed algorithmic system. And inadvertently for us, god is supreme, His word is final.

The logical thing to do is, "send to hell those who are meant for hell" and "teleport to heaven those who are meant for heaven". No need for judgement. Or is god not supreme again? is He anticipating objections?

Because God, despite His greatness and might, is still fair and just.

He never does things arbitrarily. God will prove to you why you deserve the reward He is giving you or why you deserve the sentence He is giving you. That is because He is just and follows due procedure.

People expect God to just wipe away from existence anything that does not dance to His tune because they see Him as an impatient and bad-tempered ruler who is hard to please. If that were so the Devil and his angels would be rotting in the Lake of fire by now and there would be no sinner or evil person on earth.

God does not think or reason or act like you do because your great wisdom is foolishness to Him.

God, in His fairness, has set side a day of judgment. He will not stop you from making any defense for yourself but O man you are inexcusable. It doesn't matter if He knew you'd go to hell or heaven. His fairness dictates that all appear before Him and be legally awarded their reward or sentence.

The problem is many have refused to understand the just nature of God that is why they accuse Him of many atrocities; in this case it is why the op expects God to set the judgment aside as unnecessary so as to punish or reward those who are destined for either. If God did that would He still be known as a righteous and just Judge?

One more reason not to take the bible too seriously.
Those that started this BELIEF SYSTEM have since abandoned it, realising its mortality.

emmyskies: "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." (Galatians 6:7)

You have said nothing. why not answer the simple question?

torchwave: If God did that would He still be known as a righteous and just Judge?

Ofcourse, he's just and righteous, like the way he hardened Pharoah's heart and punished him for having a hardened heart.

He(god) could still do the same to unbelievers. Just execute the eternal punishment right away, why waste time?

qstar:

Ofcourse, he's just and righteous, like the way he hardened Pharoah's heart and punished him for having a hardened heart.

He(god) could still do the same to unbelievers. Just execute the eternal punishment, why waste time?

Like the way He hardened Pharaoh's heart so that He would display His mercy, greatness and ability to save towards the children of Israel who had been in slavery and bondage more than 400 years in Egypt, and to the world in general. Yep, that is like God, just and merciful Saviour.

He will not execute His judgment arbitrarily because He has a set time for everything in heaven and on earth. Everything He does is done at the fullness of time. There is a time to be born and a time to die, a time to sow and a time to reap, a time to weep and a time to laugh, a time to toil and a time to rest, a time of mercy and a time of judgment. He is a God of order. Everything happens at its own time, at God's set time. The devil knows that just as he knows his time is short. He knows his time to be bound in the bottomless pit for a thousansd years and be eventually thrown into the Lake of fire is approaching.

I serve a God of order, not randomness.

Moreover, God is not slack concerning His promises as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

^^

You are right. The pharaoh's free will did not matter. Whose else matters?! Don't you think you are too much in the business of making excuses?

torchwave:
Moreover, God is not slack concerning His promises as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9).

What's the essence of repentance when God already knows my eternal destination?

but he created the unbelievers...was it their fault they were born to non xtian parents?

qstar:

Ofcourse, he's just and righteous, like the way he hardened Pharoah's heart and punished him for having a hardened heart.

He(god) could still do the same to unbelievers. Just execute the eternal punishment right away, why waste time?

Kay17: ^^

You are right. The pharaoh's free will did not matter. Whose else matters?! Don't you think you are too much in the business of making excuses?

One thing is clear from that story - it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of God.

He created Pharaoh for the purpose of showing His greatness and ability to save. However, that does not nullify his freewill. If that was the case then God would have used Pharaoh's freewill to set the Israelites free without having to bother Moses.

Besides, who are you, O man, to talk back at God? Will the thing created ask its Creator why did you make me so? If you have the right to make one thing short or tall, why should you question God who made you for His pleasure?

Nevertheless, God would be unjust to monopolize the freewill of a person and still punish him for refusing him just as people ignorantly believe Judas had no freewill since he was destined to betray Jesus.

In the case of the both of them, they had already made their choice, and God sealed their choice to show the world that He is God and nothing, no king or emperor, nobody great or small can thwart His plan. That is what God proved in their case.

Moreover, His plans and purposes are intended for the welfare and good of His children. He will show His greatness when it comes to saving His people.

Read the Bible for yourself before categorizing my posts as silly excuses which ironically amounts to anything you tell God in judgment for refusing to accept Jesus into your life.

qstar:

What's the essence of repentance when God already knows my eternal destination?

It is like asking why God should bring those who will make heaven into the world since they are destined to make heaven. Why not create them in heaven rather than bring them into the world to suffer?

Equal opportunity and risk.

He is a just God. He is impartial. If He brought the righteous into the world He will also bring the wicked or sinner.

However, God gives both equal opportunity to accept Him and the same warning of punishment if they refuse and die in their sins.

