striktlymi: The Bible is by no means a Catholic book in the sense I presume you mean. I have heard so many call Sacred scriptures a document of the Church but this is grossly incorrect.

If we are to go buy your logic we can as well dissociate the Old testament from Catholicism and call it a Jewish book. But we do not do this primarily because Sacred scriptures is of God and belongs to ALL as a result.

Ubenedictus:

the old testament is actually first and foremost a jewish book, written mainly by jews with a jewish audience in mind.

The new testament is actually a christian book, particularly a catholic book, written by the founders of catholicism, compiled by catholic bishop as a means of guidiance for the catholic church. It was addressed to the church.

It truly is a Catholic book.


This not withstanding all may truly gain sure and true knowlegde from it for it contains the revelation of God.

striktlymi:

Nah!

The Bible (Old and New testaments) is God's gift to mankind. No section of humanity can lay claim to it.

Ubenedictus:

hehehe.


God's gift to mankind you say, i only agree to that insofar as the revelation of God contained therein has the power to transform all of mankind.

I disagree if you say it was necessary written and addressed and accepted by all and sundry, even the scriptures itself says it isn't subject to personal interpretation, the new testament is itself addressed not to the world but to the church.


The whole of humanity truly draws good thing from the scriptures, but it revelation is only meant for all not accepted by all. Only the sheep will hear the voice of the shepherp. Only the church will accept the fullness of it teaching.


In this sense it was truly written and addressed to the church.

striktlymi:

Acceptance of Sacred scriptures or the way people choose to interpret it does not really matter as regards who lay claim to it. The very essence of Sacred scriptures is God's word which took flesh in Christ.

Just as no single group or individual can claim 'ownership' of the Person of Christ, so too can they claim 'ownership' of Sacred scriptures. To claim 'ownership' of Sacred scriptures is tantamount to claiming 'ownership' of Christ.

The Gospel and by extension the whole of Sacred scriptures is meant for the entire world and not just the 'elect'. If it's audience was the 'elect' then it would make very little meaning for Christ to instruct his Apostles to go into the world to proclaim the Good News.

Going to the Gentiles to proclaim Christ would have been a facade. Recall that the Good News was meant first for the Jews then the world. So I strongly disagree with you when you implied that Sacred scriptures was written and addressed to the 'Church'.

Ubenedictus:


actually Jesus is a jew,

"they are Isrealites, and to them belong the sonship and the glory, the covenant, the giving of the law, the worship, and the promises, and to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race according to the flesh is the Christ, God who is over all blest forever amen" rm 9:4,5.

So yes, Jesus is a jew, he is from isreal and he is even sent first to the isrealites....and it given to the whole world for their salvation.

In the same vein the bible is a catholic book, written by the founders of catholicism, compiled by the church through the workin of God and addressed first and foremost to the church, from it riches the whole world continues to draw good things.

striktlymi:

Jesus and the Jews who existed first?

Ubenedictus:
this is just a big door to sematics.

striktlymi:

Jesus and the Jews who existed first?

Ubenedictus:
this is just a big door to sematics.

striktlymi:

On the contrary, that is your way of avoiding the question. The question is direct enough: Jesus, the Jews...who existed first?

Tombilly: Jesus existed before d Jews. He z d first born of all creation. He was present from d beginning. Diz z where d Trinitarian teaching comes in. "Let us create man in our own image and likeness".

Tombilly: Jesus existed before d Jews. He z d first born of all creation. He was present from d beginning. Diz z where d Trinitarian teaching comes in. "Let us create man in our own image and likeness".

alexleo:

Bro you have no point pls.

Ubenedictus:

then lets use te sematics.

The person named Jesus pre existed the jews, he even pre-existed human nature. And he did take on human nature which he pre existed, he did come from the jewish race, a race he pre-existed.


His preexistence doesn't make him less jewish, just as his preexistence doesn't make him less human.

How is that for avoiding the question?

striktlymi:
Precisely!
"Before Abraham was, I am" so says Jesus. The Word proceedeth directly from the Father and through him ALL things were made. A section of humanity cannot claim ownership of what owns us all.
Sacred scriptures is all about how man and everything that is in existence came to be, man's fall from grace, his journey through 'darkness' and how God brought man back to himself.
Sacred scriptures is not about how a section of humanity was made. It is not about how a section of humanity fell from grace. It is not about how a section of humanity journeyed through darkness and certainly not about how a section of humanity got redeemed.
Sacred scriptures is about the interrelationship between God and his creatures, particularly man. He did choose a section of humanity (the Jews) to serve as a point of contact towards reaching the whole of humanity but this does not imply that the section now owns him.

striktlymi:

Ubenedictus:

you are simply side stepping the point.

Christ is given to the whole world for a redeemer. True!
From the bible the whole world may learn salvation history, Amen!

That still doesn't stop Christ from coming from the jewish race.
That doesn't mean all the letters on the new t wasn't specifically addressed to the church.

It seem you wish to deny A so B is true.

A and B are bothe true.

The new testament is addressed to the church and contains the salvation history of mankind and Jesus did come as a jew and redeemed all humanity.


