italo:

You seem to think Jesus is not God.



Are you a Christian or a Muslim?

You supposed to know it was in a context besides judging from what you are saying

italo:

It was God that 'invented' all sorts of mediators.

It was God that said to men: "whose sins you forgive is forgiven, and whose sins you retain are tretained."

That is man mediating, as 'invented' by God.

In the book of Revelation, John sees that "the twenty-four elders [the leaders of the people of God in heaven] fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints" (Rev. 5:. Thus the saints in heaven offer to God the prayers of the saints on earth.

Angels do the same thing: "[An] angel came and stood at the altar [in heaven] with a golden censer; and he was given much incense to mingle with the prayers of all the saints upon the golden altar before the throne; and the smoke of the incense rose with the prayers of the saints from the hand of the angel before God" (Rev. 8:3–4).

Jesus himself warned us not to offend small children, because their guardian angels have guaranteed intercessory access to the Father: "See that you do not despise one of these little ones; for I tell you that in heaven their angels always see the face of my Father who is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10).

Because he is the only God-man and the Mediator of the New Covenant, Jesus is the only mediator between man and God (1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for "[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects" (Jas. 5:16).

it seems God started the ball rolling!

.

alentyno:
That's the point Jesus is the greatest mediator btw God and man and yet 90% of our prayers are are offered thru other 'mediators' thereby neglecting the major mediator. Why?!

all mediation flow through Jesus, so what are you talking about?

Is God now in competition?
Is st joseph prays for me, won't it still be through Christ?


Na wa for u oh.

alentyno:
*smiles* really?
Please I want you to sincerely answer this:
Why do we catholics, yes you heard me right 'we'
Why are we so bent on inventing all manner of mediators (in the name of saints and the likes) btw us and God despite knowing Jesus christ is highest mediator we could ask of? Why?

hehehe,
italo already answered this one.

God himself invented the intercessors.

jnrbayano:

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

lol,

italo can be very funny.

alentyno:
Easy dude. Am a catholic (since birth and till date). Yes you heard me right. Am not against intercession but am against us giving 10% of our christianity to Jesus and the remaining 90% to cooked up dogmas
#peace

i can't find a single cooked up dogma in the catholic church, everything the catholic church believes is historic christian teaching and they all revolve around christ.

Ubenedictus:

i can't find a single cooked up dogma in the catholic church.

Are you serious?
1.Catholics engage in endless praise
of Mary. When a woman praised Jesus' mother to
his face, did Jesus commend encourage this
woman to continue praising Mary?
Answer: Luke 11:27-28
"While Jesus was saying these things, one of the
women in the crowd raised her voice and said to
Him, "Blessed is the womb that bore You and the
breasts at which You nursed." But He said, " On the
contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of
God and observe it."" Luke 11:27-28

2.The statutes?
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any
likeness of what is in heaven above or on the
earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You
shall not worship them or serve them." Exodus
20:4-5
They are many of them but I don't want us to argue till infinity

In summary Jesus said
"'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as
doctrines the precepts of men.' "Neglecting the
commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of
men." He was also saying to them, "You are
experts at setting aside the commandment of God
in order to keep your tradition." Mark 7:7-9

alentyno:
Who is the
queen here? It is the King's wife, his true and only wife; and
since the King is none other than the Messiah,
his Bride is the Holy Church, as the scriptures
declare ( Revelation 19:9; 21:9) See also
Ephesians 5:25.

The mother of the King was the Queen mother, not the wife.

The queen mother was the most influential personin the davidic kingdom. ..after the King.

King Solomon bowed before his mother.

Now try again!

Who is the Queen beside Jesus in Ps 45:9?

Another nonsense thread by the children of the dead-bones-worshiping Mr. Francis

italo:

So it is about what you claim the Holy Spirit revealed.

But when we too meditate on the other dogmas of the Church, we know through the help of the Holy Spirit that they are not ordinary.

Why then are you attacking us?

Are you the sole custodian of the Holy Spirit?

hahahahhaha, italo ur very funny. Na only am get Holy Spirit. Smh

italo:

The mother of the King was the Queen mother, not the wife.

The queen mother was the most influential personin the davidic kingdom. ..after the King.

King Solomon bowed before his mother.

Now try again!

Who is the Queen beside Jesus in Ps 45:9?

Brother mi dia is nothing to try.
In Good News Bible, Ps 45:10 addresses the queen as 'bride of the king' meaning she(the church) is the wife and not the mother of the king
#shalom

lacum: hahahahhaha, italo ur very funny. Na only am get Holy Spirit. Smh

No mind am....lol

alentyno:
Brother mi dia is nothing to try.
In Good News Bible, Ps 45:10 addresses the queen as 'bride of the king' meaning she(the church) is the wife and not the mother of the king
#shalom

So your good news bible sees the Church as queen of heaven then.

Idolatry!

This only shows your poor understanding of the scripture.

alentyno:
Are you serious?
1.Catholics engage in endless praise of Mary. When a woman praised Jesus' mother to
his face, did Jesus commend encourage this
woman to continue praising Mary?
Answer: Luke 11:27-28

he used to occassion to teach about the covenantal family of God. Mary is also in the number of those who "hears the word of God and keep it". She is doubly blessed for she did not only bear and concieve the redeemer luke 1:42 "blessed are you among women", she also heared the word of God, believed, kept it in her heart and it was fulfilled unto her, lk 1:45 "and blessed is she who believed that there would be a fulfilment of what was spoken to her from the Lord".