Choice separates the righteous from the sinner and the fairness of God makes the both of us come into existence.

torchwave: Because God, despite His greatness and might, is still fair and just.

He never does things arbitrarily. God will prove to you why you deserve the reward He is giving you or why you deserve the sentence He is giving you. That is because He is just and follows due procedure.

People expect God to just wipe away from existence anything that does not dance to His tune because they see Him as an impatient and bad-tempered ruler who is hard to please. If that were so the Devil and his angels would be rotting in the Lake of fire by now and there would be no sinner or evil person on earth.

God does not think or reason or act like you do because your great wisdom is foolishness to Him.

God, in His fairness, has set side a day of judgment. He will not stop you from making any defense for yourself but O man you are inexcusable. It doesn't matter if He knew you'd go to hell or heaven. His fairness dictates that all appear before Him and be legally awarded their reward or sentence.

The problem is many have refused to understand the just nature of God that is why they accuse Him of many atrocities; in this case it is why the op expects God to set the judgment aside as unnecessary so as to punish or reward those who are destined for either. If God did that would He still be known as a righteous and just Judge?

Before you go further in your delusion,prove the existence of your God!

qstar:

What's the essence of repentance when God already knows my eternal destination?

You have a point.

If God is supreme and already knows everything, then a judgement day would be highly superfluous, otiose, effete and a voluminous charade!

torchwave:
Choice separates the righteous from the sinner and the fairness of God makes the both of us come into existence.

Oh, so God is really not omniscient if He doesn't know my eternal destination.

That is selective ignorance.

Most gods act just like humans who have been given too much power. Coincidence? I think not.

torchwave: One thing is clear from that story - it is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of God.

He created Pharaoh for the purpose of showing His greatness and ability to save. However, that does not nullify his freewill. If that was the case then God would have used Pharaoh's freewill to set the Israelites free without having to bother Moses.

Besides, who are you, O man, to talk back at God? Will the thing created ask its Creator why did you make me so? If you have the right to make one thing short or tall, why should you question God who made you for His pleasure?

Nevertheless, God would be unjust to monopolize the freewill of a person and still punish him for refusing him just as people ignorantly believe Judas had no freewill since he was destined to betray Jesus.

In the case of the both of them, they had already made their choice, and God sealed their choice to show the world that He is God and nothing, no king or emperor, nobody great or small can thwart His plan. That is what God proved in their case.

Moreover, His plans and purposes are intended for the welfare and good of His children. He will show His greatness when it comes to saving His people.

Read the Bible for yourself before categorizing my posts as silly excuses which ironically amounts to anything you tell God in judgment for refusing to accept Jesus into your life.

But there wouldn't be the need to harden the pharaoh's heart if he was bent on setting the Israelis free, right? So it turns your argument on its head. In your own dispensation, God sees you as a mere pawn (most likely worthless) and you accept such a malign purpose for your life that impacts on whatever free choice you supposedly have.

The truth is, the Pharaoh had no choice, no freewill and punished unfairly. It proves God is unjust. But thankfully there is no God, so it is Christianity that is unjust.

torchwave: It is like asking why God should bring those who will make heaven into the world since they are destined to make heaven. Why not create them in heaven rather than bring them into the world to suffer?

Equal opportunity and risk.

He is a just God. He is impartial. If He brought the righteous into the world He will also bring the wicked or sinner.

However, God gives both equal opportunity to accept Him and the same warning of punishment if they refuse and die in their sins.

Choice separates the righteous from the sinner and the fairness of God makes the both of us come into existence.

How can a man be righteous before coming into existence? Can a man even be anything at all when he does not exist? Why am I referring to something that does not exist as 'he' or 'something'? I think you jumped the gun here, and further butressed the OP's point in the process, since if a man is made a certain way, it can't be his fault for acting that way.

Also, if the goal is righteousness, then somebody that is born righteous has an advantage over a born sinner, right? Infact, you can say the game has been rigged in his favour. Is that what fairness is to you? Equal opportunity but to accept God but not equal ability to?

ifeness: Before you go further in your delusion,prove the existence of your God!

God's existence cannot be generally proved through any human sense of perception. God is not an idol of wood or clay; neither is He a scientific phenomenon that you set out to experiment.

However, He has made Himself known through His creation, His Word, His servants the prophets and apostles, His acts, His miracles, through signs and wonders, His Son Jesus Christ, those who clinically died and resurrected and testified that God exists, little children who have never even heard about the Bible but accurately describe the throne of God, the wounds on the hands and feet of Jesus as well as the angels, people from all walks of life who have nothing to gain or lose by testifying to the existence of God who have had personal encounter with Him...

In essence, if you don't believe the testimony of creation and people who have heard and seen Him, not because God is their next door neighbour but because He is reaching the world through them, then that is your decision. Believe what you want.