I really don't see why you are arguing A is wrong for B to be correct when A doesn't falsify B.



Now i really don't get the thrust of the argument.

SalC: Ummm for all I know, the question of Jesus and Jews who existed first can not have a yes or no answer without the context of the word "existence" clearly defined.

Does Jesus exist before the Jews? Yes!

Does the man Jesus exist before the Jews? No

Therefore Jesus pre-existed the Jews while the Jews pre-existed the man Jesus.
Again does any man knew Jesus before his human existence? No. So at the point in which we know Jesus was at the point of his Physical existence and at that point, He is a Jew.
Therefore one cannot give a yes or no answer here without falling into the error of a hasty conclusion.

In thesame line, I can say the Bible is a Catholic book yet the scriptures are not all Catholic books.

striktlymi:

Acceptance of Sacred scriptures or the way people choose to interpret it does not really matter as regards who lay claim to it. The very essence of Sacred scriptures is God's word which took flesh in Christ.

Just as no single group or individual can claim 'ownership' of the Person of Christ, so too can they claim 'ownership' of Sacred scriptures. To claim 'ownership' of Sacred scriptures is tantamount to claiming 'ownership' of Christ.

striktlymi:

Jesus and the Jews who existed first?

striktlymi:
Precisely!
"Before Abraham was, I am" so says Jesus. The Word proceedeth directly from the Father and through him ALL things were made. A section of humanity cannot claim ownership of what owns us all.
Sacred scriptures is all about how man and everything that is in existence came to be, man's fall from grace, his journey through 'darkness' and how God brought man back to himself.
Sacred scriptures is not about how a section of humanity was made. It is not about how a section of humanity fell from grace. It is not about how a section of humanity journeyed through darkness and certainly not about how a section of humanity got redeemed.
Sacred scriptures is about the interrelationship between God and his creatures, particularly man. He did choose a section of humanity (the Jews) to serve as a point of contact towards reaching the whole of humanity but this does not imply that the section now owns him.

PastorAIO:

The Bible is not Christ!!!

The Bible is not Christ!!!

The Bible is not Christ!!!

How many times did you heard me say that? I take God beg you.

PastorAIO:
The Bible and the Christians, who existed first.
Did Sacred scriptures pre-exist the human race? Was it there with God from the Beginning?

striktlymi:



Your chants are just like saying...

The Church is not Christ!!!

The Church is not Christ!!!

The Church is not Christ!!!

Of course the Bible will not be Christ if you see it as just another book...
It will not be Christ if you see it as a collection of papers with ink on them...
Just like the Church will not be Christ if we look at it as a mere building where Christians go to worship God.

Sacred scriptures go beyond just being a collection of books written by men through the inspiration of the Spirit. Sacred scriptures contains God's word which is both Alive and Active. God's word is the author of creation and yes, it is Jesus.

striktlymi: The Bible is by no means a Catholic book in the sense I presume you mean. I have heard so many call Sacred scriptures a document of the Church but this is grossly incorrect.

If we are to go buy your logic we can as well dissociate the Old testament from Catholicism and call it a Jewish book. But we do not do this primarily because Sacred scriptures is of God and belongs to ALL as a result.

Onyegecha:

This response shows a lot of fear for logical reasoning. Acknowledging the simple truth will not hurt anyone. The Bible is a catholic creation and the pope superintends over the entire church structure directly or indirectly. Have you considered that you celebrate Easter only when the pope says so? Do you know the origin of Christmas that Christendom embraces? Only the truth can set men free from shackles of the mind.

Onyegecha:



This response shows a lot of fear for logical reasoning. Acknowledging the simple truth will not hurt anyone. The Bible is a catholic creation and the pope superintends over the entire church structure directly or indirectly. Have you considered that you celebrate Easter only when the pope says so? Do you know the origin of Christmas that Christendom embraces? Only the truth can set men free from shackles of the mind.

Tombilly: The Bible Is A Catholic Book– Did you ever wonder how the Bible came into being? A little known, but easily documented fact is that the books of the Bible were compiled by the Catholic Church. For many years after Christ ascended into Heaven, there was debate about which scriptural writings were inspired by God. The canon of Scripture (the books of the Bible) was first formally decided at the Synod of Rome in 382. This decision was upheld at the Councils of Hippo (393) and Carthage (397). At these Catholic Church councils, the same 46 Old Testament and 27 New Testament books that appear in today’s Catholic Bibles were declared to be inspired by God. As a side note, approximately 1200 years after this decision was made, Martin Luther and the Protestant reformers removed 7 books from the Old Testament. As a result, most Protestant Bibles are still missing these 7 books.
So for those calling the catholic church satanic are completely wrong and ignorant, because if you are sensible you will ask or do research before you criticize. Thanks

wickyyolo:
The Bible is a Book teaching about the truth(messiah). Maybe it was compiled by catholic or so it doesn't matter beside as a protestant do you want to write your own bible ? You have everything in the bible and you still complaining.

striktlymi:

Sacred scriptures go beyond just being a collection of books written by men through the inspiration of the Spirit. Sacred scriptures contains God's word which is both Alive and Active. God's word is the author of creation and yes, it is Jesus.