My dear, Jesus wasn't saying his mother was not blessed, because if he did he would be contradicting the word the holyspirit spoke through elizabeth, Jesus didn't say his mother shouldn't be called blessed because if he did he would be contradicting the word the holyspirit spoke through mary in lk 1:48c "henceforth all generations shall call me blessed".

What he did was use that opportunity to tell the world that those who heard the word and believed were also blessed.

To assert differently will be to contradict scripture

2.The statutes?
"You shall not make for yourself an idol, or any
likeness of what is in heaven above or on the
earth beneath or in the water under the earth. You
shall not worship them or serve them." Exodus
20:4-5
They are many of them but I don't want us to argue till infinity

idols are images that are adored, catholics don't make idols, what we have are religious art like those in ex 25:18-22, religious symbols as in num 21:4-9.


That commandment does not prohibit the making of all images, if you claim it does then you have made scriptures to contradict itself.

In summary Jesus said
"'But in vain do they worship Me, Teaching as
doctrines the precepts of men.' "Neglecting the
commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of
men." He was also saying to them, "You are
experts at setting aside the commandment of God
in order to keep your tradition." Mark 7:7-9

those sayings were unto the pharisees to not to those who have kept the historic christian teachings. The church didnt invent the practice of praising mary, it was prophesied in scripture in luk 1:48 and it continues from the 1st century of christianity untill this day. The church didn't invent the art of making images, God himself made a visible image of himself in the incarnation of Jesus, "he is the image of the invisible God" col 1:15, and God never condemned all and every image, if he did, there wouldn't be a image of the cherubim, and since the 1st cent of christianity there has continued to be images to this day.


We don't cook up dogmas, we don't invent stuff, that is the work of the new age churches...sacred art and the honoring has been a part of christainity, and if you were a good student either the bible or christian history you would have known this.


Have a nice day.

italo:

Yes, I do.

You're saying nonsense.

Falls from Mt Everest... Walahi you funny die...

Ubenedictus:

idols are images that are adored, catholics don't make idols, what we have are religious art like those in ex 25:18-22, religious symbols as in num 21:4-9.


That commandment does not prohibit the making of all images, if you claim it does then you have made scriptures to contradict itself.

those sayings were unto the pharisees to not to those who have kept the historic christian teachings. The church didnt invent the practice of praising mary, it was prophesied in scripture in luk 1:48 and it continues from the 1st century of christianity untill this day. The church didn't invent the art of making images, God himself made a visible image of himself in the incarnation of Jesus, "he is the image of the invisible God" col 1:15, and God never condemned all and every image, if he did, there wouldn't be a image of the cherubim, and since the 1st cent of christianity there has continued to be images to this day.


We don't cook up dogmas, we don't invent stuff, that is the work of the new age churches...sacred art and the honoring has been a part of christainity, and if you were a good student either the bible or christian history you would have known this.

*yawns* same old story

italo:

So your good news bible sees the Church as queen of heaven then.

Idolatry!

You just like dodging questions

alentyno:
*yawns* same old story

that unfortunately isn't a response.


It simply says "i have made up my mind, i don't care if you are telling the truth".


Have a nice day, may God bless you.

Ubenedictus:


that unfortunately isn't a response.


It simply says "i have made up my mind, i don't care if you are telling the truth".


Have a nice day, may God bless you.

Its not a question of sum1 making up his mind here. Its all about seeing sumtin1 white and not calling it black and most importantly WANTING TO HAVE A DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF ONES FAITH. Sometimes its good to express yourself instead of doubting in silence and also seeking to address some pressing issues of my faith
Thanks to you and italo even if I wasn't convinced, I learnt some few things along the line of our discourse. God bless.

alentyno:
Its not a question of sum1 making up his mind here. Its all about seeing sumtin1 white and not calling it black and most importantly WANTING TO HAVE A DEEP UNDERSTANDING OF ONES FAITH. Sometimes its good to express yourself instead of doubting in silence and also seeking to address some pressing issues of my faith
Thanks to you and italo even if I wasn't convinced, I learnt some few things along the line of our discourse. God bless.

i have no problem with someone seeking a better understanding, i have no problems with someone who has questions.

Unfortunately, you didn't exactly come as seeking a deeper understanding, instead you were making well defined statements like "90 percent cooked up dogma". Catholicism isn't new, nor her teaching, they are well articulated and well developed. If you wish a have i deeper understanding then i think you should study futher.

Peace.

Ubenedictus:


i have no problem with someone seeking a better understanding, i have no problems with someone who has questions.

Unfortunately, you didn't exactly come as seeking a deeper understanding, instead you were making well defined statements like "90 percent cooked up dogma". Catholicism isn't new, nor her teaching, they are well articulated and well developed. If you wish a have i deeper understanding then i think you should study futher.

Peace.

When someone is arrogant in ignorance, that's what you get bro. We keep praying....that they may see.