At least, in judgment, you can never deny knowledge of any of the above.

qstar:

Oh, so God is really not omniscient if He doesn't know my eternal destination.

That is selective ignorance.

On the contrary, you misinterpreted my post and your conclusion does not tally with what I said.

If God brought those who, through their freedom of exercise of will, will make heaven into the world, He will also bring those who, through their freedom of exercise of will, will end up in hell because He is a just God. He does not bring one and leave the other.

They all have equal opportunity to know and accept God but He knows their ultimate destination because of the choice they make.

torchwave: God's existence cannot be generally proved through any human sense of perception. God is not an idol of wood or clay; neither is He a scientific phenomenon that you set out to experiment.

However, He has made Himself known through His creation, His Word, His servants the prophets and apostles, His acts, His miracles, through signs and wonders, His Son Jesus Christ, those who clinically died and resurrected and testified that God exists, little children who have never even heard about the Bible but accurately describe the throne of God, the wounds on the hands and feet of Jesus as well as the angels, people from all walks of life who have nothing to gain or lose by testifying to the existence of God who have had personal encounter with Him...

In essence, if you don't believe the testimony of creation and people who have heard and seen Him, not because God is their next door neighbour but because He is reaching the world through them, then that is your decision. Believe what you want.

At least, in judgment, you can never deny knowledge of any of the above.

Your comment showed your God is a male figure. He has a son and he is a male who probably has a white skin.

I do not believe the jewish creation story and i will not stand before anyone to be judged.

Kay17:

But there wouldn't be the need to harden the pharaoh's heart if he was bent on setting the Israelis free, right? So it turns your argument on its head.

Question, why did Pharaoh eventually let the Israelites go? Of course his heart was still hardened by God and he could have still refused even after the death of his child to show his actions had nothing to do with the exercise of freewill. Did God suddenly soften it? If God softened it then why did He harden it in the first place? At least it would have been easier to set the Israelites free by softening rather than hardening it. Again, whether He softened or hardened it, it suggests Pharaoh's freewill was not involved. Then why go through all the trouble?

In your own dispensation, God sees you as a mere pawn (most likely worthless) and you accept such a malign purpose for your life that impacts on whatever free choice you supposedly have.

Thank you. He is much better than the Devil who sees me, us, as mere meal to satisfy his insatiable appetite for destruction, and our blood as juice to slake his insatiable thirst for our sorrow and misery. Thank you but I'll go with God any day, any time.

The truth is, the Pharaoh had no choice, no freewill and punished unfairly. It proves God is unjust. But thankfully there is no God, so it is Christianity that is unjust.

You wish

To be honest torchwave,you described a man without knowing. When your god shagged mary,the baby came out as an Arab,which showed it must have looked liked his dad. And definitely your God is a man who spoke to prophets and priests.

The book of Genesis claimed "He walked in the garden and Adam heard his footsteps.....Your God tried to look for Adam(all knowing god?) Basically,he spoke with his mouth.hmmmmmm

You need to read the bible with your eyes opened bro!

finofaya:

How can a man be righteous before coming into existence? Can a man even be anything at all when he does not exist? Why am I referring to something that does not exist as 'he' or 'something'? I think you jumped the gun here, and further butressed the OP's point in the process, since if a man is made a certain way, it can't be his fault for acting that way.

A man cannot be righteous or sinful before coming into existence. It is only when he exists that he chooses to be righteous or sinful. The bolded is error of thought. It supposes that one has been programmed to act a certain way so that the concept of freewill is redundant in the make-up of man. Then why are some programmed to go to heaven when they would have loved to go to hell and vice versa?

Also, if the goal is righteousness, then somebody that is born righteous has an advantage over a born sinner, right? Infact, you can say the game has been rigged in his favour. Is that what fairness is to you? Equal opportunity but to accept God but not equal ability to?

No one is born righteous, however, we all came through the body of sin therefore we are all sinners at birth. We have all sinned and come short of the glory of God. The decision to be righteous or continue in sin is a personal one. No game. God has no favourites (Romans 2:11 and Acts 10:24). It is just you and your choice.

@torchwave you don run commot?

ifeness: To be honest torchwave,you described a man without knowing. When your god shagged mary,the baby came out as an Arab,which showed it must have looked liked his dad. And definitely your God is a man who spoke to prophets and priests.

The book of Genesis claimed "He walked in the garden and Adam heard his footsteps.....Your God tried to look for Adam(all knowing god?) Basically,he spoke with his mouth.hmmmmmm

You need to read the bible with your eyes opened bro!

If you knew little about God and His Word, this here statement should not have made its way out of your thoughts.

Know this, when the sovereign God asks a question He is not seeking information.

ifeness: @torchwave you don run commot?

hahaha. I dey but I go comot eventually nah since here no be my papa house.

Ok tell me more please. As far as i know,the father of Jesus could have only been an Arab dude. Or can a Dog give birth to a Cow? Can a spirit have sex?